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Another Reggie Bust Article

Honoring Earl 34 said:
Was'nt Mario the newcomer of the year as a freshman ?
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yup, also was named to the Freshman All-American team by three different places, first team All-American as a junior, ACC first team as a sophomore, has pretty much every possible school record for a DE (and he left a year early)...his great combine just reflected his amazing play on the field.
 
WWJD said:
Yep. You're right. The SAINTS stunk it up. The team. Not just Reggie. And when you play poorly against the Colts and that offense you're going to get 40 hung on you.
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We know all too well with our 1-9 record against them.
 
swtbound07 said:
I think your missing a larger point. this is a TYPICAL reggie bush game.

some examples for you

12/31 @ carolina 3 carries, 20 yards
12/17 vs washington 7 carries, 14 yards
12/03 vs. sanfrancisco 10 carries 37 yards
11/26 @ atlanta 5 carries 24 yards
11/19 vs. cincinnati 13 carries 51 yards
11/12 vs. pit 10 carries 49 yards
11/05 @ tampa bay 11 carries -5 yards
...its taking too long to cut and paste these stats, but here are his TOTAL rushing yards for october and september...4 games for each

October- 4 games- 87 rushing yards
september-4 games 125 rushing yards.

ridiculously bad. He isn't a good player. He's barely mediocre. What you saw last night is what you get from reggie, pretty much all the time.
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well, just based on rushing alone he sucks, but if you include his receiving, he's mediocre. but if you include his punt returning, then he's back to below-mediocre.

but as the experts say, he's a decoy, and that's the only reason why the saints did anything. forget the pro bowlers starting at QB, RB, WR, and LT, it's alllllll reggie.
 
kastofsna said:
if you followed the draft or scouting process at all, you would've known that Williams was considered by most to be the best d-line prospect to come out of college in a LONG time, and the hype started when he first set foot on the NC State campus. just because YOU didn't know who he was because YOU were ignorant, doesn't mean he's a product of combine hype. if you actually watched the games or anything (or knew what to actually watch), it'd be abundantly clear that Williams was the most talented player on the entire team, and in the entire ACC at the time.
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pleeeeeeze.....Mario wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardy trophy.....he wasn't even considered one of the top front seven defenders in his class.
 
kastofsna said:
well, just based on rushing alone he sucks, but if you include his receiving, he's mediocre. but if you include his punt returning, then he's back to below-mediocre.

but as the experts say, he's a decoy, and that's the only reason why the saints did anything. forget the pro bowlers starting at QB, RB, WR, and LT, it's alllllll reggie.
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im not arguing his slashiness, im arguing that he sucks at THAT aspect of his slashiness...he's a crappy punt returner too .Im not impressed with him as a reciever, but i would be willing to listen to those arguements...but him in the backfield is terrible
 
Vinny said:
pleeeeeeze.....Mario wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardy trophy.....he wasn't even considered one of the top front seven defenders in his class.
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And yet he was damn near the consensus #1 defensive player amongst the draft experts (including those that actually know what they are doing like Gosselin), and he would have gone with the 2nd pick to the Siants if the Texans had not drafted him.

And besides, the winning of post season awards in college is about the worst way to predicted who's going to make it in the NFL; just see the list of Heisman winners over the years.
 
Vinny said:
pleeeeeeze.....Mario wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardy trophy.....he wasn't even considered one of the top front seven defenders in his class.
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awards like the Lombardi are pretty much all based on hype. i mean, Rod Wright was a finalist that year.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
And yet he was damn near the consensus #1 defensive player amongst the draft experts (including those that actually know what they are doing like Gosselin), and he would have gone with the 2nd pick tot he Siants if the Texans had not drafted him.
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between the top two defensive players in that draft (Williams and AJ Hawk), i'd guess it was like 90/10 in favor of Williams amongst the experts as to who was #1.
 
Mario got his sacks vs inferior players in a couple of games...he disappeared totally in most of his games. Nobody thought those three sack games vs Wake Forrest and the little sisters of the poor all that dominant....nobody that knows what they are looking at.

He sure did look great in shorts at the combine though.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
And yet he was damn near the consensus #1 defensive player amongst the draft experts (including those that actually know what they are doing like Gosselin), and he would have gone with the 2nd pick to the Siants if the Texans had not drafted him.

And besides, the winning of post season awards in college is about the worst way to predicted who's going to make it in the NFL; just see the list of Heisman winners over the years.
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I'm just saying that some of you guys are revising history. He was tabbed a great prospect on his potential...his body, his combine.... not his game, 'cause he really wasn't that impressive at all. You guys are confusing the two issues.
 
sorry vinny, i was around the two years prior to that draft when everyone excited about seeing Mario Williams develop into a top 3 draft pick. he was a lock to go top 3-5 long before the combine. the combine just reinforced what everyone already knew about him.

and why are you putting all your eggs in the sack basket? since when are sacks the most important stat in the world? people assume that because a DE doesn't get sacks, then he "disappears" and takes plays off. it's nonsense. he didn't get the sacks in the big games because better teams can gameplan better for the better teams. that's the way it works for pretty much every position, actually. reggie bush wasn't that great in the Rose Bowl...that's the way football is.
 
Well let's see how Reggie's year pans out. He was horrible last night. I'm pretty sure nobody has to tell him that.

And if I remember he was the guy Coach Kubiak wanted that year. They couldn't get the deal done with him so they proceeded with Mario. Did I dream that or is that the case? I'm not being snarky just thinking that's what I read.
 
kastofsna said:
sorry vinny, i was around the two years prior to that draft when everyone excited about seeing Mario Williams develop into a top 3 draft pick. he was a lock to go top 3-5 long before the combine. the combine just reinforced what everyone already knew about him.

and why are you putting all your eggs in the sack basket? since when are sacks the most important stat in the world? people assume that because a DE doesn't get sacks, then he "disappears" and takes plays off. it's nonsense. he didn't get the sacks in the big games because better teams can gameplan better for the better teams. that's the way it works for pretty much every position, actually. reggie bush wasn't that great in the Rose Bowl...that's the way football is.
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well, your pre-draft insight has been laughable around here for a couple of years...it all sounds good till reality sets in...one reason I don't respond to many of your posts.

have fun...but it's always a circle jerk when it comes to exchanging posts with you historically...I'm out. :mail:
 
WWJD said:
And if I remember he was the guy Coach Kubiak wanted that year. They couldn't get the deal done with him so they proceeded with Mario. Did I dream that or is that the case? I'm not being snarky just thinking that's what I read.
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there's been a lot of talk about this, but i doubt kubiak ever told anyone in the media that he wanted Bush over Williams, it'd be pretty bad PR.
 
Vinny said:
well, your pre-draft insight has been laughable around here for a couple of years...it all sounds good till reality sets in...one reason I don't respond to many of your posts.

have fun...but it's always a circle jerk when it comes to exchanging posts with you historically...I'm out. :mail:
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this is true.
 
Vinny said:
well, your pre-draft insight has been laughable around here for a couple of years...it all sounds good till reality sets in...one reason I don't respond to many of your posts.

have fun...but it's always a circle jerk when it comes to exchanging posts with you historically...I'm out. :mail:
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yeah i guess it's just easy to ignore the history and make up your own little blurb on the past. although really you're not ignoring the history; you just didn't pay attention to it as it happened. you only pay attention to the college game come draft time. and that's fine, but don't pretend you know anything when you're CLUELESS.
 
kastofsna said:
yeah i guess it's just easy to ignore the history and make up your own little blurb on the past. although really you're not ignoring the history; you just didn't pay attention to it as it happened. you only pay attention to the college game come draft time. and that's fine, but don't pretend you know anything when you're CLUELESS.
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I'll put my historical insight and posts about the game against yours any day of the week. I think you need to look in the mirror when you are calling me clueless.
 
kastofsna said:
there's been a lot of talk about this, but i doubt kubiak ever told anyone in the media that he wanted Bush over Williams, it'd be pretty bad PR.
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I THINK I read it somewhere but can't remember where. Or maybe John McClain said it on 610. Just thinking I didn't dream that one up.
 
kastofsna said:
yeah i guess it's just easy to ignore the history and make up your own little blurb on the past. although really you're not ignoring the history; you just didn't pay attention to it as it happened. you only pay attention to the college game come draft time. and that's fine, but don't pretend you know anything when you're CLUELESS.
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you know when your parents fight at dinner, and then somebody says something that goes too far, and mommy slaps daddy, and everybody gets silent...thats the kind of silence i felt when you just posted that...like something really ugly is about to go down.
 
kastofsna said:
if you followed the draft or scouting process at all, you would've known that Williams was considered by most to be the best d-line prospect to come out of college in a LONG time, and the hype started when he first set foot on the NC State campus. just because YOU didn't know who he was because YOU were ignorant, doesn't mean he's a product of combine hype. if you actually watched the games or anything (or knew what to actually watch), it'd be abundantly clear that Williams was the most talented player on the entire team, and in the entire ACC at the time.
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I think this is the same B.S. that others got snowed by. The guy wasn't even the best player on his own D..Lawson was if you watch tape. Most scouts, despite his workouts said he took plays off and there was concern about his motor. Many scouts interviewed since the draft even said that they were worried because he got many of his sacks against weaker teams while being owned against superior talent.

This doesn't mean I don't like Mario, or think he can't grow. But there are a ton of "Top Freshman" etc, etc that are overhyped. Calling people ignorant is just lame. The guys stock rose at the combines, no matter what your man crush tells you and for those of us who actually did watch but didn't have to take a cold shower after the fact, could see the pros and cons. He still would have gone high but it doesn't mean he was a stud. He just happened to be a guy that looks perfect on paper in in person and you have to figure out how to motivate him. Heck I'll evenb adnit that at the time I was a "move down and take him" guy. I just don't think I'd start throwing out insults and talking to my Mario Fat Head in my room because I don't agree.
 
swtbound07 said:
this is true.
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luckily for you guys, i'm taking a year off as far as the draft goes. life is going fast now, there's a kid on the way (yes, a li'l kastofsna), getting a house, new opportunities at work...just don't have the time or energy to focus on the college game as much.

but i'll still be here, don't worry. :heart:
 
kastofsna said:
luckily for you guys, i'm taking a year off as far as the draft goes. life is going fast now, there's a kid on the way (yes, a li'l kastofsna), getting a house, new opportunities at work...just don't have the time or energy to focus on the college game as much.

but i'll still be here, don't worry. :heart:
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projected size- 8 pounds, 8 ounces
projected speed- too fast to catch
intangibles- high poop and vomit rates
anticipated hours of labor-16

congrats casty....seriously.
 
So what would have happened if the Texans took Reggie ?

I think Reggie would have set a record with 153 catches for 700 yards .

Drafting Reggie could have been a major setback because you can't cut a QB with an 85% completion rate .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
So what would have happened if the Texans took Reggie ?

I think Reggie would have set a record with 153 catches for 700 yards .

Drafting Reggie could have been a major setback because you can't cut a QB with an 85% completion rate .
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Yeah, I maintain that Bush would have kept YKW on this team, because the special dump pass of our previous offense was right up Reggie's alley.
 
Vinny said:
pleeeeeeze.....Mario wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardy trophy.....he wasn't even considered one of the top front seven defenders in his class.
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Vinny, usually you present much better arguments than this.... The Lombardi Award?? The same one that Steve Emtmen won and Brian Bosworth was a finalist for??

But I do understand what you are saying based on his potential rather than his body of work in college football.

Thing is, there is no sure thing making the jump from college to professional football. People bust all the time, people come out of no where all the time. Sometimes people live up to their potential, but it takes a while.

As much as I like to hammer Reggie Bush, really a season and a game are not much of a body of work. Same can be said for Mario. Personally, I think Reggie will be a bust and I think Mario will be an upper eschelon DL - but NOT elite AND not yet.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Vinny, usually you present much better arguments than this.... The Lombardi Award?? The same one that Steve Emtmen won and Brian Bosworth was a finalist for??
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Sure, Boz had one of the great years ever for a college front seven player. Emtmen was a beast. What I didn't say was that having a great College year equates to being a beat in the pros....what I did say was that nobody considered Mario's SR season as awesome as stated in this thread. I stand behind that statement.....Mario's year wasn't considered all that outstanding.

Vinny said:
I'm just saying that some of you guys are revising history. He was tabbed a great prospect on his potential...his body, his combine.... not his game, 'cause he really wasn't that impressive at all. You guys are confusing the two issues.
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Vinny said:
Sure, Boz had one of the great years ever for a college front seven player. Emtmen was a beast. What I didn't say was that having a great College year equates to being a beat in the pros....what I did say was that nobody considered Mario's SR season as awesome as stated in this thread. I stand behind that statement.....Mario's year wasn't considered all that outstanding.
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he made first-team all-american that year. not based on potential.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
So what would have happened if the Texans took Reggie ?

I think Reggie would have set a record with 153 catches for 700 yards .

Drafting Reggie could have been a major setback because you can't cut a QB with an 85% completion rate .
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That's a little over 4.575 yds/rec. Don't you think that's being a little too generous? LOL!

Good one! :specnatz:
 
I think bad teams have to fight through bad luck or being dumb , maybe one magical player turns things around .

The Colts had the top two picks and selected Steve Emtmen , who promptly blew out his knees and also picked Quinton Coryatt from Texas A&M via Baytown , who I guess never really prospered .

The next time they picked #1 overall they did pretty good ( Manning ) . What happens if they picked Cryin Ryan ... they would still stink in my opinion .
 
WWJD said:
Thanks Vinny! I try to catch his show so thought MAYBE that's where I heard that. Well I tend to believe that then. When you can't sign #1A you move on to #1B. Makes sense.
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Wow I am really shocked by that now! The folks on the board rag on The General and now I know why. I stream 610 all day 5 days a week in my office while I work and that is the complete opposite of the line Mclame has been pushing since the draft. According to his original story Kubiak wanted Bush up until the final week when he went back and watched film on both and changed his mind. Claimed Kubiak walked into Casserly's office and said he wanted to draft Mario. So WTF is up with changing the story now? Denver has picked allot of Defensive players high in the draft so the original story seemed to fit that Kubiak m ight have decieded to go Defense thinking he could scheme for lesser talent offensive players. Has the General decided he can tell the truth now or has he forgotten his original story?
 
The story I heard was that they offered a contract to Reggie..he turned it down. They didn't want a contract problem so they decided to offer it to Mario which of course he signed.
 
This is a subject which never stops giving it would seem, and its gonna be fun to see how people would draft the class of 2006 in bout 3 years ?
Right now I kinda expect the 3 QBs (VY, Cutler, & Leinert) will be the top 3 and after that who knows, but I suspect that one or more of the other backs, Drew-Jones or Addai or Maroney, will be ranked ahead of Bush.
Bush certainly was a first round value, but where I dunno ?
 
Bush is not a bust wow guys come on he had a great rookie year(better than mario atleast). Over time Duece will leave and reggie will be starting that will be the real test.
 
JohnsonFan said:
Bush is not a bust wow guys come on he had a great rookie year(better than mario atleast). Over time Duece will leave and reggie will be starting that will be the real test.
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He had a good year not great! He was more of a receiver than a RB and he was only the second best rookie receiver on the team.

The way the money and expectations have gotten out of control for top 3 picks it will soon be a rare occurence for a player to live up to expectations.
 
WWJD said:
The story I heard was that they offered a contract to Reggie..he turned it down. They didn't want a contract problem so they decided to offer it to Mario which of course he signed.
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There is a lot to that. There is no reason that the number one pick in the draft should not have a deal done before the draft actually happens. Just take a look at the Raiders. The season has started and they're still dealing with a holdout...
 
Double Barrel said:
I disagree.

Signed,

Vince Young
OROY, Pro Bowler, Madden cover

:shades:
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DB

VY was a ProBowl alternate, Maurice Jones-Drew deserved the OROY more, and the Madden cover is about making EA Sports money. After VY won the OROY it became apparent to me that it was just a popularity contest and not based on their actual play.
 
BattleRedToro said:
DB

VY was a ProBowl alternate, Maurice Jones-Drew deserved the OROY more, and the Madden cover is about making EA Sports money. After VY won the OROY it became apparent to me that it was just a popularity contest and not based on their actual play.
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so a backup RB deserved OROY more than a starting QB that helped lead his team to an unprecedented 8 straight wins after the team started the season 0-5? whatever man, your anti-VY bias leaves you with little credibility in issues regarding Vince.

You are 100% correct that VY was a Pro Bowl alternate and WAS NOT one of the Top 3 QBs in the AFC. The OROY was well deserved and prudent. As far as Madden 2008 goes....who cares? It's a damn video game.

VY had a great rookie campaign. I ain't crowning the guy but to say a backup RB deserved OROY over a starting QB that made many many plays that turned the tide of games is just pure drivel.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
so a backup RB deserved OROY more than a starting QB that helped lead his team to an unprecedented 8 straight wins after the team started the season 0-5? whatever man, your anti-VY bias leaves you with little credibility in issues regarding Vince.

You are 100% correct that VY was a Pro Bowl alternate and WAS NOT one of the Top 3 QBs in the AFC. The OROY was well deserved and prudent. As far as Madden 2008 goes....who cares? It's a damn video game.

VY had a great rookie campaign. I ain't crowning the guy but to say a backup RB deserved OROY over a starting QB that made many many plays that turned the tide of games is just pure drivel.
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He may have been a backup but 941 yds rushing at 5.7 ypc with 13 rushing TD's and 436 yds recieving at 9.5 ypr with 2 recieving TD's is better than any statline that you can throw out there for Vince Young. Also, your claim of an 8 game winning streak is patently false. The Titans started the season 0-3 with Kerry Collins as the starter. Then, Vince Young became the starter and the Titans continued to lose their next 2 games. Next they won 2 games and then lost 2 more. Finally they had a 6 game winning streak that was ended by a clutch perfomance by the perpetual winner Vince Young against the New England Patriots that cost them their chance to make the playoffs. Check your facts next time before you rant at me.
 
Double Barrel said:
I disagree.

Signed,

Vince Young
OROY, Pro Bowler, Madden cover

:shades:
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The Titans won a lot of games and VY always gets all the credit cause he was the leader. But exactly how much of his leading do think influenced that genius Pac Mac who damn near single handedly won them two games including one in which the defense returned multiple turn overs for touchdowns and VY threw for 87 yards. In my opinion which is worth nothing to anyone but me is that VY got way to much credit for the Titans turn around last year. He did pull some typical heroics but a Jeff Fisher team will not just lay down and die so improvement during the years was inevitable.
 
it was one game...............Reggie > Mario.....Reggie > the majority of the rookies last season.........Reggie = a difference maker.......he's not an every down back, but he is a threat as a runner and receiver.......
 
Htownsportsfan said:
The Titans won a lot of games and VY always gets all the credit cause he was the leader. But exactly how much of his leading do think influenced that genius Pac Mac who damn near single handedly won them two games including one in which the defense returned multiple turn overs for touchdowns and VY threw for 87 yards. In my opinion which is worth nothing to anyone but me is that VY got way to much credit for the Titans turn around last year. He did pull some typical heroics but a Jeff Fisher team will not just lay down and die so improvement during the years was inevitable.
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As Texans fans, we of all people should know that QB's get way too much credit for a win & way too much blame for a loss.

I really dont think that VY's case is any different. If the Titans win, its because he is such a great leader & if they lose, its because he cant throw & hes a run-first QB.
 
kastofsna said:
luckily for you guys, i'm taking a year off as far as the draft goes. life is going fast now, there's a kid on the way (yes, a li'l kastofsna), getting a house, new opportunities at work...just don't have the time or energy to focus on the college game as much.

but i'll still be here, don't worry. :heart:
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Congrats.... Get ready for :wild:
 
VY = the reason the Titans did good last year and the reason why some are picking them as a playoff team...........even without Pacman Jones...............VY = the real deal
 
JohnsonFan said:
Bush is not a bust wow guys come on he had a great rookie year(better than mario atleast). Over time Duece will leave and reggie will be starting that will be the real test.
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Apples and Oranges... Can't compare Defensive stats to Offensive stats
 
but seriously how do people expect him to have "great" rushing numbers when he isn't even the primary back????....I'm sorry but if we could have Reggie Bush on this team right now I'd take him in a heart beat!!!
 
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