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TEXANS ATTEMPTING A REBOUND AGAINST THE RAVENS IN WEEK 2

TheKDog said:
Because Watson is dumb, so the argument goes.
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Let's just stop with that straw man argument right now, OK?

Some of the greatest geniuses/thinkers in the world are slow processors. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Genius scientists, for example, normally can take what ever time it requires to eventually carefully come up with correct answers. A genius QB does not have the benefit of time on his side, especially to additionally turn the mental into the physical act.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Let's just stop with that straw man argument right now, OK?

Some of the greatest geniuses/thinkers in the world are slow processors. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Genius scientists, for example, normally can take what ever time it requires to eventually carefully come up with correct answers. A genius QB does not have the benefit of time on his side, especially to additionally turn the mental into the physical act.
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Ok fair enough, but I don't really see any evidence of slow processing. Especially after his rookie year when he ran a real system.
 
Corrosion said:
As I stated above - what do you expect him to say ? - My QB had his head up his ass ? My Offense sucks ? - No , he's not going to say anything negative at all. he fell on his sword .... like most other coaches would deflecting blame from the players. They did what I asked ....

If you are down three scores with 16:30 left on the game clock ... are you in hurry up or not ?
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What was OB's sideline demeanor? Was he throwing his hands up in disgust? Was he walking over to Kelly demanding to know what the hail was going on? No, he stood on the sideline like everything was going according to plan.
 
TheKDog said:
I think a couple people did. Others say he can't make the calls at the line and he's a slow processor and makes dumb decisions
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Who?

Saying hes not as instinctive as one of the top tier QBs is one thing. Calling the guy dumb is another.
 
powda said:
Who?

Saying hes not as instinctive as one of the top tier QBs is one thing. Calling the guy dumb is another.
Click to expand...

It can be found through search but I don't think it's worth rehashing. I believe the poster retracted it
 
powda said:
If only 1 poster said it, I wouldn't paint it as a general opinion.

He makes mistakes. They ALL do.
Click to expand...

Ok fair enough. If him being slow processing and unable to make calls at the line doesn't mean he's dumb, then I'll agree it's a straw man
 
TheKDog said:
Agreed. I think it was the coach's game plan
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So you think OBrien went into the game wanting to play slow... throughout the game regardless of the circumstances... to limit KCs possessions in order to keep from being blown out... again.
From what I've seen from OB wan keknownot, I actually think that's more plausible.
 
ColeThornton said:
So you think OBrien went into the game wanting to play slow... throughout the game regardless of the circumstances... to limit KCs possessions in order to keep from being blown out... again.
From what I've seen from OB wan keknownot, I actually think that's more plausible.
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Yes exactly
 
TheKDog said:
Ok fair enough, but I don't really see any evidence of slow processing. Especially after his rookie year when he ran a real system.
Click to expand...

His rookie year he essentially ran the Clemson offense with OB's terminology - He was reading only half the field in college and that was what he was doing for the most part in year one.

Also teams didn't have tape on him , they hadn't figured him out - Carolina laid the blueprint for beating him last year and several teams followed their lead - Denver , Buffalo and Baltimore did it best. They didn't over pursue or run their wide rushers out the back door allowing Watson the edge , rather they kept him in the pocket and forced him to make decisions from there while pressing the middle. Buffalo made one mistake and it cost them that game - They almost won with their own QB sucking the wind out of their sails.

Once teams figure out a QB they have to adapt and show they can beat them other ways. Watson hasn't had a really good game since week 9 beating Jax 26-3.
They damn near let Tampa Bay sneak away with a win with Winston throwing 4 picks.

No one is saying he's stupid , what they are saying is that either he doesn't see things well or he isn't processing what he sees fast enough.
I lean towards it being a little bit of both having watched every game in the All-22. I see him missing or overlooking what should be easy throws time and again.

Then there's Watson himself playing speed chess in an attempt to help him make quicker decisions. I don't think he does this unless he realizes its something he needs to improve upon.
Thing is , speed chess is more about memory than calculation , particularly once you get beyond the opening book moves - I've been in this situation before / seen something similar and X was the right response.
I started playing chess before I could walk and had a GM rating in postal play , a near GM rating in OTB tournament (90/40) play and won a USCF sanctioned blindfold tournament that had multiple GM entry's , I was utterly terrible at blitz chess .... not having time to calculate things out to an end.
More often than not blitz chess is chock full of mistakes that would be taken advantage of in longer time allowances , even by lesser players.
Maybe it helps him in that he's recalling information more quickly - Things he's seen before and able to react accordingly.
 
Corrosion said:
His rookie year he essentially ran the Clemson offense with OB's terminology - He was reading only half the field in college and that was what he was doing for the most part in year one.

Also teams didn't have tape on him , they hadn't figured him out - Carolina laid the blueprint for beating him last year and several teams followed their lead - Denver , Buffalo and Baltimore did it best. They didn't over pursue or run their wide rushers out the back door allowing Watson the edge , rather they kept him in the pocket and forced him to make decisions from there while pressing the middle. Buffalo made one mistake and it cost them that game - They almost won with their own QB sucking the wind out of their sails.

Once teams figure out a QB they have to adapt and show they can beat them other ways. Watson hasn't had a really good game since week 9 beating Jax 26-3.
They damn near let Tampa Bay sneak away with a win with Winston throwing 4 picks.

No one is saying he's stupid , what they are saying is that either he doesn't see things well or he isn't processing what he sees fast enough.
I lean towards it being a little bit of both having watched every game in the All-22. I see him missing or overlooking what should be easy throws time and again.

Then there's Watson himself playing speed chess in an attempt to help him make quicker decisions. I don't think he does this unless he realizes its something he needs to improve upon.
Thing is , speed chess is more about memory than calculation , particularly once you get beyond the opening book moves - I've been in this situation before / seen something similar and X was the right response.
I started playing chess before I could walk and had a GM rating in postal play , a near GM rating in OTB tournament (90/40) play and won a USCF sanctioned blindfold tournament that had multiple GM entry's , I was utterly terrible at blitz chess .... not having time to calculate things out to an end.
More often than not blitz chess is chock full of mistakes that would be taken advantage of in longer time allowances , even by lesser players.
Maybe it helps him in that he's recalling information more quickly - Things he's seen before and able to react accordingly.
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I think Watson has shown enough that he's pretty great. The offensive problems stem from the play calling
 
I agree Obrien uses run to set up the passing game but someone said he wanted to run,run,run. Well why didn't he? Starter David J 11 runs for 77 and Duke had 5. 4 runs per quarter avg doesn't look it. I was expecting a combo of much more and that Duke went out with ankle made me scratch my head? Down by 10 there was time for more runs. Chiefs lead jumps in third but we still could have mixed more runs with David looking good.

I think it's possible Coach decided to let Kelly and Watson run the offense as team was expected to lose, no camp or preseason. I expect him to do same until halftime Sunday. If he doesn't see significant improvement by then, O'Brien takes over play calling. He can tell McNairs and fans "you ask for it you got it."

I just cannot imagine him letting someone else be in charge with Bill's butt on line and I think it is.

By game three O'Brien might take over Defense also. :thinking:
 
Corrosion said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree .... I don't see him as great , I see great potential unfulfilled.

You might change your opinion of you broke down the all-22 and saw just how often he missed open throws.
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Well he's completing 67% of his passes and has been one of the better deep ball passers.

I want to see you in a real system before rendering a final judgment
 
Lucky said:
Texans down 17, 10:49 left in the 3rd Quarter. Probably should go up tempo, I guess. Here's what the Texans do.

View attachment 6635

The play caller has the Texans run the ball 5 of the 1st 7 plays. After the last 2 runs, Howard is burned by a vet pass rusher on 3rd & long. Ending a 4:46 drive with zero points. Watson is 2-2 on the drive.

I'm thinking if someone was concerned about the tempo, fewer runs would have been called. What I think the play caller was concerned with was slowing down the pass rush that was getting home without the benefit of the blitz. Didn't work, but that seems to be what was happening in the game.

I don't have a source (good or bad) within the Texans organization. I just watch the game and look at the facts.
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Yep. 3rd quarter, down 3 scores, 5 runs plays on an 8 play drive that gained 27 yards and ate 4:46 off the clock. That’s some serious strategy right there. It looks to have thrown the Chiefs for a loop too, because they scored 0 points during that time.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
As was in my original post, it should be obvious that O'Brien has been and is protective of his QB, as it should be. I presented information that was shared with me through a respected source. One can chose to incorporate it into part of their overall evaluations, or can chose to turn a blind eye to it altogether, which is also OK.

O'Brien regularly used the up temp/no huddle offense in New England. It was a staple of his Penn State offense. He frequently used it with every Texans QB ever since he joined the Texans, including with Savage who preceded Watson. Now it is left for us to believe that because he is such a terrible evaluator of his QB's abilities, all of a sudden for no cause, he has virtually abandoned the concept for Watson.........purposely instructing him to lead a slow plodding offense in the face of an obviously urgent 2nd half situation. If Watson now as the $160 million franchise QB wanted to play up tempo/no huddle, you can be sure the Texans would be playing accordingly.
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Doc this is one game, lets get that understood first. Secondly they ran uptempo several times last season and no huddle in several games. Y’all trying make it seem as though Watson is not capable of running uptempo. That’s very false and just flat out wrong. My point was there were several games in which they were behind (over 7 years) they didn’t go uptempo and no huddle. Thursday game was not the first and won’t be the last time.
 
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TheKDog said:
Ok fair enough, but I don't really see any evidence of slow processing. Especially after his rookie year when he ran a real system.
Click to expand...
Corrosion said:
His rookie year he essentially ran the Clemson offense with OB's terminology - He was reading only half the field in college and that was what he was doing for the most part in year one.

Also teams didn't have tape on him , they hadn't figured him out - Carolina laid the blueprint for beating him last year and several teams followed their lead - Denver , Buffalo and Baltimore did it best. They didn't over pursue or run their wide rushers out the back door allowing Watson the edge , rather they kept him in the pocket and forced him to make decisions from there while pressing the middle. Buffalo made one mistake and it cost them that game - They almost won with their own QB sucking the wind out of their sails.

Once teams figure out a QB they have to adapt and show they can beat them other ways. Watson hasn't had a really good game since week 9 beating Jax 26-3.
They damn near let Tampa Bay sneak away with a win with Winston throwing 4 picks.

No one is saying he's stupid , what they are saying is that either he doesn't see things well or he isn't processing what he sees fast enough.
I lean towards it being a little bit of both having watched every game in the All-22. I see him missing or overlooking what should be easy throws time and again.

Then there's Watson himself playing speed chess in an attempt to help him make quicker decisions. I don't think he does this unless he realizes its something he needs to improve upon.
Thing is , speed chess is more about memory than calculation , particularly once you get beyond the opening book moves - I've been in this situation before / seen something similar and X was the right response.
I started playing chess before I could walk and had a GM rating in postal play , a near GM rating in OTB tournament (90/40) play and won a USCF sanctioned blindfold tournament that had multiple GM entry's , I was utterly terrible at blitz chess .... not having time to calculate things out to an end.
More often than not blitz chess is chock full of mistakes that would be taken advantage of in longer time allowances , even by lesser players.
Maybe it helps him in that he's recalling information more quickly - Things he's seen before and able to react accordingly.
Click to expand...

The Clemson type college RPO requires very little processing/processing time. Here is an article that illustrates that typical structure quite well.

Oregon’s Quick-Strike Run-Pass Option: Three Plays in 2.2 Seconds
JEREMY MOSIER FEBRUARY 21, 2019 ANALYSIS
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
As was in my original post, it should be obvious that O'Brien has been and is protective of his QB, as it should be. I presented information that was shared with me through a respected source. One can chose to incorporate it into part of their overall evaluations, or can chose to turn a blind eye to it altogether, which is also OK.

O'Brien regularly used the up temp/no huddle offense in New England. It was a staple of his Penn State offense. He frequently used it with every Texans QB ever since he joined the Texans, including with Savage who preceded Watson. Now it is left for us to believe that because he is such a terrible evaluator of his QB's abilities, all of a sudden for no cause, he has virtually abandoned the concept for Watson.........purposely instructing him to lead a slow plodding offense in the face of an obviously urgent 2nd half situation. If Watson now as the $160 million franchise QB wanted to play up tempo/no huddle, you can be sure the Texans would be playing accordingly.
Click to expand...

This is what we really need to get away from on this forum and in the media. Someone from the media spouts out terrible and false information and we want to run with it like it’s actual facts. We’ve ran hurry and no huddle offense several times last season. We also didn’t run it in some games after being down big. The coach elected to run the freaking ball instead of going hurry up and no huddle. Coach O’Brien and Kelly did it last week. So this false narrative about Watson not being able to run a hurry offense is completely and utterly false. He did it at Clemson, most of his rookie season here and throughout several other games since. I guess you don’t remember none of the supposedly game winning drives or none of the comebacks wins.
 
theCATALYST said:
"Deshaun Watson’s highest passer rating from the 34-20 loss to the Kansas City Chiefs came on no-huddle. The two-time Pro Bowler completed three passes on four attempts for 60 yards, a 116.7 passer rating."

No Huddle


Who can't run hurry up / no huddle?
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That stat in this case hardly proves anything. It's a tiny sample. And the number quoted is based on passer rating........and thus virtually completely based on completion percentage and yards per completion. Unlike the truer evaluation of the QB's performance, i.e., QBR rating.............there are so many important other variables that are incorporated in its calculation................. it doesn't simply look at only total yds in a completion. I've posted previously on the important differences between the QB passer rating and the QBR rating of the QB's performance............the latter having so much greater validity in the evaluation. The article posted below offers a simple-to-understand explanation of how the QB passer rating can easily be a distortion of the QB's actual performance.

How is Total QBR calculated? We explain our quarterback rating


BTW, under QBR, plays that occur in “trash time” are devalued by as much as 30%.........as they should be.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol...it’s sacrilegious to believe that the reason something’s not going right on the field is actually completely b/c of DW4. Surely it’s has to be b/c that’s what BoB wants and is “making” him do.....

Same circular thinking many used when we were “just a qb away”...When BoB is fired and we still have issues, what will be the go to for y’all then? At some point, the players on the field gotta take responsibility for what goes on on it....star player or not....seeing as they have the most control.
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Truth hurts
 
Corrosion said:
If you are down three scores with 16:30 left on the game clock ... are you in hurry up or not ?
Click to expand...

Depends. If I've come to the realization I am woefully unprepared to play this season, I'd probably focus more on working on doing what we want to do as a football team, to better prepare me for next week. & not throw bad effort after a bad effort & that has no benefit for next week & the week after.

Unfortunately, this is O'Briens preseason. It's what he does every year.
 
Texansballer74 said:
This is what we really need to get away from on this forum and in the media. Someone from the media spouts out terrible and false information and we want to run with it like it’s actual facts. We’ve ran hurry and no huddle offense several times last season. We also didn’t run it in some games after being down big. The coach elected to run the freaking ball instead of going hurry up and no huddle. Coach O’Brien and Kelly did it last week. So this false narrative about Watson not being able to run a hurry offense is completely and utterly false. He did it at Clemson, most of his rookie season here and throughout several other games since. I guess you don’t remember none of the supposedly game winning drives or none of the comebacks wins.
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The Clemson offense is a no huddle offense not a hurry up offense. Apples/oranges. Truth is the Cemson offense works for DW4 because it limits the number of reads and requirements for DW4 to operate the offense. Which is all good except 1. NFL DC's have figured out how to defend the Clemson offense 2. The Clemson offense opens up DW4 for injury risks as we saw in DW4's rookie season.
 
powda said:
Who?

Saying hes not as instinctive as one of the top tier QBs is one thing. Calling the guy dumb is another.
Click to expand...
Since nobody else is going to say it, it was steelb. It was a slice of time, I believe in the spring of this year, where his comments were the topic of conversation here. As far as I know, he was the only person who felt that way.

Everyone is entitled to their own set of facts in regards to Watson. If someone believes in their heart Watson is too stupid to run Bill O'Brien's offense, they are certainly entitled to that opinion. I disagreed, stated my case against that opinion at the time and moved on. For the most part, everyone else has too.
 
thunderkyss said:
Depends. If I've come to the realization I am woefully unprepared to play this season, I'd probably focus more on working on doing what we want to do as a football team, to better prepare me for next week. & not throw bad effort after a bad effort & that has no benefit for next week & the week after.

Unfortunately, this is O'Briens preseason. It's what he does every year.
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Yeah, when it's most of the team playing uninspired football, I have no choice but to look at the coaches. Especially when it occurs every single year. Even when they had so much to prove against KC, after that debacle in the playoffs, they looked completely uninspired last week. A well coached team would have, IMHO, been out for blood last Thursday. I mean, the defense basically returned all the same players that were humiliated in KC 8 months ago. Yet, they got the ball shoved down their throat by a rookie RB. They were completely dominated at the line of scrimmage.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The Clemson type college RPO requires very little processing/processing time. Here is an article that illustrates that typical structure quite well.

Oregon’s Quick-Strike Run-Pass Option: Three Plays in 2.2 Seconds
JEREMY MOSIER FEBRUARY 21, 2019 ANALYSIS
Click to expand...

This should be required reading.

This makes for very simple reads and a mentally challenged person could make them. The reason this doesn't work as well in the NFL is that in College the OL can block up to 3 yds down the field vs in the NFL the OL can only block 1 yd down the field. This is a big difference in being able to operate the RPO in the NFL on a consistent basis effectively.
 
Lucky said:
Ok. But it is data. What do you have to prove that Watson can't run a no huddle offense? Other than the word from an unknown member of the Texans organiztion?
Click to expand...

Unknown member in the Texans org to you.

There's a difference between not being able to run this vs not wanting to run this. Something apparently you fail to understand. What do you think the reason is that he doesn't want to run it.

If you think he can run it and isn't running it then there are some deep seeded issues and it's going to be a long 4 yrs. Which has been my premise all along. In this case I think you may be onto something. If you think this is on BOB I might agree with you, but you cant really blame BOB for 1. Trying to simplify things as much as possible for DW4, or 2. Limit DW4's injury risk. Just as any HC would try to do,
 
Lucky said:
I don't know if Watson or O'Brien wants to run it or not. I'm not questioning what @CloakNNNdagger has heard. But where is the evidence to support the assertion? Are we going to discuss facts, or rumormonger?
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Seems to me that this post is exactly questioning what CnD has heard. You can choose to believe his sources or not. I choose to believe his sources because CnD isn't one who over the yrs has put out false info.
 
steelbtexan said:
Seems to me that this post is exactly questioning what CnD has heard. You can choose to believe his sources or not. I choose to believe his sources because CnD isn't one who over the yrs has put out false info.
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Well, you're wrong. I never said anything of the sort. I'm certain he would not post something false. I don't have faith in a source I don't know. Is it the OC? The QB coach? The team doctor? Does the source have direct knowledge, or was it 2nd hand info to him? Not knowing any of that makes it a rumor. To me.

What I'm asking of @CloakNNNdagger , or anyone else on the forum, to show any objective information that one can conclude that Watson does not perform well in no huddle situations. Where's the beef?
 
banned1976 said:
Since nobody else is going to say it, it was steelb. It was a slice of time, I believe in the spring of this year, where his comments were the topic of conversation here. As far as I know, he was the only person who felt that way.

Everyone is entitled to their own set of facts in regards to Watson. If someone believes in their heart Watson is too stupid to run Bill O'Brien's offense, they are certainly entitled to that opinion. I disagreed, stated my case against that opinion at the time and moved on. For the most part, everyone else has too.
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Deleted
 
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steelbtexan said:
This should be required reading.

This makes for very simple reads and a mentally challenged person could make them. The reason this doesn't work as well in the NFL is that in College the OL can block up to 3 yds down the field vs in the NFL the OL can only block 1 yd down the field. This is a big difference in being able to operate the RPO in the NFL on a consistent basis effectively.
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Did you just imply that Watson and every QB from Clemson is mentally challenged?
 
Texansballer74 said:
So it’s cool to call Watson stupid but you can’t call another member something negative for their crazy offensive opinions. If you do you will get banned , put it time out. Calling any player or coach, owner stupid/dumb should be grounds for suspension as well.
Click to expand...

Read the rules, it's very simple, attack the post not the poster.

I've spoken on this many times and you cant seem to let it go.

BTW, if this MB were to carry out this policy there would be no conversation from all of the posters that call BOB dumb/stupid etc....
 
Can CND's source clarify on what they mean by DW4 "not liking to go uptempo"? I mean we all have preferences in life, doesn't me we can't or don't excel in things we prefer not to do.

At work, I prefer to NOT manage a team. I let my boss know this. But she asked for help, by managing a team of contractors in Russia. Being a team player, I do the job, and my boss says I do it well.

I know I'm very capable of managing teams, it's just something I prefer not to do if I can avoid it.

DW4 may prefer to not go uptempo, doesn't mean he can't when it's necessary.
 
dream_team said:
Can CND's source clarify on what they mean by DW4 "not liking to go uptempo"? I mean we all have preferences in life, doesn't me we can't or don't excel in things we prefer not to do.

At work, I prefer to NOT manage a team. I let my boss know this. But she asked for help, by managing a team of contractors in Russia. Being a team player, I do the job, and my boss says I do it well.

I know I'm very capable of managing teams, it's just something I prefer not to do if I can avoid it.

DW4 may prefer to not go uptempo, doesn't mean he can't when it's necessary.
Click to expand...

Well he struggled with uptempo when it was necessary last game. Or atleast it should've been necessary. Maybe hat's on BOB/Kelly but I doubt it.
 
ColeThornton said:
So you think OBrien went into the game wanting to play slow... throughout the game regardless of the circumstances... to limit KCs possessions in order to keep from being blown out... again.
From what I've seen from OB wan keknownot, I actually think that's more plausible.
Click to expand...
I think he got a big, puffy chest after that one scoring drive and figured the offense could do it again. Then he gets outscored 24-0 and the offense turtles because he was having flashbacks to 51-7! The final score was what, 34-20? OB thinks, "whew, at least we didn't blown out!" Uh, yes you did. The team looked inept and dreadfully unprepared for whatever the Chiefs middle of the road defense threw at them after the opening TD. That's coaching.
 
dream_team said:
Define struggle? A previous poster mentioned his passer rating increased when they went uptempo.
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There were 23 seconds left in the 3rd qtr the Texans were down multiple scores and the Texans couldn't get off another play. His passer rating increased during garbage time.
 
steelbtexan said:
The Clemson offense is a no huddle offense not a hurry up offense. Apples/oranges. Truth is the Cemson offense works for DW4 because it limits the number of reads and requirements for DW4 to operate the offense. Which is all good except 1. NFL DC's have figured out how to defend the Clemson offense 2. The Clemson offense opens up DW4 for injury risks as we saw in DW4's rookie season.
Click to expand...

Every NFL offensive scheme has been around forever and DC’s have plenty of film.

Jimmy Johnson and his Miami U staff we’re supposed to be the laughing stock of the NFC East. Once his system was in place and talent was obtained.....the laughing stopped and the crying started. DC’s had plenty of successfully defensed film to work with but couldn’t stop what they knew was coming. How was this achieved? Patriots did the same thing.

If Dabo Sweeney and his staff were to take over the Texans.....3-4 years, the laughing would stop as well. OB on the other hand, he’s done none of this. This isn’t an excuse, it’s NFL history at its finest.
 
banned1976 said:
Since nobody else is going to say it, it was steelb. It was a slice of time, I believe in the spring of this year, where his comments were the topic of conversation here. As far as I know, he was the only person who felt that way.

Everyone is entitled to their own set of facts in regards to Watson. If someone believes in their heart Watson is too stupid to run Bill O'Brien's offense, they are certainly entitled to that opinion. I disagreed, stated my case against that opinion at the time and moved on. For the most part, everyone else has too.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see a quote and the context. That was the poster I expected.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Every NFL offensive scheme has been around forever and DC’s have plenty of film.

Jimmy Johnson and his Miami U staff we’re supposed to be the laughing stock of the NFC East. Once his system was in place and talent was obtained.....the laughing stopped and the crying started. DC’s had plenty of successfully defensed film to work with but couldn’t stop what they knew was coming. How was this achieved? Patriots did the same thing.

If Dabo Sweeney and his staff were to take over the Texans.....3-4 years, the laughing would stop as well. OB on the other hand, he’s done none of this. This isn’t an excuse, it’s NFL history at its finest.
Click to expand...

The reasons the Clemson offense works in college but wont be as successful in the NFL are,

1. The College rule where you can block 3 yds down the field vs 1 yd down the field in the NFL. This is significant.

2. In the NFL the QB is likely to get hurt running a RPO offense. See: DW$ blowing out an ACL in college and then blowing out an ACL running the RPO in the NFL his rookie season.

powda said:
I'd love to see a quote and the context. That was the poster I expected.
Click to expand...

It's in either the Carolina or 1st Jags game game thread. He had made a stupid play and in the heat of the moment I called him stupid. I've said many times that I shouldn't have called him that but TB wont let it go.
 
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