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30 is the new 20: Green Bay Packers

Seriously. Why does every thread derail into a DW4 thread? There are way too many problems with this team before we even get to the QB. The inability to run the ball, and poor tackling, should be front & foremost. Yet, we wanna waste all this time discussing why DW didn't throw the ball to any TEs?
Because the fix to those others problems is to get better players. At this point most of these guys are as good as they will most likely get so this isn’t much to discuss. A new coach might can get them to “decent” level but I doubt much higher than that. We keep discussing Watson because not only is he the key piece in the team but the only player that might still improve enough to turn the team around and therefore the only part worth discussing. Not this year by any means and I doubt next year but in two or so years there might be some level of hope.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Because the fix to those others problems is to get better players. At this point most of these guys are as good as they will most likely get so this isn’t much to discuss. A new coach might can get them to “decent” level but I doubt much higher than that. We keep discussing Watson because not only is he the key piece in the team but the only player that might still improve enough to turn the team around and therefore the only part worth discussing. Not this year by any means and I doubt next year but in two or so years there might be some level of hope.
^^^^
This

And the fact he's going to have a voice in hiring the new HC.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Because the fix to those others problems is to get better players. At this point most of these guys are as good as they will most likely get so this isn’t much to discuss. A new coach might can get them to “decent” level but I doubt much higher than that. We keep discussing Watson because not only is he the key piece in the team but the only player that might still improve enough to turn the team around and therefore the only part worth discussing. Not this year by any means and I doubt next year but in two or so years there might be some level of hope.
We are talking about fundamentals like tackling. It is extremely concerning to me that this team can be so bad at fundamentals.

In regards to yards per carry, we were the 9th best team in the league at running the ball last season. This season, we're the 5th worst.

To me, these are bigger concerns. In regards to rushing, we only swapped one guy. Is David Johnson that much worse than Carlos Hyde?

In 2018, we were #2 in yards per attempt for an opponent. Less than 2 years later, we are worst in the league. How we got so bad so quickly is a HUGE concern.

To me, these are much bigger concerns than the QB play.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I find that quite strange though, watson always has a shot or two at his T.E. Was it part of the game plan that they weren't the first read?

I was just thinking back and didn't recall a single "target" of a TE for the entire game. I could be wrong .... I was asking if that was true.

Why that was ? I don't think that has anything to do with "scheme" or being the "first read" , there's too many times a QB goes beyond that first read .... and really no OC / play designer is going to cut off a hand ...

Maybe it was how GB defended ... I have only watched it once and the All22 won't be out for a few days so ... no idea really.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Seriously. Why does every thread derail into a DW4 thread? There are way too many problems with this team before we even get to the QB. The inability to run the ball, and poor tackling, should be front & foremost. Yet, we wanna waste all this time discussing why DW didn't throw the ball to any TEs?

On my part it was simply an observation ...

How often does a QB go an entire game without targeting a TE once ? I'm sure its occurred before , just not something that happens very often.
 
We are talking about fundamentals like tackling. It is extremely concerning to me that this team can be so bad at fundamentals.

In regards to yards per carry, we were the 9th best team in the league at running the ball last season. This season, we're the 5th worst.

To me, these are bigger concerns. In regards to rushing, we only swapped one guy. Is David Johnson that much worse than Carlos Hyde?

In 2018, we were #2 in yards per attempt for an opponent. Less than 2 years later, we are worst in the league. How we got so bad so quickly is a HUGE concern.

To me, these are much bigger concerns than the QB play.
Again those concerns are at this point an “easy” fix. We are about to replace pretty much the entire coaching staff and odds are many of the players so hopefully they bring in someone that can teach those fundamentals and even get players that don’t need to be taught that as much.

Frankly the past and present don’t matter because the team already made the biggest change it can, new HC and GM, and everything in the present is just temporary.

QB play is the future because it’s one of the very few things pretty much guaranteed to still be here in 1-2 years so it’s the only thing worth discussing.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
We are talking about fundamentals like tackling. It is extremely concerning to me that this team can be so bad at fundamentals.

In regards to yards per carry, we were the 9th best team in the league at running the ball last season. This season, we're the 5th worst.

To me, these are bigger concerns. In regards to rushing, we only swapped one guy. Is David Johnson that much worse than Carlos Hyde?

In 2018, we were #2 in yards per attempt for an opponent. Less than 2 years later, we are worst in the league. How we got so bad so quickly is a HUGE concern.

To me, these are much bigger concerns than the QB play.
Communication is off track again with this unit.
Chemistry is all jacked up and they are not playing together as a unit.

They are also playing weak, getting destroyed at the point of attack. Losing on their one on one battles. Seems like they are confused on who to block when the defense runs a stunt.

Maybe they’re thinking too much
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
We are talking about fundamentals like tackling. It is extremely concerning to me that this team can be so bad at fundamentals.

In regards to yards per carry, we were the 9th best team in the league at running the ball last season. This season, we're the 5th worst.

To me, these are bigger concerns. In regards to rushing, we only swapped one guy. Is David Johnson that much worse than Carlos Hyde?

In 2018, we were #2 in yards per attempt for an opponent. Less than 2 years later, we are worst in the league. How we got so bad so quickly is a HUGE concern.

To me, these are much bigger concerns than the QB play.
We really shouldn't be talking about fundamentals .... This is the NFL , not highschool or college. These dudes should know proper technique by now.

How many tackling drills did we do in Jr. high , highschool .... FFS.
 

CWTexansFan

King Deplorable
Contributor's Club
Exactly. The quietest, emptiest 300 yard 2 TD performance you'll ever see.

No doubt the Watson zealot's on here will boast about how the kid "balled out today", because hey.....look at the statline.

But once again, against a good defense, he couldn't so much as lead a single scoring drive when the actual outcome of the game was being determined (everyone but his fault though, i'm sure). Once GB had the game in hand, of course, here come the goalline TD passes that improve his personal stats but have no impact whatsoever on the outcome of the game.
Quoted for truth
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Since a picture might not capture your point.

Yes. He needs to do more of that.

I don’t know why he’s not running the ball. BO’b is gone & we’re still losing. We need him to open the game up.

If he’s worried about getting hurt, he needs to slide like that, or run out of bounds like he normally does.

The way he’s getting hit & sacked behind the line looks more dangerous than any hit he’s taken when he’s run this year.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Curious, if no TE was targeted four quarters is that not an indicator? I heard no comment here during game or from talking heads during broadcast or radio guys afterwards that Packers took our TE out of game. We seem to have Fells only.
It doesn’t help that they cut Jordan Thomas, who would have been taking Akins snaps now and keeping the 2TE sets an option instead of being left with just Fells.
 

Earl34

All Pro
On my part it was simply an observation ...

How often does a QB go an entire game without targeting a TE once ? I'm sure its occurred before , just not something that happens very often.
In 2014, with Fitzpatrick at QB, Alfred Blue had 15 receptions and Garret Graham led the TEs with 18 receptions
In 2015, with Hoyer at QB, Alfred Blue had 15 receptions and Ryan Griffin led the TEs with 20 receptions

So, I've seen it from this offense for multiple games and weeks where the TEs were not targeted. It might be one of the more consistent things about this inconsistent ED offense.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I was just thinking back and didn't recall a single "target" of a TE for the entire game. I could be wrong .... I was asking if that was true.

Why that was ? I don't think that has anything to do with "scheme" or being the "first read" , there's too many times a QB goes beyond that first read .... and really no OC / play designer is going to cut off a hand ...


Maybe it was how GB defended ... I have only watched it once and the All22 won't be out for a few days so ... no idea really.
It was indeed the case that there was not ''single 'target' of a TE for the entire game. This was especially very curious with the Packers LB corps so debilitated with injuries.
 
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Earl34

All Pro
It was indeed the case that there was not ''single 'taget' of a TE for the entire game. This was especially very curious with the Packers LB corps so debilitated with injuries.
With the injuries you mentioned, I also thought they would have attacked the LBs with the pass and running game.

As usual, the Texans outsmart everyone by not doing what you expect them to do.
 
In 2014, with Fitzpatrick at QB, Alfred Blue had 15 receptions and Garret Graham led the TEs with 18 receptions
In 2015, with Hoyer at QB, Alfred Blue had 15 receptions and Ryan Griffin led the TEs with 20 receptions

So, I've seen it from this offense for multiple games and weeks where the TEs were not targeted. It might be one of the more consistent things about this inconsistent ED offense.
Not seeing how those matter as

A: Those were 5 and 6 years ago and pretty much right after OB got here
B: Speaking of OB he's gone now so all the "this offense" talk should stop or at least change tone since this was suppose to be Watson and Kelly's offense now.
C: Both Fitzmagic and Hoyer aren't even close to Watson on his worst day so the only things they should have in common is that they all were/are Texan QBs.
D: Even though our TEs are nothing to write home about they are still better than Graham and miles ahead of Griffin.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
With the injuries you mentioned, I also thought they would have attacked the LBs with the pass and running game.

As usual, the Texans outsmart everyone by not doing what you expect them to do.
Well, the RBs were targeted 9 times, which is the highest for the season. It could have been the game plan to utilize the RBs in the passing game more to take advantage of the LBs?
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Yes. He needs to do more of that.

I don’t know why he’s not running the ball. BO’b is gone & we’re still losing. We need him to open the game up.

If he’s worried about getting hurt, he needs to slide like that, or run out of bounds like he normally does.

The way he’s getting hit & sacked behind the line looks more dangerous than any hit he’s taken when he’s run this year.
It would be hard bent to blame the coaches now for Watson a ''dual threat QB'' not running when the opportunity arises. His running has mostly consisted of running around in the backfield, even when there have been openings to push forward. Although it could be his algorithm decision-making, I'm not going to blame Watson for choosing not to run the ball. But it's time to stop putting the entire blame on the coaching staff for "not letting him run.'' When you already have a history of an LCL, 2 ACLs and empirically some resulting articular knee damage, you can't help but start thinking more about it and becoming hesitant as your career adds years. In the Packers game, he pulled up limping. When I reviewed the play, it was evident that he hyperextended his knee.........the exact same mechanism when severe enough is involved in the causation of an ACL rupture. Watson is human. Things like this can't help but give pause to any QB when making a decision to run or not.
 
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CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Yes. He needs to do more of that.

I don’t know why he’s not running the ball. BO’b is gone & we’re still losing. We need him to open the game up.

If he’s worried about getting hurt, he needs to slide like that, or run out of bounds like he normally does.

The way he’s getting hit & sacked behind the line looks more dangerous than any hit he’s taken when he’s run this year.
It would be hard bent to blame the coaches now for Watson a ''dual threat QB'' not running when the opportunity arises. His running has mostly consisted of running around in the backfield, even when there have been openings to push forward. Although it could be his algorithm decision-making, I'm not going to blame Watson for choosing not to run the ball. But it's time to stop putting the entire blame on the coaching staff for "not letting him run.'' When you already have a history of an MCL, 2 ACLs and empirically some resulting articular knee damage, you can't help but start thinking more about it and becoming hesitant as your career adds years. In the Packers game, he pulled up limping. When I reviewed the play, it was evident that he hyperextended his knee.........the exact same mechanism when severe enough is involved in the causation of an ACL rupture. Things like this can't help but give pause to any QB when making a decision to run or not.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
In the Packers game, he pulled up limping. When I reviewed the play, it was evident that he hyperextended his knee.........the exact same mechanism when severe enough is involved in the causation of an ACL rupture. Watson is human. Things like this can't help but give pause to any QB when making a decision to run or not.
Well this is exactly what I'm talking about. Some of the hits he takes in the backfield look way too dangerous for a guy with ACL/Ankle injury concerns. The way he contorts himself after contact can't be good. He'd be better off going upfield & sliding or going out of bounds. & it's not like I'm asking him to run for 30 every time. 1st & 10, 2nd & 7.... pick up a couple. That's all we're getting out of David Johnson.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Well this is exactly what I'm talking about. Some of the hits he takes in the backfield look way too dangerous for a guy with ACL/Ankle injury concerns. The way he contorts himself after contact can't be good. He'd be better off going upfield & sliding or going out of bounds. & it's not like I'm asking him to run for 30 every time. 1st & 10, 2nd & 7.... pick up a couple. That's all we're getting out of David Johnson.
Watson's risk of ankle injuries would probably be distributed pretty equally between backfield "activities" vs. running, zig zagging, getting tackled, even sliding.

On the other hand, it would seem to most people that taking hits in the backfield would expose him to a much more dangerous situation for incurring an ACL tear..............until you realize that 3/4 of all ACL tears are non contact injuries sustained while running, especially during acceleration.............even moreso during acceleration with acute change of direction.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Yeah, a great season if you like a 1-6 record and 2/3 of his production coming when the game is already out of reach. Simpletons rejoice over the empty stats he puts up each week.

He certainly is the best in the league at calling his own number and throwing TD passes from the 3 yard line or keeping it and running it in from the 1 while his team is getting it's brains beat in, i'll give him that. No wonder no running backs want to play here.
Are you actually trying to pass off this observation as something absolute? Watson can only produce numbers when EVERY game (win or lose) to date is out of control? If that's your stance.....please proceed to the back of the line.

Might be nice when the defense could hold a lead when given one to protect. Might be nice that the team possessed an OC that could scheme and make adjustments on the fly when a scheme has failed to avoid digging the team in a hole. Something every defense in the NFL loves.....playing the OB/Kelly led offenses when they are playing from behind. Why? The dumbarses refuse to make adjustments and their running game is no threat.....and what does that leave? A passing game that refuses to be creative with their TE's.

Like I've stated far too many times, the Texans have just flat out failed at building a team around the QB they drafted to be their Franchise leader....RS didn't do it, Gaines might've been better than perceived but was weak in FA, and OB who took himself down with the team when he finally got what he wanted.

Say what you want......Watson has done very good in a situation that almost no other NFL QB would've succeeded in.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
It doesn’t help that they cut Jordan Thomas, who would have been taking Akins snaps now and keeping the 2TE sets an option instead of being left with just Fells.
Another absolute duck-up by OB!!!!! That dumbarse cuts this TE who's been with the offense for 2 seasons and then goes out after cutting him and signs (2) PS TE's that have never been in his system....then grabs another one. I think Jordan just needed time to build his game after he missed most of his second season. Coming off his rookie season, I saw Jordan eventually becoming the TE1 on this team. Well, at least Jordan got hired right away and it should be a while before OB ever sniffs an NFL football field as a HC or OC.
 

DBCooper

Outlaw
Contributor's Club
Are you actually trying to pass off this observation as something absolute? Watson can only produce numbers when EVERY game (win or lose) to date is out of control? If that's your stance.....please proceed to the back of the line.

Might be nice when the defense could hold a lead when given one to protect. Might be nice that the team possessed an OC that could scheme and make adjustments on the fly when a scheme has failed to avoid digging the team in a hole. Something every defense in the NFL loves.....playing the OB/Kelly led offenses when they are playing from behind. Why? The dumbarses refuse to make adjustments and their running game is no threat.....and what does that leave? A passing game that refuses to be creative with their TE's.

Like I've stated far too many times, the Texans have just flat out failed at building a team around the QB they drafted to be their Franchise leader....RS didn't do it, Gaines might've been better than perceived but was weak in FA, and OB who took himself down with the team when he finally got what he wanted.

Say what you want......Watson has done very good in a situation that almost no other NFL QB would've succeeded in.
Imagine being coached and advised and drilled and given your Offensive philosophy from day 1 by Bill O’Brien.

And he’s still being coached from the Bill O’Brien coaching tree.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Imagine being coached and advised and drilled and given your Offensive philosophy from day 1 by Bill O’Brien.

And he’s still being coached from the Bill O’Brien coaching tree.
It would suck arse. I think players really love the City of Houston but down deep love it when they've been traded or cut and finally find themselves with better organizations.
 

Jadmakaveli

Veteran
Are you actually trying to pass off this observation as something absolute? Watson can only produce numbers when EVERY game (win or lose) to date is out of control? If that's your stance.....please proceed to the back of the line.

Might be nice when the defense could hold a lead when given one to protect. Might be nice that the team possessed an OC that could scheme and make adjustments on the fly when a scheme has failed to avoid digging the team in a hole. Something every defense in the NFL loves.....playing the OB/Kelly led offenses when they are playing from behind. Why? The dumbarses refuse to make adjustments and their running game is no threat.....and what does that leave? A passing game that refuses to be creative with their TE's.

Like I've stated far too many times, the Texans have just flat out failed at building a team around the QB they drafted to be their Franchise leader....RS didn't do it, Gaines might've been better than perceived but was weak in FA, and OB who took himself down with the team when he finally got what he wanted.

Say what you want......Watson has done very good in a situation that almost no other NFL QB would've succeeded in.
Hate for a man they don’t know even I’ll never understand just weird to me to act like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I was just thinking back and didn't recall a single "target" of a TE for the entire game. I could be wrong .... I was asking if that was true.

Why that was ? I don't think that has anything to do with "scheme" or being the "first read" , there's too many times a QB goes beyond that first read .... and really no OC / play designer is going to cut off a hand ...

Maybe it was how GB defended ... I have only watched it once and the All22 won't be out for a few days so ... no idea really.
I just rewatched the first half, and none of the TEs were in position to catch any pass.

With a man short (Akins), the two TEs combined for 72 snaps (68 snaps is 100%).
Often, the TE stayed to block, ran a decoy (not even looking at the ball), was covered by the D, or was just not the first read.
 

Earl34

All Pro
I just rewatched the first half, and none of the TEs were in position to catch any pass.

With a man short (Akins), the two TEs combined for 72 snaps (68 snaps is 100%).
Often, the TE stayed to block, ran a decoy (not even looking at the ball), was covered by the D, or was just not the first read.
610 played the press conference where McClain asked Crennel about the TEs. He said it was game plan and the WRs were getting open early in the play.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Are you actually trying to pass off this observation as something absolute? Watson can only produce numbers when EVERY game (win or lose) to date is out of control? If that's your stance.....please proceed to the back of the line.

Might be nice when the defense could hold a lead when given one to protect. Might be nice that the team possessed an OC that could scheme and make adjustments on the fly when a scheme has failed to avoid digging the team in a hole. Something every defense in the NFL loves.....playing the OB/Kelly led offenses when they are playing from behind. Why? The dumbarses refuse to make adjustments and their running game is no threat.....and what does that leave? A passing game that refuses to be creative with their TE's.

Like I've stated far too many times, the Texans have just flat out failed at building a team around the QB they drafted to be their Franchise leader....RS didn't do it, Gaines might've been better than perceived but was weak in FA, and OB who took himself down with the team when he finally got what he wanted.

Say what you want......Watson has done very good in a situation that almost no other NFL QB would've succeeded in.
We have a very different definition of the term (Very Good)

DW4's stats THIS YEAR are very hollow stats.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
610 played the press conference where McClain asked Crennel about the TEs. He said it was game plan and the WRs were getting open early in the play.
It seemed to me that they tried to get Cobb involved a lot more because of his ties to Green Bay. I mean, he hasn't had more than 6 targets in a game all year, and he gets 10 in this one. So you game plan around getting a WR3 going against his former team? This franchise is so damn whack it's unreal.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Hate for a man they don’t know even I’ll never understand just weird to me to act like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Valid observations are now stated as a representation of hate.

I doubt you even know he definition of the word hate. Or are just not very good at putting your thoughts into words. I'm not degrading you by saying this because I have some very good friends/great people that suffer from this very issue.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
In 2014, with Fitzpatrick at QB, Alfred Blue had 15 receptions and Garret Graham led the TEs with 18 receptions
In 2015, with Hoyer at QB, Alfred Blue had 15 receptions and Ryan Griffin led the TEs with 20 receptions

So, I've seen it from this offense for multiple games and weeks where the TEs were not targeted. It might be one of the more consistent things about this inconsistent ED offense.
Receptions and targets are two different statistics ....

Who suited up at TE yesterday - Fells and Pharaoh Brown ?

Akins is still in concussion protocol ...

I'm not making a big to do about it , just thought it was a statistical oddity.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Right from the coaches mouth. Wonder if Doc will walk back his comments. Guessing not...
What's to walk back ? Zero Targets ? .... There were zero targets.

What did you expect him to say ?

Did you expect the truth (whatever it was) or coach speak ?

The latter is what you got.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
It seemed to me that they tried to get Cobb involved a lot more because of his ties to Green Bay. I mean, he hasn't had more than 6 targets in a game all year, and he gets 10 in this one. So you game plan around getting a WR3 going against his former team? This franchise is so damn whack it's unreal.
Just like us, the Packers were a man short in the defensive backfield.
Probably why the Texans went with that game plan. Just my guess.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Receptions and targets are two different statistics ....

Who suited up at TE yesterday - Fells and Pharaoh Brown ?

Akins is still in concussion protocol ...

I'm not making a big to do about it , just thought it was a statistical oddity.
This is not the first time they didn’t target the Tight Ends. Some games a receiver might not get targeted. Shoots even Rodgers didn’t target all of his receivers. Their game plan was to go to Adams and that’s what they did.
Coach RAC said the TE wasn’t in the game plan and that the receivers were getting open.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
He made it seem as if Watson purposely didn’t target the Tight Ends.
He neither said nor alluded to Watson at all and neither did the post he quoted


It was indeed the case that there was not ''single 'target' of a TE for the entire game. This was especially very curious with the Packers LB corps so debilitated with injuries.
I was just thinking back and didn't recall a single "target" of a TE for the entire game. I could be wrong .... I was asking if that was true.

Why that was ? I don't think that has anything to do with "scheme" or being the "first read" , there's too many times a QB goes beyond that first read .... and really no OC / play designer is going to cut off a hand ...

Maybe it was how GB defended ... I have only watched it once and the All22 won't be out for a few days so ... no idea really.
I think you have Watson persecution on the brain
 

Jadmakaveli

Veteran
Valid observations are now stated as a representation of hate.

I doubt you even know he definition of the word hate. Or are just not very good at putting your thoughts into words. I'm not degrading you by saying this because I have some very good friends/great people that suffer from this very issue.
I’m very aware of the definition of hate. You and few others fall under that. Also delusional would describe the select few that includes you.
 


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