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OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I think your views on Watson are based more on opinion than facts.
Young and Staubach were both with horrendous teams early on.....Young finally got out of TB and became the QB he was expected to be b/c of SF. Staubach just needed to bide his time as the Cowboys built the team around him. He got better as the talent around him became better.

I'd really like to see Watson get the Staubach treatment versus going the Young route. As for the Staubach route, someone please remind how OB is going to match the feat accomplished by Landry, Tex Schramm, and Gil Brandt. This trio were the architechts behind the Cowboys success.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
"DW won't win a championship unless he improves."

That's not a unique take. I think majority of people in here have the same thoughts, including myself.

I think what separates you, from everyone else, is that you believe DW will NOT improve. He has already reached his potential.

Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting your stance.

Exactly we all knows he has to improve in some areas. But like I stated several times before coaching has to put them in position to succeed. Other facets of the game plays very important part as well. But that dude refuses to address those things.

On the cool he doesn’t like Watson at all. So he’s going to always have something negative to say about him. I haven’t read one positive take from him concerning Watson.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think your views on Watson are based more on opinion than facts.
Has DW progressed or regressed IYO?

Regressed is what I base my opinion on.

You can blame the regression on BOB and some of this may be true. However at some point all QB's have to take ownership of the results of their play.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Has DW progressed or regressed IYO?

Regressed is what I base my opinion on.

You can blame the regression on BOB and some of this may be true. However at some point all QB's have to take ownership of the results of their play.
Like I said, we will never truly know. Could be Watson, could be BOB, could be situational, or a combination. It’s all theory and speculation. You just talk like it’s 100% on Watson.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Young and Staubach were both with horrendous teams early on.....Young finally got out of TB and became the QB he was expected to be b/c of SF. Staubach just needed to bide his time as the Cowboys built the team around him. He got better as the talent around him became better.

I'd really like to see Watson get the Staubach treatment versus going the Young route. As for the Staubach route, someone please remind how OB is going to match the feat accomplished by Landry, Tex Schramm, and Gil Brandt. This trio were the architechts behind the Cowboys success.
The Cowboys lost the SB to the Colts with Morton as their starting QB. They won a SB (Miami) with Staubach starting the next yr. The Cowboys were hardly a horrible team.

Revisionist history reigns supreme around here to support the DW4 narrative.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Like I said, we will never truly know. Could be Watson, could be BOB, could be situational, or a combination. It’s all theory and speculation. You just talk like it’s 100% on Watson.
When does a QB become responsible for his play?

BTW, I put in that post some of this is on BOB, hardly saying this is 100% DW4's fault.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Has DW progressed or regressed IYO?

Regressed is what I base my opinion on.

You can blame the regression on BOB and some of this may be true. However at some point all QB's have to take ownership of the results of their play.
Did everything in the Texans offense "progress" while Watson "regressed" for the past 3 seasons? If the offense "progressed" which areas got substantially better while Watson lagged behind?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
When does a coach become responsible for not developing his young QB?
This comes down to what you have to work with. All of the stats DW4's put up suggests BOB has done an OK (Not great job of developing DW4.) All of those stats aren't just because DW4's great and BOB's a mouth breather.

My point is with the new weapons it's on DW4 to show much improvement this yr. If he doesn't then he is what he is. he pressure is on DW4.
 

RGV82

Random guy
The Cowboys lost the SB to the Colts with Morton as their starting QB. They won a SB (Miami) with Staubach starting the next yr. The Cowboys were hardly a horrible team.

Revisionist history reigns supreme around here to support the DW4 narrative.
So I am not comparing this to Watson at all, but I am just wondering so I can fully understand where you are coming from in this whole QB-coach-system debate.... what exactly is your theory on a guy like Ryan Tannehill? Both 1st round selections (pick 8 and Watson pick 12 respectively). Tannehill is considered a "bust" somewhat, then goes to a better coach and system in Tennessee and all of a sudden he gets a HUGE contract and is considered the reason they did so well last year. WRONG system and WRONG coaching in Miami. Now is that on the QB being bad and regressing, or not playing for good coaching?
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
The Cowboys lost the SB to the Colts with Morton as their starting QB. They won a SB (Miami) with Staubach starting the next yr. The Cowboys were hardly a horrible team.

Revisionist history reigns supreme around here to support the DW4 narrative.
Sorry about that.....Staubach arrived on a very good Cowboys team in 1969 who had in fact lost to the Colts in the Super Bowl but just won their 1st NFC title behind Morton 1970. That season, Staubach got some starts but finished the 70' season with 2 TD and 8 INT. Landry stayed with Morton b/c he followed the gameplan while Staubach would improvise on broken plays. Morton started the 1971 season 3-2 when Staubach came in as the starter. Staubach went 1-0. Landry then alternated both QB's (literally every other play) in game 7 and they lost to fall to 4-3. Landry finally named Staubach the starter and they won out. What exactly did Staubach have to improve on based on his instant success and the fact he never changed his game as an improviser on broken plays? His immediate success was more like Mahomes since both were with excellent organizations from top to bottom. Both sat for a season behind successful QB's. Staubach got his shot and delivered a SB. Mahomes got his shot after an injury took the starting QB down and he got the Chiefs to the AFCCG. Again, has Watson been given such a cushy opportunity since he arrived to the Texans?
 
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theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
Sorry about that.....Staubach arrived on a very good Cowboys team in 1969 who had in fact lost to the Colts in the Super Bowl but just won their 1st NFC title behind Morton. Morton started the 1971 season 3-2 when Staubach came in as the starter. Staubach went 1-0. Landry then alternated both QB's (literally every other play) in game 7 and they lost to fall to 4-3. Landry finally named Staubach the starter and they won out. What exactly did Staubach have to improve on based on his instant success? His immediate success was more like Mahomes since both were with excellent organizations from top to bottom. Both sat for a season behind successful QB's. Staubach got his shot and delivered a SB. Mahomes got his shot after an injury took the starting QB down and he got the Chiefs to the AFCCG. Again, has Watson been given such a cushy opportunity since he arrived to the Texans?
This quick answer would be no.
Watson has been busy making lemon aid out of rat turds.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
This debate is endless. It’s the old question of what came first the chicken or the egg? Some say Watson would be better if BOB developed him better, others say Watson is not a good QB, others say it’s all situational, and he’d be a champion playing for another team. It’s all theory. Until these theories are tested, we’d never truly know. Tons of past QBs potential have been wasted playing on the wrong team or wrong situation.
100% agree.

The debate is pointless as we'll most likely never figure out the true answer. But this forum would be boring if we at least don't give our opinion. :)

My stance is we'd be foolish to give up on a QB that has shown alot of positive signs over the last 2.5 seasons. He's not a finished product and must continue to improve. But considering how vital it is to have a good QB, and how difficult it is to get a good QB, I want to make sure the Texans put in enough effort to help DW succeed before moving on from him.

In other words, I'd rather be the Bengals... that tried & tried to build a team around Andy Dalton. Opposed to the Bucs, that quickly gave up on Young, whom wasn't fairly put in a situation to succeed.
 
I know I'm not going to change your mind, and I'm fine with that. But I think Clowney is a difference maker. No, he's not a top 5 defender. No, he doesn't deserve to be one of the highest paid players in the league. No, he wasn't worth the #1 overall pick. No, he didn't live up to his expectations as a generational player. IMO, it doesn't change that he's still a good player in this league.

Clowney is a guy offenses have to plan for. During the week, they have to figure out how they're going to block him. Offenses are going to run away from him, offenses are going to double team him. Even if he doesn't get the sexy stats, if you have that kind of effect on the game, you're a difference maker. He was one of the most double-teamed players in the league... that means offenses game planned to take him out of the game. Offenses aren't worried about Jacob Martin or Gareon Conley.

I agree that his numbers have never lived up to the hype, but that doesn't change the fact he was a good player.
We actually agree more than you might think. My biggest issue with Clowney was never really his numbers or even that we took him at number 1. It was that he always came across as lazy to me and as someone that is getting by on his natural gifts and not actually trying to improve his game. You are completely right that he is a good player but he could have been a great player. Clowney to me just never seemed to live up to not so much the hype as just his potential. There were a lot of reports of him phoning it in during practice and even on the field he basically had just that one bull rush move. I keep mentioning his stats not because they are bad but because they are so alike. The first time I saw his yearly stats I was blown away because they were as close to being the exact same every year as you can get in the NFL. That tells me either the player has plateaued or he has reach a point that he isn't trying to improve and Clowney showed way to much promise to have plateaued.

Was watching an interview with him the other day and he actually seemed a lot more humble and talked about how he wants to improve himself as a player. Maybe this time with no team picking up his contract has shown him talent alone isn't enough, I hope it has for his sake. At this point in his career he will never be as great as I, personally, think he could have been but he can still be the keystone of a team's defense. Maybe not a team trying to win it all on defense but a team like Seattle or GB or, yes, the Texans that is mostly focusing on offense and just needs the defense to make those key stops and not put the team in a hole they can't climb out of.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So I am not comparing this to Watson at all, but I am just wondering so I can fully understand where you are coming from in this whole QB-coach-system debate.... what exactly is your theory on a guy like Ryan Tannehill? Both 1st round selections (pick 8 and Watson pick 12 respectively). Tannehill is considered a "bust" somewhat, then goes to a better coach and system in Tennessee and all of a sudden he gets a HUGE contract and is considered the reason they did so well last year. WRONG system and WRONG coaching in Miami. Now is that on the QB being bad and regressing, or not playing for good coaching?
Tannehill was always good, he didn't have weapons/OL around him and hurt his ACL twice. He staye
Sorry about that.....Staubach arrived on a very good Cowboys team in 1969 who had in fact lost to the Colts in the Super Bowl but just won their 1st NFC title behind Morton 1970. That season, Staubach got some starts but finished the 70' season with 2 TD and 8 INT. Landry stayed with Morton b/c he followed the gameplan while Staubach would improvise on broken plays. Morton started the 1971 season 3-2 when Staubach came in as the starter. Staubach went 1-0. Landry then alternated both QB's (literally every other play) in game 7 and they lost to fall to 4-3. Landry finally named Staubach the starter and they won out. What exactly did Staubach have to improve on based on his instant success and the fact he never changed his game as an improviser on broken plays? His immediate success was more like Mahomes since both were with excellent organizations from top to bottom. Both sat for a season behind successful QB's. Staubach got his shot and delivered a SB. Mahomes got his shot after an injury took the starting QB down and he got the Chiefs to the AFCCG. Again, has Watson been given such a cushy opportunity since he arrived to the Texans?
He improved from the pocket and was able to make the 2-3 improvised plays per game. Something DW4 still needs to do.
 
I know I'm not going to change your mind, and I'm fine with that. But I think Clowney is a difference maker. No, he's not a top 5 defender. No, he doesn't deserve to be one of the highest paid players in the league. No, he wasn't worth the #1 overall pick. No, he didn't live up to his expectations as a generational player. IMO, it doesn't change that he's still a good player in this league.

Clowney is a guy offenses have to plan for. During the week, they have to figure out how they're going to block him. Offenses are going to run away from him, offenses are going to double team him. Even if he doesn't get the sexy stats, if you have that kind of effect on the game, you're a difference maker. He was one of the most double-teamed players in the league... that means offenses game planned to take him out of the game. Offenses aren't worried about Jacob Martin or Gareon Conley.

I agree that his numbers have never lived up to the hype, but that doesn't change the fact he was a good player.
We don’t disagree as much as you think. Understand my issue with Clowney has never been about his numbers or even that he was drafted 1:1. It’s that for all his time in the NFL he has gotten by just on his natural gifts and not actually tried to improve as a player. There have been numerous reports of him phoning it in during practice and more than a few about Watt not liking him because he thought him lazy.

That’s my issue, Clowney is a good player, you’re right about that, but I think he could have been a great player. Maybe not Watt 2.0 but certainly among the elite. When I talk about his numbers it’s not that they are low that bothers me it’s that year to year they are almost exactly the same. Go compare his stats throughout his NFL career, they are as close as you can get in the NFL. That says to me a player has either plateaued or is not trying to improve and Clowney is way to gifted for that to be his limit. You can even see it on the field, when was the last time he used any move except that same bull rush move of his?

I saw a interview with him the other day and he talked about wanting to focus on improving as a player. That’s great and I hope not getting signed has shown him that you can’t skate by on talent alone. It’s to late for him to have the kind of legendary career I think he could have had but not to late for him to still be the keystone of a team’s defense. Not a team trying to win it all on defense but a team focused on offense that just needs the defense to make key stops and not let the other side hang 30 on them. Teams like Seattle, GB, Saints or, yes, even Texans.
 
Has DW progressed or regressed IYO?

Regressed is what I base my opinion on.

You can blame the regression on BOB and some of this may be true. However at some point all QB's have to take ownership of the results of their play.
I wouldn’t say he has regressed, he hasn’t improved, partially on accuracy, as much as I would like but I’m not seeing regression. Part of it is teams have figured out his weaknesses and good defenses take advantage of that. All QBs have them just most teams are then built to shore up those weaknesses.

Brady can’t run the ball but as a lighting release? Give him WRs and TEs that will get open in a heartbeat. Newton can’t throw but is built and runs like a RB? Tell the line to make a hole a have the WR do just enough to keep defenses honest. Manning is a broken shell of his former self? Build the team around the defense and make the offense’s job just to run down the clock.

I actually do think OB is trying to shore up Watson’s weaknesses and that’s why we invested so heavy in the line. See I have a theory, Watson has improved but it’s not in passing it’s in reading blitzes and avoiding them. I think this was a survival tactic, couldn't get better at throwing because he had to get better at escaping.

You could see it in the games where the line starters were there and were clicking. Watson looked like the 2017 Watson. Soon as Tunsil went down and then Howard we were back to what you consider regressed Watson. Hopefully this year with the line having time to gel and can maybe stay healthy we will get to see what Watson can do when he’s not running for his life.

If he still has issues then yes it’s on him.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Tannehill is considered a "bust" somewhat, then goes to a better coach and system in Tennessee and all of a sudden he gets a HUGE contract and is considered the reason they did so well last year. WRONG system and WRONG coaching in Miami.
How many coaches did he have in Miami? & didn't the Dolphins bring in his college coach to run his offense?

There were many circumstances in Miami that kept Tannehill from succeeding in Miami. Maybe the fact that he wasn't playing on Sundays lit a fire under him. Maybe having one foot out of the NFL set something off. Maybe knowing Rick Smith drafted Ben Jones pushed him to another level.

But Miami tried to make Tannehill work. It was more than the coach holding him back.
 
Exactly we all knows he has to improve in some areas. But like I stated several times before coaching has to put them in position to succeed. Other facets of the game plays very important part as well. But that dude refuses to address those things.

On the cool he doesn’t like Watson at all. So he’s going to always have something negative to say about him. I haven’t read one positive take from him concerning Watson.
Steel actually has addressed them just its not the answer most people want to hear, the answer of "It's all OB's fault", so they say he hasn't addressed them. Its why some of us, including Steel, were overjoyed for the Tunsil trade, as expensive as it was, because we knew the Swiss cheese for an Oline was part of the reason Watson was struggling. Hell, Steel was the only person that thought they should have massively overpayed for Trent Brown. He praised the Texans when they brought in one of the best QB coaches in the NFL and the man most credited for making Russel Wilson, the QB Watson is most compared to, a franchise QB and his sole job was to help Watson. Maybe it helped, maybe it didn't but you can't say they didn't try and that Steel wasn't on board with it. Hell Steel has even called for OB to change his entire scheme to be more like the Clemson one so it better fits Watson but all most took out of that is "Watson is stupid and needs a simpler system".

I'm not here to defend Steel and he doesn't need me to but fair is fair and if you are going to pass judgement the least you can do is make sure a person actually did the crime you are judging them for. Other than flat out saying that they need to fire OB and bring in the HC Watson wants, something that worked so well for Cleveland, I'm not sure what other facets he hasn't addressed. As far as reading one positive take on Watson I haven't read one positive take about OB from a lot of people on here but that's a popular stance to take so no one calls them out for it.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Steel actually has addressed them just its not the answer most people want to hear, the answer of "It's all OB's fault", so they say he hasn't addressed them. Its why some of us, including Steel, were overjoyed for the Tunsil trade, as expensive as it was, because we knew the Swiss cheese for an Oline was part of the reason Watson was struggling. Hell, Steel was the only person that thought they should have massively overpayed for Trent Brown. He praised the Texans when they brought in one of the best QB coaches in the NFL and the man most credited for making Russel Wilson, the QB Watson is most compared to, a franchise QB and his sole job was to help Watson. Maybe it helped, maybe it didn't but you can't say they didn't try and that Steel wasn't on board with it. Hell Steel has even called for OB to change his entire scheme to be more like the Clemson one so it better fits Watson but all most took out of that is "Watson is stupid and needs a simpler system".

I'm not here to defend Steel and he doesn't need me to but fair is fair and if you are going to pass judgement the least you can do is make sure a person actually did the crime you are judging them for. Other than flat out saying that they need to fire OB and bring in the HC Watson wants, something that worked so well for Cleveland, I'm not sure what other facets he hasn't addressed. As far as reading one positive take on Watson I haven't read one positive take about OB from a lot of people on here but that's a popular stance to take so no one calls them out for it.
I've said DW4 has great leadership skills. He's a fine person.

His skillset is lacking and he's regressed in 3 years. People either don't want to admit this, or want to blame this solely on BOB.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Steel actually has addressed them just its not the answer most people want to hear, the answer of "It's all OB's fault", so they say he hasn't addressed them. Its why some of us, including Steel, were overjoyed for the Tunsil trade, as expensive as it was, because we knew the Swiss cheese for an Oline was part of the reason Watson was struggling. Hell, Steel was the only person that thought they should have massively overpayed for Trent Brown. He praised the Texans when they brought in one of the best QB coaches in the NFL and the man most credited for making Russel Wilson, the QB Watson is most compared to, a franchise QB and his sole job was to help Watson. Maybe it helped, maybe it didn't but you can't say they didn't try and that Steel wasn't on board with it. Hell Steel has even called for OB to change his entire scheme to be more like the Clemson one so it better fits Watson but all most took out of that is "Watson is stupid and needs a simpler system".

I'm not here to defend Steel and he doesn't need me to but fair is fair and if you are going to pass judgement the least you can do is make sure a person actually did the crime you are judging them for. Other than flat out saying that they need to fire OB and bring in the HC Watson wants, something that worked so well for Cleveland, I'm not sure what other facets he hasn't addressed. As far as reading one positive take on Watson I haven't read one positive take about OB from a lot of people on here but that's a popular stance to take so no one calls them out for it.
Pass judgment huh man stop the silly crap. No he has not addressed those other facets of the game. Show me where he’s spoken positively about Watson. Dude doesn’t even speak positive about the McNairs .

Why don’t you speak up for Rico when a member says something to him concerning Bill O’Brien.
 
Pass judgment huh man stop the silly crap. No he has not addressed those other facets of the game. Show me where he’s spoken positively about Watson. Dude doesn’t even speak positive about the McNairs .

Why don’t you speak up for Rico when a member says something to him concerning Bill O’Brien.
If you can't be bothered to actually read what someone has posted then I'm not going to do your research for you. Also I'm pretty sure no one on here speaks positively of the McNairs but that not unusual for fans of a team to hate the owner of a team. As far as Rico is concerned I don't speak up for him because I don't see what he says. I show him the same respect he shows so many others on here. In other words I have him on ignore.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So I am not comparing this to Watson at all, but I am just wondering so I can fully understand where you are coming from in this whole QB-coach-system debate.... what exactly is your theory on a guy like Ryan Tannehill? Both 1st round selections (pick 8 and Watson pick 12 respectively). Tannehill is considered a "bust" somewhat, then goes to a better coach and system in Tennessee and all of a sudden he gets a HUGE contract and is considered the reason they did so well last year. WRONG system and WRONG coaching in Miami. Now is that on the QB being bad and regressing, or not playing for good coaching?
Tannehill was always good, he didn't have weapons/OL around him and hurt his ACL twice. He stayed healthy last yr and perfomed up to his capabilities. DW4's got a better OL and has had better weapons around him than Tannehill ever has had and this includes Tannehill's last yr in Tennessee. IMHO
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Pass judgment huh man stop the silly crap. No he has not addressed those other facets of the game. Show me where he’s spoken positively about Watson. Dude doesn’t even speak positive about the McNairs .

Why don’t you speak up for Rico when a member says something to him concerning Bill O’Brien.
Just look at the post above yours

The McNair's shouldn't be spoken about in a positive light. They're profiteers and Cletus is now running the show. Other than bringing football back to Houston (Which they've been handsomely rewarded for doing) what positive do you think I should be saying about them? In fact you shouldn't be saying anything positive about them because they are OK with BOB running the football operations and we aren't.
 
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OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Are you confusing Staubach with Aikman? Roger played on winning teams each of his 11 seasons, missing the playoffs once ('74) with an 8-6 record.
Naw.....just a good old fashion brain fart. I went back and corrected my original post and maybe I missed that part as well. My mind is somewhat numb. We just arrived in San Francisco.....left from Amsterdam. We'll be in Monterey, CA tomorrow. We're coming to Houston in June for a shorter than expected stay. I'm really hoping that the MLB season is getting started in June so we can possibly see a game while we're in town.
 

Mangler

All Pro
All of the stats DW4's put up suggests BOB has done an OK (Not great job of developing DW4.) All of those stats aren't just because DW4's great and BOB's a mouth breather.
Actually, the only reason Watson’s stats are what they are is because of his ability to escape and continuously make something out of nothing. Watson is making O’Brien appear to be a good coach, while O’Brien has done nothing to make Watson better. Hell, Tom Brady himself would probably look like a JAG playing here in Houston with O’Brien as his HC. I hope Kelly and Watson install an offense that’ll suit our QB cause those slow developing plays ain’t cutting it!
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Actually, the only reason Watson’s stats are what they are is because of his ability to escape and continuously make something out of nothing. Watson is making O’Brien appear to be a good coach, while O’Brien has done nothing to make Watson better. Hell, Tom Brady himself would probably look like a JAG playing here in Houston with O’Brien as his HC. I hope Kelly and Watson install an offense that’ll suit our QB cause those slow developing plays ain’t cutting it!
It's all DW4. LMAO

We're going to find out how good he is this yr
 

RGV82

Random guy
It's all DW4. LMAO

We're going to find out how good he is this yr
What do you mean we will find out how good he is this year? He has an entire new offense and new players and "new" OC that he has to adjust to, and that he will not have much of a chance to build a rapport with in OTAs. Why are you basing this upcoming year on how good he is vs. previous years or upcoming years?
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
What do you mean we will find out how good he is this year? He has an entire new offense and new players and "new" OC that he has to adjust to, and that he will not have much of a chance to build a rapport with in OTAs. Why are you basing this upcoming year on how good he is vs. previous years or upcoming years?
To be fair to SteelB, O'Brien has been quoted as saying this the "Deshaun Watson era," and according to the article below, they are building the team around him and his soon to be contract extension.

 

RGV82

Random guy
To be fair to SteelB, O'Brien has been quoted as saying this the "Deshaun Watson era," and according to the article below, they are building the team around him and his soon to be contract extension.

Not saying that’s wrong but if you rebuild an entire team he needs more than ONE year to adjust to the rebuild and prove himself.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
Not saying that’s wrong but if you rebuild an entire team he needs more than ONE year to adjust to the rebuild and prove himself.
I agree and fully believe Watson will be given that year and then some. O'Brien however is on a shortened leash. Just my opinion of course. This year I think is a test to see if OB can make his offense compatible to Watson's strengths and mask his deficiencies.
 

Mangler

All Pro
It's all DW4. LMAO

We're going to find out how good he is this yr
Dude, really? You’re over here giving Watson a deadline while demanding the organization and fan base hit the reset button for O’Brien year after year (since 2014) because, according to you, he had no say so and was being held back by Rick Smith. Somehow, this is year one when it’s actually year six, going on seven of the three year rebuild.
It’s Watson, who is yet to have a bad season, who must stand trial this season. Lol
 

RGV82

Random guy
I agree and fully believe Watson will be given that year and then some. O'Brien however is on a shortened leash. Just my opinion of course.
I agree with this completely. My only beef was him saying "We're going to find out how good he is this yr". If BOB is saying that he is rebuilding the entire offense around Watson, with all new players, and a new OC, "this yr" will not be a tell-all situation. It will take more than one year to find out "how good he is", assuming this is what the poster was referring to.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It's all DW4. LMAO

We're going to find out how good he is this yr
Not saying that’s wrong but if you rebuild an entire team he needs more than ONE year to adjust to the rebuild and prove himself.
Like you said
Why are you basing this upcoming year on how good he is vs. previous years or upcoming years?
2020 will be taken into consideration with the rest of his career.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I agree and fully believe Watson will be given that year and then some. O'Brien however is on a shortened leash. Just my opinion of course. This year I think is a test to see if OB can make his offense compatible to Watson's strengths and mask his deficiencies.
I don’t think so. If anything this year will determine how much ownership he’ll be getting. Cal is sold on BO’b.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Like you said


2020 will be taken into consideration with the rest of his career.
Yeah, exactly. Your post is way off topic. The poster said this upcoming year will tell how good he really is. He did not explain why THIS YEAR in specific will be a tell-all on how good he is, and not taking into consideration how long it takes to adjust off a "rebuild".
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Dude, really? You’re over here giving Watson a deadline while demanding the organization and fan base hit the reset button for O’Brien year after year (since 2014) because, according to you, he had no say so and was being held back by Rick Smith. Somehow, this is year one when it’s actually year six, going on seven of the three year rebuild.
It’s Watson, who is yet to have a bad season, who must stand trial this season. Lol
Maybe we should let Watson pick his own groceries since that’s the only way people (O’Brien) can be successful. I’m sure he wasn’t pining for Brandin Cooks over Hopkins.
 
Maybe we should let Watson pick his own groceries since that’s the only way people (O’Brien) can be successful. I’m sure he wasn’t pining for Brandin Cooks over Hopkins.
While you are correct it will be interesting to see what Watson is willing to give up to have a team that can win year after year. Rogers has always whined about not having a team around him but you never saw him be willing to take a pay cut, Brady wanted rings more than he did zeros on his paycheck so he played way below his value.

Granted with OB calling the shots it may not matter even if Watson played for a ham sandwich, but, as pointed out in other posts/threads even the best Coaches haven’t won when 15%+ of the salary goes to the QB.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What do you mean we will find out how good he is this year? He has an entire new offense and new players and "new" OC that he has to adjust to, and that he will not have much of a chance to build a rapport with in OTAs. Why are you basing this upcoming year on how good he is vs. previous years or upcoming years?
Because if healthy he will have the best OL he's ever had and talent at all of the skill positions that can take it to the house at any time.

Looks like you're in the excuse business. They will have time for the receivers/DW4 to get on the same page during TC.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Because if healthy he will have the best OL he's ever had and talent at all of the skill positions that can take it to the house at any time.

Looks like you're in the excuse business. They will have time for the receivers/DW4 to get on the same page during TC.
It takes more than one season for a QB to adjust to an entirely new offense, receivers, and OC, especially with no real OTAs or anything to build rapport.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Dude, really? You’re over here giving Watson a deadline while demanding the organization and fan base hit the reset button for O’Brien year after year (since 2014) because, according to you, he had no say so and was being held back by Rick Smith. Somehow, this is year one when it’s actually year six, going on seven of the three year rebuild.
It’s Watson, who is yet to have a bad season, who must stand trial this season. Lol
What does this post have to do with responding to my post?

If you cant see the difference between when RS was GM and how BOB's running the show (Whether you agree with what he's done or not) then you're not paying attention.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Because if healthy he will have the best OL he's ever had and talent at all of the skill positions that can take it to the house at any time.

Looks like you're in the excuse business. They will have time for the receivers/DW4 to get on the same page during TC.
Do you think Matthew Stafford is good enough to win a Super Bowl? Talented enough?
 
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