the wonger need food
All Pro
Their defense, offensive, Travis Henry and kicker played bigger roles. Vince made a few big plays but he was hardly "the reason".
VY= a running QB and an unknown commodity.
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Another Reggie Bust Article
- Thread starter the wonger need food
- Start date
Their defense, offensive, Travis Henry and kicker played bigger roles. Vince made a few big plays but he was hardly "the reason".
VY= a running QB and an unknown commodity.
the wonger need food
All Pro
Huh??? An indicator of a running back's productivity is Yards Per Carry. Reggie's is not good compared to average NFL running backs.
JohnsonFan
Rookie
lol what team would not, even if used at a situational back like reggie is who wouldnt want him, the texans made a big mistake when not taking him!
The Dream
All Pro
LOL......you guys are so funny.....take VY off that team last year and their record drops........it's as simple as that...
but one of those reasons is because of the few attempts that he does get........the only way I could make a "fair" assesment about Bush's running game is if he got more carries....
bah007
Hall of Fame
Bush did have 155 carries last year (about 10 per game) & his YPC was only 3.6 & his longest run was only 18 yards. Not very good value there at all.
28 punt returns for only a 7.7 yard average. Not very good value there either.
His only real value to the Saints is as a WR. 88 catches but still only an 8 yard average.
Bush had plenty of touches last year. He just didnt deliver as advertised.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Of the 41 players last year who got 6.25 carries per game or more, Bush was tied for last place with Jamal Lewis & Shaun Alexander with 3.6 YPC.
Of the 31 players last year who returned at least 1 punt per game, Bush 25th place with 7.7 yards per return. Last place was Chris Gamble with a 5.1 average.
Bush was 10th in the NFL with 88 catches last year. Andre Johnson was 1st with 103. But Bush's 8.4 yards per catch wasnt even in the top 50 in the NFC & I cant even find where he ranks in the entire league.
That's just some stats I found for anybody who was interested.
Of the 31 players last year who returned at least 1 punt per game, Bush 25th place with 7.7 yards per return. Last place was Chris Gamble with a 5.1 average.
Bush was 10th in the NFL with 88 catches last year. Andre Johnson was 1st with 103. But Bush's 8.4 yards per catch wasnt even in the top 50 in the NFC & I cant even find where he ranks in the entire league.
That's just some stats I found for anybody who was interested.
Wolf
100% Texan
I think his sr season was horrendous, I don't know how he could have been drafted #1 overall no tackles no sacks no nothing,heck didn't make the team
I am just kidding with you vinny on that
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/draft/2006/prospects/williamsm.html
that read and react might be what some on here are considering "lazy"
all jokes aside.
seriously, I hope Mario develops and learns the attack mode. I think Bush will be fine. Time will tell if he can live up to what label the media put on him, but a steep climb
But as Texan fans (and in human nature in general.), this backlash should have been known that it was coming. We all have heard from every posible source whether it was espin,foxnews,cbs sportsline,other fans, everyone about how the Texans screwed up by taking MW over the other guys and when the other guys mess up(even if it is just one game), we want to hear how everyone will "crawdad" and mario hopefully will help even the score with a solid season . Media created this backlash with the hype,
what I mean by crawdad, is hopefully mario proves them wrong and espin and others start backing up in defense mode like a crawdad
the wonger need food
All Pro
Take away Travis Henry, Pacman and Baronis and their record drops.... it's just as simple. Running quarterbacks can't win championships in the NFL... that's pretty simple too.
Fair assesment of Bush's running game? How many excuses are you going to make for this guy? He was a major factor in costing them the game last night because they kept going to him and he kept failing. If he gets more touches the Colts might have had time to score 70.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
How dare your bring facts into a slanging match.
I will throw my lot in with VY and Bush as being over rated as of now.
I would take Bush over VY but Mario over both of them.
This was from the second page I think but I just wanted to say this is a great post. I'm never going to rag on Houston for passing on Bush or VY (but thanks
) because there's no way to tell whats going to happen. (Don't take that as me saying Williams is a bust)Good post
You mean now knowing how they performed in their rookie seasons or back at the time of the draft?
Easy question either way... why?
Keep in mind, if you mean at the time of that draft, Carr would still be your quarterback, you would not have Ahman Green in the backfield but instead a Dominick Davis who is hurt and a defensive line full of high picks who have all dissapointed.
If you mean now then you would want Mario over Reggie Bush, again going off of what they've shown so far? I understand there is no need for VY now that Schaub is there but I can't understand why you wouldn't want a guy like Reggie Bush on your team.
I'm not grilling ya I'm just wondering
BattleRedToro
Thread Killer
I think Reggie Bush will have a career very similar to Eric Metcalf. Now, there would be nothing wrong with that except that to have him the Texans would have had to draft him #1 Overall. Even if the NFL didn't have a salary cap, I wouldn't like that because a player like that can be acquired much lower in the draft, such as the 3rd Round or possibly lower, and the opportunity cost of drafting a player 1st Overall with the type of abilities that can be had in the 3rd Round is too high when there are other players available that have the type of abilities that won't be available at the end of the 1st Round, much less in the 3rd Round. When you add to this the concept of the salary cap and the fact that he will be paid an inordinately high percentage of a team's salary cap it only makes the idea of drafting him that high even more unattractive to me. Now, if Reggie Bush becomes a Free Agent for a reasonable salary for his production then of course I would love for the Texans to have him. I just don't want the Texans to make anymore bad salary cap moves like they have in the past. Of course, there still remains the possibility that I am wrong about Reggie Bush and he me have a more productive career then I am predicting. Only time will tell.
Grams
Veteran
I am not a Reggie Bush fan, have never really been one.
Watching his college highlights film, he was an exciting player. But that was college not the NFL. Could he fit into Kubiacks offensive running scheme or does he "free Lance" too much to have helped the Texans last year.
Bush looked kind of lost out on the field Thursday, looked very unsure of himself, uncertain of where to run and Indy did an excellent job on tackling. Sign of things to come this year?
I like the 3rd round pick of the Texans this year and think we will see more highlights of Jacoby Jones than Reggie Bush this year.
Watching his college highlights film, he was an exciting player. But that was college not the NFL. Could he fit into Kubiacks offensive running scheme or does he "free Lance" too much to have helped the Texans last year.
Bush looked kind of lost out on the field Thursday, looked very unsure of himself, uncertain of where to run and Indy did an excellent job on tackling. Sign of things to come this year?
I like the 3rd round pick of the Texans this year and think we will see more highlights of Jacoby Jones than Reggie Bush this year.
RB25 is a playmaker and as someone else said above, I'd take him in a minute. He's a great complementary weapon with crazy skills when you're able to get him the ball in space.
However, if the Texans (or any other team for that matter) had him, they would still need a RB that can take it inside 15+ times per game because that's not his game, and from the looks of things (this year, last year, USC,...) it may never be.
If RB is on your team, you still need a guy like Deuce around to keep defenses honest inside and focused on something other than just hammering the QB. Without Deuce (or any other RB like him) you forfeit most of the play action section in your playbook.
Some might be surprised how many different combinations of plays are set up by a single play action fake to a RB like an Ahman Green or a Deuce McAllister.
Imagine if the Texans took Bush and were trying to use him as a primary RB. He would be gaining his 3.5 or whatever per carry but Texans fans would be blaming the o-line and screaming for John Benton's head.
However, if the Texans (or any other team for that matter) had him, they would still need a RB that can take it inside 15+ times per game because that's not his game, and from the looks of things (this year, last year, USC,...) it may never be.
If RB is on your team, you still need a guy like Deuce around to keep defenses honest inside and focused on something other than just hammering the QB. Without Deuce (or any other RB like him) you forfeit most of the play action section in your playbook.
Some might be surprised how many different combinations of plays are set up by a single play action fake to a RB like an Ahman Green or a Deuce McAllister.
Imagine if the Texans took Bush and were trying to use him as a primary RB. He would be gaining his 3.5 or whatever per carry but Texans fans would be blaming the o-line and screaming for John Benton's head.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Bush has been good for the NO community as he created some buzz by putting fans in the seats and then the rest of the Saints amplified it by playing some terrific football.
I get the feeling this is going to be like a sugar high as those fans will be coming down hard when results fall off and the realization comes that three players in the backfield account for ~28m of a 109m cap this year.
I believe Brees got a whopping 12m roster bonus this year as it was structured in his contract in 2006 and has four years left on his contract at 10m per. Deuce has five years left on his ~8.2m per and Reginald has four years left on his 10+m per.
In essence almost 28m or 26% of your money is wrapped up in three players in your backfield. If this team goes south, and RB does not perform, the fragile comforting high that this city has been on will come crashing down.
Thankfully we stayed away from the bright and shiny thing that was RB.
I get the feeling this is going to be like a sugar high as those fans will be coming down hard when results fall off and the realization comes that three players in the backfield account for ~28m of a 109m cap this year.
I believe Brees got a whopping 12m roster bonus this year as it was structured in his contract in 2006 and has four years left on his contract at 10m per. Deuce has five years left on his ~8.2m per and Reginald has four years left on his 10+m per.
In essence almost 28m or 26% of your money is wrapped up in three players in your backfield. If this team goes south, and RB does not perform, the fragile comforting high that this city has been on will come crashing down.
Thankfully we stayed away from the bright and shiny thing that was RB.
Yeah, but would you trade him straight up for Jacoby?
I'm with Grams on this one, I think Jacoby will be a more electrifying player this year.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
No you can't, but you can compare good play to crap play
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
You really have no idea what you are talking about and it is getting frustrating.
Anybody catch the ESPN guys yesterday after the Indy-Saints game ?
They are so obvious, as they talked about the game but avoided Bush's name
like it was the plague, no doubt because of his dismal performance. Yet soon, in the next few weeks probably he'll have another game with a high-light play or 2 and the "Around-The-Horn"/PTI crews will be trumpeting Bush's name again as if he has a preemptive claim on HOF membership.
They are so obvious, as they talked about the game but avoided Bush's name
like it was the plague, no doubt because of his dismal performance. Yet soon, in the next few weeks probably he'll have another game with a high-light play or 2 and the "Around-The-Horn"/PTI crews will be trumpeting Bush's name again as if he has a preemptive claim on HOF membership.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
i need to lay off the hippie lettuce on Sundays it looks like....could have swore it was 8 in a row. OROY went to VY and it was justified. He had a winning record as a starter which is unheard of for most rookie QBs on bad teams. Drew had some big plays too but in a backup role. VY was FAR more impressive but simple jealousy and college allegiances can muddy all that up for someone.
that being said....Starting QB >>>> Backup RB any day of the week
Bush is a product of hype, VY was a product of anti-hype. Remember how people were slamming his game and his test scores? He was thrown into the fire of a sinking ship and HELPED to lift it up with his impressive play, his uncanny nack on 3rd down and in the 4th quarter, and with his unquestionable drive and determination. His leadership didn't hurt either but that has been driven into the ground even by the anti-hype machine.
The Madden cover is hype..that should be Peyton every year
The OROY was earned and well earned I might add...backup RBs should never get a sniff....and they dont.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
that game Thursday wasn't about RB playing bad, it was about the Saints being the Saints. The real Saints are back and things are once again right in the world.
now take your criminals err evacuees back to New Orleans and stay there
now take your criminals err evacuees back to New Orleans and stay there
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
It may not have been, but dollars spent on low valued productive goods will come back to bite you overtly or covertly, quickly. The Saints have a favorable schedule on paper. Should they lose early I would expect that locker room to blow up and be channeled in a certain direction.
I wish Joe Horn was still there, he is a great fire starter.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
yup, that's how it works. and i don't know why they give him a special pass. see, the thing about ESPN is, that they will take certain guys and hype them up like crazy. BUT they will also be extra-hard on those guys when they aren't playing up to the hype. think Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, LeBron James, etc...they hyped them up tremendously over the years, but in the case of Tiger Woods, there was plenty of "is he slumping?" talk, and with Manning, everyone always added the footnote "but can he win the big one?" and we all remember the nonsense about James during the NBA playoffs.
but with Bush, they're trying extra hard to bury all of that.
they also did the same with Vick. of course, once he got into huge legal trouble, they didn't have much of a choice, and turned 180 on him pronto.
Dang Kastofsna, I'm surprised you'd ask that question because my impression of you is that of an astute observer of the NFL scene.
Plain & simple its Business. Bush now appears to have more commercial endorsements than any other player in the NFL after only Peyton Manning himself. And many of those corporate entities that Bush does commercials for
are also ESPN sponsers and it therefor behooves ESPN to enhance and protect the visibility and credibility of advertsement presentations by its corporate sponsers. Afterall, be it a company that markets athletic-shoes or sandwiches, they want a winner and not a loser/bust hustling their procducts on TV.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
VY wasn't even the first choice. LT was. LT declined to be on the cover.
Wolf
100% Texan
how?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
good god some of you guys must be blind...if you just watched our games you can see how he personally handed us our asses to us on a stick. This isn't a game of pretty boys looking good and piling up kewl stats..it's about who has the most points at the end of the game.
the wonger need food
All Pro
He proved that he can run, that's about it. He won't be able to do that his entire career. Randall Cunningham didn't win a single championship and he had a better arm and was on better teams.
I'll take that... good answer
awtysst
Draft Guru
I go to Michael Smith for my football related news.
Having Cunningham as your QB would never be considered a busted pick. The expectations for VY are so far beyond those of RC...and it's a shame. He's been 'anointed' FAR too early. I'd like to see him develop as something more than the one-trick pony displayed thus far.
It's not a matter of denial, or of being "blind"...some of us actually think that Matt Lineart was the best rookie QB last year.
Wolf
100% Texan
that is basically what i am saying
I give Vince more credit to leading his team than the guy they say did in N.O.
that is not a bash on either rookies.
I feel Pac-Man had a big influence on the return game and on defense..VY has the knack of making drive continuing plays just like he did at UT
I feel Brees had a huge impact on N.O. and with duece pounding it , and for defenses to account for Bush's potential explosiveness. opened up Colston who was dynomite and continued to be dynomite until injured
the wonger need food
All Pro
You consider a 51% passer rating with more INT's than TD's and a passer rating of 66.7 a good year? Not to mention 12 fumbles. I guess you don't look far past ESPN for your NFL football research.
Bruce Gradkowski had almost the same stats. Leinart and Cutler were statistically better than Young.
But don't let your blind love for players get in the way of reality.
the wonger need food
All Pro
So were the other 3 guys that I listed. You believe he had this great year but in reality he was the 3rd or 4th best rookie QB in the draft class.
the wonger need food
All Pro
Statistically... no.
OK I'll bite...
Leinart: Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Edgerrin James (down year) mediocre defense
Cutler: Javon Walker, Rod Smith, dominate running game and defense
Young: Drew Bennett, Bobby Wade, 5th in the league in rushing and last in total defense.
I'll play the supporting cast card on this one. And I think most sane Titans fans will acknowledge that VY was the least pro-ready QB in that draft so his struggles are not a surprise. VY did more with less then Leinart and Cutler (cliche but you get the picture)... and forget Gradkowski. If he was the real deal they wouldn't have snagged Jeff Garcia.
Leinart: Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Edgerrin James (down year) mediocre defense
Cutler: Javon Walker, Rod Smith, dominate running game and defense
Young: Drew Bennett, Bobby Wade, 5th in the league in rushing and last in total defense.
I'll play the supporting cast card on this one. And I think most sane Titans fans will acknowledge that VY was the least pro-ready QB in that draft so his struggles are not a surprise. VY did more with less then Leinart and Cutler (cliche but you get the picture)... and forget Gradkowski. If he was the real deal they wouldn't have snagged Jeff Garcia.
the wonger need food
All Pro
You guys always have excuses. It doesn't matter who Young's receivers are, he won't get them the ball. Why do you think no high-profile WR's wanted to sign with Possum Holler and all of last year's receivers signed with other teams. Chatanooga is career-killer if you're a wide receiver.... as long as your running QB is there.
the wonger need food
All Pro
And yet he still almost finished on par with Vince Young with regards to statistics. What does that tell you?
It's an excuse but its reasonable. Excuse the company for a second, I'm not trying to group VY with these guys just making a point.
Joe Montana/Steve Young..... Jerry Rice
Peyton Manning.... Marvin Harrison
Troy Aikman...... Michael Irvin
Jim Kelly...... Andre Reed
Dan Marino....... Mark Clayton
Dan Fouts..... Charlie Joyner
Terry bradshaw..... Lynn Swan
Vince Young..... Bobby Wade?
My point is every great QB had his go-to, reliable guy on the outside (in some cases they had two). Give Vince someone that will be consistent, that will grow with him as a player and be his safety net.
To say the supporting cast thing isn't important is kind of funny to me. Barry Sanders, arguably the best running back in history, played on a dismal Detroit team for ten years..... his playoff record during his career? 1-6. A supporting cast is a important to anyone's success in this league.
Joe Montana/Steve Young..... Jerry Rice
Peyton Manning.... Marvin Harrison
Troy Aikman...... Michael Irvin
Jim Kelly...... Andre Reed
Dan Marino....... Mark Clayton
Dan Fouts..... Charlie Joyner
Terry bradshaw..... Lynn Swan
Vince Young..... Bobby Wade?
My point is every great QB had his go-to, reliable guy on the outside (in some cases they had two). Give Vince someone that will be consistent, that will grow with him as a player and be his safety net.
To say the supporting cast thing isn't important is kind of funny to me. Barry Sanders, arguably the best running back in history, played on a dismal Detroit team for ten years..... his playoff record during his career? 1-6. A supporting cast is a important to anyone's success in this league.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
that it's hard to tell bad QB's apart by just looking at their statistics.
the wonger need food
All Pro
You guys are going to come up with every excuse in the book for these guys so there's really no reason to carry it any farther. I guess that's a characteristic of sports fans.... reality will always be skewed towards the people that you want to see succeed.