Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Actually, the WC offense is predicated on shorter, underneath routes. It's a ball control offense. Although, to be more effective, you have to be able to stretch the field once in a while.
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I get excited about it. The reason I guess is that you ( or not you, but a defense ) have to give more respect to a deep field with a QB that can hit one.
It creates more room to make plays in. If a QB is real erratic or cannot throw a deep pass that well or quickly, then as a defense a guy slipping the safties is not that big of a concern ( in effect, you can concentrate on or cheat towards the line ).
Major Applewhite is a good example. He couldn't throw a deep pass and this limited his ability and value as a QB.
Actually, the WC offense is predicated on shorter, underneath routes. It's a ball control offense. Although, to be more effective, you have to be able to stretch the field once in a while.
I'm not sure why it's not to shabby when VY does it but when our QB throw anything around the 200 mark he is criticized for minimal yardage?
I know your stance on Carr TK, and I know you did'nt mention him in your post. I was just commenting on the irony!
Vince Young will get to the Super Bowl before Cutler does.
Really. Why? How can you tell after one year?![]()
I still havn't seem one viable plan after we let Carr go.
I wonder where some of you posters get your opinions from because it is certainly not the facts. "...limited ability and value as a QB." Did you know that Major is UT's all-time leader-in among other things- passing yds (between 8-9000) and 60tds? Did you know that Applewhite got these stats despite 'riding' the bench for a year and a half so Sims could start? Applewhie threw the ball all over the field and was a very accurate passer and didn't get 8000+ yds in 30 games by dinkin' and dunkin.'
Major was not drafted by the pros because of his bad knees (limited mobility) and height. He was signed by the Patriots as a FA and eventually signed on by the Pats but-because of his knees-gave back his signing bonus...since then, he has become a 'top notch' coach moving up the collegiate ladder--now on Nick Saban's staff at Alabama.
http://riceowls.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/applewhite_major00.html
Applewhite was one of the best college quarterbacks in America. But being one of the best QBs in the country does not always translate to NFL success. At best Applewhite has a mediocre arm, but his terrific leadership skills and his ability to play well in so many big games convinced the Patriots to sign him as a free agent when he went undrafted in April.
The Patriots, meanwhile, were being honest with Applewhite. After drafting LSU's Rohan Davey in the fourth round, they knew that it would take a preseason injury to one of the top three quarterbacks -- Tom Brady, Damon Huard, Davey -- for Applewhite to have any chance of making the team. Plus, New England coach Bill Belichick knew that Applewhite would never have the arm to succeed at a high level in the pros.
Not with that defense. People tend to forget them and make Carr the "Scapegoat boy". Giving him too much credit in wins and too much credit in losses. In case anyone was looking, the defense lost the game to VY, and that's when the Carr threads started to pour on.Sign Garcia, Draft Levi Brown.
win 10 games.
I still havn't seem one viable plan after we let Carr go.
Not with that defense. People tend to forget them and make Carr the "Scapegoat boy". Giving him too much credit in wins and too much credit in losses. In case anyone was looking, the defense lost the game to VY, and that's when the Carr threads started to pour on.
Sign Garcia, Draft Levi Brown.
win 10 games.
Sheer genius. Hello, Mr. McNair? Please replace Rick Smith immediately.
no, David fumbled the ball twice. once, right after Kubiak told him to take care of the ball. Then getting himself benched in that game, of all games, turned a lot of posters on David Carr.
We take two knees. & go to OT.
You are mixing two games together.
In the 1st TN game Carr fumbled twice and got benched. In the 2nd TN game Carr didn't fumble and the game went to OT.
Wow, how about Andre throwing David under the bus? I hope the next QB has the guts to get in Johnson's grill the next time he drops a gimme, quits on a route, or lets a DB get inside him for a pick. Clearly, Carr doesn't.
Finally, the obliquitory question: Who is Adam Schein?
Your newsflash is wrong!
Why because Jake has played on better teams, a lot better teams. Rub the dirt out of your eyes, when comparring one player to another look at the team as a whole, thats the only way you can do it.
And Jake is not better then David Carr, not even close.
Well. Well. Well. Another Carr bashing/loving thread. Geez this board is getting predictable.
As someone who had Carr's back going into the year, I for one was very disappointed in his play in 06.
However, I saw some changes in the offense after we lost 3 offensive lineman in one game.
Naked bootlegs with the QB throwing on the run. What happened to those?
They seemed to work so well early in the season.
What happened to the zone blocking scheme?
Also, Carr locked into AJ way too much. Can he be improved?
I submit exhibit 1...Jake Plummer
If the Kube can improve Jake he can improve Carr.
Remember...The Kube O is not something that is learned overnight. Even "The Great Jake" other posters are clamoring for took a couple of years to get it down.
DC is the most durable player I have seen in this league in a long time. Name me one QB in the NFL that could have taken the kind of beating this kid has taken the last 5 years and still not be slurring his words like Mahommed Ali?
Name one! Even the great P. Manning and Tom Brady would be sitting in a rubber room with a helmet on if they had taken that kind of pounding.
I agree with other posters.
If you can't upgrade the position, you have to keep him. Wait for a better QB class in the 08 draft and get your new franchise QB. If you wanted to upgrade through FA, Drew Brees was the guy you should have went after.
And no! Chris Simms, Sage Rosenfels, Jake Plummer or <insert your favorite backup QB name here> would not be an upgrade.![]()
Why because Jake has played on better teams, a lot better teams. Rub the dirt out of your eyes, when comparring one player to another look at the team as a whole, thats the only way you can do it.
And Jake is not better then David Carr, not even close.
Except his record and stats. I forgot, you saw him dodge a whole bunch of kids after they 5 Mississippi'ed him and his threw a laser to little Billy. Even a crappy Jake got the Cards to one playoff game. Your proof is no better than anyone elses.
... and neither is your assertion.
Isn't that what "anyone elses" means? Honestly I think someones stats under the same coach say something. Add to that the fact that he didn't have that same talent under a rudder-less Cards team and I'll give him credit for getting them to the playoffs and winning a game. Is he the savior?No. But what I just pointed out puts him ahead of who we have.
No it doesn't. Same coach but different team. Can't compare.
No it doesn't. Same coach but different team. Can't compare.
Just Curious.
Do you think the Cards should have stuck with Warner??
Do you think the 'boys should have stuck with Bledsoe??
Do you think the Dolphins should have stuck with Cullpepper??
Do you think the Titan's should have stuck with Collins??
Do you think the Raiders should have stuck with Brooks??
Just Curious.
Do you think the Cards should have stuck with Warner?? vs Plummer, yes
Do you think the 'boys should have stuck with Bledsoe??vs Plummer, yes
Do you think the Dolphins should have stuck with Cullpepper??vs Plummer, no until Culpepper is fully recovered
Do you think the Titan's should have stuck with Collins??vs Plummer, yes
Do you think the Raiders should have stuck with Brooks??vs Plummer, toss up, pick your poison
If you can't upgrade the position, you have to keep him. Wait for a better QB class in the 08 draft and get your new franchise QB. If you wanted to upgrade through FA, Drew Brees was the guy you should have went after.
And no! Chris Simms, Sage Rosenfels, Jake Plummer or <insert your favorite backup QB name here> would not be an upgrade.![]()
This is what it all boils down to. Whether, in your opinion, it's possible to upgrade the QB position by going to someone other than Carr. And that's the point of all the discussion. Some people think that Carr is better than the alternatives and some people think that the alternatives are better than Carr. In my opinion, which is different than yours but just as valid (ie, either of us could be wrong), Carr has been irreparably broken and there are many QB's out there that would be an upgrade. A significant upgrade.
Why do you think Carr would be hard to replace?
No, no, no, no, and no. Fortunately these teams had an opportunity to upgrade: Leinart, Romo, Harrington, Young...... But I do think that the Texans should stay with Carr more year. I don't want an old veteran and I don't see a young QB that's available. If Plummer is all we can get, I'd rather spend the dollars building up the rest of the team, give Carr another year, and see how it goes.
Lienart vs Plummer = Lienart
Romo vs Plummer = Romo
Harrington vs Plummer = Plummer
Young vs Plummer = Young
Walters vs Plummer = Walters
This is what it all boils down to. Whether, in your opinion, it's possible to upgrade the QB position by going to someone other than Carr. And that's the point of all the discussion. Some people think that Carr is better than the alternatives and some people think that the alternatives are better than Carr. In my opinion, which is different than yours but just as valid (ie, either of us could be wrong), Carr has been irreparably broken and there are many QB's out there that would be an upgrade. A significant upgrade.
Why do you think Carr would be hard to replace?
No, no, no, no, and no. Fortunately these teams had an opportunity to upgrade: Leinart, Romo, Harrington, Young...... But I do think that the Texans should stay with Carr more year. I don't want an old veteran and I don't see a young QB that's available. If Plummer is all we can get, I'd rather spend the dollars building up the rest of the team, give Carr another year, and see how it goes.
The fact that Plummer actually won with Arizona makes it even more considering some above are saying Plummer is Carr in 5 years..with the exception of a playoff win on a horrible team.
I guess there are 2 different trains of thought here....
1. Just get to the playoffs at 10-6. Lose in the first round with an old QB that will have to be replaced again.
2. Build a dynasty.
For me. I prefer option #2.
If you can really upgrade at the QB position, with a young QB. Then go for it.
If you want Sage, make him compete for the job. Make Carr compete for the job. Hell. Make Van Pelt compete for the job. Cut Carr's salary. I don't really care.
The laundry list for the Texans is almost as long as the Federal Budget document the President sends to Congress.
Please...
Spend the money wisely. Don't ignore the other obvious problems on the team by just focusing on the QB spot.
You can have a great QB.
But if your defense is horrible. No running game. No O line.
The results will be the same.
If you want option #2, then the 08 draft is your best shot for a QB upgrade unless someone like Matt Hasselbeck falls into your lap this off season.
OK, if we follow your scenario then you sign Plummer to go 10-6 and lose in the first round while he starts again in year #2 with the rookie of your choice learning the system from a guy who has gone to the playoffs multiple times under the coach OR you have a rookie from 07 learn under the same guy too. That's just from your scenario....without the drama of the QB deal we have now.
If you want Sage, make him compete for the job. Make Carr compete for the job. Hell. Make Van Pelt compete for the job. Cut Carr's salary. I don't really care.
Sorry. You won't change my mind on ABC or Plummer. We will have to agree to disagree.
Plummer will want too much cash. We have to spread the money around.
Get by with the 3 QBs you already have for the time being. The bed was made, now we have to lay in it.
If Kubiak did wonders for Plummer (I mean we are talking about Jake Plummer right?), he can do wonders for the other QBs we already have.
Anyone who has watched the NFL knows that not all QBs are created equally. The sad part is that the convo is Jake v. Carr. That is sad in itself. The biggest problem is that you can only "get by" for so long. That is why you start losing the AJs and others to free agency. I'll agree to disagree though and I'll take that 10-6 and the Texans first playoff appearance. I think most would. One of the first things you do to change a team is to change the atmosphere of losing. Another "get by" year doesn't do it.
still waiting for your response to getting called out on your 20 teams spewage on the other thread hulk.....
What would you like me to do, tell you were and who i have heard it from? why in the bloody heck would i share anything with most! of you? there are people who know around here, I dont care to say who, they know.
Like I said what is my reson for lying? Why would I just make it up, you guys allready hate him so what does it matter right? I drop stuff on here from time to time for people who acctually care and trust me.
I write things and you think I am lying, well I am not a guy that goes around deseving people and lying to make others look good. You can believe me or not, thats up to you, I dont need to defend what I write because it is what it is. You guys make me laugh, who do you think might know a little something, you or me? I said 20 so you can believe it is 20 or not. You dont cause you think he is bad, and not having resources like other successfull QB means nothing to you. It is Carr, it is all on him, we want Quinn we want this guy, even Jake Plummer is better now, anyone but Carr, BUT 20 think other wise, I will blow your doors off with another bit, 1 team even offered a 1 rd pick!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Bill Walsh called him and told him how much he likes to watch Carr play, and how much respect he has for him, and he called to tell Carr that they would be crazy to get rid of him. So you can think I am lying about that to if you would like.
Where ever he goes, it will be were God wants him to be.
And Carr is better then Jake.
Hey believe me or not, it does not bother me. I send little things out for people who acctually care to read it, we have a saying, "You dont need to lie to hang out".
If Kubiak had not told McNair to pull the $8,000,000 trigger last year, I might tend to agree with you.
And remember...
Plummer did not just click under Kubiak his first year either.
What would you like me to do, tell you were and who i have heard it from? why in the bloody heck would i share anything with most! of you? there are people who know around here, I dont care to say who, they know.
Like I said what is my reson for lying? Why would I just make it up, you guys allready hate him so what does it matter right? I drop stuff on here from time to time for people who acctually care and trust me.
I write things and you think I am lying, well I am not a guy that goes around deseving people and lying to make others look good. You can believe me or not, thats up to you, I dont need to defend what I write because it is what it is. You guys make me laugh, who do you think might know a little something, you or me? I said 20 so you can believe it is 20 or not. You dont cause you think he is bad, and not having resources like other successfull QB means nothing to you. It is Carr, it is all on him, we want Quinn we want this guy, even Jake Plummer is better now, anyone but Carr, BUT 20 think other wise, I will blow your doors off with another bit, 1 team even offered a 1 rd pick!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Bill Walsh called him and told him how much he likes to watch Carr play, and how much respect he has for him, and he called to tell Carr that they would be crazy to get rid of him. So you can think I am lying about that to if you would like.
Where ever he goes, it will be were God wants him to be.
And Carr is better then Jake.
Hey believe me or not, it does not bother me. I send little things out for people who acctually care to read it, we have a saying, "You dont need to lie to hang out".
Here is what I don't get and none of you, myself included can answer. Romo was a 3rd stringer all his life and pretty much a guy no one was talking about UNTIL Parcells had the guts to replace Bledsoe. All of a sudden the line of the Cowboys looked alot better, etc. None of you can sit here and say that Romo is an upgrade on anyone on the list pre-replacement. Same with Leinart..a rookie who hadn't played or Young, whom many on this board said couldn't hold Carr's or others jock strap. Harrington was a castoff and was backing up an ex-pro bowler who was supposed to get the Dolphins to the SB. So how can any one you without hindsight say that these guys were/are better. Yet we are supposed to ignore the fact that MAYBE Rosenfels and Plummer might be better than our alternative? You are making the anti-Carr argument. Guys who weren't supposed to play and who were backups or rookies making a difference. The fact that Plummer actually won with Arizona makes it even more considering some above are saying Plummer is Carr in 5 years..with the exception of a playoff win on a horrible team.
P.S..I'm looking up and seeing TK wrote some similar things. Sorry. I just don't get the circular reasoning which makes no sense. The only reason people are answering those QBs are better is because of hindsight...at the time they were inserted they were non-entities. Sound familiar. Without seeing what else they can do, none of those aother guys would have improved their team.
So we are actually shopping Carr?? Or is that still just media propaganda??BUT 20 think other wise, I will blow your doors off with another bit, 1 team even offered a 1 rd pick!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Ok....Bill Walsh called him and told him how much he likes to watch Carr play, and how much respect he has for him, and he called to tell Carr that they would be crazy to get rid of him. So you can think I am lying about that to if you would like.
Glad to hear that.Where ever he goes, it will be were God wants him to be.
That is not the point.And Carr is better then Jake.
Hey believe me or not, it does not bother me. I send little things out for people who acctually care to read it, we have a saying, "You dont need to lie to hang out".
Where ever he goes, it will be were God wants him to be.
And Carr is better then Jake.
I just don't buy into the ABC (Anyone But Carr) train of thought. He's not a great QB and probably has been too damaged. However, that anyone could be someone like A. Brooks.
Like others have said. With his contract, it would be very difficult to get enough value in return. If it makes people sleep better, renegotiate his contract. Make him compete for the starting job. Whatever.
I do not think you could get someone like Garcia, Huard, or Schaub to come in learn the offense and get the Texans to the playoffs next year. This team has way too many holes to fill.
Money that would be spent to get a washed up, has been/never was, like Plummer could be better spent addressing the other needs.
Face it. Casserly/Capers did significant damage to the team with their personnel moves. Anyone remember Tony Boselli?
It will take another year or two to dig out of the hole they put the Texans into.
Just grin and bear it until a quality young QB comes along in 08 draft and work on the other areas needing fixing.
Plummer = Carr 5 years from now.
What would you like me to do, tell you were and who i have heard it from? why in the bloody heck would i share anything with most! of you? there are people who know around here, I dont care to say who, they know.
Like I said what is my reson for lying? Why would I just make it up, you guys allready hate him so what does it matter right? I drop stuff on here from time to time for people who acctually care and trust me.
I write things and you think I am lying, well I am not a guy that goes around deseving people and lying to make others look good. You can believe me or not, thats up to you, I dont need to defend what I write because it is what it is. You guys make me laugh, who do you think might know a little something, you or me? I said 20 so you can believe it is 20 or not. You dont cause you think he is bad, and not having resources like other successfull QB means nothing to you. It is Carr, it is all on him, we want Quinn we want this guy, even Jake Plummer is better now, anyone but Carr, BUT 20 think other wise, I will blow your doors off with another bit, 1 team even offered a 1 rd pick!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Bill Walsh called him and told him how much he likes to watch Carr play, and how much respect he has for him, and he called to tell Carr that they would be crazy to get rid of him. So you can think I am lying about that to if you would like.
Where ever he goes, it will be were God wants him to be.
And Carr is better then Jake.
Hey believe me or not, it does not bother me. I send little things out for people who acctually care to read it, we have a saying, "You dont need to lie to hang out".