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Texans Offensive Line

It's a function of his contract and his trade value. His dead cap amount saves him... and the fact that everyone knows he isn't good prevents a trade... No doubt the Texans would've loved to dump him too and replace him with a midrange free agent type. However, there was no way to do that. So, he's depth, a potential reclamation project, and/or a cut next season.
A post June 1st trade would create over a million dollars in cap savings and Howard's 11.5 million base salary would not be insurmountable for another team to assume. If Nick can get what he did for Kenyon Green, I am not ruling out anything. Give a few games into the regular season to boost Howard trade value and we'll see.
 
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It's a function of his contract and his trade value. His dead cap amount saves him... and the fact that everyone knows he isn't good prevents a trade... No doubt the Texans would've loved to dump him too and replace him with a midrange free agent type. However, there was no way to do that. So, he's depth, a potential reclamation project, and/or a cut next season.
^^^^
This
 
A post June 1st trade wood create over a million dollars in cap savings and Howard's 11.5 million base salary would not be insurmountable for another team to assume. If Nick can get what he did for Kenyon Green, I am not ruling out anything. Give a few games into the regular season to boost Howard trade value and we'll see.
In order to generate trade interest, Howard would have be "serviceable" for this team. If Howard is generally doing a good job at whatever position the Texans use him at, would you still trade him? Or would you keep him and solidify your line?
 
In order to generate trade interest, Howard would have be "serviceable" for this team. If Howard is generally doing a good job at whatever position the Texans use him at, would you still trade him? Or would you keep him and solidify your line?
Good question, however I do not see Howard solidifying our line even if he is better. He is 29 years of age with only the year 2026 under contract and at approximately 28 million I think cap hit.

If Nick's plan is to move Howard sometime during the season, that eliminates getting draft picks this year but perhaps in 2026. That also leads to having to spend a draft pick now to get his replacement. I could also seeing a trade for a vet that another team wants to move. Reminds me of the Kenyon green trade for a safety.
 
Good question, however I do not see Howard solidifying our line even if he is better. He is 29 years of age with only the year 2026 under contract and at approximately 28 million I think cap hit.

If Nick's plan is to move Howard sometime during the season, that eliminates getting draft picks this year but perhaps in 2026. That also leads to having to spend a draft pick now to get his replacement. I could also seeing a trade for a vet that another team wants to move. Reminds me of the Kenyon green trade for a safety.
Depending on Trent Brown's health, we'll need a swing tackle.
 
Whilst they have lots of options for the short term, it would clearly be better for the team if Fisher & Tay can develop into bookend OT’s, Patterson & Scruggs can stay healthy and develop into IOL anchors, and next off season we are maybe looking for an LG to add in for the long term.

I’m not so sure about Stressans’ idea that it will be fun to watch play out, we’re in a pretty important year or 2 for CJs development, last season was certainly a down year, I’d say there’s a lot of stress on this OL for the veteran rentals to play really well and the rookie contracts to develop real fast now in a new scheme with (hopefully) better coaching.
 
One thing is for sure. We need to stop counting Howard as a tackle. It’s now clear as day that Howard will be a guard as long as he is here.

Unless they pull off a trade, we are looking at Laken T at one spot and Howard a the other, with Patterson or Juice at C.

Only one word can describe this trio: YIKES :firehair::firehair:
 
It seems the Texans are betting that their scheme can compensate for a lack of top-tier talent. If it works, it could be brilliant, but if it doesn't, the results could be disastrous.
Agree.
They could easily have taken a second T instead of the second WR so that looks like a clue right there.
Going by CJ's rookie season, he thrived with Dell carving up the slot and likely believe that is his go-to hence the slot receiver.
Let's hope they're right and CJ can take a lot of pressure off the Oline.
 
One thing is for sure. We need to stop counting Howard as a tackle. It’s now clear as day that Howard will be a guard as long as he is here.

Unless they pull off a trade, we are looking at Laken T at one spot and Howard a the other, with Patterson or Juice at C.

Only one word can describe this trio: YIKES :firehair::firehair:

I think Howard will be competing with Tomlinson at LG. Scruggs will be competing with Ingram at RG and Patterson at C.

That’s as far as “competing for a starting job” competition. Then there’s the backup swing job. And if they feel like Howard and Tomlinson are their two best OGs then they’ll move one to RG… but I really hope one of those former second rounders earns that job because I don’t want two older dogs learning new tricks during the season.

If I had to bet the day 1 interior OL:

LG Howard Tomlinson
C Patterson Scruggs
RG Scruggs Ingram
 
I think Howard will be competing with Tomlinson at LG. Scruggs will be competing with Ingram at RG and Patterson at C.

That’s as far as “competing for a starting job” competition. Then there’s the backup swing job. And if they feel like Howard and Tomlinson are their two best OGs then they’ll move one to RG… but I really hope one of those former second rounders earns that job because I don’t want two older dogs learning new tricks during the season.

If I had to bet the day 1 interior OL:

LG Howard Tomlinson
C Patterson Scruggs
RG Scruggs Ingram

Yep. Unless he is a complete bum, Fisher should be starting at one spot entering his second year. Put Cam at the other until the big fella is ready for prime time.
 
If the Giants are truly entertaining the idea of trading LT, Evan Neal (Alabama) b/c they declined his 5th year option….should the Texans entertain trading for him if he could be obtained for a Conditional 2026 RD6?

His run blocking was his strength coming out of Bama and proved to be the same with the Giants. His pass blocking was weak. At Bama he had a season at RT, one at RG, and his final season at LT. Based on his run blocking skills, I could see moving him to LG. I guess taking a shot on a former RD1 pick could be worth the shot.
 
Texans snag released Patriots OL


Looks like the Texans are still being linked to Brandon Scherff

 
Texans snag released Patriots OL


Looks like the Texans are still being linked to Brandon Scherff


Would love to have Scherff at RG. Biggest question mark on the OL imo. He was the OL who pounced on Azeez after the Lawrence hit… and I love that. I am not sure if any OL on the team last season would have done that if CJ took a similar hit. But I want my OL to come to their QB’s defense.
 
Texans snag released Patriots OL


Looks like the Texans are still being linked to Brandon Scherff


Scherff is WAY over the hill. The fact that the Jags didn't want him (despite their terrible Oline) should tell you all you need to know.
 
Scherff is WAY over the hill. The fact that the Jags didn't want him (despite their terrible Oline) should tell you all you need to know.
He had over 1,000 snaps in each of his three seasons with Jax.

If you take a look at his PFF grades, something jumps right out. With Washington, his run blocking grades are in the 70's and 80's. With Jax they immediately drop to the high 50's low 60's.

There had to be a scheme change. Wonder what was different and how would he project to whatever the Texans will run?
 
He had over 1,000 snaps in each of his three seasons with Jax.

If you take a look at his PFF grades, something jumps right out. With Washington, his run blocking grades are in the 70's and 80's. With Jax they immediately drop to the high 50's low 60's.

There had to be a scheme change. Wonder what was different and how would he project to whatever the Texans will run?

According to Jag fans he no longer has the run-blocking strength that he used to, but he still gets by on technique in pass-blocking to do an average job. Rather than sign someone better, they had him play the last year of his contract and he was even worse than before.
 
According to Jag fans he no longer has the run-blocking strength that he used to, but he still gets by on technique in pass-blocking to do an average job. Rather than sign someone better, they had him play the last year of his contract and he was even worse than before.
I'd have to question the Jax fans perception of his play. A professional athlete, who I assume works out in the off season, drops so precipiously from 73.7 to 56.9 in one season. He wasn't injured. A player's decline is usually more gradual over several seasons. But what do I know.
 
I'd have to question the Jax fans perception of his play. A professional athlete, who I assume works out in the off season, drops so precipiously from 73.7 to 56.9 in one season. He wasn't injured. A player's decline is usually more gradual over several seasons. But what do I know.

And I would question PFF on, well, just about anything. :winky: My favorite is when they rated QB Mac Jones's run blocking as very poor, only to have it improve dramatically two games later.
 
Andrews is an intriguing addition. It appears the Texans really liked the 2023 center class because they now have a 2nd, 4th and 6 rounder on their roster.

Andrews spent his rookie season backing up David Andrews. His second year ended in training camp with a torn meniscus. He’s a talented player and was drafted top of the 4th round for a reason. A regime change led to him being dismissed in New England. I’d expect with the additions of Bradbury and Wilson at center they want to run more outside zone under Vrabel. And i’d say Andrews is a better gap scheme fit at center. The OL competitions will be one to watch in camp. They could have legitimate competition for all 5 starting spots. Not just “saying” there’s competition.
 
If the Giants are truly entertaining the idea of trading LT, Evan Neal (Alabama) b/c they declined his 5th year option….should the Texans entertain trading for him if he could be obtained for a Conditional 2026 RD6?

His run blocking was his strength coming out of Bama and proved to be the same with the Giants. His pass blocking was weak. At Bama he had a season at RT, one at RG, and his final season at LT. Based on his run blocking skills, I could see moving him to LG. I guess taking a shot on a former RD1 pick could be worth the shot.
Can he play RG?
 
Whilst they have lots of options for the short term, it would clearly be better for the team if Fisher & Tay can develop into bookend OT’s, Patterson & Scruggs can stay healthy and develop into IOL anchors, and next off season we are maybe looking for an LG to add in for the long term.

I’m not so sure about Stressans’ idea that it will be fun to watch play out, we’re in a pretty important year or 2 for CJs development, last season was certainly a down year, I’d say there’s a lot of stress on this OL for the veteran rentals to play really well and the rookie contracts to develop real fast now in a new scheme with (hopefully) better coaching.
I'm thinking the vets wont have issues picking up the new scheme.

Robinson/Tomlinson/Brown/Howard have played in various schemes.

An interior OL of Tomlinson/Patterson and Howard will be better next yr strictly on IQ alone. Not that I expect this to be the starting IOL.
 
It seems the Texans are betting that their scheme can compensate for a lack of top-tier talent. If it works, it could be brilliant, but if it doesn't, the results could be disastrous.
Not just Scheme but also size.

Robinson/Howard/Patterson/Ersery/Brown is real size for a mainly gap scheme. Think this OL might be able to run the ball, even though they dont have a TE that can block?
 
One thing is for sure. We need to stop counting Howard as a tackle. It’s now clear as day that Howard will be a guard as long as he is here.

Unless they pull off a trade, we are looking at Laken T at one spot and Howard a the other, with Patterson or Juice at C.

Only one word can describe this trio: YIKES :firehair::firehair:
Hopefully this isn't the starting IOL.

Fortunately they have other options.
 
I think Howard will be competing with Tomlinson at LG. Scruggs will be competing with Ingram at RG and Patterson at C.

That’s as far as “competing for a starting job” competition. Then there’s the backup swing job. And if they feel like Howard and Tomlinson are their two best OGs then they’ll move one to RG… but I really hope one of those former second rounders earns that job because I don’t want two older dogs learning new tricks during the season.

If I had to bet the day 1 interior OL:

LG Howard Tomlinson
C Patterson Scruggs
RG Scruggs Ingram
I would put Ersery as a competitor for one of the OG spots.

I see Fisher and a healthy Trent Brown fighting it out for the RT spot. If healthy Brown's the starting RT.
 
If the Giants are truly entertaining the idea of trading LT, Evan Neal (Alabama) b/c they declined his 5th year option….should the Texans entertain trading for him if he could be obtained for a Conditional 2026 RD6?

His run blocking was his strength coming out of Bama and proved to be the same with the Giants. His pass blocking was weak. At Bama he had a season at RT, one at RG, and his final season at LT. Based on his run blocking skills, I could see moving him to LG. I guess taking a shot on a former RD1 pick could be worth the shot.
NO
 
What other statistical analysis do you prefer to use for grading?

The biggest issue with PFF is that their stats are proprietary, similar to ESPN's QBR. They're entire shtick is to convince fans that they know better than the other sites.. so pay up.

Now that's not to say that all of there takes are useless, but if it's unrepeatable/unexplainable then there should be taken with a healthy degree of skepticism.

Here's an example that applies, Scherff played in a zone system with the Jags. On a play where the C and G double a DT, then one of the two peels off to the second level. If they come across an unsuccessful zone block on that play, there is no way to determine whether the G or C was at fault without having access to the Jaguars scheme (which can change game-to-game) and the actual line call that was made.

So if I'm a PFF employee watching tape and I'm trying to give a run-blocking grade to the guard, what do I do? Blame the center, the guard, or say they both messed it up. My guess is you could take two PFF employees and have them grade the game separately, and get two different grades.

The same concept applies to several parts of the game, was that a bad throw or did the receiver run his route incorrectly. Did he blow coverage or was he trying to cover someone else's mistake while he was assigned elsewhere.

[/PFF rant]
 
The biggest issue with PFF is that their stats are proprietary, similar to ESPN's QBR. They're entire shtick is to convince fans that they know better than the other sites.. so pay up.

Now that's not to say that all of there takes are useless, but if it's unrepeatable/unexplainable then there should be taken with a healthy degree of skepticism.

Here's an example that applies, Scherff played in a zone system with the Jags. On a play where the C and G double a DT, then one of the two peels off to the second level. If they come across an unsuccessful zone block on that play, there is no way to determine whether the G or C was at fault without having access to the Jaguars scheme (which can change game-to-game) and the actual line call that was made.

So if I'm a PFF employee watching tape and I'm trying to give a run-blocking grade to the guard, what do I do? Blame the center, the guard, or say they both messed it up. My guess is you could take two PFF employees and have them grade the game separately, and get two different grades.

The same concept applies to several parts of the game, was that a bad throw or did the receiver run his route incorrectly. Did he blow coverage or was he trying to cover someone else's mistake while he was assigned elsewhere.

[/PFF rant]
But... they are the only game in town (as far as I know) and are accepted league wide as the go to authority. So unless there is an alternative, there is no other way to objectively offer up a discussion. It's just subjective opinion against subjective opinion.

So to the case under discussion, do you really think a 5 time all pro can decline to a has been in one season. How do you argue this.
 
But... they are the only game in town (as far as I know) and are accepted league wide as the go to authority. So unless there is an alternative, there is no other way to objectively offer up a discussion. It's just subjective opinion against subjective opinion.

So to the case under discussion, do you really think a 5 time all pro can decline to a has been in one season. How do you argue this.

Well I just made the case that PFF is in fact subjective, so turfing it to a "well accepted" subjective source doesn't really get you where you want to go. What you're really looking for is the coaches evaluation, which is really the only opinion that counts and is of course not for public consumption.

But to answer your question, age and injuries. I would predict it happened in a similar way that it did to Andre Johnson. He made it to his last pro-bowl in 2013, in 2014 his yards went down severely (500 less) and he was cut from his original team after the season. In 2015 he played for the Colts and had a poor showing (503), and in 2017 he had 85 yards on the season and and retired.

So my question to you would be, why do you think you can take a 33 year-old-guard and expect he'll play like he did 4 years ago?
 
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Well I just made the case that PFF is in fact subjective, so turfing it to a "well accepted" subjective source doesn't really get you where you want to go. What you're really looking for is the coaches evaluation, which is really the only opinion that counts and is of course not for public consumption.

But to answer your question, age and injuries. I would predict it happened in a similar way that it did to Andre Johnson. He made it to his last pro-bowl in 2013, in 2014 his yards went down severely (500 less) and he was cut from his original team after the season. In 2015 he played for the Colts and had a poor showing (503), and in 2017 he had 85 yards on the season and and retired.

So my question to would be, why do you think you can take a 33 year-old-guard and expect he'll play like he did 4 years ago?
I didn't say that. What I said, or implied, is that the stats suggested another explanation than old age and that the Texans should see if there was a change in OL coaching or scheming that may not have been as good a fit for Scherff's abilities/play, and I certainly was implying that this answer could influence whether the Texans should pursue Scherff.
 
Scherff doesn't have a Super Bowl Ring. You think he'd like one to close out his career? Wonder what kind of a one year deal he'd work with the Texans on?

How'd you like to see this OL...
Ersery/Robinson....LT
Howard...................LG
Patterson................OC
Scherff....................RG
Brown......................RT
 
I didn't say that. What I said, or implied, is that the stats suggested another explanation than old age and that the Texans should see if there was a change in OL coaching or scheming that may not have been as good a fit for Scherff's abilities/play, and I certainly was implying that this answer could influence whether the Texans should pursue Scherff.
The issue is your taking "stats" by themselves, rather than watching the guy play on the field, every game, for multiple seasons. When I see a (knowledgeable) Jaguars fan bewildered because the team didn't cut him when it was clear that he was part of the reason the team had a very poor line, I give them the benefit of the doubt.

Again this is similar to watching Andre in 2014, you didn't need a stopwatch to tell that Andre had simply lost a gear (or two) from his 4.4 second 40, and that his quickness in and out of his breaks were much slower than they used to be.
 
The issue is your taking "stats" by themselves, rather than watching the guy play on the field, every game, for multiple seasons. When I see a (knowledgeable) Jaguars fan bewildered because the team didn't cut him when it was clear that he was part of the reason the team had a very poor line, I give them the benefit of the doubt.

Again this is similar to watching Andre in 2014, you didn't need a stopwatch to tell that Andre had simply lost a gear (or two) from his 4.4 second 40, and that his quickness in and out of his breaks were much slower than they used to be.
OK, I get it. You don't think the Texans should have anything to do with Scherff. I disagree; I think they should explore this option.

RG is still a weak spot on our OL. We have no experience there. Scruggs may be at the top of a small list of contenders for the position.

Scruggs, at OG, had a RBLK of 60.4 and a PBLK of 57.9.

Scherff had a RBLK of 57.3 and a PBLK of 74.5.

You'd think Scruggs will improve, especially with new coaching and scheming. But still, I'd like some experience at the position. Scherff is certainly worth a consideration.

edit: further comparison:

Tomlinson: RBLK 65.1..PBLK 59.7
Ingram: RBLK 58.1..PBLK 49.1
 
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What other statistical analysis do you prefer to use for grading?
When trying to project what the Texans do at OL, I’ve learned the pineal gland is the best eye to use for evaluation.
Scherff doesn't have a Super Bowl Ring. You think he'd like one to close out his career? Wonder what kind of a one year deal he'd work with the Texans on?

How'd you like to see this OL...
Ersery/Robinson....LT
Howard...................LG
Patterson................OC
Scherff....................RG
Brown......................RT
On paper, this looks much better. However, I will point to last offseason when most of the fanbase felt great about the OL on paper. Sometimes a good script doesn’t make a good movie.
 
Whilst they have lots of options for the short term, it would clearly be better for the team if Fisher & Tay can develop into bookend OT’s, Patterson & Scruggs can stay healthy and develop into IOL anchors, and next off season we are maybe looking for an LG to add in for the long term.

I’m not so sure about Stressans’ idea that it will be fun to watch play out, we’re in a pretty important year or 2 for CJs development, last season was certainly a down year, I’d say there’s a lot of stress on this OL for the veteran rentals to play really well and the rookie contracts to develop real fast now in a new scheme with (hopefully) better coaching.

If things still look like they are weak at Guard after OTA's, there are still 3 decent starting quality Free agents out here waiting to be signed:

Brandon Scherff

Will Hernandez​

Dalton Risner​


None of these three are all-pro, but all three are solid starters.

 
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