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Vince Young does not rule ass

Wow. Just amazing. I hate the fact VY is not here where he should be leading this team to the playoffs. I respect the job Jeff Fisher and Norm Chow are doing with Vince in installing plays that makes him feel comfortable so the team can thrive.
 
I don't intend to take anything away from what VY's done so far, but... I heard Dick Jauron had a huge retard moment at the end of the game. Like, huge.
 
I just read what happened. Bills driving into a 20 mph win 29 yards away (which makes it about 44 yard FG in the wind). I don't know, tough call. I would have gone for the kick. But I don't live in Buffalo, so I don't know how strong a 20 mph wind would be to knock a football off of its trajectory.
 
Okay just seeing why he went for it on 4th and 5 at the 30 instead of going for the FG.

Doughboy, you have promising quotation skills, but you have much to learn, young padawan. :)

doughboy said:
Eli manning one of the best...asses Ive seen.
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Keep at it.
 
well guess no one here was watching the game. PUNTS going that direction were averaging 29 yards. No way a 44FG would have been made
 
The Titans offense may be beginning to gel. I didn't see Young's 30-40 yard TD run yet, but from what I've heard it was a pretty impressive team effort. Young was back to pass, and just as he was deciding to run the RT, RG, and center all took off and led him down the field. They are getting to know how to play together - they sensed it was time to go.

Pretty scary.
 
I just watched the highlights on nfl.com and that 4th and 2 run was amazing. He just glides his way to the endzone. His o-line did an awesome job blocking for him. He's amazing.
 
the run wasn't that impressive from an individual standpoint. the team played it perfectly, including young, but he had a wall in front of him, which you wouldn't expect on an improvised play.
 
kastofsna said:
the run wasn't that impressive from an individual standpoint. the team played it perfectly, including young, but he had a wall in front of him, which you wouldn't expect on an improvised play.
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No doubt - that's what started this little off-shoot of the conversation.
 
Hmmm, I can't help but wonder how many QB's could make that run even if the play were designed. Designed, improvised, whatever--that play does not occur without VY at the helm. That was vintage VY. He will make plenty of plays completely of his own accord and that will make it possible to design numerous plays that use the entirety of the team to powerful effect. He makes his team better and they, in turn make him even more effective. One of the biggest "it" qualities VY has is this synergetic effect which he has ignited with every team he has ever played with. Through respect, leadership, humility, ability, and voracious work ethic on and off the field, he wills his teammates to meet their maximum potential, and that allows him to display the totality of his abilities.

I don't care if it's a Pinto or a Ferrari. If Mario Andretti is behind the wheel, it will perform better than if just about anyone else is driving it.
 
VY is a very talented QB and his running ability is unquesitioned, but I don;t believe. He will have a good career and one maybe two superbowl games. Only one running QB has ever won the SB. Know who that was?
 
I can think of three scrambling QB's that won the SB. A few of the media are starting to catch on with comparisons to one of them, namely Steve Young. In addition to Steve Young, you have John Elway and Roger Staubach. The biggest mistake people make, I think, looking at VY is to consider him to be a "running QB".

I will assume that you didn't watch him at UT with regularity. Most NFL fans probably didn't watch him weekly. Check his progression over three years and look at his passing stats. Yes he runs, but he is a pass first QB with a freakish knack of awarness as to where pressure is coming from. From his first to his third year his passing skill developed phenomenally; he could throw from the pocket or on the run, and he knew when to throw and when to run.

He is already showing flashes of all those skills in an abbreviated rookie season. His first year in the NFL should be like his first in the NCAA; he's learning a new offense at a whole new level of football. And yet, he's already 8-4, he's already beginning to follow his progressions competently, even exceptionally at times. He's already looking off his receivers well, especially in three of the last four games. He already suggests tweaks in the offensive game plan to Fisher and Chow based on what is going on in game time. Most importantly--and I think a lot of people miss this--because the game is slowing down for him so quickly, he is already beginning to be able to see an open man and yet see an open running lane and quickly determine which has a better chance at being successful initially as well as which will get the defense off-balance more in terms of successive plays to follow in the game. This is what everyone is referring to as, "It looks like the Rose Bowl all over again." He did this constantly at UT in his second and third years. Its not a fluke; he could see the field so clearly that he often had an open man but had the time and the poise to make a decision as to if running would be potentially more sucessful...and he was usually right. (You are going to love watching him and be amazed by how much room for growth he has and will display in the next two years. You'll come to believe.) And he is only a rookie, with many unproven young players around him, some sub-par to average players at critical skill positions, and numerous injuries to overcome.

The rookie who wasn't even suppose to start this year, or be successful for three years according to the pundits has taken an 0-5 team which many thought was the worst team in the NFL, playing the toughest schedule, and positioned them on the brink of the playoffs with a game to go and a chance to get in. And if they do get in? They've beaten Indy and played them to within a point, they lost to the Jets by less than a touchdown before he was starting, they were a blocked FG away from beating Balt., they will have beaten New England....and he is just a rookie.

He brings his team back like Elway, he leads his team like Montana, he scrambles/runs like Vick or S. Young. And I predict within the next two years he'll start to make many Farve-like passes, without nearly so many interceptions. His rookie stats are already better than Elway, Marino, and McNabb, in fewer games. When its all said and done he will revolutionize the QB position--I don't doubt that at all. But for now, he is just a rookie....so take a look at this compilation of information put together by an astute poster over at Hornfans.com. In the last five games, only three QBs have a higher PER in the NFL, and that does not take into account his rushing....basically, VY, a rookie, with less than stellar talent, has been the best QB in the NFL over the last five games, the playoff drive, and that includes his "horrible" game from last week.

"I'm sure this is too much data for most--but it surprised and interested me. Key takeaway--Vince is stomping everyone's butt in every meaningful QB way. I think he's 3rd in PER, and I'd bet that if we look at Huck's formula that includes rushing he'd be #1 by a good margin.

Vince (Rookie) : 79-124 (63.7%), 898 yards, 6 TD's, 3 INT's. 91.40 PER. 38 rushes, 298 yards, 3 TD's. 5-0 record.

Cutler (rookie, started playing/starting 4 games ago): 60-105 (57.1%), 771 yards, 8 TD's, 4 INT's. 89.82 PER. 10 rushes, 19 yards, 0 TD's. 2-2 record.

Leinart (rookie, injured today and out next week): 96-157 (61.2%), 1199 yards, 5 TD's, 5 INT's. 82.21 PER. 6 rushes, 20 yards, 0 TD's. 3-2 record.

Gradkowski (rookie pulled for Rattay last week and didn't play this week, so 4 games): 48-89 (53.9%), 453 yards, 0 TD's, 5 INT's. 44.83 PER. 12 rushes, 51 yards, 0 TD's. 0-4 record.

Alex Smith (2nd-year): 71-136 (52.2%), 872 yards, 5 TD's, 8 INT's. 60.06 PER. 9 rushes, 37 yards, 1 TD. 1-4 record.

Jason Campbell (2nd-year): 70-142 (49.3%), 881 yards, 6 TD's, 5 INT's. 68.43 PER. 15 rushes, 71 yards, 0 TD's. 2-3 record.

D. Anderson (2nd-year, 4 games): 66-117 (56.4%), 793 yards, 5 TD's, 8 INT's. 63.09 PER. 4 rushes, 47 yards, 0 TD's. 1-3 record.

A. Walter (2nd-year, 5 games but he sat 3 in the middle): 77-128 (60.2%), 752 yards, 0 TD’s, 4 INT’s. 63.67 PER. 3 rushes, -1 yards, 0 TD’s. 0-5 record.

Rivers (3rd-year, 1st-year starter) : 64-136 (47.1%), 850 yards, 5 TD's, 3 INT's. 70.40 PER. 18 rushes, 3 yards, 0 TD's. 5-0 record.

Roethlisberger (3rd-year): 69-135 (51.1%), 918 yards, 5 TD's, 5 INT's. 69.92 PER. 14 rushes, 50 yards, 2 TD's. 3-2 record.

Losnan (3rd-year): 84-132 (63.6%), 976 yards, 8 TD's, 5 INT's. 90.34 PER. 12 rushes, 36 yards, 0 TD's. 3-2 record.

Eli Manning (3rd-year): 96-162 (59.3%), 941 yards, 7 TD's, 5 INT's. 77.21 PER. 9 rushes, 22 yards. 0 TD's. 1-4 record.

Palmer (4th-year): 101-160 (63.1%), 1191 yards, 8 TD's, 6 INT's. 86.74 PER. 8 rushes, 14 yards, 0 TD's. 2-3 record.

Romo (4th-year, doesn't include 12/25 Eagles game yet, so it's 4 games): 70-125 (56.0%), 1090 yards, 8 TD's, 5 INT's. 89.75 PER. 11 rushes, 6 yards, 0 TD's. 3-1 record.

Grossman (4th-year): 83-156 (53.2%), 1046 yards, 5 TD's, 6 INT's. 69.02 PER. 9 rushes, 12 yards, 0 TD's. 4-1 record.

Carr (5th-year): 95-142 (66.9%), 785 yards, 2 TD's, 5 INT's. 70.89 PER. 11 rushes, 35 yards, 0 TD's. 2-3 record.

Harrington (5th-year--not including 12/25 Dolphins game so it's 4 games): 69-118 (58.5%), 690 yards, 5 TD's, 5 INT's. 71.65 PER. 7 rushes, 12 yards. 2-2 record."

Vick (6th-year): 56-107 (52.3%), 707 yards, 6 TD's, 4 INT's. 76.34 PER. 37 rushes, 318 yards, 0 TD's. 2-3 record.

I didn't bother listing anyone with 5+ years except Vick. Including the veterans, Vince's past five games compare favorably with any QB in the NFL.

Peyton Manning (101.82 PER), Tom Brady (89.85 PER), & Steve McNair (95.95 PER) were the only ones I'd put ahead of him, statistically. In the key stat, however, Peyton is 2-3, Brady's 4-1, and McNair's 4-1 over the past five games. Only Rivers can match his 5-0 mark."

And this doesn't take into account VY's unique WILL to win. He is a living, breathing football jedi. I will tell you right now that I believe, when he is done, he will have been the best there has ever been.
 
Yes, you do have it wrong, essentially. VY went to them and convinced them to change to offense to showcase his method of passing/running as well as giving him more freedom at the line to determine the course of the play based one what the defense set up and did initially after the snap. Basically, at first they tried (GD tried) to force him into a more traditional offense/ QB style that limited him to staying in the pocket more and shunned, respectively, as a designed play, the run. VY convinced them to let him roam outside the pocket as well as stay in the pocket, throw on the move, and take the run when it was the best available play depending on the read on the defense. From that point on, he became the dominant college force the nation witnessed. The decision to let VY control more of the decision process, use his scrambling prowess outside of the pocket, as well as implement running plays designed to showcase his legs led to amazing production in the air and on the ground. Both aspects of his game improved from that point on, but most noticably, his passing game. But, he still looked to pass first unless the play was designed specifically for him to run. Many, most, of the time, however, it was his job to react to the defense and pass/run based on what they did. Don't believe me, don't care if you do.....look at the stats and the film, they don't lie. Basically, if VY had a NFL coach that didn't recognize that the old "prototypical" QB style is not his style, and not at all necessary, they would have stunted his growth. Fortunately, they saw the tape, they understood it, and they are acting accordingly. Smart coaches. Yep, you were wrong. Just like more than one "running" QB has won a SuperBowl
 
One more thing. When you look up the stats, remember that in most games he would come out during the third quarter, many times after his first offensive drive of the half. So, those freakish, never before accomplished pass/run stats are based off of less than three quarters play on average.

It wasn't an offense designed for a running QB, it was an offense designed with the awareness that the QB could run.
 
the offense was changed at texas because of young's inability to pick up the pro-style system. doesn't really matter now though.
 
VY's strenght is, has been, and always will be the ability to carry his team on his back, even if he puts the team in the hole, he'll jump out. I doubt he'll be a Peyton Manning anytime soon.
 
I'm not a pro-scout nor do I pretend to be. But here's my $0.02 on what I've been able to see of VY in games against the Texans & the few games I've seen on the NFL package Short-cuts on the dish.

At UT, VY made 1-read & ran. In the Pro's, he's making one read & usually throwing to his 1st read. He hasn't run as much as in college. I'm sure the coaching staff has told him to only run when necessary. While there's no denying his physical attributes, I don't think VY is a "great" passer. Right now, to me, he's average. VY throws best making short throws. To me, I don't think he throws the deep routes very well. Not to say he hasn't or can't complete deep passes, but they don't seem consistently accurate. That could be why the Titans don't throw the ball deep alot. Also, I don't think he can read defenses all that well. I think the coaches have set the offense up so he can have the most success with his first read & not have to think too much. I think the coaching he's getting over there has helped him alot. His stat's aren't great, but he's done just enough to get his team winning. However, I think I still would have chosen Leinart over VY if I were drafting. The throws Leinart was making against the then vaunted Bears D on that Monday night game was quite impressive. Too bad they went ultra-coservative in the 2nd half. He carved the Bears D before they had all the injuries they do now. That was impressive. I don't think VY would have had that kind of game passing against them. Just my opinion. In the end, only time will tell if VY is bad, mediocre, or super.
 
kbourda said:
At the end of the day, what else matters?
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Well, that's true... but I think his stats are better than most imagine. He's second in the NFL in yards per carry, 1st among QBs in rushing TDs, has run for tons of first downs on 3rd down (not sure the exact rank), and has a nearly identical passer rating to Peyton Manning's rookie year. He's got a passer rating of 90 for his last 5 games, and none below 70 in that span. I think his play over that span has been more indicative of his ability than the whole season, as he's got a better grasp of the game/system and is running now.
 
I've never been a fan of the NFL's QB passer rating's formula. But I'm sure there will always be somebody that will point to Vince's 69.7 QB rating and use it as evidence.

But then you look at his QB rating progression per month:
September - 56.4
October - 61.6
November - 67.2
December - 84.9

Then look at his completion percentage (biggest factor in QB ratings):
September - 41.7
October - 48.9
November - 50.8
December - 61.8

Then look at his rushing average:
September - 4.8
October - 5.0
November - 6.1
December - 8.2

Anybody else see a trend?

All this for somebody that was supposed to take 3 years before he'd be ready for the league.

But, but, but....his wonderlic score....
 
Huge said:
I've never been a fan of the NFL's QB passer rating's formula. But I'm sure there will always be somebody that will point to Vince's 69.7 QB rating and use it as evidence.

But then you look at his QB rating progression per month:
September - 56.4
October - 61.6
November - 67.2
December - 84.9

Then look at his completion percentage (biggest factor in QB ratings):
September - 41.7
October - 48.9
November - 50.8
December - 61.8

Then look at his rushing average:
September - 4.8
October - 5.0
November - 6.1
December - 8.2

Anybody else see a trend?

All this for somebody that was supposed to take 3 years before he'd be ready for the league.

But, but, but....his wonderlic score....
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The Wonderlic is a great indicator for heart and leadership. :rolleyes:
 
young DOESN'T throw a great deep ball. it's generally more of a jump ball than anything. he can wing it 60 yards, but it's hardly accurate.
 
Huge said:
I've never been a fan of the NFL's QB passer rating's formula. But I'm sure there will always be somebody that will point to Vince's 69.7 QB rating and use it as evidence.

But then you look at his QB rating progression per month:
September - 56.4
October - 61.6
November - 67.2
December - 84.9

Then look at his completion percentage (biggest factor in QB ratings):
September - 41.7
October - 48.9
November - 50.8
December - 61.8

Then look at his rushing average:
September - 4.8
October - 5.0
November - 6.1
December - 8.2

Anybody else see a trend?

All this for somebody that was supposed to take 3 years before he'd be ready for the league.

But, but, but....his wonderlic score....
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heh, you people keep going back to the wonderlic and all of that, but wasn't young the first QB taken in the draft? in the end, it didn't seem to bother teams that much apparently.

also i'm intrigued by the constant irony of people misspelling "wonderlic" over and over (not you Huge).
 
kastofsna said:
young DOESN'T throw a great deep ball. it's generally more of a jump ball than anything. he can wing it 60 yards, but it's hardly accurate.
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I guess his deep toss to Bennett in the 3rd quarter of the most recent Texans game was just luck then, huh? That one was about as perfectly placed as you can get.

Vince is a very good QB and barring injury he will probably be a thorn in the Texans' side for many years to come. Time to move on with a fresh debate.
 
anyone who says Vince Young is anything other than the best young QB in the league is seriously biased and completely ignorant. Don't try and dissect his game with stats and throws you saw in highlights on ESPN or the local News shows. Vince Young is A MAN. He just mans up every time at the end of the game and gets the job done and secures the win. The guy is just incredible.

Vince Young makes the NFL look like Nintendo. He is easily my favorite player in the league right now and his will to win is immense. His legend is already of Paul Bunyan proportions.

I don't care who he plays for. He just owns the field. Period. Fun to watch and just a treasure to behold.....

HOOK EM

Doug from The Woodlands
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I am also intrigued with members who cannot spell their own name in their avatar. :)
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that avatar was made by someone else. i even pointed his misspelling out to him immediately. :)
I guess his deep toss to Bennett in the 3rd quarter of the most recent Texans game was just luck then, huh? That one was about as perfectly placed as you can get.
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7 of 44 on passes thrown over 20 yards this year. that's brutal.
 
I hate VY because I'm jealous, he's in a playoff hunt and we are not. As to VY's talent, he definitely has a truck load, but so does ( Did ) Culpepper, & Vick and both had a lot of help to make them look good, just like VY. Team is the answer, coaching is the answer, filling the one missing piece. Doesn't anyone else look at this and see that the Titans dropped McNair for VY, so McNair's team is 12-3 and in the playoffs and the Titans are fighting. So to take the Bush-Young-Williams(Carr) argument further-McNair is the reason the Ravens are 12-3 their defense has nothing to do with it right? Team, VY has leadership, so does McNair, VY can run, so can McNair, I believe VY will be a good QB, I believe Bush will be a good RB, and yes I believe Mario will be the man, I do not believe any of these or anyone else can win by themselves against a team of eleven.
I do not have spell check, nor do I believe that spelling should be anywhere close to the top of the topics written about after the Colt's loss. Mario caused the Fumble.
 
kastofsna said:
7 of 44 on passes thrown over 20 yards this year. that's brutal.
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Way to use stats to prove he throws a bad deep ball.....


:secret: ......I can tell you haven't seen him play much, otherwise you wouldn't be making statements like this....
 
you're right, he throws a great deep pass, what am i thinking? sure he's completed 16 percent of any pass he's thrown over 20 yards, but that's just a misnomer in the stats. STATS ALWAYS LIE. VINCE IS GOD. ME LIKE VINCE. DUHHHHHHHHH i apologize.
 
kastofsna said:
you're right, he throws a great deep pass, what am i thinking? sure he's completed 16 percent of any pass he's thrown over 20 yards, but that's just a misnomer in the stats. STATS ALWAYS LIE. VINCE IS GOD. ME LIKE VINCE. DUHHHHHHHHH i apologize.
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Good job jumping to extremes....
 
kastofsna said:
you're right, he throws a great deep pass, what am i thinking? sure he's completed 16 percent of any pass he's thrown over 20 yards, but that's just a misnomer in the stats. STATS ALWAYS LIE. VINCE IS GOD. ME LIKE VINCE. DUHHHHHHHHH i apologize.
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Vince has a long way to go on his deep ball, short ball, and his 10-15 yard out route. He has a long way to go because he is a rookie and a work in progress. However, when its 3rd down or 4th down the dude either A.) makes the big pass or B.) runs it down the other teams throat, 9 times out of 10. I will take that any day over stats or QB rating.

Let's also remember that VY has little to no talent in the WR corps. He doesnt even have the teams #1 Tight End healthy. Ben Troupe has been hurt just about all year and its been the Bo Scaife Show at TE for most of the year. Bo Scaife is a pretty good TE but he aint exactly Dave Casper. Can you name a healthy Titans WR off the top of your head? Exactly, didn't think so.
 
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