HOU-TEX
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IMO, it's a desperate coach looking for something to save his job. It's sink or swim for Mangini this season.
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Favre Thread - Traded to Jets
- Thread starter ChampionTexan
- Start date
IMO, it's a desperate coach looking for something to save his job. It's sink or swim for Mangini this season.
IMO, it's a desperate coach looking for something to save his job. It's sink or swim for Mangini this season.
Hope Brett tears it up there. He'll be in the spotlight more than ever now.
On theganggreen.com there's about 4,000 posts in the last few days.
It was reported that at least 700 posters logged in at one time last night.
One quick poll shows that 59% of the fans expect the Jets to win 11 or more games this year (with 32% expect a 13-win plus season.)
Overall 80% expect the Jets to at least have an 8-8 season.
It was reported that at least 700 posters logged in at one time last night.
One quick poll shows that 59% of the fans expect the Jets to win 11 or more games this year (with 32% expect a 13-win plus season.)
Overall 80% expect the Jets to at least have an 8-8 season.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
Favre did one interview with foxnews and even placed the blame on himself about retiring early, cause Thompson needed a decision very quickly. Football is an emotional hard sport. Your body feels like crap at the end of a season and Freddy new that and you make irrational decisions at that time after a decade and a half of playing.
Ok so Brett deciedes he wants to play and Packers say we give ya $25 mil to walk away from something you love so we do not look like A-holes, Brett said no. Pack could have released him or traded him to the bucs but they wanted to screw Brett and make sure he was on a bad team. The got there wish!
So as far as Brett taking blame that stopped the second he said he wanted to comeback and the pack said sure as a backup trying to force a man to not work. As bad as Brett looks, the Pack look worse for being total A-holes and screwing the player. The 49ers let Joe Motana at least work out a respectable deal and goto a team that was semi respectable and many thought Joe could put them over the top.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Interesting further detail on the deal. If Favre retires before the expiration of his contract, the Packers have to send a pick back to the Jets--which pick depends on how the Jets had to compensate the Packers.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Screw that..... why is that some in here feel that he should get EVERYTHING he wants & the pack deserve to get next to nothing? I don't get that at all.
* He gets to waffle every year on whether he wants to continue playing & the pack just stand by & wait.
* If they don't want to wait, they should just release him so that he can go to a team of his liking.
* well if you won't release him, trade him..... to a team of his liking, it doesn't matter if its a division rival or not.... it's all about brett furthering his legend.
They didn't "screw" him he gets some of what he wants & they some of what they want. the pack move on get some sort of compensation & get him out of the division & he gets to play again as the unquestioned starter on a fairly young team that won 10 games & were in the playoffs just 2 years ago.
The packers did what any organization would do with a player that there was obviously a market for.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I agree somewhat with what you're saying. All Farve did was retire early, and decide to come back at a late time. Was it a distraction? Bigtime.
However, I agree that they could have tried to at least work it out to get him to some team that had a better chance at competing than the Jets. The Bucs wouldn't have been so bad, and it wouldn't have hurt the Packers in my opinion. I don't think it was fair to go out of their way to keep from going to to other teams that were competitive, all because they were afraid of him.If they were that afraid of him, then they should have kept him on the team if they think he is still that good.
PS. Joe did put the Chiefs over the top. He took that team to an AFC championship in his first year I believe. Joe was the man.
Grams
Veteran
Hmmmm - do the Jets have an OL? a WR? a RB? Do they have any kind of offense at all? Do they even have a defense?
Oh wait they now have Favre - the one-man, do-it-all by myself show.
Sure I can learn a whole new offense in 3 weeks, I can beat the AFC teams, I am the greatest, I do not age, I am Favre. I can do it all!
I see crash and burn coming up. Think the Jets will be lucky to win 5 games this year.
Oh wait they now have Favre - the one-man, do-it-all by myself show.
Sure I can learn a whole new offense in 3 weeks, I can beat the AFC teams, I am the greatest, I do not age, I am Favre. I can do it all!
I see crash and burn coming up. Think the Jets will be lucky to win 5 games this year.
P
Polo
Guest
The Jets actually have a pretty decent offense...
Sal Rosenberg
Rookie
AMEN! Thank God it is over!
Brando
Hall of Fame
Boom! Bam!! You hit the nail on the head Brett. If anyone can do it you can. Pass the turducken!
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Really?
I was speaking to a Dolphins fan friend of mine about the trade this morning and he doesn't seem to be too worried. Remember the Jets and Dolphins are in the same division and out of the 3 games the Jets actually won last year, 2 of them were against the pitiful Dolphins.
Favre really doesn't have anyone besides Coles and Cotchery to throw to. I mean Cotchery has come on these last 2 years but I just don't see him and Coles being enough to put this team anywhere near the playoffs. Maybe this rookie TE Dustin Keller, or veteran TE Bubba Franks who has experience with Favre, can give them a 3rd target, but you just aren't going to get very far with two targets.
They've got a pretty bad O line as well, and I know they picked up Faneca but they've got problems all across that line.
The running game is really the only part of their offense I see as solid. Thomas Jones is a solid starter, and backups Leon Washington and Jesse Chatman are good players. Leon Washington could have a breakout year, and should continue to be a gamebreaker on special teams. Jesse Chatman is a very solid #3 back, and not only did they do well by picking him up this year, but they got him away from the Dolphins, who are in their division.
I heard a Jets writer predict 11-5 and I just had to laugh.
I see 8-8....maybe...
Shaft75
All Pro
I agree but disagree with this. As a lifelong Packers fan (Six Year Texans fan) this has been difficult. I agree with the premise for what Favre has done in the community, and the organization. He has led the team to the Superbowl and won it and lost it. There were several other occasions where his decision making cost the opportunity to get into the Superbowl. Then there are those games where he led the team back from nothing to get into that position.
Favre is a legend and among the top QBs / players all time in the NFL. However no one is bigger than the team or the organization. Especially one with the history of Green Bay. No other team comes close to the 12 NFL championships that Green Bay won. The Superbowl Trophy is named for Lombardi. Favres actions were getting really tiresome for the organization for his temamates and the fans. Even with everything Favre did for the community, has been through as a person there is a limit.
The NFL is a business and as fans we dont always like to see it as such. But think of it in these terms if you told you boss I think I want to retire I am not sure if I want to stick around. No matter how good you were at your job at some point they would get sick of it and tell you to hit the door.
Does it hurt to see Favre in another uniform, yes I feel sick.Will I survive yes. Will the Packers survive yes.
The best thing that could come out of this is the Packers to get to the NFC Championship or the Superbowl. The Jets to make it to the Wild card and get their butts handed to them by the Texans on their way to the Superbowl.
I am all for us kicking some Jet-ass this year! BUT.......
Favre is one of those guys that left it all on the field. He still has a passion for the game. I mean, the guy turned down 20 million just to play FOOTBALL. Business is nowhere in that equation, period. You actually have to drag this guy off of the field. How many players can you say that for? We all love Demeco because of his love for the game. He is tried and true, a football player.
So what that he keeps having his second, third, fourth and fifth thoughts. It would be hard for me to call it quits too. I always think of what it would be like to go back to college or high school and play ball again. Hell, one of the main reason that I dig the Texans and this message board so much is because I can't ever get away from football.
I just think the organization owed him more than what they thought. Sorry for the rant.
Shaft75
All Pro
More like Nolan Ryan. Clemens wasn't with us all that long.
How many of you guys were pissed by that move?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You really don't know anything about the Jet's roster at all do you? They have two good WR's in Coles and Cotchery. Not great, but definitely good. They have Thomas Jones who can still pound the ball and a way under used RB in Lean Washington who is a HR threat. They enough weapons for Farve to get the offense going. It's just a question of how much will they be able to do? The defense will be the bigger problem on this team, and will the offense be able to carry them? Probably not.
Shaft75
All Pro
Their defense isn't all that bad on paper. Gholston and Pace are nice additions to their LB core, and they still have David Harris who wasn't all that bad. Ellis and Jenkins on the d-line. Rhodes, Revis and I forget the other corner's name.
However they were really succeptable on offense because of the running game. I think Jones and Washington combined for like 5 td's on the season. They should do better with all D'Brick, Mangold, Faneca, and Woody. Faneca might turn the line around single-handedly.
Now throw in a proven qb and they might do well. Coaching might be an issue though.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Shaft, I think that they can do fine on offense.
The wild card threat they have is Leon Washington. That guy is a big time play maker that is simply not being used. If they could get him involved this year, they could be really good on offense, because Washington is a Westbrook type of player that can give you nice carries and a lot of screen passes that he can get nice yards on. Plus, he's one of the best KR's in the league. He had 3 last year. It's just a matter if they go out of their way to use the guy. They definitely should.
Now on the D, I'm pretty uninformed to what they have. I know about Revis who is still young, and Gholston. Other than that, I don't know much of what they have.
If they're D was to be a top ten D this year though, I could EASILY see them making it to the playoffs with a wild card. Maybe not, but going 9-7 would not be a stretch at all. It really just depends on the D in my opinion, and how much they decide to utilize Lean Washington, because the guy is a poor man's Westbrook that could really help to open up their offense.
P
Polo
Guest
This snippet alone justifies the statement alone, but I'll elaborate further....
People were saying the same thing about the Packers recievers...Coles and Crotchery are actually "pretty decent"....
As far as the O-line goes...Remember David Carr ? Remember our O-line with David Carr ?
Jets haven't exactly had a great QB situation up there...
No one expected Green Bay to do as well as they did offensively last year...I don't see the jets as being a whole hell of a lot behind the Packers as far as talent goes....
Besides all that I didn't say the jets had a great offense....I said "pretty decent"....
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I had no idea that they got Jesse Chatman. Between him and Jones, I think they'll have a nice running game. Not great, but pretty good.
Hagar
Drink up yall, its the Texans!
Boom! Bam!! You hit the nail on the head Brett. If anyone can do it you can. Pass the turducken!
Don't know if you've seen this yet but its pretty good:
The Old Fame
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
Actually he did not waffle anyother year but this year. In the previous years he waitied until right at training camp to make a decision. Also, one of the years the Pack said publically that he could take as long as he wanted to make the right decision for him. If you continue to give a guy the time makes ya think it was not all his doing, but the teams as well.
Who said the Pack should get nothing? I am ok with them preventing him to goto Min, but to say what the Jets offered was substantially better than what the Bucs offered is insain. I doubt it was better, I honestly believe this was a way for teddy to stick it to Brett for not accepting the $25 mil to walk away and make his job easier.
As far as screwing Brett sure they did he wanted to play for a contender if not with the pack another team. What the pack did is make sure he went to a team in the AFC that in no way can compete with the Colts, Patriots, Chargers or the Jags. Hell I do not think the Jets can compete with the Texans as far as that goes. So yeah they screwed him.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=3182742
no, this story says it all.... notice the part about the YAC yardage his WR's racked up last year... who's gonna do that for him in NY?
no, this story says it all.... notice the part about the YAC yardage his WR's racked up last year... who's gonna do that for him in NY?
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Yeah, whatever about McCarthy preaching less Favre in the offense. Dude put up over 4000 passing yards last season.
The biggest issue Favre is going to have is not his abilities. It is whether he can miss so much time in camp and training, and be able to learn a new system. Favre had a really good offseason program last year with Green Bay--probably the most committed he had been in a long time.
Oh, and FanHouse asked me to pitch in on Favre Day. Here's something about the pressures facing Aaron Rodgers:
Aaron Rodgers Is So Screwed
Even David Carr didn't have kids rejecting his autograph.
P
Polo
Guest
YAC has a lot to do with the QB
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I am curious guys. Can the Jets trade Farve right now to a team other than Minnesota?
If so, here's a scenario that would get interesting, but would never happen. What if the Chargers made a move for Farve? Farve would be a HUGE upgrade over Rivers, and that team is ready to make a serious move for the SB. I don't know why they weren't trying to make a move like that. Rivers doesn't seem able to take the Chargers over the top.
If so, here's a scenario that would get interesting, but would never happen. What if the Chargers made a move for Farve? Farve would be a HUGE upgrade over Rivers, and that team is ready to make a serious move for the SB. I don't know why they weren't trying to make a move like that. Rivers doesn't seem able to take the Chargers over the top.
P
Polo
Guest
I wouldn't risk stunting my QB's growth...
Especially not when they had such a good season last year...
Especially not when they had such a good season last year...
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I hear ya, but it doesn't have to be substantially better, just better. We're all entitled to our opinion but i just think if they really were out to screw him they could've sent him out to any number of teams with terrible situations; & they could've done so not caring what they got back in return just to be rid of him. You think the 49er faithful want another year of watching Alex Smith's inconsistency?
It would've been too easy to screw him like that & if he doesn't approve he reports to camp holding a clipboard or stays retired...
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah & over 2000 of his 4000 yards were YAC. again, who's going to do that for him in NY? I'm not saying that He had nothing to do with it, but anybody who watched them any last year could see that his WR corp is 2nd to none. They played a larger role in what he was able to do than anyone gives them credit for.
P
Polo
Guest
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I know predictions are a big big part of pre-season NFL football, and I know at this point, nothing is anything more than opinion anyway, but I'm gonna cop-out and say that it may be more difficult to accurately forecast the Jets season than any other team in the NFL.
This is a team that made the playoffs as a wildcard the year before last (and fwiw, they did it then with little beyond Coles & Cotchery at receiver). Obviously, last year was a different story and then some dropping to 4-12, and probably not playing as well as that record might indicate.
Ignoring the '08 draft, the last two draft classes have included two first round Offensive Linemen (one of them #4 overall), and a first round cornerback. They also went out and picked up the consensus best available offensive linemen in this past season's free agent class (so asking about their OL means you haven't been paying much attention). In general, they were more active in free agency than the vast majority of NFL teams. Now they've added Favre. Not only is there a discussion about how well/quickly he'll learn the offense, not only is there a question about how the chemistry will work (particularly with his WR's), but there's a pretty fair amount of disagreement about just how good he really is at this point in his career.
Draft picks don't always give you an accurate idea in the first year or two of how they will truly pan out. Free agents can fit in and make a huge positive difference, or they can simply not work in a different system, and actually set the team back. This probably applies even more to high profile FA's. And of course the most important position on the team has the biggest questions of them all when you're talking about the Jets.
I'd be pretty surprised if the Jets didn't improve, but I would have said that two weeks ago before anyone could imagine Favre going there. With so many moving pieces, that improvement could take them to the playoffs, or take them to a 50% increase in wins and a 6-10 record. I think Favre probably raises the ceiling of what's realistic, but the floor probably stays the about where it would have been with Pennington or Clemens as the starter.
From my standpoint, I'll pass on a prediction since being right would entail nothing more than luck anyway.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
They were already doing it for him when he played in the dallas game for like 2 quarters... dude completed like 10 passes in a row in route to 201 pass yards.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Actually, not making a decision until training camp is waffling to me. Several years in a row of not knowing if this guy was coming back or not and then this year finally making a decision and then not sticking to it ... that's rilly, rilly bad. That's a huge black mark on this guy's character for me.
Now, if you do it once. OK. But for 3-4 years running? To me, that screams of a guy playing mind-games, a guy that's wanting his ego stroked, a guy that's trying to take his name and use it to make the front office do things he wants done. I think a large part of this was just vindictiveness over the Randy Moss thing and to me that's inexcusable.
The guy is a legend and that gives him some leeway. But that leeway is like money in a bank. And to me, he used up all that money and went into debt. To you, he's obviously still got some money in the bank.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Their WR core is 2nd to none? What? No one even expected their WR's to be that good last year. No one even expected the entire GB offense to be any good last year. Farve had a hell of a year, and throughout his entire career he's had different WR's and played well with a lot of them.
Jennings and Driver were good, but I wouldn't even put them in the top 5 of the league.
You keep talking about the Jets not having anyone, but Cotchery and Coles are a really good duo. Neither one is great, but they are both really good and I'd take them two as a duo with a QB who is coming off of a runner up to MVP season any day of the week. If their running game is good, then their passing game will be really good as well.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Me thinks there's more to the story behind closed doors.
Shaft75
All Pro
not you too Bill! A country boy that hadn't missed a game in 16 years. I thought you would identify...
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Well, since Cotchery had more YAC yardage in '07 than anyone on the Packers, that might be a good start.
Koolaid Time
Drink Up!
ALLEN CLAIMS THERE WERE NO NEGOTIATIONS FOR FAVRE
Posted by Mike Florio on August 7, 2008, 12:30 p.m. UTC
In his first comments regarding the reported efforts of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to trade for quarterback Brett Favre, G.M. Bruce Allen paints a picture that suggests the discussions between the Bucs and Packers didnt get very far at all.
There were no negotiations, Allen said, via Pewter Report. There was never any substance or talk about what it would take for [the Packers] to trade him. All of that was speculation. In the beginning, I think it was clear that it was a bad situation in Green Bay and they had to deal with it in any way they could.
Allen also said that there were no conversations about compensation, and that no trade offer was ever made.
In all, Allen paints a picture that doesnt make much sense. He doesnt deny that coach Jon Gruden talked to Favre, but Allen claims that 18 teams had permission to speak with him. Allen also characterized the public statements of Bus Cook and/or Favre linking Favre to the Bucs were only the result of Favres desire to play for the Bucs.
Pressed on why the team didnt simply say unequivocally that Garcia would be the starter for the 2008 season, Allen pointed to comments over the last year or two years of coach Jon Gruden.
But Allen overlooked comments from Gruden of only a day ago, which strongly hinted that something was up.
Said Gruden on Wednesday, when asked about Favre: We are a good football team and were trying to become a great one. Well do anything we can to get better, and if that involves looking at other players by George, thats our job. Thats our responsibility. . . . Theres been a lot of speculation. I could go on and on and on. Thats part of the medias job to create conversation and report the facts that they have. Out of respect to everybody, Im not the most informed source at this point time. Ive got a lot of respect for the situation, therefore Im going to be very reluctant to say much because I dont want to have to repeat myself tomorrow and change my story.
If Allen is telling the truth, it would have been a lot easier for Gruden to say, Were not pursuing Brett Favre. Jeff Garcia is our starting quarterback.
That said, we cant blame Allen for massaging reality. They didnt get Favre, and now they have to move on. Talking about the one that got away wont make that happen any more quickly.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/07/allen-claims-there-were-no-negotiations-for-favre/
Hervoyel
BUENO!
And yet the Texans are 0-3 all time against the Jets.
But back to the topic at hand...
I think the Jets have made some moves, feel they will pay off, and think they're going to get enough of a push out of Favre that they'll make the playoffs, take some of the heat off themselves, and get a little more time to make it all right.
I think they're wrong. I think the transition will not be smooth and that the team will look pretty inept offensively this year. I don't care who they have or how underrated their WR's are and if Thomas Jones is slightly above average. I suspect that Brett Favre is going to hate everything about New York when he gets there. He's going to hate not knowing the facilities inside and out, not knowing his teammates well, and he's going to hate not having all the little things that make a place your home (professionally speaking in this case). He's going to camp and he's going to have to hit the ground running and it will be new terminology and new teammates and he is not going to be Brett Favre "in his groove" for a good portion of the season (if he ever reaches that point there).
Look at how hard it is for him to change his life and retire. This is not a man who adapts to change easily. Football will not be what he has grown to expect it to be and he's going to have a really hard time with that.
I think playing for the Jets is going to be a bit let down for both Favre and New York. His best chance to win this season was the Packers, and that was obviously a bridge burned many moons ago.
The Madden curse is now primed for fulfillment.
The Madden curse is now primed for fulfillment.
Oh I think he'll do fine. He's probably been to NY dozens of times and I would imagine he knows most of the guys on the Jets anyway...he's been in the league forever.
He's maybe the most competitive guy in the NFL and this will just feed that nature of his.
He always seems to have so much fun playing. I don't think that will change.
He's maybe the most competitive guy in the NFL and this will just feed that nature of his.
He always seems to have so much fun playing. I don't think that will change.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
FYI
YAC
Donald Driver 438 yds out of 1048 yds in 2007
Jerricho Cotchery 444 yds out of 1130 yds in 2007
Interesting trivia:
Link
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Those two can hang with any of your top 5, whomever they are. as the article says though, they don't get the credit they're due largely b/c everyone thinks it all brett favre, much like how it is in Indy. & it's not just Driver & Jennings. James Jones is another burner with the same capabilities as the other 2 who also put up stellar stats as a 3rd option. You add in Jordy Nelson & that's a ridiculous amount of talent on the outside.