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30 is the new 20: Green Bay Packers

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I asked him point-blank and he confirmed. Look back and you will find it.
Give it up. The context was that it was not any specific game plan that excluded the TE ever from being a receiving option. Crennel knows better than to say that in response for why the TEs did not have a single target......TEs are not ever specifically excluded from a scheme. When they offer an outlet, they are there to be used. Why they weren't used is not a matter that they were barred by scheme from being a receiving option.
 

banned1976

All Pro
I don’t think it’s a huge deal - the why the TE’s weren’t targeted. Akins didn’t play. Fells is the only other reliable pass catching TE they have. Maybe there was something going on with him, don’t know.

For the record, I don’t believe anyone told Watson to avoid the TE’s. He was seeing the field from a perspective much different than the viewers at home.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
He made it seem as if Watson purposely didn’t target the Tight Ends.

I don't think he "purposely" didn't target the TE's ... It just played out that way.

But Romeo in the post game said "it was part of the gameplan" .... which insinuates the QB isn't prioritizing them. Purposely.

I'd rather have heard Romeo say .... "They want the ball they need to get open" instead of the coach speak crap he gave us.
 

Jadmakaveli

Veteran
Hate has nothing at all to do with being a good , great , average or bad football player.
Lol you say that yet actions show otherwise but nonetheless I won’t keep going back and forth with people who don’t know what they talking about. Wish you well my guy .
 

Decim8

Waterboy
I don’t think it’s a huge deal - the why the TE’s weren’t targeted. Akins didn’t play. Fells is the only other reliable pass catching TE they have. Maybe there was something going on with him, don’t know.

For the record, I don’t believe anyone told Watson to avoid the TE’s. He was seeing the field from a perspective much different than the viewers at home.
Exactly I dont see the big deal whether watson was targeting the T.E or not, heck sometimes stills or Cobbs don't get any looks at all too. Sometimes the game just plays out that way
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Lol you say that yet actions show otherwise but nonetheless I won’t keep going back and forth with people who don’t know what they talking about. Wish you well my guy .

What actions - Not a single person has questioned Watson's character or anything other than his ability as a football player.

Nothing else has been brought into the equation. Absolutely Nothing but Football.

That's what this forum is for and about - All things Football. Different people are going to have conflicting opinions and that is exactly what we have going on with the Watson debate - No one "Hates Watson" - Some simply think he's not as good a football player as others.

Everyone's free to express their opinion on that subject ...
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Give it up. The context was that it was not any specific game plan that excluded the TE ever from being a receiving option. Crennel knows better than to say that in response for why the TEs did not have a single target......TEs are not ever specifically excluded from a scheme. When they offer an outlet, they are there to be used. Why they weren't used is not a matter that they were barred by scheme from being a receiving option.
Of course they don’t say, hey Watson this week ignore your tight ends. But they definitely scheme in such a way that they are not legit threats. Especially when you are down to 1. Oh by the way Watson still had a nice game without using them.

It’s been a theme since OB and staff have been around. Running up the gut often and not using our athletic tight ends. That’s not a Watson thing.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
What are the odds that was at least a partial tear?
What are the odds that was at least a partial tear?
It's unlikely, since he did not appear to limp the remainder of the game. If it were a minor injury, the Texans would not want it to even show up on the Injury Report this Wednesday. But it will be interesting to see if he ends up on the Injury Report after the bye. I don't expect that unless he had significant injury to begin with or had an aggravation of an injury sustained last game.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Torturing myself by watching the All-22. On the first offensive series of the game, it was 3rd & 1. We initially show an empty backfield. DW sees 6 defenders in the box (5 db's), so he signals Duke to the backfield. The Texans have 6 blockers on the line. We just need one friggin' yard, this should be a gimme! So much fail in this play!
  • Duke has a BIG a$$ hole to his right, which he totally ignores. I mean, just from pre-snap, Duke should know there's going to be a lane between Tytus & Fells. What am I missing here?
  • Nick Martin gets pushed back way too deep. This is a common theme with Martin, so not surprising, which shouldn't be the case. This causes Zach (who was pulling), to get to his man much slower and too late.
  • Despite this, Duke still should have gotten the 1st if Brandin Cooks did at least an average job of blocking the corner.
So much fail in one play. Fans keep asking, why do we keep running the ball? It's because when the defense gives it to you, like in this case, you have to be able to take it.



duke.gif
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Torturing myself by watching the All-22. On the first offensive series of the game, it was 3rd & 1. We initially show an empty backfield. DW sees 6 defenders in the box (5 db's), so he signals Duke to the backfield. The Texans have 6 blockers on the line. We just need one friggin' yard, this should be a gimme! So much fail in this play!
  • Duke has a BIG a$$ hole to his right, which he totally ignores. I mean, just from pre-snap, Duke should know there's going to be a lane between Tytus & Fells. What am I missing here?
  • Nick Martin gets pushed back way too deep. This is a common theme with Martin, so not surprising, which shouldn't be the case. This causes Zach (who was pulling), to get to his man much slower and too late.
  • Despite this, Duke still should have gotten the 1st if Brandin Cooks did at least an average job of blocking the corner.
So much fail in one play. Fans keep asking, why do we keep running the ball? It's because when the defense gives it to you, like in this case, you have to be able to take it.



View attachment 6933

This is what I appreciate the most. You literally broke the entire play down as well as post the great All-22 footage of that particular play. You’re not focused on one individual or trying to place blame on just one player.


Top of the line stuff right here gents.



This just shows the lack of vision our RB’s have as well as not really having the feel for the game. This further exhibits the point of us not winning the battle in the trenches.
 
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Earl34

All Pro
Torturing myself by watching the All-22. On the first offensive series of the game, it was 3rd & 1. We initially show an empty backfield. DW sees 6 defenders in the box (5 db's), so he signals Duke to the backfield. The Texans have 6 blockers on the line. We just need one friggin' yard, this should be a gimme! So much fail in this play!
  • Duke has a BIG a$$ hole to his right, which he totally ignores. I mean, just from pre-snap, Duke should know there's going to be a lane between Tytus & Fells. What am I missing here?
  • Nick Martin gets pushed back way too deep. This is a common theme with Martin, so not surprising, which shouldn't be the case. This causes Zach (who was pulling), to get to his man much slower and too late.
  • Despite this, Duke still should have gotten the 1st if Brandin Cooks did at least an average job of blocking the corner.
So much fail in one play. Fans keep asking, why do we keep running the ball? It's because when the defense gives it to you, like in this case, you have to be able to take it.

View attachment 6933
I don't know where to start and have so many questions. It's one yard. How many of the OL have even driven their man one yard downfield? Why does the OL seem to get so little push? Even if this was a play action, look at Fells getting beat again.

Is it coaching or talent? Exactly what blocking scheme are they using on this play? Man or zone? Why do we have so many of these slow footed guards pulling?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Torturing myself by watching the All-22. On the first offensive series of the game, it was 3rd & 1. We initially show an empty backfield. DW sees 6 defenders in the box (5 db's), so he signals Duke to the backfield. The Texans have 6 blockers on the line. We just need one friggin' yard, this should be a gimme! So much fail in this play!
  • Duke has a BIG a$$ hole to his right, which he totally ignores. I mean, just from pre-snap, Duke should know there's going to be a lane between Tytus & Fells. What am I missing here?
  • Nick Martin gets pushed back way too deep. This is a common theme with Martin, so not surprising, which shouldn't be the case. This causes Zach (who was pulling), to get to his man much slower and too late.
  • Despite this, Duke still should have gotten the 1st if Brandin Cooks did at least an average job of blocking the corner.
So much fail in one play. Fans keep asking, why do we keep running the ball? It's because when the defense gives it to you, like in this case, you have to be able to take it.



View attachment 6933
The fail rests solely with 1 player, Nick Martin who singlehandedly destroys the timing of this play by getting destroyed himself......In fact he got destroyed so badly that Fulton gets re-routed so he can't get to his kick out block of the OLB in time & that in turn simultaneously re-routes Duke and he has to bounce it around both of them. If Martin is even remotely average on this play, Duke has time to cut it back & stick his nose in there for the 1 yard like It appears he thought about for a split second before staying playside b/c that's where the numbers are supposed to allow us the advantage on that particular play....

This is just 1 of the reasons i'm so critical of these side hand off run plays..Martin simply can't hold the point of attack. I've seen them try to run this with Howard pulling, the TE pulling from the other side like Fulton...all of them trying to do the same kick out block of the edge guy & they can never get there either b/c Martin is getting his **** pushed in disrupting the timing...or b/c they're just too slow getting there to execute the block (Fells, Akins). The other reason is b/c the play doesn't lend itself to the natural instincts of the RB. It's designed to go through the B gap and only the B gap. It's very hard for these guys to cut back when you're trying to read what's going on in front of you playside & your momentum is already taking you in 1 direction. They need to be put in situations where they can pick where the hole opens up. This is why Arian was so successful & guys like Adrian Peterson who ran primarily out of that I formation with no full back. Plays were designed to take you in a general direction but if something opened up on the backside, they were set up to be able to choose to cut back if it opened up. In Arians case, he was allowed to choose which hole he ran it through on those stretch plays.
 
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amazing80

Fire Billy O
The fail rests solely with 1 player, Nick Martin who singlehandedly destroys the timing of this play by getting destroyed himself......In fact he got destroyed so badly that Fulton gets re-routed so he can't get to his kick out block of the OLB in time & that in turn simultaneously re-routes Duke and he has to bounce it around both of them. If Martin is even remotely average on this play, Duke has time to cut it back & stick his nose in there for the 1 yard like It appears he thought about for a split second before staying playside b/c that's where the numbers are supposed to allow us the advantage on that particular play....

This is just 1 of the reasons i'm so critical of these side hand off run plays..Martin simply can't hold the point of attack. I've seen them try to run this with Howard pulling, the TE pulling from the other side like Fulton...all of them trying to do the same kick out block of the edge guy & they can never get there either b/c Martin is getting his **** pushed in disrupting the timing...or b/c they're just too slow getting there to execute the block (Fells, Akins). The other reason is b/c the play doesn't lend itself to the natural instincts of the RB. It's designed to go through the B gap and only the B gap. It's very hard for these guys to cut back when you're trying to read what's going on in front of you playside & your momentum is already taking you in 1 direction. They need to be put in situations where they can pick where the hole opens up. This is why Arian was so successful & guys like Adrian Peterson who ran primarily out of that I formation with no full back. Plays were designed to take you in a general direction but if something opened up on the backside, they were set up to be able to choose to cut back if it opened up. In Arians case, he was allowed to choose which hole he ran it through on those stretch plays.
I agree Martin screwed that up but at some point our RBs need to have the vision to make the right cut. I blame them both
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
The fail rests solely with 1 player, Nick Martin who singlehandedly destroys the timing of this play by getting destroyed himself......In fact he got destroyed so badly that Fulton gets re-routed so he can't get to his kick out block of the OLB in time & that in turn simultaneously re-routes Duke and he has to bounce it around both of them. If Martin is even remotely average on this play, Duke has time to cut it back & stick his nose in there for the 1 yard like It appears he thought about for a split second before staying playside b/c that's where the numbers are supposed to allow us the advantage on that particular play....

This is just 1 of the reasons i'm so critical of these side hand off run plays..Martin simply can't hold the point of attack. I've seen them try to run this with Howard pulling, the TE pulling from the other side like Fulton...all of them trying to do the same kick out block of the edge guy & they can never get there either b/c Martin is getting his **** pushed in disrupting the timing...or b/c they're just too slow getting there to execute the block (Fells, Akins). The other reason is b/c the play doesn't lend itself to the natural instincts of the RB. It's designed to go through the B gap and only the B gap. It's very hard for these guys to cut back when you're trying to read what's going on in front of you playside & your momentum is already taking you in 1 direction. They need to be put in situations where they can pick where the hole opens up. This is why Arian was so successful & guys like Adrian Peterson who ran primarily out of that I formation with no full back. Plays were designed to take you in a general direction but if something opened up on the backside, they were set up to be able to choose to cut back if it opened up. In Arians case, he was allowed to choose which hole he ran it through on those stretch plays.
I agree with you the way the play is designed, Nick Martin gets most of the blame here. But we see Martin get pushed back way too often. At what point do coaches need to either give him help, or give up on calling this play all together.

At the same time, I imagine Duke has more freedom. At what point does he HAVE to read the hole is going to be on the backside and make the right cut.
 

justmy2cents

Rookie
Contributor's Club
I don't know where to start and have so many questions. It's one yard. How many of the OL have even driven their man one yard downfield? Why does the OL seem to get so little push? Even if this was a play action, look at Fells getting beat again.

Is it coaching or talent? Exactly what blocking scheme are they using on this play? Man or zone? Why do we have so many of these slow footed guards pulling?

This the question that plagues me too. Our offense was so much better last year. I never was an O'Brien fan .... but his simple but aggressive power run offense last year was very effective .... it gave freedom and energy to the passing game .... we've got all the same players on the offense, except DeAndre Hopkins and Carlos Hyde. Of course, Hop is leading the league (no surprise), but Carlos Hyde is running 3rd string .... and he ran for nearly 100 yards/game last year. It allowed us to be an energetic, proactive team .... it's more fun to be aggressive than absorbent. It wouldn't be that difficult to get back to that .... and the players would be happier .... "tis better to give, than receive !!
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
This is what I appreciate the most. You literally broke the entire play down as well as post the great All-22 footage of that particular play. You’re not focused on one individual or trying to place blame on just one player.


Top of the line stuff right here gents.



This just shows the lack of vision our RB’s have as well as not really having the feel for the game. This further exhibits the point of us not winning the battle in the trenches.
Typically when a play fails this poorly, multiple people didn't execute properly. I don't care about being right with my opinions, I just care about finding the correct solution.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Torturing myself by watching the All-22. On the first offensive series of the game, it was 3rd & 1. We initially show an empty backfield. DW sees 6 defenders in the box (5 db's), so he signals Duke to the backfield. The Texans have 6 blockers on the line. We just need one friggin' yard, this should be a gimme! So much fail in this play!
  • Duke has a BIG a$$ hole to his right, which he totally ignores. I mean, just from pre-snap, Duke should know there's going to be a lane between Tytus & Fells. What am I missing here?
  • Nick Martin gets pushed back way too deep. This is a common theme with Martin, so not surprising, which shouldn't be the case. This causes Zach (who was pulling), to get to his man much slower and too late.
  • Despite this, Duke still should have gotten the 1st if Brandin Cooks did at least an average job of blocking the corner.
So much fail in one play. Fans keep asking, why do we keep running the ball? It's because when the defense gives it to you, like in this case, you have to be able to take it.



View attachment 6933
Just another play in OB's playbook that should be scratched off.

You only need a yard.
Why try to outsmart yourself.
Just run a simple inside zone run.
Put 3 double teams on the three interior linemen.
The RB should be able to gain a yard before either end man can get to him from the outside in.

If you want to, you can send the Y in motion to inside the Z just before the snap to cut block the LOLB.

Teach the QB to fake the pull back and scamper to his left to freeze the ROLB temporarily.

K.I.S.S.
Keep it simple, stupid.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
This the question that plagues me too. Our offense was so much better last year. I never was an O'Brien fan .... but his simple but aggressive power run offense last year was very effective .... it gave freedom and energy to the passing game .... we've got all the same players on the offense, except DeAndre Hopkins and Carlos Hyde. Of course, Hop is leading the league (no surprise), but Carlos Hyde is running 3rd string .... and he ran for nearly 100 yards/game last year. It allowed us to be an energetic, proactive team .... it's more fun to be aggressive than absorbent. It wouldn't be that difficult to get back to that .... and the players would be happier .... "tis better to give, than receive !!
Hyde is actually the back up to Carson in Seattle and it's Johnson who should be 3rd string, if that, here. The run game with Johnson is so bad, teams are showing zero respect for it. Want to know why the deep shots downfield haven't been happening much this year? It's because safeties can hang back not having to worry about the Texans run game. Those things make a difference. And I don't see much change there if the Texans are going to insist on feeding the rock to one of the slowest, non-tackle breaking backs in the game, along with an o-line that gets no push.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The fail rests solely with 1 player, Nick Martin who singlehandedly destroys the timing of this play by getting destroyed himself......In fact he got destroyed so badly that Fulton gets re-routed so he can't get to his kick out block of the OLB in time
Makes you wonder what Tim Kelly (the OC) Mike Devlin (the OL coach) & the run game coordinator (if we have one) are thinking when they designed this play & installed it in the game plan.

Martin is weak in the run game. Period.

Why is the double between Tunsil & Kelemente on the end? I wonder how Tunsil would have handled that end one on one.

But Watson should have known better.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Look at Fells when the defender gets near and he's about to "block". Fells' head is down. Nobody is blocking anyone with your head down. That's coaching.
Before joining the Texans, Fells had a reputation for being a good blocker. Last season, I heard an interview where he mentioned because of his limited experience at TE, he knew his career would be as a blocking TE and worked with an OL coach to improve his blocking. He joins the Texans and has led the NFL in missed blocks by TEs.

Now we have Pharoah Brown who is known as a blocking TE. I saw him whiff trying to block a DB. Go figure.
 


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