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2024 Texans off season

badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
Green Bay will according to sources I use select either a WR or QB with their high round 1 despite almost every fan comment saying they should go Offensive line at any position. I have suggested Trading our round one from Browns for both of their round twos. However, what about trading Titus Howard for their round twos? Both their own and the one from the New York Jets appear to be high in the draft.

My thought is Howard is not doing well at left guard and hopefully in 2024 either Patterson or Scruggs will be our starting left guard. Fant while I disagree with another poster of being excellent is better than I and many others expected. Fant is 31 and would need to be extended but that should be no difficulty. The dead cap hit for a trade pre June 1 2024 will be 13 and a half million and would be absorbed in that calendar year. As day two is not good for quality offensive tackles I would think Packers might be very willing to make this trade. I also think we could probably lock up Josh Jones in an extension very reasonably. Your thoughts?
 
badboy said:
Green Bay will according to sources I use select either a WR or QB with their high round 1 despite almost every fan comment saying they should go Offensive line at any position. I have suggested Trading our round one from Browns for both of their round twos. However, what about trading Titus Howard for their round twos? Both their own and the one from the New York Jets appear to be high in the draft.

My thought is Howard is not doing well at left guard and hopefully in 2024 either Patterson or Scruggs will be our starting left guard. Fant while I disagree with another poster of being excellent is better than I and many others expected. Fant is 31 and would need to be extended but that should be no difficulty. The dead cap hit for a trade pre June 1 2024 will be 13 and a half million and would be absorbed in that calendar year. As day two is not good for quality offensive tackles I would think Packers might be very willing to make this trade. I also think we could probably lock up Josh Jones in an extension very reasonably. Your thoughts?
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You would be lucky to get a single 2nd for Howard.

Maybe a 3rd for a very avg RT. Why would they trade for Howard when they could just sign Fant in FA?
 
steelbtexan said:
You would be lucky to get a single 2nd for Howard.

Maybe a 3rd for a very avg RT. Why would they trade for Howard when they could just sign Fant in FA?
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My thought would be the Texans would extend Fant. I agree that Howard as a left guard would not draw two round twos however as a right tackle I think he would.
 
Steven Nelson extension could look like Darius Slay Philly using comparison from Spotrac:

Slay's was a re-work of 2023 ~$23 m cap hit + two year extension= $42 m with $10 m signing bonus.

Nelson extension three for $42 m with $10 bonus & $24m GTD and early out in 2026.

*Note Slay better stats (5 year pro-bowl including '21 &'22) 32 {Jan} YOA deal completed March 2023.
2022: 17 g 55 tackles;17 PBU; 3 INTs
2023: 12 g 49 tackles; 12 PBU; 2 INTs

Nelson 2022: 15 g 46 tackles; 1 sack; 7 PBU; 1 INT
2023: 12 g 43 tackles; 0 sack; 9 PBU; 3 INT compares to Nelson's '22 pro bowl

Contract break down:

2024 Base $7 m bonus ~ $3 m salary cap $10 million $10 million GTD earned
2025 Base $7 m bonus ~ $3 m salary cap $10 million $20 million GTD earned
2026 early out bonus~ $4 m at 33 YOA
 
badboy said:
My thought would be the Texans would extend Fant. I agree that Howard as a left guard would not draw two round twos however as a right tackle I think he would.
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I agree with @steelbtexan that I don’t think we’d get 2 round twos, even at RT. Maybe one and a ‘25 pick as well. Although I like the idea of potentially trading Howard, I don’t know if Caserio would do it.

I think OT will go quick in round 1, so if we did trade Howard we might have to move up if we were going to try to get Latham or Fuaga.
 
Question -

Is it wrong to think Howard is a good RT but bad at everything else? I keep hearing he did good RT but when asked to move to other positions which has been a constant for his career, then he hasn’t done as well.

Why can’t we just keep Howard at RT?

Was he bad at RT?
 
TexansFan15 said:
I agree with @steelbtexan that I don’t think we’d get 2 round twos, even at RT. Maybe one and a ‘25 pick as well. Although I like the idea of potentially trading Howard, I don’t know if Caserio would do it.

I think OT will go quick in round 1, so if we did trade Howard we might have to move up if we were going to try to get Latham or Fuaga.
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I would not consider trading Titus Howard unless we had his replacement locked in such as Fant.
 
TexansBull said:
Question -

Is it wrong to think Howard is a good RT but bad at everything else? I keep hearing he did good RT but when asked to move to other positions which has been a constant for his career, then he hasn’t done as well.

Why can’t we just keep Howard at RT?

Was he bad at RT?
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He's an avg RT. Better than a LG. Problem is he's the 11th highest paid OT in the NFL. I would trade him for peanuts if saving his money meant getting Wilkins or Hunter in FA.
 
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TexansBull said:
Question -

Is it wrong to think Howard is a good RT but bad at everything else? I keep hearing he did good RT but when asked to move to other positions which has been a constant for his career, then he hasn’t done as well.

Why can’t we just keep Howard at RT?

Was he bad at RT?
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He has been fairly effective when allowed to remain at right tackle. He moved to LG a bit in 2022 IIRC and was horrible. When basically all LG options went down after Kenyon Green went IR, Coaches decided Tytus would give CJ best option with Fant replacing Tytus at RT. As much as we complain, after 408 snaps this year, Howard has given up one sack and zero penalties according to pff. He just looks really bad doing it.
 
Unfortunately, Howard was never really given a chance to play RT this season. His season is done. Texans are in a real hole with Howard b/c he's the one with the contract and no wiggle room until 2025. Howard wouldn't garner a lot of attention at RT simply b/c he's injured again and didn't get any new tape at RT for executives to get excited about. At this juncture, the Texans can only hope that all their pieces get healthy for next season. Unfortunately, this probably negates a Fant return due to finances and no real ability to unload Tytus and his contract.

In all honesty, the Texans should plan on drafting another OT b/c Tunsil and Howard are pretty unreliable based on their ability to get injured. Tunsil's soft impact is after the 2025 season. He'd be a UFA in 2027. Howard's soft out is after the 2024 season with a softer out after the 2025 season. He to would be an UFA in 2027.

Howard would need a decent season at RT in 2024 to give him any reasonable trade value.

For me, I'm probably drafting OT in 2024 and 2025 with a focus on a player that can excel in both pass and run blocking. Mostly in preparation for the eventual departure of both Howard and Tunsil.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
For me, I'm probably drafting OT in 2024 and 2025 with a focus on a player that can excel in both pass and run blocking. Mostly in preparation for the eventual departure of both Howard and Tunsil.
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I like this thought process. If we didn’t have other needs, I’d consider drafting one this year because it’s a good year at OT.

But I imagine that drafting an eventual replacement will happen like you said in ‘24 or ‘25. I’d hope for ‘24 just so the guy can get a year under his belt before being thrust into starting.
 
Draft RT Taliese Fuaga round 1 and Cooper Beebe round 2 2024.
Draft in 2025 the LT from Georgia.

Trade after 2024 Tunsil, Howard and Shaq Mason. Switch to power blocking scheme.
 
badboy said:
Draft RT Taliese Fuaga round 1 and Cooper Beebe round 2 2024.
Draft in 2025 the LT from Georgia.

Trade after 2024 Tunsil, Howard and Shaq Mason. Switch to power blocking scheme.
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I’m not as high on Beebe as some. I think his feet aren’t super quick and could be a problem when he transitions to the NFL.
 
TexansBull said:
Question -

Is it wrong to think Howard is a good RT but bad at everything else? I keep hearing he did good RT but when asked to move to other positions which has been a constant for his career, then he hasn’t done as well.

Why can’t we just keep Howard at RT?

Was he bad at RT?
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I always go back to the question of why did we draft Tytus Howard? We drafted him to play LT, but then Tunsil became available later in the offseason. Shockingly poor planning by the Texans.

OBrien did his multiple position thing in his rookie training camp, and he began to get lost in the shuffle from there. It may be the case that Tytus’ best position is LT, he’s an average RT that has spells of outplaying that, he’s a replacement level LG despite the conception that it’s an easier position to play.

I see a 4 way battle for the LG/C positions this training camp, and I dislike that the decision is over complicated with 4 players and most trying at 2 positions. Snaps will be limited and we may not find the right answer. I see Howard being the de facto RT going in to camp, I see Fant walking.

A frustrating thing with the OL is how long the development cycle takes, Heck has been around for a while now and is only just proving to be a wasted project, you seem to have to invest a minimum 3 years into a developmental OT and may find no return when you have to test them.
 
welsh texan said:
A frustrating thing with the OL is how long the development cycle takes, Heck has been around for a while now and is only just proving to be a wasted project, you seem to have to invest a minimum 3 years into a developmental OT and may find no return when you have to test them.
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Very similar to QB position in that regard. That’s why I don’t mind spending extra to get a proven OL. But when you spend big $ like the Texans have AND premium picks it is definitely frustrating.

That being said, I am encouraged by Scruggs/Patterson from this year’s draft. In a perfect world Kenyon Green turns into a stud but as Houston sports fans we don’t live in perfect worlds.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Very similar to QB position in that regard. That’s why I don’t mind spending extra to get a proven OL. But when you spend big $ like the Texans have AND premium picks it is definitely frustrating.

That being said, I am encouraged by Scruggs/Patterson from this year’s draft. In a perfect world Kenyon Green turns into a stud but as Houston sports fans we don’t live in perfect worlds.
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Hopefully the acquisitions of Josh Jones and Kendrick Green and Nick Broeker will pay off handsomely in the next few years
 
welsh texan said:
A frustrating thing with the OL is how long the development cycle takes, Heck has been around for a while now and is only just proving to be a wasted project, you seem to have to invest a minimum 3 years into a developmental OT and may find no return when you have to test them
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Kinda hard when we're firing HCs every year. If the Texans don't fire their HC this season (I'm sure they won't) it will be the first time in a long time.
 
badboy said:
In a power blocking scheme he does not need quick feet but just the ability to overwhelm and push. He does that extremely well.
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thats not true. Anytime you're playing against strong,agile guys, your feet will determine if you can get the body in place to block guys. You're not going to just power guys in the nfl if your feet aren't quick. We've seen these so called road grader guys with slow feet get worked.
 
leebigeztx said:
Yeah, I like this guy too. If I were the Texans, I would resign motor at 3 year 5m per with incentives and draft a guy in the 3rd or 4th rd. Trade Pierce for whatever,keep Dare because he's a special teams do it all. I really like Irving in that range.
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I would hope that I could get a 5th or 6th for Pierce. I also would use one of those 7ths on a guy like McClelland out of Alabama.

RB room would look like this.

Motor/Irving/McClelland/Dare. A young deep RB room.
 
leebigeztx said:
thats not true. Anytime you're playing against strong,agile guys, your feet will determine if you can get the body in place to block guys. You're not going to just power guys in the nfl if your feet aren't quick. We've seen these so called road grader guys with slow feet get worked.
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I think what you are calling quick feet is what I call slide.. moving feet in any of four directions to maintain positional contact. Not having this leads to your point on road graders being worked.
My idea is moving foot placement in an anchoring or readjustment of anchor to deliver a 'pop' or powering opponent to drive and control usually forward and sometimes backward to re-set and re-gain control. I don't think any of our offensive lineman do that well although I hope that Scruggs and Patterson will have that ability.
 
steelbtexan said:
I would hope that I could get a 5th or 6th for Pierce. I also would use one of those 7ths on a guy like McClelland out of Alabama.

RB room would look like this.

Motor/Irving/McClelland/Dare. A young deep RB room.
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I can get with that. When you get the chance, watch the 19 yr old rb from Wisconsin. He's alot like Jacobs and Henry and he runs with a good pad level with such a big man.If they resign motor or decide to let motor go and go with 2 young guys, I like he and Irving. I worry a little about pass with 2 young backs though.
 
My problem when viewing/assessing offensive linemen, is that much of the time they look clumsy, or at least unsure of their responsibilities. I know that they are 300-350 pounds, so they shouldn't be expected to be nimble, but they look as though they lack commitment. I know that's not true. I don't know what is ! It's a conundrum !
 
leebigeztx said:
I can get with that. When you get the chance, watch the 19 yr old rb from Wisconsin. He's alot like Jacobs and Henry and he runs with a good pad level with such a big man.If they resign motor or decide to let motor go and go with 2 young guys, I like he and Irving. I worry a little about pass with 2 young backs though.
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I've seen Allen and have RB's rated like this.

Benson
Allen
Irving
Corum
Henderson

Doubtful Allen or Benson will be there when the Texans are picking in rd 2. I've got them picking around pick 55-57 in the 2nd. Do you think one of Irving/Corum/Henderson will be there in the 3rd?
 
steelbtexan said:
I would hope that I could get a 5th or 6th for Pierce. I also would use one of those 7ths on a guy like McClelland out of Alabama.

RB room would look like this.

Motor/Irving/McClelland/Dare. A young deep RB room.
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No way they draft 2 RBs even if one is in the 7th rd. Another thing is all 3 (bolded) are a liability in pass protection. But Motor has performed better than expected and has earned a new contract so I would try to resign him now if the cap space is available. If he doesn't want to resign, I'd take a look at D'Andre Swift in free agency.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
No way they draft 2 RBs even if one is in the 7th rd. Another thing is all 3 (bolded) are a liability in pass protection. But Motor has performed better than expected and has earned a new contract so I would try to resign him now if the cap space is available. If he doesn't want to resign, I'd take a look at D'Andre Swift in free agency.
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Swift or Dillon are 2 FA's I would look at.

I wanted Achane badly last yr and I think Irving is close to Achane in talent. A guy that's a threat to score anytime he touches the ball is a weapon that's currently missing in both the WR and RB corps. Irving will probably fall to the Texans pick in the 3rd rd. He's not terrible in pass pro. Motor is a good comparison for Irving in pass pro. McClellan is actually pretty good in pass pro. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
I've seen Allen and have RB's rated like this.

Benson
Allen
Irving
Corum
Henderson

Doubtful Allen or Benson will be there when the Texans are picking in rd 2. I've got them picking around pick 55-57 in the 2nd. Do you think one of Irving/Corum/Henderson will be there in the 3rd?
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Looking at the rb market, I think all of them will be there in the 3rd rd honestly. Cook and Achane were in the 2nd and 3rd rds?
 
leebigeztx said:
Looking at the rb market, I think all of them will be there in the 3rd rd honestly. Cook and Achane were in the 2nd and 3rd rds?
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It would hurt my feeling if both Sweat and either Benson or Irving were there in the 3rd that they use a 4th and a 2023 3rd to trade up for Sweat and Benson. 2 difference makers.
 
steelbtexan said:
I've seen Allen and have RB's rated like this.

Benson
Allen
Irving
Corum
Henderson

Doubtful Allen or Benson will be there when the Texans are picking in rd 2. I've got them picking around pick 55-57 in the 2nd. Do you think one of Irving/Corum/Henderson will be there in the 3rd?
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This isn’t a very good RB class. I think most of them will come off mid- late day 2 and beyond.
 
leebigeztx said:
I can get with that. When you get the chance, watch the 19 yr old rb from Wisconsin. He's alot like Jacobs and Henry and he runs with a good pad level with such a big man.If they resign motor or decide to let motor go and go with 2 young guys, I like he and Irving. I worry a little about pass with 2 young backs though.
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If you notice Dare plays on a lot of passing downs because he's their only RB that's good in pass pro.
 
leebigeztx said:
Looking at the rb market, I think all of them will be there in the 3rd rd honestly. Cook and Achane were in the 2nd and 3rd rds?
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Hope you're right

If that's the case then I would hope Caserio/Ryans would draft like this.

DeJohn
Legette
Sweat
Trade back up into the 3rd for one of Benson/Allen/Irving.

I'm adding Hunter and a couple of LB's Shaair/Burks from the 49ers system and re-signing Cashman.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think the top 2 are every down players and Irving is a real weapon like Achane.
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I like Benson. He’s decent in pass protection and I like his explosiveness. I wish he was more patient on waiting for the blocks to open up.

Irving is love that he’s an excellent receiver as well as runner.

I definitely want to add to our RB room, but I don’t know if it’ll be through the draft versus signing on of the FAs.
 
steelbtexan said:
Hope you're right

If that's the case then I would hope Caserio/Ryans would draft like this.

DeJohn
Legette
Sweat
Trade back up into the 3rd for one of Benson/Allen/Irving.

I'm adding Hunter and a couple of LB's Shaair/Burks from the 49ers system and re-signing Cashman.
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The more I listen and see, I don't think Sweat is making it out of the 1st rd. As big as he is, he's more explosive and slippery than I 1st thought. Can he be Vea is the question? If so, I'm taking him in the 1st rd. I also think a playmaker at safety is in order. Ward is getting older and injured. Pitre is looking very avg and can't cover or tackle. Watching Hamilton be a Joker last night really caught my attention again. WR is a deep position again also in this draft. Really like Brian Thomas Jr in 2nd rd
 
leebigeztx said:
The more I listen and see, I don't think Sweat is making it out of the 1st rd. As big as he is, he's more explosive and slippery than I 1st thought. Can he be Vea is the question? If so, I'm taking him in the 1st rd. I also think a playmaker at safety is in order. Ward is getting older and injured. Pitre is looking very avg and can't cover or tackle. Watching Hamilton be a Joker last night really caught my attention again. WR is a deep position again also in this draft. Really like Brian Thomas Jr in 2nd rd
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Sweat would be really good value late in the 1st rd.

Sweat
Thomas
Best RB available and I would trade up some using one of the 4ths to get one of Benson/Allen/Irving

Best S prospect available. I like Barron from UT, but JB says he cant play and I'll admit that I'm terrible when it comes to S play.

What they've really gotta do is get Petrie back to playing within the scheme and quit freelancing so much. Right now Petie looks far more like Swearingen than Reid.
 
steelbtexan said:
Sweat would be really good value late in the 1st rd.

Sweat
Thomas
Best RB available and I would trade up some using one of the 4ths to get one of Benson/Allen/Irving

Best S prospect available. I like Barron from UT, but JB says he cant play and I'll admit that I'm terrible when it comes to S play.

What they've really gotta do is get Petrie back to playing within the scheme and quit freelancing so much. Right now Petie looks far more like Swearingen than Reid.
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I just don't know what to do about a safety that can't cover and is a poor tackler also. If he were a good tackler who can play close to the los, that's one thing,but a guy who does neither is a problem. Even with Kareem and his early struggles, he was a good tackler and he's not the biggest guy.
 
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