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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

ben.aires.smith said:
I like a lot of what Young brings to the table, especially in today's NFL where QBs are protected and advanced offense schemes that get rid of the ball more quickly. However, I am not in agreement with McShay that Young is a smaller version of Patrick Mahomes, although he has his type of skill set. And the reason is both size and arm, which are both sizable downgrades. I highly doubt Young will be able to shed blockers as well as Mahomes, and he certainly won't be able to make the same throws flat-footed or on the run.

I think Young is more like a better version of Doug Flutie, and I don't mean this in a disparaging way. Flutie had excellent escapability and preferred the pass over run, although he could scramble when needed. Flutie didn't have a noodle arm either relative to his size, and could make a wide array of throws. Could extend plays very well and was a high IQ player. Flutie numbers would have probably been more impressive in a modern offensive scheme.

With Young, I think we're getting the best of Flutie - or maybe 120% of peak Flutie - and opposed to Mahomes. Remember, Flutie didn't make his NFL comeback with the Bills until he was 35 after dominating the CFL for nearly a decade. I can live with peak Flutie/120% type of production in a modern offense if he can stay healthy.
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A lot of Young in Flutie's game, which the NFL didn't know what to do with initially back in the day. I wonder how he would have done if he re-entered the NFL and started in his prime? Intriguing to see how a similar guy will do in today's game, actually.

 
thunderkyss said:
You said he can’t hire his HC.

I said I agree, he’s useless.

You can’t figure out what I’m saying.
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How about we give him this draft and see what we think? Except for Stingley ( SMITH), I'm ok with his drafts. The GM can only order the ingredients the HC asks for. He can't implement the scheme they're used in.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
What does everyone think about the recent talk that Chicago should draft Bryce Young #1 and trade Justin Fields? Initially, most pundits were thinking Chicago would just stick with Fields. But now, a lot of chatter about the new management team 'getting their guy' with Young and also getting 2 extra years on rookie contract by taking Young, which could allow the team extra time to build. Thoughts?

I could be onboard with Young @ 2 overall, despite some reservations. But no way in hell I'm taking Stroud or any other QB there. I wonder how this is going to play out?

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Media talking out they’re a$$ but if they can we all can. I’d trade them pick #12 for Fields straight up.
:logo:
 
sandman said:
But he is about as raw and unproven as any QB we've talked about in the last several years being a potential first round prospect, and could absolutely set himself up for next year's draft by getting another year of coaching and development under his belt at Florida.
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I don't think Florida wanted Richardson to come back. They brought in transfer QBs from Ohio State and Wisconsin that will likely run the offense more as the coaches envision it. College coaches priorities aren't developing QBs for the NFL. It's to win football games. Richardson wasn't their recruit and didn't really fit their plans.
 
beerlover said:
Media talking out they’re a$$ but if they can we all can. I’d trade them pick #12 for Fields straight up.
:logo:
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I wonder about this. When it comes to media narratives, I try to focus on what makes sense vs. what they are saying. And Chicago taking Young actually does make sense in the ways described. 2 years on the rookie deal is a MAJOR advantage and Fields is not new management's guy. And Fields hasn't conclusively addressed whether he's an NFL passer yet. So this narrative may not be B.S... something to watch. Either way, makes sense to make people believe the narrative and strengthen draft leverage. Fields on the open market may be worth kicking the tires, if he becomes available.
 
DocBar said:
How about we give him this draft and see what we think? Except for Stingley ( SMITH), I'm ok with his drafts. The GM can only order the ingredients the HC asks for. He can't implement the scheme they're used in.
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You can give him this draft if you want. You can give him next year’s too.

I wouldn’t, but it’s not my choice. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I wanted him here, I was happy with the hire. He didn’t do things the way I wanted, that’s ok. Things didn’t work out the way he wanted. That’s ok.

He continues to do the same crap that didn’t work. That’s not ok. He doesn’t have the ability to hire the HC. Seems like we’re back to the HC working directly for the owner, the GM works directly for the owner.

we all know the owner is not qualified. Hopefully the owner will let the next guy do his job. The sooner we get there, the better
 
thunderkyss said:
You can give him this draft if you want. You can give him next year’s too.

I wouldn’t, but it’s not my choice. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I wanted him here, I was happy with the hire. He didn’t do things the way I wanted, that’s ok. Things didn’t work out the way he wanted. That’s ok.

He continues to do the same crap that didn’t work. That’s not ok. He doesn’t have the ability to hire the HC. Seems like we’re back to the HC working directly for the owner, the GM works directly for the owner.

we all know the owner is not qualified. Hopefully the owner will let the next guy do his job. The sooner we get there, the better
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Couldn’t have said it any better 👍
Always hopeful
Minimally invested
Kirby think tank never elevates to elite
DeMeco the disruptor?
 
ben.aires.smith said:
I like a lot of what Young brings to the table, especially in today's NFL where QBs are protected and advanced offense schemes that get rid of the ball more quickly. However, I am not in agreement with McShay that Young is a smaller version of Patrick Mahomes, although he has his type of skill set. And the reason is both size and arm, which are both sizable downgrades. I highly doubt Young will be able to shed blockers as well as Mahomes, and he certainly won't be able to make the same throws flat-footed or on the run.

I think Young is more like a better version of Doug Flutie, and I don't mean this in a disparaging way. Flutie had excellent escapability and preferred the pass over run, although he could scramble when needed. Flutie didn't have a noodle arm either relative to his size, and could make a wide array of throws. Could extend plays very well and was a high IQ player. He was talented. Flutie numbers would have probably been more impressive in a modern offensive scheme.

With Young, I think we're getting the best of Flutie - or maybe 120% of peak Flutie - and opposed to Mahomes. Remember, Flutie didn't make his NFL comeback with the Bills until he was 35 after dominating the CFL for nearly a decade. I can live with peak Flutie/120% type of production in a modern offense if he can stay healthy.
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Idnk great info n analysis thx for the share
 
thunderkyss said:
Mahomes is an extra terrestrial…



this has nothing to do with Mahomes’ success. His ability to get the ball to the right player regardless the situation is uncanny. Backfoot, sideways, upside down, falling backwards, dropping back 30 yards, it doesn’t matter. He’s got the arm strength, arm talent, accuracy, anticipation & whatever he needs to make that throw when he needs to make that throw.

Bryce Young is going to have to do it his way, & I’m sure he’s capable. But he’s not the next Mahomes. No knock on him. Lazy on McShay.
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Great points yes I see now the clarity is not necessarily the talent on Young but the Mahomes comparison is off
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Don't know what McShay is talking about. Because Young's Oline was so strong, he infrequently was pressured..................and when he was, he tended to "decompensate" resulting in very poor accuracy. He's going to see a lot more pressure in the NFL.
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Porky, I deserved a thumbs down on this post...............I mistakenly was talking about Stroud............Don't ask me why.

1676772979648.png
 
thunderkyss said:
You can give him this draft if you want. You can give him next year’s too.

I wouldn’t, but it’s not my choice. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I wanted him here, I was happy with the hire. He didn’t do things the way I wanted, that’s ok. Things didn’t work out the way he wanted. That’s ok.

He continues to do the same crap that didn’t work. That’s not ok. He doesn’t have the ability to hire the HC. Seems like we’re back to the HC working directly for the owner, the GM works directly for the owner.

we all know the owner is not qualified. Hopefully the owner will let the next guy do his job. The sooner we get there, the better
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What has he done that you disagree with? If the owner is controlling him, what makes you think that will change with a different GM? Seems like you have moew of an issue with ownership than the G
 
DocBar said:
What has he done that you disagree with? If the owner is controlling him, what makes you think that will change with a different GM? Seems like you have moew of an issue with ownership than the G
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as long as anyone tells me Caserio isn’t hiring the HCs, I’m going to keep saying he needs to go.

that’s where this conversation started


steelbtexan said:
He didn't make the choices on any HC's or Gannon would be the HC.
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sandman said:
Good size and build, arm strength, athlete, scrambler/runner... you just described a bunch of stats. Lots of guys have failed as NFL QB's with those stats.

As far as improving as the season went along, I will have to take your word for it because the game logs don't support your assessment.

First, his last two games that I mentioned weren't two good games. It was one good game with 400 yards, 60% completion rate and 3 TD's combined with one bad game with 198 yards, 33% completion rate and 3 TD's.

And even the good game was subjective because they were down 28-12 to Vandy when he started slinging the ball all over the field, throwing for 215 yards and 2 TDs on 10/19 attempts in the last 12 minutes of the game. Up until that point in the 4th quarter he had 185 passing yards.

In the FSU loss as his final collegiate game, here are his stats through 9:25 in the 2nd quarter: 5/7 151 yards 3TD 1INT. Absolutely brilliant.

For the rest of the game he doesn't make a completion until their final drive in the last two minutes, where he gets bailed out on a 4th and 18 with a PI call, makes three decent throws to get into the red zone, then proceeds to have three straight incompletions to lose the game by 7 points.

Second, in 3 of his last 5 games, he had a completion percentage below 50%. This was out of 88 pass attempts in those games, so it's not like the game plan was to limit him in this area. In his last four games he averaged 30 pass attempts per game, yet only got above 200 yards once. Again, he isn't in a run heavy offense that is attempting to limit is throwing.

All this to say that while he may have been seeing reads better and was responding to coaching, his play was inconsistent throughout the season and definitely not on an upward trajectory, he was also wildly inconsistent within games as noted above.

That being said, I don't see anything about how he plays that isn't correctable with coaching and experience. He doesn't look to run first but maximizes designed plays. Has all of the physical attributes as you noted above. But he is about as raw and unproven as any QB we've talked about in the last several years being a potential first round prospect, and could absolutely set himself up for next year's draft by getting another year of coaching and development under his belt at Florida.



I literally said that any QB taken is a risk, so not sure the need to counterpoint me. I'm simply saying there are much more NFL ready QB's that will be available to the Texans at 2 and 12 if that is the way they want to go. They don't need a project, despite all the "potential", "upside" and "high ceiling" adjectives that may be used to describe him. In my opinion, because I don't want to confuse anyone as to my role in the Texans draft this year.
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Agree to disagree.
 
thunderkyss said:
as long as anyone tells me Caserio isn’t hiring the HCs, I’m going to keep saying he needs to go.

that’s where this conversation started
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Let's call Culley a swing and a miss on Caserio's part. But there was an absolute goat rodeo going on with Jack whispering in Cal's ear about McCown and the potentially preferred candidate in Flores naming the Texans in his discrimination lawsuit. What owner in the league wouldn't interject at that point?
 
sandman said:
Let's call Culley a swing and a miss on Caserio's part. But there was an absolute goat rodeo going on with Jack whispering in Cal's ear about McCown and the potentially preferred candidate in Flores naming the Texans in his discrimination lawsuit. What owner in the league wouldn't interject at that point?
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Yeah if Caserio can't win a debate with Easterby, he ain't the one.

steelbtexan said:
Then you are never going to like a Texans GM
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& you'll never like Nigerian born Ohio State QBs. Water is wet, the sky is blue.
 
thunderkyss said:
Yeah if Caserio can't win a debate with Easterby, he ain't the one.


& you'll never like Nigerian born Ohio State QBs. Water is wet, the sky is blue.
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These decisions were being made long before Easterby or Caserio entered Kirby. If Janice or Easterby had their way, McCown would be the HC of the Texans. Which looking back on things.ay have not been a bad thing. I can tell you this for sure,Mills would have gotten better coaching and been much further along than he is now.

One thing is my preference, the other is a fact, the McNair's hire the HC's.
 
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thunderkyss said:
you'll never like Nigerian born Ohio State QBs. Water is wet, the sky is blue.
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Stroud? I don’t care where he’s from. If him and Young are equal in talent, give me Stroud. I just got a Kyler Murray feeling about Young. And what I mean by that is too small, and I just don’t think Murray is very good. I know, I know…. Size doesn’t matter if he can play he can play. I would just rather go elsewhere….
 
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austins23 said:
Stroud? I don’t care where he’s from. If him and Young are equal in talent, give me Stroud. I just got a Kyler Murray feeling about Young. And what I mean by that is too small, and I just don’t think Murray is very good. I know, I know…. Size doesn’t matter if he can play he can play. I would just rather go elsewhere….
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This is where I'm at.
Seeing Young next to Murray really made me do a double take.
Stick to the tried and proven notions - don't think you can reinvent the wheel.
Stroud can play. Go get him and build your team around him.
He'll be a rookie and maybe have a rookie year but many of them do.
I ain't expecting a miracle the first year - so I will be satisfied if he does okay, and not too disappointed if he underperforms. It's the Texans fan's lot in life.
 
Texansphan said:
This is where I'm at.
Seeing Young next to Murray really made me do a double take.
Stick to the tried and proven notions - don't think you can reinvent the wheel.
Stroud can play. Go get him and build your team around him.
He'll be a rookie and maybe have a rookie year but many of them do.
I ain't expecting a miracle the first year - so I will be satisfied if he does okay, and not too disappointed if he underperforms. It's the Texans fan's lot in life.
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You're setting yourself up for yrs of disappointment if Stroud's the pick and that's if he plays well.
 
Lucky said:
Kyler Murray has proven he can play in the NFL at his size. He has not proven his commitment to the game or his leadership. Two things that have never been brought into question in regards to Bryce Young.
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Shocker, he's also hurt and he's bigger than Young.
 
Lucky said:
And Kyler Murray is the only QB ever injured in the NFL. Case closed.
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For me it isn't so much the injuries as it is that he doesn't show up for the second half of seasons. Fast starts, horrible finishes.

Not sure that, and his attitude/mindset, have anything to do with him being short, but combine all of that with being short and it is a cautionary tale when looking at small QB's. Right or wrong, the stigma is there.
 
sandman said:
For me it isn't so much the injuries as it is that he doesn't show up for the second half of seasons. Fast starts, horrible finishes.

Not sure that, and his attitude/mindset, have anything to do with him being short, but combine all of that with being short and it is a cautionary tale when looking at small QB's. Right or wrong, the stigma is there.
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How do you explain Russell Wilson's near spotless injury history?
 
Lucky said:
How do you explain Russell Wilson's near spotless injury history?
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His last season in Seattle has missed something like 6 games with an injury and when he came cack he sucked and has sucked ever since he got injured on now 2 teams and counting.
 
sandman said:
The Russell Wilson Proves Short QBs Can Be Great argument is the same as the Tom Brady Was A 6th Round Draft Pick argument.
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So Russell Wilson should have been bigger, but his size was overlooked by scouts?
 
Lucky said:
Russell Wilson is one of the smallest QBs in the league. An has a near spotless injury history, missed a couple of games with a broken finger. You and Tuna have been proven wrong.
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1 player in NFL HISTORY doesn't prove anything.
 
thunderkyss said:
You said he can’t hire his HC.

I said I agree, he’s useless.

You can’t figure out what I’m saying.
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I think he would have been able to hire the HC he wanted until the Flores situation popped up and then Cal clearly stepped in and made a business decision to hire Lovie.
Cal stepped in just like 99% of owners would in the same situation.
It wasn't a coaching hire. It was a political business decision for the franchise.
 
Lucky said:
So Russell Wilson should have been bigger, but his size was overlooked by scouts?
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My friend, you are looking for a fight when there is none. This is the second post of mine that you have replied to without apparently reading what I said.

Russell Wilson is more than likely going into the HoF. Not because he was short. But because he was an amazing QB. But the fact that he was short and an amazing QB are an exception to the general rule that shorter/smaller QBs don't do well in the league.
 
steelbtexan said:
His last season in Seattle has missed something like 6 games with an injury and when he came cack he sucked and has sucked ever since he got injured on now 2 teams and counting.
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Including playoff games, Russell Wilson started the first 165 games of his career. Then, he missed 3 games with a broken finger. A finger. But, @steelbtexan thinks Wilson is too small and injury prone.

You will say anything to make a ridiculous point. Sad.
 
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