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2020 Free Agency

badboy

Hall of Fame
I think O'Brien knows that he has the same front seven with the exception of Reader that got him to the playoffs In 2019.
Vanderdoes or Dunn might not be Reader but could close down the middle. Iirc he has the same DBs as last
Season.
O'Brien may be thinking that a healthy Will Fuller can be his DeAndre Hopkins in stats this year. I know there's more involved than just stats but Fuller with only 49 receptions had 670 yards at 14 with three touchdowns.
Hop 104/1165 at 11 with 7 TDs.
As the go to WR, Fuller 98/1340 and IMO more than Hop's 7 TDs.
Stills should better Fuller's stats on outside and could double WF5's 3 TDs by playing 16 games.
Cobb better slot than Stills and at minimum I expect him to more than equal Stills TDs. If this true the WR group could be better.
TEs should be as good if not better depending on how Kelly uses them. Warring still ? mark but if half as good as hope was when drafted could be significant player this offense.
RB is the Twilight Zone where anything could happen. David should at least be better blocker than what we had and that makes Watson even better.

Logically our first 4 picks should be in no order WR, EDGE, RB and CB. OG and OT should be addressed after if not in free agency.
I am not disregarding Hopkins worth to the team or trade was not a crazy trade.
 
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leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I think O'Brien knows that he has the same front seven with the exception of Reader that got him to the playoffs In 2019.
Vanderdoes or Dunn might not be Reader but could close down the middle. Iirc he has the same DBs as last
Season.
O'Brien may be thinking that a healthy Will Fuller can be his DeAndre Hopkins in stats this year. I know there's more involved than just stats but Fuller with only 49 receptions had 670 yards at 14 with three touchdowns.
Hop 104/1165 at 11 with 7 TDs.
As the go to WR, Fuller 98/1340 and IMO more than Hop's 7 TDs.
Stills should better Fuller's stats on outside and could double WF5's 3 TDs by playing 16 games.
Cobb better slot than Stills and at minimum I expect him to more than equal Stills TDs. If this true the WR group could be better.
TEs should be as good if not better depending on how Kelly uses them. Warring still ? mark but if half as good as hope was when drafted could be significant player this offense.
RB is the Twilight Zone where anything could happen. David should at least be better blocker than what we had and that makes Watson even better.

Logically our first 4 picks should be in no order WR, EDGE, RB and CB. OG and OT should be addressed after if not in free agency.
I am not disregarding Hopkins worth to the team or trade was not a crazy trade.
The part you're leaving out is the availability of Hopkins and the tilted coverage. Not to mention the tough chain moving catches. I do agree that you can spread it around. You can have a bunch of #2 wrs and get production. As long as you have enough guys who can beat man coverage , the qb can adjust. With Hopkins, you knew he could beat man and sometimes doubles because of his catch radius.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
The part you're leaving out is the availability of Hopkins and the tilted coverage. Not to mention the tough chain moving catches. I do agree that you can spread it around. You can have a bunch of #2 wrs and get production. As long as you have enough guys who can beat man coverage , the qb can adjust. With Hopkins, you knew he could beat man and sometimes doubles because of his catch radius.
I think a 14 game healthy Fuller with prorated stats based on my post makes up for Nuk. His eye popping catches fun and make Dashaun look better but points are points and 7 TDs not enough for 3 year all pro wanting to almost double his money. I'm not looking for Fuller or a draft pick to supplant Hopkins but I am hoping that the overall wide receiver Corps will be better.
 

Mangler

All Pro
I think a 14 game healthy Fuller with prorated stats based on my post makes up for Nuk. His eye popping catches fun and make Dashaun look better but points are points and 7 TDs not enough for 3 year all pro wanting to almost double his money. I'm not looking for Fuller or a draft pick to supplant Hopkins but I am hoping that the overall wide receiver Corps will be better.
Fuller is WR1 material, and has all the tools to be a great one. His health is the only thing that has disappointed though. If they limit the amount of go routes they call per game, I think Fuller’s hamstring issues may be kept in check. Especially now that Hopkins ain’t here to demand double teams, O’Brien and Kelly better design game plans with more drags, slants, and crossing routes. We have the speed to make the plays, but seldom run these plays for some oddball reason!
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Fuller is WR1 material, and has all the tools to be a great one. His health is the only thing that has disappointed though. If they limit the amount of go routes they call per game, I think Fuller’s hamstring issues may be kept in check. Especially now that Hopkins ain’t here to demand double teams, O’Brien and Kelly better design game plans with more drags, slants, and crossing routes. We have the speed to make the plays, but seldom run these plays for some oddball reason!

2019 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001068247/article/injuries-will-fuller-hamstring-to-miss-several-weeks

Will Fuller underwent sports hernia surgery.
Fuller needed to repair a groin injury that slowed him down at times during the 2019 season. Fuller has been electric and a true difference-maker when healthy but his soft-tissue injuries have made him a boom-or-bust asset. The speedy receiver has vowed to investigate these soft-tissue problems this offseason. Hopefully Fuller can have a fully healthy training camp.
SOURCE: Houston Chronicle

He got through 7 games without hammy so..if recovered from groin, might have strong season??
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
O’Brien and Kelly better design game plans with more drags, slants, and crossing routes. We have the speed to make the plays, but seldom run these plays for some oddball reason!
You had the answer right there. The oddball reason is because OB and Kelly are designing the offense.


2019 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001068247/article/injuries-will-fuller-hamstring-to-miss-several-weeks

Will Fuller underwent sports hernia surgery.
Fuller needed to repair a groin injury that slowed him down at times during the 2019 season. Fuller has been electric and a true difference-maker when healthy but his soft-tissue injuries have made him a boom-or-bust asset. The speedy receiver has vowed to investigate these soft-tissue problems this offseason. Hopefully Fuller can have a fully healthy training camp.
SOURCE: Houston Chronicle

He got through 7 games without hammy so..if recovered from groin, might have strong season??
How many guys who deal with a lot of soft tissue injuries, ever really get over them? Especially the speedsters. It seems this is an issue that never really goes away with these guys.
 

Lucky

A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood
Staff member
Yep, I really dont like the Murray signing.

To be fair, I know very little about Murray.
How could you know much about Murray? He only played 33.8% of the Browns defensive snaps last season. 8 other Browns DBs had more snaps than Murray. That's right, O'Brien just paid $6 million/year for the Browns #9 DB.

Cal should fire Billy for that alone.
 

Lucky

A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood
Staff member
O'Brien may be thinking that a healthy Will Fuller can be his DeAndre Hopkins in stats this year. I know there's more involved than just stats but Fuller with only 49 receptions had 670 yards at 14 with three touchdowns.
Hop 104/1165 at 11 with 7 TDs.
As the go to WR, Fuller 98/1340 and IMO more than Hop's 7 TDs.
Stills should better Fuller's stats on outside and could double WF5's 3 TDs by playing 16 games.
Cobb better slot than Stills and at minimum I expect him to more than equal Stills TDs. If this true the WR group could be better.
Let me see if I'm following this correctly...

Fuller should be better than Hopkins
Stills should be better than Fuller
Cobb should be better than Stills

@OptimisticTexan , please transfer your handle to @badboy.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Let me see if I'm following this correctly...

Fuller should be better than Hopkins
Stills should be better than Fuller
Cobb should be better than Stills

@OptimisticTexan , please transfer your handle to @badboy.
Hopkins is gone but if he wasn't he would have a much better season than 2019 when he continually had to bail #4 out coming back for a pass or making those ridiculously "how did he do that"catches. The offensive line should be better for numerous reasons and you admit that. In turn, Watson will improve as the RB and slot WR should be better as I said. No, Fuller is not better than Hopkins but again as I said, he could be better than 2019 Hopkins was forced to be.

Yes Stills as WR 2 can be better than an eleven game 2019 Fuller was. Surely you can see that as a logical reasoning?

Randall Cobb 2019 Cowboy SWR had a much better season than Stills as our slot. No pie in sky just logical reasoning. You can focus on "Well Fuller misses games every year." I am hoping his groin is healed as hammy was not issue last year.

I may be optimistic and you might be Mopey. :worldpeace:
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
When Fuller is on the field he is seeing as much attention as Nuk is b/c his speed scares the bejesus out of them and he can beat you deep easier than Nuk can. The proof is in how our offense looks and operates when he’s on the field vs when he’s not. The Buffalo playoff game when WFV didn’t play the offense looked sluggish... Nuk took a whole 1/2 to get untracked as he was mostly being singled up by white..more than a few times he was singled up with Kevin Johnson. He’s a great possession WR, but no ones scared of him

that 1st TD in the KC playoff game...made possible by Fuller and his action on that fake bubble screen. They remembered how he repeatedly torched them in the 1st match up...even though he did drop like 3 TD’s.

Nuk’s the type that when u look up at the end of the season, the numbers will look pretty good...but you won’t be able to remember a single game that he dominated and was unstoppable.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I'm certain I'll need some strong Battle Red Koolaid to buy all that.

Mopey? Is that the 8th Dwarf that was kicked out of NRG because he screamed "O"Brien you ******* suck!"?
LOL. Mopey is my friend who is always negative. Great job but lost his interest. Huge house but lives in it alone. Wanted big yard but has to mow it and trim trees..dang Association! Needs to lose few pounds but that means he has to ease up on booze, exercise a bit...
Wants a girlfriend but if they expect more than coffee for date he flees to the hills. No matter if I give him a compliment or point out a strong point the result is "but..blah blah blah".
 

Lucky

A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood
Staff member
LOL. Mopey is my friend who is always negative. Great job but lost his interest. Huge house but lives in it alone. Wanted big yard but has to mow it and trim trees..dang Association! Needs to lose few pounds but that means he has to ease up on booze, exercise a bit...
Wants a girlfriend but if they expect more than coffee for date he flees to the hills. No matter if I give him a compliment or point out a strong point the result is "but..blah blah blah".
Sounds like he belongs in an Alanis Morrisette song.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
When Fuller is on the field he is seeing as much attention as Nuk is b/c his speed scares the bejesus out of them and he can beat you deep easier than Nuk can. The proof is in how our offense looks and operates when he’s on the field vs when he’s not. The Buffalo playoff game when WFV didn’t play the offense looked sluggish... Nuk took a whole 1/2 to get untracked as he was mostly being singled up by white..more than a few times he was singled up with Kevin Johnson. He’s a great possession WR, but no ones scared of him

that 1st TD in the KC playoff game...made possible by Fuller and his action on that fake bubble screen. They remembered how he repeatedly torched them in the 1st match up...even though he did drop like 3 TD’s.

Nuk’s the type that when u look up at the end of the season, the numbers will look pretty good...but you won’t be able to remember a single game that he dominated and was unstoppable.
I will add that Fuller will now be the first option and hopefully not locked in by Watson on Hop as I lock in on fried chicken!
 

Lucky

A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood
Staff member
Nuk’s the type that when u look up at the end of the season, the numbers will look pretty good...but you won’t be able to remember a single game that he dominated and was unstoppable.
No, I can't remember Hopkins ever having a good game. How did he become 3 time All Pro anyway? Crazy.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
No, I can't remember Hopkins ever having a good game. How did he become 3 time All Pro anyway? Crazy.
lucky my friend, that is not what he said. He said dominating. Of course we all get use to players being very good and then it seems the norm. Hop had some of those plays I described but for whatever reason he avg about 9 TDs after first two seasons when AJ was balling. That is not near enough for 3 year all pro.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Hopkins is gone but if he wasn't he would have a much better season than 2019 when he continually had to bail #4 out coming back for a pass or making those ridiculously "how did he do that"catches. The offensive line should be better for numerous reasons and you admit that. In turn, Watson will improve as the RB and slot WR should be better as I said. No, Fuller is not better than Hopkins but again as I said, he could be better than 2019 Hopkins was forced to be.

Yes Stills as WR 2 can be better than an eleven game 2019 Fuller was. Surely you can see that as a logical reasoning?

Randall Cobb 2019 Cowboy SWR had a much better season than Stills as our slot. No pie in sky just logical reasoning. You can focus on "Well Fuller misses games every year." I am hoping his groin is healed as hammy was not issue last year.

I may be optimistic and you might be Mopey. :worldpeace:
How’s our RB going to be better?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
No, I can't remember Hopkins ever having a good game. How did he become 3 time All Pro anyway? Crazy.
Nuk is supposed to put up the numbers he does. He is targeted twice as much as the next WR behind him...which would be WFV. Stills has “good” games. The type of Dominance I expect from a 3 time all-pro is about more than the numbers you put up. like a Tyreke Hill...like a Micheal Thomas...like an Antonio Brown and Andre Johnson in his prime. Nuk has always struck me as a slightly better version of Anquan Boldin and I don’t think he’s ever really struck outright FEAR in defenses like those other guys I named above.

Sure he’s better than WFV..but that’s mostly b/c Nuk has always played while WFV has always been injured. But the WFV effect and our big play capability is very apparent in our offense when he has been able to play....not so much with Nuk. If WFV could ever stay healthy I have no doubt he could put up as good or better numbers than Nuk...im not optimistic that we get him for a clean 16...but he played 11 last year..if we can get him for a clean 14, I’d be fine with that...we shall see how that goes this year.
 
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RGV82

Random guy
How is this team prepared if Fuller only make it through 4 to 6 games?
We are not. Even if Fuller plays the entire season healthy we are not prepared at WR. Getting rid of Hopkins is impossible to recover from in 1 season. Hopefully we can do something in the draft. I will be scared going into the season if our WR core remains as is.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
Hopkins is gone but if he wasn't he would have a much better season than 2019 when he continually had to bail #4 out coming back for a pass or making those ridiculously "how did he do that"catches.
This what you expect from an All-Pro WR. Some of these receptions that you stated as bailing out are when #4 was running around for his life. They were not always when there was a clean pocket or ample time to throw.

Hopkins has sure hands.

while

Fuller has butterfingers.
Exactly, Nuk's large catch radius is a positive that makes him reliable. Fuller has improved but he will never have the hands of Hopkins. Plus, in his short career, its safe to assume he will never be as reliable based on availability.

Nuk is supposed to put up the numbers he does. He is targeted twice as much as the next WR behind him...which would be WFV. Stills has “good” games. The type of Dominance I expect from a 3 time all-pro is about more than the numbers you put up. like a Tyreke Hill...like a Micheal Thomas...like an Antonio Brown and Andre Johnson in his prime. Nuk has always struck me as a slightly better version of Anquan Boldin and I don’t think he’s ever really struck outright FEAR in defenses like those other guys I named above.

Sure he’s better than WFV..but that’s mostly b/c Nuk has always played while WFV has always been injured. But the WFV effect and our big play capability is very apparent in our offense when he has been able to play....not so much with Nuk. If WFV could ever stay healthy I have no doubt he could put up as good or better numbers than Nuk...im not optimistic that we get him for a clean 16...but he played 11 last year..if we can get him for a clean 14, I’d be fine with that...we shall see how that goes this year.
Just responding to a couple of things here.
- The variable(s) in the comparisons to some of these other WRs output is an WR friendly offense designed by superior play callers and arguably better QBs.
- You state that you expect more dominance out of an All-Pro WR but Nuk has had very similar outputs to Michael Thomas. Again Saints offense vs Texans offense is more of a testimony to Nuk
- WFV helps the offense by stretching the field, understood. By the very nature it opens open the offense which should help everyone else. That's the downside of the offense and not a detriment on Nuk's abilities. Let's not forget Nuk was already established before WFV arrived, so his numbers are not truly dependent on WFV. Nuk, while not having nowhere the physical gifts of AJ, has produced nearly at the same rate.

If its true that Bill just didn't feel comfortable with paying Nuk for whatever team reasons, then so be it. The offense whether good or bad will definitely be different. I just don't think there was a free agent WR that would help in off-setting the loss. If the offense is all around better in helping the team to be successful in the W-L column then its all good.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
This what you expect from an All-Pro WR. Some of these receptions that you stated as bailing out are when #4 was running around for his life. They were not always when there was a clean pocket or ample time to throw.





Exactly, Nuk's large catch radius is a positive that makes him reliable. Fuller has improved but he will never have the hands of Hopkins. Plus, in his short career, its safe to assume he will never be as reliable based on availability.



Just responding to a couple of things here.
- The variable(s) in the comparisons to some of these other WRs output is an WR friendly offense designed by superior play callers and arguably better QBs.
- You state that you expect more dominance out of an All-Pro WR but Nuk has had very similar outputs to Michael Thomas. Again Saints offense vs Texans offense is more of a testimony to Nuk
- WFV helps the offense by stretching the field, understood. By the very nature it opens open the offense which should help everyone else. That's the downside of the offense and not a detriment on Nuk's abilities. Let's not forget Nuk was already established before WFV arrived, so his numbers are not truly dependent on WFV. Nuk, while not having nowhere the physical gifts of AJ, has produced nearly at the same rate.

If its true that Bill just didn't feel comfortable with paying Nuk for whatever team reasons, then so be it. The offense whether good or bad will definitely be different. I just don't think there was a free agent WR that would help in off-setting the loss. If the offense is all around better in helping the team to be successful in the W-L column then its all good.
I can get with most of this.....

But, you can’t boast about Nuk being a 3 time all pro and then scream bloody murder about the other “variables” those others i named had in dominating games in ways Nuk really doesn't. You can't explain it away saying that they supposedly played in “WR friendly” offenses with better play callers. Especially since the offenses that Nuk had become that 3 time all-pro in were all in the same offense and under the same play caller.....and b/c of the in and out nature of the others around him, That also pretty much guaranteed that he’d see a steady 150 plus targets every year which is also consistent with the others i named. It also damn near guarantees you're going to put up decent numbers........even if your qb is relative trash (Brock Oz). IOW's it didn't really seem to be the offense or the playcallers that set those guys apart from Nuk b/c everything Nuk recieves lines up with all the rest of the top guys & in some instances lines up better for him than the others. Nuk has never really had to share targets with another guy capable of putting up monster numbers...not very long anyway. His status as an 3X all pro..that's what he's already done...i.e. in the past. How many more of those types of seasons do you think Nuk still has in him?

For 1, there aren't many WR's who have gone 1st team All Pro 4 or more times...Jerry Rice, Antonio Brown, Moss and TO are the only guys i know of. All of those guys were superior athletically to Nuk. I'm gonna say that the list of guys who went all-pro at age 30 or more..probably the same group of guys.

& for the record, i think he's gonna put up pretty good numbers in Arizona.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Titans were in the AFCCG & they didn’t have Nuk.

I hate that we traded him I hate we got nothing for him. & if you didn’t know, I hate that Bo’b is the shot caller for this team. But life goes on.

It would be a mistake to go into the season with the WRs we have now. But yeah, probably going to happen.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Since this is free agency thread and Jernigan probably not worth his own thread, might as well mention we get a space eater on the cheap and rebound of injuries, 2018 herniated disc in neck, 2019 foot. Cartwheels, er no, would have preferred Wolfe

After three years in Philly, Timmy Jernigan is heading to a new home.

The defensive tackle is signing a one-year deal with the Houston Texans worth up to $3.75 million, the DT gets $1.25 million guaranteed on the deal.
A second-round pick by the Ravens in the 2014 NFL Draft, Jernigan spent three seasons in Baltimore before being traded to Philadelphia in 2017, where he played three seasons for the Eagles. In 10 games last season, the 27-year-old compiled 10 tackles and two sacks.
In Houston, the space-eater will help fill the void left by D.J. Reader, who signed a big-money contract in Cincinnati.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Since this is free agency thread and Jernigan probably not worth his own thread, might as well mention we get a space eater on the cheap and rebound of injuries, 2018 herniated disc in neck, 2019 foot. Cartwheels, er no, would have preferred Wolfe

After three years in Philly, Timmy Jernigan is heading to a new home.

The defensive tackle is signing a one-year deal with the Houston Texans worth up to $3.75 million, the DT gets $1.25 million guaranteed on the deal.
A second-round pick by the Ravens in the 2014 NFL Draft, Jernigan spent three seasons in Baltimore before being traded to Philadelphia in 2017, where he played three seasons for the Eagles. In 10 games last season, the 27-year-old compiled 10 tackles and two sacks.
In Houston, the space-eater will help fill the void left by D.J. Reader, who signed a big-money contract in Cincinnati.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Since this is free agency thread and Jernigan probably not worth his own thread, might as well mention we get a space eater on the cheap and rebound of injuries, 2018 herniated disc in neck, 2019 foot. Cartwheels, er no, would have preferred Wolfe

After three years in Philly, Timmy Jernigan is heading to a new home.

The defensive tackle is signing a one-year deal with the Houston Texans worth up to $3.75 million, the DT gets $1.25 million guaranteed on the deal.
A second-round pick by the Ravens in the 2014 NFL Draft, Jernigan spent three seasons in Baltimore before being traded to Philadelphia in 2017, where he played three seasons for the Eagles. In 10 games last season, the 27-year-old compiled 10 tackles and two sacks.
In Houston, the space-eater will help fill the void left by D.J. Reader, who signed a big-money contract in Cincinnati.
He has a thread that was created on the day of the signing.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Titans were in the AFCCG & they didn’t have Nuk.

I hate that we traded him I hate we got nothing for him. & if you didn’t know, I hate that Bo’b is the shot caller for this team. But life goes on.

It would be a mistake to go into the season with the WRs we have now. But yeah, probably going to happen.
They will add another WR at some point in the draft.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Not true Fuller for last two seasons: 2018 71% catches of targets and 2019 69% of greatly increased targets.
Supposedly hands were an issue predraft. There was a lot of talk about it here, so much that I didn't want him. Then I watched his combine. You could tell he worked hard those few weeks. He didn't drop anything & looked like he had "soft" hands.

Still didn't want him, but was happy the Texans got him (seemed like they wanted him, to move up one spot to make sure they got him).

If he could stay healthy, I'd be a big fan.
 

mws

Waterboy
No, I can't remember Hopkins ever having a good game. How did he become 3 time All Pro anyway? Crazy.
Yeah it's flat out amazing the kind of stats Hopkins managed to rack up without having any good games. Here's an excerpt from a PR article put out by the Texans on 1/3/2020 after he was named an All-Pro First Team for the third year in a row.

"Hopkins finished the 2019 regular season with 104 receptions for 1,165 yards (11.2 avg.), seven touchdowns and 68 receiving first downs in 15 games played. He tied for the AFC lead in receptions and led the conference in receiving first downs. Hopkins posted five games with 100-or-more receiving yards, which tied for the AFC lead and tied for fourth in the NFL. He has recorded at least five receptions in 18 games in a row dating back to Week 15 of 2018, which marks the longest active streak in the NFL, the longest streak in franchise history and ties for the fifth-longest streak in NFL history.

Hopkins became just the third player in NFL history to post over 600 receptions, 8,500 receiving yards and 50 receiving touchdowns in his first seven seasons. He also became the second-youngest player to reach 600 career receptions and the third-youngest to 8,000 career receiving yards. Hopkins tied for the second-most receptions (632) by a player through his first seven seasons in NFL history and tied for the third-most consecutive seasons with at least 800 receiving yards to start a career in NFL history (seven), trailing Jerry Rice (12) and Gary Clark (nine)."
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Blocking for Watson and better receiver than Hyde.
Blocking for Watson? Who do we have that is better at pass blocking for Watson than Hyde? We sure as hell aren’t a better running team now. He’ll we didn’t even utilize the Johnson we had. What makes you think it’s going to be different this year?
 


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