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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

Texansballer74 said:
Add in he’s inaccurate and a turnover machine. But he’s going to be great because the S2 test says so.

I can’t believe some people are taking that crap seriously. Wow

Why wasn’t anyone talking about this S2 crap during the 22 draft?
Click to expand...

When you saw a QB with a low Wonderlic score in the past, do you pause/assess or totally blow it off? Why would S2 be any different?

Also, the S2 results to date have never produced an output that said great scores = great QB, so not sure why arguing that point.
 
Lucky said:
If some teams use the test against Stroud, they could be costing themselves a franchise QB.

My understanding is that the NFL began incorporating the S2 tests in 2016. Since then, there has been around 25 QBs considered top prospects entering their respective drafts. 25. That's the definition of a small sample size.
I get the company that created the test are pushing their product. But any scientific method would only consider a much larger pool of samples to come to a definitive conclusion. And the fact that a high score does not verify a QB to become elite seems like a red flag. "But Mahomes scored high!" "Burrow scored high!" A few QBs out of a small pool? That's cherry picking.
Click to expand...
How many QB's/yrs before YOU wouldn't consider it cherry picking. 100-150 QB's? 10 yrs/20 yrs?

I'm not risking pick 1-2 on a selfish dumbazz who hangs out with the same people that your last sexual predator QB hangs out with. I mean his role models are Derrick/Vick. You cant make this crap up and his test scores let us know who he really is. Pass, or you will get what you deserve. High end mediocrity at best.
 
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djohn2oo8 said:
Because generally, having such a low test score doesn’t equate to NFL success at the position. There might be teams who use this against him, so he potentially just cost himself money.
Click to expand...

Question:

How many passed the test with flying colors and turned out to be a bust?

117 have taken the test. We see Burrow did well. Maybe a couple others that are actively playing at a high level. Where are all the others?

A test doesn’t prove someone can do the job, and it doesn’t prove someone can’t.

Sorry I have been around some real idiots in life with that 4.0 college education that makes you wonder how the hell they can put their shoes on in the morning.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
PFT
Hendon Hooker’s stock rises, now favored to be a first-round pick
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 26, 2023, 3:33 PM EDT

Tennessee quarterback Hendon Hooker appears likely to be a first-round draft pick on Thursday night.

Early in the offseason Hooker was seen as more likely to be a second-round pick, but now the betting odds have Hooker favored to be a first-round pick.

Four quarterbacks — Alabama’s Bryce Young, Ohio State’s C.J. Stroud, Florida’s Anthony Richardson and Kentucky’s Will Levis — are locks to be first-round picks. Hooker is the wild card, although an increasing number of mock drafts (including PFT’s) have Hooker going not just in the first round, but in the first half of the first round.

Hooker was the SEC offensive player of the year last season, although there are concerns about his age (25) and his knee (he suffered a torn ACL in November). It appears that enough teams think the impressive college production outweigh those concerns that someone will take him within the first 31 picks.
Click to expand...

If Hooker was 21, he would probably be a contender for No. 1 overall. Dude was fun to watch in college. Personally, I put him at the No. 4 QB behind Young, Stroud, and Richardson. With his injury and college system, he is a project, but without AR15's massive upside.
 
The1ApplePie said:
If Hooker was 21, he would probably be a contender for No. 1 overall. Dude was fun to watch in college. Personally, I put him at the No. 4 QB behind Young, Stroud, and Richardson. With his injury and college system, he is a project, but without AR15's massive upside.
Click to expand...
If you take him, I don't think you seriously contemplate starting him unless he is 100% healed and is impressive in training - and even then not until the second half of the season.
He will likely miss OTA's and preseason games so his development will be hampered.
More likely 2024 before you start him.
Treat with kid gloves!
 
BattleRedBlud said:
I think 18 is an indicator that

A) He didn't understand how to take the test
or
B) He didn't care to take the test, and rushed through it

What does that mean for his future as an NFL QB? The fact that he owned up to the test score and said "I'm not a test taker, I'm a football player" means to me that football is his focus, and he couldn't care less what people think about him.
Click to expand...

I got this mental picture of them handing him a playbook and him saying “What is this? I was drafted to lead, not to read” (apologies to The Simpsons and “President McBane).

Not really of course but it kind of feels like the sort of thing an “18” would say. Did he take it more than once? I thought I read that in a previous thread.
 
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Hervoyel said:
I got this mental picture of them handing him a playbook and him saying “What is this? I was drafted to lead, not to read” (apologies to The Simpsons and “President McBane).

Not really of course but it kind of feels like the sort of thing an “18” would say. Did he take it more than once? I thought I read that in a previous thread.
Click to expand...

Yup and I agree with you. I don't want him, I just think it's an explanation for the ridiculous score he received. I want Richardson after a trade down from 2 and gaining additional picks. Give him 23 to sit, and its his job in 24.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm not risking pick 1-2 on a selfish dumbazz who hangs out with the same people that your last sexual predator QB hangs out with.
Click to expand...
Why is he my last sexual predator QB? 6 degrees of separation from Watson? Is that the criteria for selecting a QB?
The1ApplePie said:
If Hooker was 21, he would probably be a contender for No. 1 overall. Dude was fun to watch in college. Personally, I put him at the No. 4 QB behind Young, Stroud, and Richardson. With his injury and college system, he is a project, but without AR15's massive upside.
Click to expand...
I would rank Hooker on par with the QBs from last year's draft. I actually saw a game between Liberty and Virginia Tech, where Malik Willis and Hooker put on a duel. Both were quite the runners. I think Tech won the game in OT? They were both exciting college players, but I didn't come away with thinking I'm watching future NFL starting QBs.
JB said:
Which team? You do know that OSU has 3 members of that Oline likely to be drafted high? Blitzing is not the only way to bring pressure
Click to expand...
When you think of Stroud's poor performance in 2022, it's the Michigan game. Especially the 2nd half. Did Harbough & Michigan bring a bunch of exotic blitzes? No. They stayed back in a cover 2 shell. Zone is the best way to beat a young QB. That's how the Texans beat Lawrence in his debut. How the Colts beat Watson and the Texans in 2018 WC game. Bryce Young had all kinds of trouble with the zone Brian Kelly and LSU put up. Pressure gives a young QB and easy option. Working against a zone requires patience and discipline. That's the best way to evaluate a QB prospect.
 
The1ApplePie said:
If Hooker was 21, he would probably be a contender for No. 1 overall. Dude was fun to watch in college. Personally, I put him at the No. 4 QB behind Young, Stroud, and Richardson. With his injury and college system, he is a project, but without AR15's massive upside.
Click to expand...

Basically same. I've also got him 4th on my list, with lower bust chances than Levis or Richardson but a lower ceiling too. That said, I could get behind Hooker. I think there's a fair chance he's a good to excellent starter by 24, but not very likely to be elite. Of course...who is? That's few and far between.
 
TexansBull said:
Question:

How many passed the test with flying colors and turned out to be a bust?

117 have taken the test. We see Burrow did well. Maybe a couple others that are actively playing at a high level. Where are all the others?

A test doesn’t prove someone can do the job, and it doesn’t prove someone can’t.

Sorry I have been around some real idiots in life with that 4.0 college education that makes you wonder how the hell they can put their shoes on in the morning.
Click to expand...

Except, the people who developed the S2 are already on record that a high score does not equate to becoming a great QB.

You don't have to like the assessment, even if the NFL is moving away from the Wonderlic to the S2. But don't create strawman arguments.
 
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pirbroke said:
7ec1a58a9a058e8fe5cddb85132f7997.jpg
Click to expand...
I just checked and this information is inaccurate
 
sandman said:
When you saw a QB with a low Wonderlic score in the past, do you pause/assess or totally blow it off? Why would S2 be any different?

Also, the S2 results to date have never produced an output that said great scores = great QB, so not sure why arguing that point.
Click to expand...
That test was totally different and it actually had more data. It didn’t just pop up out of the blue like this S2 crap.
 
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I did a final mock draft. I know this isn't a mock thread but just going on the record with my best guesses as of now. Pass it on by if you're not a mock draft fan.

I don't do trades in mocks, so take with large grains of salt as there will be probably 3 trades and we'll end up around 9 choices total.

1.2 - Tyree Wilson DE- Demeco gets someone that is somewhere between Arik Armstead and Nick Bosa. Ryans has stated he wants to build inside out. This suits that very well.
1.12 - Hendon Hooker QB - Probably trading down and then taking him, but who knows. Good developmental prospect that I think fits a WCO very well.
2.33 - Jalin Hyatt WR - Bringing in Hendon's running mate makes sense to help ease the transition, and Hyatt has enough juice to threaten teams over the top.
3.65 - Luke Wypler C - They need a C bad, and Wypler is a good fit in a zone scheme, which I assume we'll be running at times.
3.73 - Antonio Johnson S - They really need a 3rd guy to round out the S room. This seems a bit low for him, so excellent value. This Aggie is Pitre's future running mate and is excellent depth until then.
4/104 - Henry To'oto'o LB - Kind of a Christian Kirksey type so not the dynamic playmaker type. That's ok in the 4th round. Should be good for depth/ST and could start early in his career under the tutelage of Demeco.
5.161 - Zack Kuntz TE - I have seen projections from the 4th-7th round but he's big and athletic and has some after catch skills. I'm going more on scouting reports here. Haven't seen him in live action, but seemed like the right guy at the right time.
6.188 - Darrell Luter Jr. CB - Another small school guy I never saw live but fits the press corner type and overall traits show some real upside to be in the rotation.
6.201 - Rakim Jarrett WR - I'm taking him as Metchie ins. If Metchie comes all the way back, Jarrett might be on the PS. But kind of a slot type WR who can add depth.
6.203 - Keaton Mitchell RB - Smallish, but quick as a dime and fast as lightning. Can he play on 3rd down and protect the QB? Not sure, but at worst, he's a specialist change of pace back with speed to take it to the house on any touch.
7.230 - Dante Stills DL - Bit of a tweener type but I see him as a pass rusher from the interior. A rotational guy, isn't great at any one thing but could be in the mix and adds depth.
7. 259 - Starling Thomas V CB - Slot corner type. Depth/ST/PS type as he develops. He's got some tools if it all comes together.
 
Lucky said:
The only mid round QB the Texans brought in was Clayton Tune. The Raiders brought in at least 5 (McKee, Thompson-Robinson, Haener, O'Connell, and Cunningham).
Click to expand...
I was addressing the comment that the Texans were looking to trade down- and up- from #12
 
Porky said:
I did a final mock draft. I know this isn't a mock thread but just going on the record with my best guesses as of now. Pass it on by if you're not a mock draft fan.

I don't do trades in mocks, so take with large grains of salt as there will be probably 3 trades and we'll end up around 9 choices total.

1.2 - Tyree Wilson DE- Demeco gets someone that is somewhere between Arik Armstead and Nick Bosa. Ryans has stated he wants to build inside out. This suits that very well.
1.12 - Hendon Hooker QB - Probably trading down and then taking him, but who knows. Good developmental prospect that I think fits a WCO very well.
2.33 - Jalin Hyatt WR - Bringing in Hendon's running mate makes sense to help ease the transition, and Hyatt has enough juice to threaten teams over the top.
3.65 - Luke Wypler C - They need a C bad, and Wypler is a good fit in a zone scheme, which I assume we'll be running at times.
3.73 - Antonio Johnson S - They really need a 3rd guy to round out the S room. This seems a bit low for him, so excellent value. This Aggie is Pitre's future running mate and is excellent depth until then.
4/104 - Henry To'oto'o LB - Kind of a Christian Kirksey type so not the dynamic playmaker type. That's ok in the 4th round. Should be good for depth/ST and could start early in his career under the tutelage of Demeco.
5.161 - Zack Kuntz TE - I have seen projections from the 4th-7th round but he's big and athletic and has some after catch skills. I'm going more on scouting reports here. Haven't seen him in live action, but seemed like the right guy at the right time.
6.188 - Darrell Luter Jr. CB - Another small school guy I never saw live but fits the press corner type and overall traits show some real upside to be in the rotation.
6.201 - Rakim Jarrett WR - I'm taking him as Metchie ins. If Metchie comes all the way back, Jarrett might be on the PS. But kind of a slot type WR who can add depth.
6.203 - Keaton Mitchell RB - Smallish, but quick as a dime and fast as lightning. Can he play on 3rd down and protect the QB? Not sure, but at worst, he's a specialist change of pace back with speed to take it to the house on any touch.
7.230 - Dante Stills DL - Bit of a tweener type but I see him as a pass rusher from the interior. A rotational guy, isn't great at any one thing but could be in the mix and adds depth.
7. 259 - Starling Thomas V CB - Slot corner type. Depth/ST/PS type as he develops. He's got some tools if it all comes together.
Click to expand...

I think it is a much stronger possibility that the Texans trade up from 12 into the top 10 to get Richardson or Levis if they slide, then going Hooker. Hooker probably won't see the field in 2023, making him a better fit for a team like the Vikes that have a questionable, but solid QB that they may want to replace.
 
  • https://theathletic.com/4438654/2023/04/26/nfl-mock-draft-beat-writer-picks-2023/

  • Zac Jackson, David Lombardi, Bo Wulf, Vic Tafur, Mark Kaboly, Chad Graff, Jeff Howe, Nick Kosmider, Nate Taylor, Michael-Shawn Dugar, Colton Pouncy, Matt Barrows, Jeff Zrebiec, Jay Morrison, Joseph Person, Larry Holder, Doug Haller, Alec Lewis, Daniel Popper, The Athletic NFL Staff, Adam Jahns, Ben Standig, Jourdan Rodrigue, Josh Kendall, Zach Berman, Jon Machota, Matt Schneidman, Joe Buscaglia, Joe Rexrode, Charlotte Carroll, Zack Rosenblatt, James Boyd, Jim Ayello, Mike Jones

  • 26 min read
NFL Mock Draft 2023: Our beat writers pick 5 QBs in first round with Bryce Young No. 1
With the 2023 NFL Draft (finally) set to get underway Thursday, the timing was right to get our beat writers together one last time to see how they’d represent the team they cover with their first selection.

Compared to our previous beat writer mock draft (on March 22), many of the names remained the same in Round 1, but the order of those names are jumbled after the first six selections. As with previous mock drafts, we encouraged our writers to trade picks to move up or down if they felt their team would do the same, but there was just one trade (the Eagles dealt the 30th pick to the Raiders).

Here are how things played out:

1. Carolina Panthers (from CHI): Bryce Young, QB, Alabama
C.J. Stroud was at the top of this mock a month ago. So what changed? Well, Young crushed his interviews with the Panthers at his pro day and his top-30 visit to Carolina, and perhaps the media (raises hand) made too much of the Frank Reich-loves-big-quarterbacks storyline. Young also scored in the 98th percentile on the S2 Cognition test, which Panthers owner David Tepper is said to put a lot of faith in. There will continue to be concerns about whether the slightly built Young can endure the pounding of the NFL, but the Panthers believe he’s the player and leader to become the next face of the franchise. — Joe Person
https://theathletic.com/4430449/2023/04/20/panthers-nfl-draft-bryce-young-s2-test/
2. Houston Texans: C.J. Stroud, QB, Ohio State
Despite reports of an extremely low S2 score, a number of NFL talent evaluators still hold Stroud in high regard, even keeping him atop their quarterback boards. Could the Texans elect to pass over the Ohio State product and client of David Mulugheta (the same agent who reps Deshaun Watson) and go with another position of need to kick off the DeMeco Ryans era? Certainly. But there are a lot of smokescreens this time of year, and the Texans do need a quarterback. And so they go with Stroud and fill a gaping hole in their franchise. — Mike Jones
https://theathletic.com/4453617/2023/04/26/nfl-draft-class-qb-bryce-young/
3. Arizona Cardinals: Will Anderson, edge, Alabama
Prior to this mock, I had made it known the Cardinals were willing to trade down in case Anderson was not available. But with Carolina and Houston sticking with QBs, Arizona needs to take the best football player in the draft — which coincides with its biggest need — and make the obvious decision. With trades involving receiver DeAndre Hopkins and/or safety Budda Baker possibly coming, the Cardinals should have opportunities to add draft picks soon enough. Anderson gives first-year head coach Jonathan Gannon a defensive pillar, a playmaker he can build around. If he’s on the board, this is an easy choice. — Doug Haller
https://theathletic.com/4413880/2023/04/17/nfl-7-rounds-mock-draft-2023/
4. Indianapolis Colts: Anthony Richardson, QB, Florida
After the smoke cleared with Houston at No. 2 and Arizona at No. 3, the Colts’ decision came down to Kentucky’s Will Levis or Florida’s Anthony Richardson. They chose the latter, with Richardson having the most upside of any player in this year’s class. New coach Shane Steichen’s track record with QBs — most recently Eagles dual-threat superstar Jalen Hurts — gives the team confidence that he can help develop Richardson the same way. Gardner Minshew will likely start the season, but Indy believes its patience will pay off after potentially landing its first franchise quarterback since Andrew Luck retired in 2019. — James Boyd

5. Seattle Seahawks (from DEN): Jalen Carter, DT, Georgia
Carter fills an urgent need at a position of value that pushes the Seahawks closer to title contention. There are few concerns about him as a player. He might very well be the best full-time interior defensive lineman the Seahawks have had under coach Pete Carroll. The issues, of course, are the off-field concerns regarding work ethic and decision-making. Those questions lead me to believe Seattle will attempt to trade back Thursday. When they don’t find any suitors, they’ll roll the dice on Carter. — Michael-Shawn Dugar
https://theathletic.com/4402384/2023/04/12/seahawks-draft-jalen-carter-dremont-jones/
6. Detroit Lions (from LAR): Tyree Wilson, edge, Texas Tech
Come draft day, the Lions will be watching and waiting as the top five unfolds. Plenty of options, including a trade-back if a QB-needy team is hoping to move up for Levis. But in this scenario, Wilson is the pick. He’s one of the best defenders in the draft, at a premium position, and he’s a really nice fit opposite Aidan Hutchinson as a long-term edge. No need to overthink it. Detroit’s defense improves with a move like this. — Colton Pouncy

THE REST OF THE STORY
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
  • https://theathletic.com/4438654/2023/04/26/nfl-mock-draft-beat-writer-picks-2023/

  • Zac Jackson, David Lombardi, Bo Wulf, Vic Tafur, Mark Kaboly, Chad Graff, Jeff Howe, Nick Kosmider, Nate Taylor, Michael-Shawn Dugar, Colton Pouncy, Matt Barrows, Jeff Zrebiec, Jay Morrison, Joseph Person, Larry Holder, Doug Haller, Alec Lewis, Daniel Popper, The Athletic NFL Staff, Adam Jahns, Ben Standig, Jourdan Rodrigue, Josh Kendall, Zach Berman, Jon Machota, Matt Schneidman, Joe Buscaglia, Joe Rexrode, Charlotte Carroll, Zack Rosenblatt, James Boyd, Jim Ayello, Mike Jones

  • 26 min read
NFL Mock Draft 2023: Our beat writers pick 5 QBs in first round with Bryce Young No. 1
With the 2023 NFL Draft (finally) set to get underway Thursday, the timing was right to get our beat writers together one last time to see how they’d represent the team they cover with their first selection.

Compared to our previous beat writer mock draft (on March 22), many of the names remained the same in Round 1, but the order of those names are jumbled after the first six selections. As with previous mock drafts, we encouraged our writers to trade picks to move up or down if they felt their team would do the same, but there was just one trade (the Eagles dealt the 30th pick to the Raiders).

Here are how things played out:

1. Carolina Panthers (from CHI): Bryce Young, QB, Alabama
C.J. Stroud was at the top of this mock a month ago. So what changed? Well, Young crushed his interviews with the Panthers at his pro day and his top-30 visit to Carolina, and perhaps the media (raises hand) made too much of the Frank Reich-loves-big-quarterbacks storyline. Young also scored in the 98th percentile on the S2 Cognition test, which Panthers owner David Tepper is said to put a lot of faith in. There will continue to be concerns about whether the slightly built Young can endure the pounding of the NFL, but the Panthers believe he’s the player and leader to become the next face of the franchise. — Joe Person
https://theathletic.com/4430449/2023/04/20/panthers-nfl-draft-bryce-young-s2-test/
2. Houston Texans: C.J. Stroud, QB, Ohio State
Despite reports of an extremely low S2 score, a number of NFL talent evaluators still hold Stroud in high regard, even keeping him atop their quarterback boards. Could the Texans elect to pass over the Ohio State product and client of David Mulugheta (the same agent who reps Deshaun Watson) and go with another position of need to kick off the DeMeco Ryans era? Certainly. But there are a lot of smokescreens this time of year, and the Texans do need a quarterback. And so they go with Stroud and fill a gaping hole in their franchise. — Mike Jones
https://theathletic.com/4453617/2023/04/26/nfl-draft-class-qb-bryce-young/
3. Arizona Cardinals: Will Anderson, edge, Alabama
Prior to this mock, I had made it known the Cardinals were willing to trade down in case Anderson was not available. But with Carolina and Houston sticking with QBs, Arizona needs to take the best football player in the draft — which coincides with its biggest need — and make the obvious decision. With trades involving receiver DeAndre Hopkins and/or safety Budda Baker possibly coming, the Cardinals should have opportunities to add draft picks soon enough. Anderson gives first-year head coach Jonathan Gannon a defensive pillar, a playmaker he can build around. If he’s on the board, this is an easy choice. — Doug Haller
https://theathletic.com/4413880/2023/04/17/nfl-7-rounds-mock-draft-2023/
4. Indianapolis Colts: Anthony Richardson, QB, Florida
After the smoke cleared with Houston at No. 2 and Arizona at No. 3, the Colts’ decision came down to Kentucky’s Will Levis or Florida’s Anthony Richardson. They chose the latter, with Richardson having the most upside of any player in this year’s class. New coach Shane Steichen’s track record with QBs — most recently Eagles dual-threat superstar Jalen Hurts — gives the team confidence that he can help develop Richardson the same way. Gardner Minshew will likely start the season, but Indy believes its patience will pay off after potentially landing its first franchise quarterback since Andrew Luck retired in 2019. — James Boyd

5. Seattle Seahawks (from DEN): Jalen Carter, DT, Georgia
Carter fills an urgent need at a position of value that pushes the Seahawks closer to title contention. There are few concerns about him as a player. He might very well be the best full-time interior defensive lineman the Seahawks have had under coach Pete Carroll. The issues, of course, are the off-field concerns regarding work ethic and decision-making. Those questions lead me to believe Seattle will attempt to trade back Thursday. When they don’t find any suitors, they’ll roll the dice on Carter. — Michael-Shawn Dugar
https://theathletic.com/4402384/2023/04/12/seahawks-draft-jalen-carter-dremont-jones/
6. Detroit Lions (from LAR): Tyree Wilson, edge, Texas Tech
Come draft day, the Lions will be watching and waiting as the top five unfolds. Plenty of options, including a trade-back if a QB-needy team is hoping to move up for Levis. But in this scenario, Wilson is the pick. He’s one of the best defenders in the draft, at a premium position, and he’s a really nice fit opposite Aidan Hutchinson as a long-term edge. No need to overthink it. Detroit’s defense improves with a move like this. — Colton Pouncy

THE REST OF THE STORY
Click to expand...
Can't read it... who do they have the Texans selecting at #12?
 
sandman said:
Except, the people who developed the S2 are already on record that a high score does not equate to becoming a great QB.

You don't have to like the assessment, even if the NFL is moving away from the Wonderlic to the S2. But don't create strawman arguments.
Click to expand...

It’s not a straw man. It just like every other test. You study enough, you learn the test taking skills, and you can pass anything. It doesn’t necessarily translate to success in a position. Nor does failing a test.

This is outrage for outrage sake.
 
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