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Does Vince Young improve the rivalry?

TexanSam said:
Does Vince Young improve the rivalry?
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vincent.jpg

Boy has mad gravity.
 
infantrycak said:
Just giving you a hard time. :cool:
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yeah, I know. Clarity in wordsmithing is one of your specialties, so like steel sharpening steel, I wanted to strengthen my mental capacity. :howdy:

Props to your kama sutra reference. I had to stop and think about it for a second.
 
Bongo59 said:
True for this yr.............hoiw about we go back to his rookie yr and compare and see if he is an elite WR.............he is not.
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You're joking right? Try comparing TO's career in his 1st 4 years to AJ. TO made his 1st pro-bowl in his 5th year--AJ in his 2nd and on the way to possibly repeat in his 4th. AJ's 1st two years crush TO's. And that was with a hall of fame QB throwing to him on playoff teams getting lessor coverage due to the presence of Jerry Rice.
 
Bongo59 said:
Carr has done it once in a game in Nashville with huge numbers but it was in 03 and after the game was over at the half............Mac threw for 400 yds and Mason had three long TD's................Carr got over 250 yds in garbage time and If I remember one was a long TD to Armstrong..........he finished with over 300yds if I am not mistaken.........he had stats yes but none mattered.................you have to have Carr do it when it counts...........and to date...........he has not shown that
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The 2 TD's 371 and 3 pick game was a loss when we only scored 17 points that day. The only time Carr has more than 200 yards in conjunction with 2 or more TD's in a win against you was on 11/28. He had 2TD's, 201 yards and only 1 INT that day.
 
I am not talking abou there forst yrs in the league.............I am talking about right now the last three yrs..............AJ has not met the elite status...........I do believe fully he can be a top three WR in all of the league............but playing small ball is not going to get him there............I think Kubiak is missing some weapons to get him there but I think AJ will be elite very soon.................TO from 98-06 has done it by himself at times..............as much as I hate the guy he is an animal in the red Zone and can score from anywhere..............just look at how he played in the SB with an injury..............he is amazing............but he is declining while AJ is still rising...............if RBush was a Texan I think AJ would have benefited most...............look what Bush is doing for Deuce Horn and Colston..............
 
Bongo59 said:
he had stats yes but none mattered.................you have to have Carr do it when it counts...........and to date...........he has not shown that
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Not very often, but he did do it against TN when the Texans came back from a 21-3 deficit where he had 2 TD's plus a rushing TD to take the lead and ultimately win 31-21.
 
infantrycak said:
Not very often, but he did do it against TN when the Texans came back from a 21-3 deficit where he had 2 TD's plus a rushing TD to take the lead and ultimately win 31-21.
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I was at that game..............the game was over at the half..............Carr did nothing when the starting D was out there............he did it on guys like Beckham woolfolk and rookies................That game was so lopsided it was not funny. The score does nothing telling you how Carr played.................
 
Bongo59 said:
I am not talking abou there forst yrs in the league.............I am talking about right now the last three yrs..............AJ has not met the elite status...........I do believe fully he can be a top three WR in all of the league............but playing small ball is not going to get him there............
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Bongo you can't have it both ways--you referenced rookie years presumably as a prediction of greatness and AJ's slammed TO's as has their careers to date. Past 3.5 years overall sure TO has been better and is decidedly more elite. As for small ball, I'd like them to air it out more as well but the "he can be top three" statement is pretty absurd since he is at #1 right now.

if RBush was a Texan I think AJ would have benefited most...............look what Bush is doing for Deuce Horn and Colston..............
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IMO that is highly debatable but the subject of another conversation. IMO AJ has benefited more from Moulds.
 
I'll tell you something else.............I was far more worried about Santana Moss on Jones than I am about AJ..............Moss has killed everyone he faced since becoming a skin.............and Jones really had his best game as a Titan CB last week. I had us losing that one by 20. Him VY and THenry really stepped up..............and the OL made it all happen. And they did it the week before in Indy to. He played well against Harrison in Indy.
 
Right now in a SB...............TO..............for the next 4 yrs............AJ...............TO is there AJ is arriving. There in lies the difference.
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Understood and appreciated. It is your opinion and I can't fault you on your logic behind reaching it. I can't talk about those two in the same sentence anymore. One I despise, the other I love. There is no comparison in my book.
 
Bongo59 said:
I was at that game..............the game was over at the half..............Carr did nothing when the starting D was out there............he did it on guys like Beckham woolfolk and rookies................That game was so lopsided it was not funny. The score does nothing telling you how Carr played.................
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What are you talking about? TN was leading 21-10 at the half. Carr passed for a TD on the opening drive of the 3rd qtr and then again near the end of the 3rd qtr to take the lead. Wasn't there but watched it and it was a good game for Carr--one you evidently don't remember well despite being there.
 
Look I like AJ............always have..............but I think that is all you have............and that is why I think the texans are in trouble.............I think this game will show somebody else in Houston has to make plays on O............will it be Carr or Moulds.............no RB scares us at all..............I think they will double Moulds and put AJones on AJ.............the Titans have elite OLB o carr outside does not scare us one bit............it killed the Jags because they have no elite LB with Mike pete out.............and that is why you ate their lunch.
 
Bongo59 said:
Look I like AJ............always have..............but I think that is all you have............and that is why I think the texans are in trouble.............I think this game will show somebody else in Houston has to make plays on O............will it be Carr or Moulds.............no RB scares us at all..............I think they will double Moulds and put AJones on AJ.............the Titans have elite OLB o carr outside does not scare us one bit............it killed the Jags because they have no elite LB with Mike pete out.............and that is why you ate their lunch.
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So this one is in the bag right....:rolleyes:
 
infantrycak said:
What are you talking about? TN was leading 21-10 at the half. Carr passed for a TD on the opening drive of the 3rd qtr and then again near the end of the 3rd qtr to take the lead. Wasn't there but watched it and it was a good game for Carr--one you evidently don't remember well despite being there.
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http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031012_HOU@TEN

there is the link to the recap.............it was a bad ass kicking as I thought
 
I think they will double Moulds and put AJones on AJ.............the Titans have elite OLB o carr outside does not scare us one bit............it killed the Jags because they have no elite LB with Mike pete out.............and that is why you ate their lunch.
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I hope like h e double hockey sticks you do that
 
Bongo59 said:
I was at that game..............the game was over at the half..............Carr did nothing when the starting D was out there............he did it on guys like Beckham woolfolk and rookies................That game was so lopsided it was not funny. The score does nothing telling you how Carr played.................
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Wow....... Carr won the game in Garbage time??

how can you use an example of such stupidity in an argument about how you're going to beat us on Sunday??

and then to say the game was over at half time?? duh....... obviously it wasn't.

Edit: Sorry, I see you were talking about a totally different game.
 
Bongo59 said:
in the bag nope.............It all hinges on how Adam plays AJ and if Carr make plays to anyone else..............the Texan will have to shut thew run and pass down...........we have to shut the pass down.
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LMAO!!!!

Yall are dead last in completion percentage.....
 
Bongo59 said:
Look I like AJ............always have..............but I think that is all you have............and that is why I think the texans are in trouble.............I think this game will show somebody else in Houston has to make plays on O............will it be Carr or Moulds.............no RB scares us at all..............I think they will double Moulds and put AJones on AJ.............the Titans have elite OLB o carr outside does not scare us one bit............it killed the Jags because they have no elite LB with Mike pete out.............and that is why you ate their lunch.
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I like this one. Y'all have the worst rushing D in the league, but no RB scares you. LOL! Crazy funny!

P.S. What's up with using all the periods?
 
Bongo59 said:
AJ has TO talent but he has been held back by Carr and the OL..............and not much has changed............Carr has improved statistically but he is playing small ball...........AJ is designed for big ball.................the Texans have not had a major win just throwing it all over the place because the OL is way below avg, When was the last time Carr and AJ lead the team to a 4th Q win throwing.................how about never.............that is the reason AJ wont be put in the elite WR class..................individually he has unreal talent.............but talent alone without team wont get you to elite status in football...................that limits AJ's plays and why TO is better.
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Umm...we were behind the Dolphins in the 4th quarter and the Carr to AJ connection lead us to a win.
Just look at the numbers and tell me TO is better right now. WR is a function of team play more then running back or even quarterback. To have someone leading the league in yards and receptions on a 2-4 team does not happen often. As the team continues to improve, AJ's numbers will get better and better.
Also, as I have said before, CB's ussually play sides of the field, not receivers, which is why AJ was covered by Brian Williams on certain plays. I think there will be plenty of AJ on Hill.
 
Bongo59 said:
VY has way more upside than Vick at this point. Vick has been slow to pick up the NFL pass game while VY was for more accomplished in college than Vick every was. I think Vick is an avg NFL QB while VY has the chance to be a great one...
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OK. Maybe. Who knows. What I do know is that right now, Michael Vick is the better passer, better runner, better quarterback, and better football player. None of that will change by this Sunday.

I don't know if Vince improves the rivalry between the Texans & the Titans. Until both teams improve and are fighting for playoff berths, I'm not sure that a rivalry like Cowboys/Skins or Broncos/Raiders will exist. I do think that Young playing QB in Nashville instead of Steve McNair improves the chances of the Texans winning on Sunday greatly. And I'm all for Fisher giving a rookie in his 4th start more responsibility. The more the better.
 
Lucky said:
OK. Maybe. Who knows. What I do know is that right now, Michael Vick is the better passer, better runner, better quarterback, and better football player. None of that will change by this Sunday.

I don't know if Vince improves the rivalry between the Texans & the Titans. Until both teams improve and are fighting for playoff berths, I'm not sure that a rivalry like Cowboys/Skins or Broncos/Raiders will exist. I do think that Young playing QB in Nashville instead of Steve McNair improves the chances of the Texans winning on Sunday greatly. And I'm all for Fisher giving a rookie in his 4th start more responsibility. The more the better.
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I would definately say VY has more upside then Vick right now, after all, it took Vick 6 years to throw more then 2 TD's in a game. However, right now the Titans probably have one of the 3 worst passing games in the NFL along with the Raiders and some would say Broncos (Jake the Snake!). By the same token, we have not proven we have a running game. Obviously last week was great, but until we do it consitantly, its a question mark.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Try THE worst passing game....
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One thing you guys seem to be glossing over is the fact that this will be VY's 4th official start. So, yeah I'm sure it will take time to develop the chemistry needed to have a top tier passing attack.

That being said. Not a one of you on this site will say that the Titans don't have a chance with VY at the helm. We know as well as UT fans know that with VY on the field we can win. You saw what happened in front of 91 thousand strong in Washington. I personally don't care if we only pass for 15yds. The Win is what matters.

And VY has steadily improved in the passing game. (see Washington)
 
Brazos-V said:
One thing you guys seem to be glossing over is the fact that this will be VY's 4th official start. So, yeah I'm sure it will take time to develop the chemistry needed to have a top tier passing attack.

That being said. Not a one of you on this site will say that the Titans don't have a chance with VY at the helm. We know as well as UT fans know that with VY on the field we can win. You saw what happened in front of 91 thousand strong in Washington. I personally don't care if we only pass for 15yds. The Win is what matters.

And VY has steadily improved in the passing game. (see Washington)
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I don't disagree with you...VY is one of my favorite QB's....

But When you have posters like Bongo saying that All you guys have to worry about is our passing game, and We have to worry about the pass and the run.....you gotta call 'em out....
 
Brazos-V said:
One thing you guys seem to be glossing over is the fact that this will be VY's 4th official start. So, yeah I'm sure it will take time to develop the chemistry needed to have a top tier passing attack.

That being said. Not a one of you on this site will say that the Titans don't have a chance with VY at the helm. We know as well as UT fans know that with VY on the field we can win. You saw what happened in front of 91 thousand strong in Washington. I personally don't care if we only pass for 15yds. The Win is what matters.

And VY has steadily improved in the passing game. (see Washington)
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Titans don't have a chance with VY at the helm.....

he might back at UT, when more times than not he is the best athlete on the field by a wide Margin, but that doesn't happen in the NFL.

I believe if Vince was on our team, he'd have an amazing rookie year, kinda like Culpeppers, and McNabbs first year starting, because we've got that kinda talent on this team. You don't. Drew Bennette is good, and consistent, but he is no #1 WR, and David Givens sure as heck isn't. Travis Henry is pretty good, but I bet he doesn't finish the game... & your tightends... well they are ok.

Then your Defense ain't up to snuff with the Defense Vince had working for him last year.
 
thunderkyss said:
Titans don't have a chance with VY at the helm.....
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Washington thought that as well.


thunderkyss said:
I believe if Vince was on our team, he'd have an amazing rookie year, kinda like Culpeppers, and McNabbs first year starting, because we've got that kinda talent on this team. You don't. Drew Bennette is good, and consistent, but he is no #1 WR, and David Givens sure as heck isn't. Travis Henry is pretty good, but I bet he doesn't finish the game... & your tightends... well they are ok.

Then your Defense ain't up to snuff with the Defense Vince had working for him last year.
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VY has what many have said is the "IT" factor. You may have said it yourself. Well, the "IT" factor makes your teamates want to play better for you. Also the "IT" factor brings that extra dimension to a team looking for an identity. So, we will see come sunday who has the best talent on the field.

Oh! And even if Travis doesn't last the game. That just means you will have a different monster to contend with..LenDale White.
 
Brazos-V said:
Washington thought that as well.




VY has what many have said is the "IT" factor. You may have said it yourself. Well, the "IT" factor makes your teamates want to play better for you. Also the "IT" factor brings that extra dimension to a team looking for an identity. So, we will see come sunday who has the best talent on the field.

Oh! And even if Travis doesn't last the game. That just means you will have a different monster to contend with..LenDale White.
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He's got enough IT to make a half decent team better. Nobody has enough IT to make your team better. Not this year. Put in a solid draft, get CalvinJohnson, then his IT will get you over the hump.
 
Bongo59 said:
True for this yr.............hoiw about we go back to his rookie yr and compare and see if he is an elite WR.............he is not. And that is more on his caches and teammates.............he needs to to do it over time to be considered elite.............right now he is a very talent player who must be accounted for with your own best player in your secondary. Still cant believe the Jags left Williams on him as much as they did..................Adam will draw him 90% of the time Sunday.
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I guess it really depends on how much fun PacMan had the night before. It's too bad for the Titans that Nashville is such a fun town, because PacMan is having a rough time not drinking all of his talent away.
 
Brazos-V said:
VY has what many have said is the "IT" factor. You may have said it yourself. Well, the "IT" factor makes your teamates want to play better for you. Also the "IT" factor brings that extra dimension to a team looking for an identity. So, we will see come sunday who has the best talent on the field.
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Dan Marino had the "IT" factor, but no rings. I'm not comparing Young to Marino, but the "IT" factor can only carry things so far. It takes a full team of talent, plus good leadership (the "IT" factor) to produce a champion. Let's always keep in mind that Vince Young plays a team sport.
 
Double Barrel said:
Dan Marino had the "IT" factor, but no rings. I'm not comparing Young to Marino, but the "IT" factor can only carry things so far. It takes a full team of talent, plus good leadership (the "IT" factor) to produce a champion. Let's always keep in mind that Vince Young plays a team sport.
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Eh... the "IT" factor is a dangerous thing. I always like to seperate the guys who I see as having the "IT" factor into two subcategories.

1) Natural "IT" factor - Examples.... Marino/Manning

They break records. They are clearly the best. The entire league talks about how powerful these guys are. Laser-rocket arms. Dominators of the Defense. They MAKE good teams. The problem is... they seem to have a problem winning the big games. Marino lost his only SB, while Peyton is yet to get there.

2) Developed "IT" factor - Examples.... Bradshaw/Brady

These guys are above average QBs who play(ed) on an above average team. They got Super Bowl blings... they are SB MVPs. They had a team where their above average skills could be harnessed and their leadership, while not the best, is unquestioned. Record-breaking numbers? Not likely. But they always show up, and they are Field Generals none-the-less.

I see VY in the #2 category. That is what scares me about him. At TU he was the ultimate QB. An awesome team, an awesome athlete. The problem is... he plays for a terrible team.

What I am trying to say is this.....

IMHO... as explained above.... he will never do anything for that team unless the team itself improves.
 
TexanSam said:
With the Titans drafting Vince Young, do you think it makes the rivalry between the Texans and the Titans even bigger from the fans perspective?QUOTE]

IMO, Vince makes the rivalry bigger for sure. I like Vince, and I hope he plays well, and loses. I've always liked the Texans/Titans games, but now they're even more intense.

:redtowel:
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Bongo59 said:
Pac played TO pretty well. TGlenn hurt him. AJ is not in TO league. He is your best player but I am confident Adam can hold him in check. AJ will hurt us but he wont beat us alone. I think Carr will have alot to prove. the Texans are going to have to stop the run game and then prepare for the VY package............throws and runs.............that will take alot of their edge play comletely away. Outside of AJ the Texans cubbards are bare. But I am very anxious to see how the Texans play VY.
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Pac-thug will have his hands full with AJ. Don't forget about Moulds, he'll be the one spiking the football after those touchdown passes.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Sun shines on a dogs a** some days...............
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I'm not the one that claimed my grandma could cover T.O. He's still one of the best in the NFL. THE best no, but top 10 at the very least. Johnson will be a good test for Pac-Man, I'm looking forward to it. Johnson has the height to be able to get the jump balls, speed is obviously in Pac's favor but he does have to anticipate the route. Will be a show.
 
2ToneBlue said:
Didn't TO have a 3 touchdown game this year....

Oh yeah it was against the Texans that's right.
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I guess that went over your head...

Yard wise T.O had his second best game against you guys...
In fact he had his longest catch of the year against you all too...

He had his second worse against us....
 
infantrycak said:
Not so fast 2Tone.

Ms. PacMan ran in the 4.4's, AJ ran in the 4.3's. He came in 2nd in the fastest man competition in 2004 and won the Big East 100 yd in 2002.
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The 5-foot-10, 185-pound Jones won the Titans over with speed timed at 4.38-seconds in the 40-yard dash and his leaping ability in predraft workouts. He recorded a 39-inch vertical leap before the draft.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=9245

Johnson was timed at between 4.42-4.48, according to three scouts, in his first 40-yard dash. On the second, he ran between 4.37-4.40, scouts said. He also recorded a 41-inch vertical jump, a long jump of 10-feet, 9-inches, and a time of about 4.10 seconds in the short shuttle drill.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1519382&type=Columnist

I appologize they seem pretty dead even. I don't remember if Pac ran at the combine where Johnson got his time.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=9684 (no 40 yd for combine only 4.38 for Pro Day workout)

I guess Pac looks faster cause he feet move so much quicker, Johnson's got a longer stride for obvious reasons.
 
The numbers at various sites are all over the place from as low as 4.33 for AJ to the ones you found and 4.38 to 4.45 or so for Jones. I suspect PacMan is faster out of the blocks but the longer the run the greater the advantage becomes for AJ. That is what happened to him at the fastest man competition--if it had been 110 yds he would have won as he was rapidly gaining.
 
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