GP
Go Texans!
I feel the same way.
That's why I think the worst three teams should be in a lottery to get picks 1 through 3.
Until then, a team like the Colts will intentionally bomb every game but 1 or 2 in order to get the overall top pick.
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1st preseason evaluation
- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
I feel the same way.
That's why I think the worst three teams should be in a lottery to get picks 1 through 3.
Until then, a team like the Colts will intentionally bomb every game but 1 or 2 in order to get the overall top pick.
Ridiculous. Were the Texans bombing every game when we went 2-14? Teams suck sometimes. It happens. That Colts team was awful, and everyone knew it as soon as Manning left.
Fans just like conspiracy theories though. As a hockey fan, every year I see the same thing around the draft. And there is a lottery! It does not help that much, except occasionally screw a bad team
For example, this past year the Blue Jackets sucked hard. They always suck, but they were the worst team in the league this year. Thanks to the lottery, they did not get the 1st overall pick but the second. And the team who won the lottery picked 1st overall for the 3rd season in a row.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
I'm thinking this is a preseason thing. Once they get the hang of it, there will likely be a call/buzz from upstairs if there is anything questionable to look at after a TO. I remember people complaining about the same thing last preseason on the scoring plays (all of them were reviewed), but once regular season started, they mostly only reviewed the ones I wanted reviewed.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Well, the thing is that if there's a review on every turnover then the refs should stand around pulling their puds and letting the teams get lined up before realizing they have to do a review. They should just hustle and get their butts over to the peep show and get it over with as soon as possible.
Granted, it would be better if a Review Official looked over the replay and then buzzed down whether to go ahead and play or whether the ump should take a look but either way, it doesn't need to take as long as it has been.
Wolf
100% Texan
Yep. Like the annoncers joked. It took 5 minutes to put 3seconds back on the clock.(think it was after the Schaub int)
GP
Go Texans!
But with a lottery system it's still left to chance, not an AUTOMATIC GIMMEE that you get the first pick in the draft.
You need your head examined if you think a team like the Colts deserved to be able to trash their whole damn season and end up with the best QB prospect since the last damn time they got the best QB prospect.
What the Colts did last year, by starting a hack QB for all but a handful of games...led by a hack head coach who stood there like a good little boy and watched it all fall apart (like it was designed to do, btw) was beyond unethical. Yet they get rewarded with the top pick.
There has got to be a way to make the draft less likely to be gamed. And the Colts sure as hell gamed it the whole way. Oh well, what goes around comes around. Something will happen that will cost the Colts one way or another, consistently, because those sorts of dick moves always backfire in the end.
But to say so defiantly that a lottery system is wrong, when we have the greatest reason WHY a lottery system is better than just handing a gift to the "worst" team based on record alone, is what is ridiculous. That ball might have bounced for the wrong team three times-in-a-row but that's the ball bouncing and not a gimme draft pick year in and year out. And that counts for something. It should keep teams honest and show them that it's not a given that they'll get the top pick. Increase their odds? Yes. A gimmee pick? No.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
So what is there to challenge now?
I dont think they tanked. Just look at the team's roster- it sucked. Could they have won more games? Possibly. But the bounces did not go that way. Caldwell was actually a decent coach, setting a rookie coach record in wins his first year.
Someone has to come in last. It was the Colts last year. It just sucks for us because we go from seeing Manning twice a year forever, to seeing Luck (who, while just a rookie, looks hella good) twice a year forever. But **** happens.
That said, I am not saying that a lottery system is stupid. All I am saying is that it does screw legitimately bad teams, and it does not reduce accusations of tanking.
Complete/incomplete passes. And ball placement.
Wolf
100% Texan
I don't know.. just NFL rules now says they have to review every turnover.
I think it sucks the way they are doing it. A big play just happened and momentum swings a bit with emotions high and then both teams have to wait aprox 2-3 minutes (if not more) for the review to be confirmed that a TO took place.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
I didn't like it either but I'll give him that it's been 8 months. What I liked seeing was how he's still got the roll out down ice cold. He's certainly appeared a little slower but still faking everybody out as if the injury never happened. Honestly, he got hit solid a couple times and I kind of liked that. Infantrycak said it best when he talked of his focus and determination. Schaub really is the quintessential professional when it comes to keeping it together. I think that gets underrated about him.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Caldwell was a horrible head coach.. (and hell never be given that title again) just ask any Colts fan. He was spineless, had zero leadership, and stood on the sidelines with a deer in headlights expression for the entire season (ala 2005 Capers, but worse). He was so bad he got a HOF GM fired. The guy was just a figure head who was along for the ride and when Peyton went down the bus crashed in the ditch.
Even if that is the case (I wont claim to be an expert on NFL coaching. Maybe decent was overselling him, but he was hardly the worst coach of all time), it is not like Caldwell was brought in to sink the Colts' season so they could land Luck. He had been the coach for 2 years, years where they made the playoffs. Their star player, the player they had built their team around, went down, and they sucked. It would happen to just about any team.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
- Foster arrived in Carolina but he left his brain in Houston. Cut off his outlet pattern, nice run but stripped. No biggie yet.
- Schaub looks like he's going to play a bit scared in close quarters. A few plays I saw a kinda "hot potato" get-rid-of-the-ball reaction to feeling defensive pressures. Will monitor that.
- Mix up on set or pattern between Schaub/Lestar/KeyMart in the red zone -- looked like it was on Lestar.
- KJ nice technique/coverage on Steve Smith at the goal line.
- J.Jo got beat off the line in red zone, but Cam missed the throw.
- James Casey & Garrett Graham two very nice blocks to spring Trindon on the return TD. Panthers #81 almost caught him.
- We'll be seeing end-arounds with KeyMart this year. (Never liked end-arounds for some reason.)
- Schaub's INT -- looked like he expected Foster to curl left in front of the LB & Foster curled right? Stood in there well, took the hit.
- Carolina O-line just looks lost in pass pro multiple times.
- Middle of the 2s O-line good run blocking. Ben Jones looks the part.
- TJ doesn't lead KeyMart in end zone. Missed chance.
- Mercilus looks like a cat ready to pounce. Nice technique on the sack.
- Braman playing everywhere, fighting/scuffling ... takes nothing off anyone. He's better.
- Alan Ball playing the receiver all the way again & again. Sure penalty. Should've been coached up by now. Better against the run.
- Coach Wade chewing on Coach Vance & officials.
- Maehl alligator arms. Came back with first down catch over the middle.
- Garrett Graham, nice game. Took a gut shot & held on, then 20 yard pattern reception, then first down.
- Lestar looks better against the 2s & 3s.
- Butler pass pro looks a bit questionable.
- Casey playing too late into the game. Bench time, coach.
- Brooks has good feet. Needs work, but he has the tools.
- Fangupo makes a play chasing down backside screen! Almost gets the sack Braman got. Recovers a fumble. He's got some quick.
- Tossup between Forsett & Grimes. Rather Grimes at the goal line. The kid has talent.
- Cody White needs a smaller helmet or tighter chinstrap.
- Coach Kubiak sweatin' everything down to the last play. Raising the bar, imo.
- Bullock needs about 8 more yards of carry on kickoffs. Kicks a slow spinning ball, knuckles a bit. 52 yarder might win him the job right there.
BullBlitz
Section 331
Some franchises get lucky? I guess. And other franchises pick David Carr instead of Julius Peppers or Dwight Freeney. We could have been lucky too, if we were better at evaluating players.
He just threw another one. Looks like they upgraded at qb.
Don't be overly impressed.
Remember the Rams finished 2-14.
They were in the bottom half (22 I think) in total D, 25th against the pass, 27th or so in scoring D, and 31st against the run. They fired last year's D coordinator and hired Greg Williams ...and he probably won't see an NFL sideline again. Well, not as long as Sheriff Goodell is around.
I'd say the Colts & Luck went up against the equivalent of our 2s or 3s.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Homer spin? I was extremely impressed. Dude was more than "as advertised".
Perhaps.
But one must consider the competition when making one's evaluation. And the Colts did play a 2-14 team that looked like a 2-14 team.
I mean the other two Colt QBs went 11 of 14 for 135 yds. The Rams couldn't stop the third string.
Indy goes to Pittsburgh next Sunday night. And the Ones should go the whole first qtr instead of two series. If Luck fares well against the Steeler D, THEN I'll be impressed.
GP
Go Texans!
You're being naive if you think the Colts didn't tank. The roster just sucked? I can't even remember the name of the guy they put at QB for roughly 90% of the season. Orlovsky was the better QB but did they play him? Uh yeah, they did...against US! LOL. But that was after they had virtually locked down the #1 overall pick. Might as well start Orlovsky vs. the Texans that late in the season to try and stick it to us on the way to their #1 overall pick. And they DID. %$#&!
To say that the Colts owner did not throw in the towel to get Luck is borderline....well, I won't say it. It goes against common sense to think the Colts just happened to suck badly enough to get the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning was the best QB prospect. No coincidences in big boy life, my friend. None.
The Colts owner is a more quiet slime ball version of Bud Adams, IMO. He tanked. It takes more effort to prove he didn't, especially with Caldwell at HC and some random dude at QB all year long. That doesn't speak of a team trying to get better, does it? Well, sort of...getting better via becoming as bad as you can be in one single season.
Exactly. There was ZERO moves made by the Colts to get better.
They had all off-season, knowing Manning was not going to be ready for 2011, and yet they put in some guy I cannot remember as QB. He was like a cross between Billy Joe Toliver and Jeff George but with the talent of Barney Fife. And throw in the superstar HC named Caldwell. LOL, it was awful. On purpose.
You give way too much grace to the Colts. In fact, IMO, you're underselling their ability to read the writing on the wall...to know when to bail on Manning and when to kick it into overdrive for the Suck For Luck campaign.
The owner calculated this. He's not just wringing his hands and saying "Well, by golly, if we suck we suck and we get Luck...but we are damn sure going to try and win every game we can!" LOL. It's farcical to think the Colts owner had not premeditated the move to be awful. He had THE perfect excuse to suck...by virtue of Manning's neck injury. The owner USED Manning the whole way as a smokescreen, always keeping it a mystery if Manning would be back in time or not. The whole Colts team was duped, led to believe that mayyyyybe Manning could return in time to lead one last charge for the AFC South title. I'm not imagining this, it's what was on all the media and all the shows. The Colts systematically did things, in a calculating manner, to ensure that the worst version they could field was put ONTO the field.
And it sticks in my craw. It should stick in every NFL fans' craw, too.
I wonder at what point some independent thinker has the balls to do a systematic and illustrative list of the tactics the Colts used in the Suck For Luck campaign? It'd make the perfect Grantland article, IMO.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
It's pro ball now...Fisher threw some complex stuff at him early and he had some composure...off the chart composure with overload gaps and blitzes. Fisher loaded the box and he handled it like a seasoned pro with no panic and making excellent choices. Anyone critical of Luck today can only be using homerlogic if you ask me. Yeah the Rams couldn't stop the third string but it was the Rams third string also.
GP
Go Texans!
Manning himself was either in on the gig, too, or he was also duped by the owner.
I want to think that Manning would be above such an unethical move by the owner, though. I think, honestly, that the owner even toyed with Manning and did/said things that he knew would string Manning along for as long as Manning could be strung along.
That one point, in the weeks leading up to when the Colts had to decide on keeping or cutting Manning...when The Foerhead got testy and said some hot-tempered things about the owner (via the media), and then he and the owner met and they sort of "worked out their differences" in private....I think THAT was when Manning knew he had been royally lied to.
There was a part of Manning that wanted to believe that he was on equal footing as Andre Luck and that there stood a chance the Colts would get Peyton back into the reg season and let him prove that he could stay as QB.
But after the end of the reg season, Peyton, IMO, knew he had been jobbed hardcore.
The Colts are dirty. They just do it a bit more under-the-radar, IMO.
I want to think that Manning would be above such an unethical move by the owner, though. I think, honestly, that the owner even toyed with Manning and did/said things that he knew would string Manning along for as long as Manning could be strung along.
That one point, in the weeks leading up to when the Colts had to decide on keeping or cutting Manning...when The Foerhead got testy and said some hot-tempered things about the owner (via the media), and then he and the owner met and they sort of "worked out their differences" in private....I think THAT was when Manning knew he had been royally lied to.
There was a part of Manning that wanted to believe that he was on equal footing as Andre Luck and that there stood a chance the Colts would get Peyton back into the reg season and let him prove that he could stay as QB.
But after the end of the reg season, Peyton, IMO, knew he had been jobbed hardcore.
The Colts are dirty. They just do it a bit more under-the-radar, IMO.
GP
Go Texans!
I think that's fair, too.
The Rams are awful, and WILL BE awful.
We returned a kickoff for a TD using Trindon Holliday...it's not like we're the world beaters in the area of kickoff returns. Sometimes, a person or a collection of persons has the breaks go their way.
If Luck spanks the Steelers and throws all over them in impressive form, I'll reevaluate my criticism of the Panic Button Squad. Right now, he was facing the Rams and the initial TD throw was a RB dump off that the RUNNING BACK took to the house on an awful Rams defense.
Looking at our boys in Steel Blue and Battle Red...I'd like to think they got the right stuff to make Luck look a little more human than the Rams did. Wade Phillips is no rookie d-coord. He will have the players on their toes for Andrew Luck. There will be lots of tape to go on.
Mark Sanchez looked like a beast, too, early on. Then the league figured him out. He hasn't been the same since. D-coordinators live for this. Especially SOB.
I don't recall saying anything "critical of Luck". I just said consider who they were up against. He certainly took advantage of a sucky defense, I'm not denying that. But I'm not going Ga-Ga over a middle screen where Brown did all the work (think about it, Luck's ball was in the air all of five yards on that 60+ yd TD). Now the second TD WAS impressive. Looked off the safety and threw a strike to Collie. BUT he had all day.
All I'm saying is let me see him do that to the Steelers then I'll be impressed.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I was completely off my game! I wasn't feeling well and my AC went out!!
Just turrible!!!!!!
.*EDIT*
I did make it to "the Colorado" which picked things up a bit!
utahmark
markbeth
Vinny
shiny happy fan
he would have had 3 td's if that long pass over the middle didn't end up on the 1 yard line. He also had a few passes dropped. Dude looked good, I ain't taking nuttin' away from him today....props to him. I envy the Colts.
utahmark
markbeth
His offensive line was'nt blocking very well the first couple of series. He did'nt have anytime at all. He managed not to do anything to hurt the team. He avoided a couple sacks, threw the ball away when he needed to. Then when he got a little bit of time he marched down the field 3 times against an nfl defense in his first game ever. Looked pretty good to me. This same colts offense scored more than 21 points 3 times last year without him. He led them to 21 points in the first half of his first nfl game.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I disagree if only to the extent that I think there's still room to wait and see on this. It's the Rams. Sure it's Jeff Fisher coaching the Rams but it's the Rams. Jeff Fisher may have thrown some complex stuff at him early but Jeff Fisher didn't magically turn their defense into something formidable. The people who have to execute that are just as "Week 1 of preseason" as Luck is and while he's a rookie, they were chicken crap last year. They didn't become chicken salad in one off-season.
Luck did very well this time out. I'll need to see him do it a few more times before I'm ready to anoint him the second coming of Peyton.
Obviously they upgraded at QB over what they had last year .... but Luck is no Peyton Manning.
The first TD was made possible by the blocking downfield , it was stellar - I could have scored on that one.
He did make some good throws but that Rams D was atrocious. A highschool team might give them a run for their money.
Luck might be a solid NFL QB but again , he aint no Peyton Manning .... He's closer to TJ Yates at this point.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I guess the job is left to me once again:
Shelley Smith was an animal yesterday! He played most of the game at LG and was absolutely dominant throughout. Barring injury, I don't see how they can keep him off the field. He has to at least be the backup interior lineman on game days. The guy is very, very good.
Shelley Smith was an animal yesterday! He played most of the game at LG and was absolutely dominant throughout. Barring injury, I don't see how they can keep him off the field. He has to at least be the backup interior lineman on game days. The guy is very, very good.
I can't comment on it because I didn't watch him specifically.
But I hope he is the real deal.
You are upset they did not play Dan "runoutoftheendzoneforasafety" Orlovsky? Orlovsky at the time was a known quantity. Painter was (and still is) a young QB. They might as well see what he has.
As for Manning- he was not ruled out until Sept 7th. They thought he would be able to play this season. Now, was it a bad decision to have no contingency plan? Yep, but Manning had been an iron man thus far.
Could there have been a conspiracy? Yes. Is it likely? Nope. Everyone got fired. People would not willingly tank and jeopardize their careers. Now if the FO remained unchanged after such a season, that would be a red flag.
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
Do you remember at what time he came into the game? I might go back and watch it again and wouldn't mind seeing if I agree with your assessment.
GP
Go Texans!
How does cleaning house after a tank job indicate there wasn't a tank job???
LOL.
1. Field a bad team, including a bad HC.
2. Tank it.
3. Celebrate your tank job by firing everyone and bringing in BETTER people...since you'll be bringing in a better QB too.
4. Draft Andrew Luck.
It takes more faith to believe the Colts were just inadvertently bad than to think the Colts staged a well- devised Suck For Luck campaign.
You think the owner orchestrated the "tank", independent of anyone else? That the players, coaching staff, GM etc had no idea what was going on?
Because that is the only way a tank job could happen. Players, coaches, and front office workers would not risk their career by doing a bad job on purpose.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
You think the Colts did that on purpose just to get Luck? I think you are the one that needs your head examined. You do realize that Polian was fired/left the organization after this last seasons debacle and a new GM was brought in to make the Luck pick right? Also, Jim Caldwell must've been perfectly fine tanking so that he also would get fired and replaced by Chuck Pagano. Do you think the Panthers tanked on purpose just to get Cam Newton? really?
Are you some kind of nutjob conspiracy theorist? By your accusations it would seem every team to have the #1 overall pick every year "unethically gamed the system" which you flat out pulled out of your ass just now.
No, a lottery system is wrong and there is no need for it. Did the Texans "game the system" when Kris Brown shanked what was a 20 something yard FG against the 49'ers in 2005 to win the "Bush Bowl"? Conspiracy theories are not facts and you shouldn't spout them as such.
EDIT: GP, go post your insane rantings about the Colts and Luck in this thread --> http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93767
That way we don't have to see this garbage in the Texans forum since you seem to be all about discussing the Colts today.
I don't think Schaub made the wrong read. He got schlacked as he was releasing the ball. He was going another 5 yards down the field to (Walter?) a reciever that was open. If there was a mistake it was not picking up the blitzing CB from the blind side.
Mike
The Medic01
Waterboy
Right side of offensive line looked very good on the first drive except for one play where Caldwell got driven back to Schaub when Kmart caught his first pass.
The Medic01
Waterboy
Oh on the goal line play Kuechly stuffed Tate because Butler couldn't get to him so that was bad but other than that good,
GP
Go Texans!
I've stated my position. You yours.
Then a troll came in and tried to bait me into a flame war with him, as usual.
So it's time to move on.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
That's what I saw.
There wasn't a problem with the accuracy of his throw, per se, there was a problem with getting hit while throwing.
I don't know who it was on to get that picked up, but someone misread that and got the blocking assignment arsed up.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'll third this. If there was an error it was in not understanding he wasn't going to get the ball off cleanly.