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Texans may push for a new stadium.

They want all the "things other stadiums have". When I was reading the article originally when it came out it pretty much said that. I will paraphrase what it said.

NRG needs approximately 2bil in renovation to get the 20+ year old stadium up to the level of the other majority of stadiums in the league.

Ask me, that sounds like it is in good shape but to complete with the Jones (pun intended) it needs other things. Perhaps a few more modern (in 2025) items that say SoFi have but we don't. And oh, we have to have the things Vegas has too.
 
They want all the "things other stadiums have". When I was reading the article originally when it came out it pretty much said that. I will paraphrase what it said.

NRG needs approximately 2bil in renovation to get the 20+ year old stadium up to the level of the other majority of stadiums in the league.

Ask me, that sounds like it is in good shape but to complete with the Jones (pun intended) it needs other things. Perhaps a few more modern (in 2025) items that say SoFi have but we don't. And oh, we have to have the things Vegas has too.
The one thing that Vegas has that I would love to see in Houston, is the one piece, seamless, all natural playing surface.
 

Article goes into repairs, specifically mentions that none of the 1.4 billion is for upgrades
The 23-year-old stadium certainly shows more signs of wear-and-tear than its MLB and NBA counterparts in Houston, but the repair numbers offered by recent assessments seemed astronomical to some: $1.4 billion is needed over the next 30 years in maintenance and capital projects.

For example, the report calls for spending $16.7 million in 2026 to replace the seats in the stadium, which are original to the building and have not been replaced since 2002. Another $31 million is recommended through 2028 to replace or modernize the building’s elevators and escalators.

The repair needs stem primarily from two factors, according to Wooley. First, the stadium’s age means many of its systems, which have lifespans of about 20 years, need to be replaced simply due to time.

The $1.4 billion total shakes out to about $46 million a year – or about 19 times the stadium’s current annual maintenance budget of $2.5 million. But the total dollar figure includes some systems that will have to be replaced soon and then replaced again in the long term, meaning they are double counted in the total.
For example, nearly $5 million is recommended to replace discolored glass panels in the stadium’s curtain wall, according to the assessment. The report calls for another $9 million to do the same thing in 2044.

Unlike at Toyota Center and Daikin Park, where the team’s billionaire owners are on the hook for maintenance, Harris County leaders in the late 1990s and early 2000s insisted on taking charge of maintenance at NRG Stadium, fearing a redo of the Astrodome, where they felt Astros officials failed to invest properly in maintenance.

Then the county made the same mistake. It never allocated an adequate source of funds to maintain the stadium, and it has failed to turn its control of the stadium into a cash-generating machine that could sustain itself. As a result, it has fallen behind on repairs.
 
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If this happens, expect all fan expenses go up significantly.
I know. But, it sounds like Cal and Hannah are wanting to own the land. So they can do whatever. The lime in the article about the new team HQ and practice facilities kinda hinted at it. Paraphrase

"We don't currently own the land so we only have control of certain dates."

Seems like they want more control. And they brought in a guy who is known for getting areas new stadiums, team HQs and such...
 
If this happens, expect all fan expenses go up significantly.
Have to disagree. The only way Harris Co can meet the budget for repairs/maintenance is to increase the things they have control over at NRG. I expect them (Harris Co) to increase the cost of parking for all events, and concessions as well.
 
I know. But, it sounds like Cal and Hannah are wanting to own the land. So they can do whatever. The lime in the article about the new team HQ and practice facilities kinda hinted at it. Paraphrase

"We don't currently own the land so we only have control of certain dates."

Seems like they want more control. And they brought in a guy who is known for getting areas new stadiums, team HQs and such...
Harris Co getting out of the event venue business would be best for everyone.
 
Have to disagree. The only way Harris Co can meet the budget for repairs/maintenance is to increase the things they have control over at NRG. I expect them (Harris Co) to increase the cost of parking for all events, and concessions as well.
You dont think if the McNair's takeover for the county that things like parking/concessions etc... wont go up significantly more than if the county keeps control.
 
You dont think if the McNair's takeover for the county that things like parking/concessions etc... wont go up significantly more than if the county keeps control.
I think the price is going to go up either way. The McNair's takeover and raise prices to maximize profits or the county raises prices to pay for the needed repairs and maintenance. If prices remain the same the NRG will become Astrodome II: Electric Bugaloo

Why are you so certain the county wouldn't raise prices to cover the obvious budgetary shortfall?
 
I think the price is going to go up either way. The McNair's takeover and raise prices to maximize profits or the county raises prices to pay for the needed repairs and maintenance. If prices remain the same the NRG will become Astrodome II: Electric Bugaloo

Why are you so certain the county wouldn't raise prices to cover the obvious budgetary shortfall?
Didn't they already kinda do that
 
Have to disagree. The only way Harris Co can meet the budget for repairs/maintenance is to increase the things they have control over at NRG. I expect them (Harris Co) to increase the cost of parking for all events, and concessions as well.
And the McNairs will buy the land and make all the needed repairs out of the goodness of their hearts................. :chef:
 
And the McNairs will buy the land and make all the needed repairs out of the goodness of their hearts................. :chef:
Of course not, but what are the realistic options:

1) Harris County raises all prices (concessions to parking) to raise the funds for the 1.4 billion in repairs and maintenance (remember that price is not for any upgrades)

2) The McNairs move to the stadium to the burbs. Some community outside of Harris County will foot the bill, whether you like it or not

3) Harris Co and the McNairs come to some sort of deal regarding NRG.

Something I find odd is that the Texans use the stadium less than the rodeo and all the other events Harris Co books into it, but everyone expects all the cost to be shouldered by the McNair's. It's like we just expect them to be absolutely stupid when it comes to business but give Harris County a pass.
 
Of course not, but what are the realistic options:

1) Harris County raises all prices (concessions to parking) to raise the funds for the 1.4 billion in repairs and maintenance (remember that price is not for any upgrades)

2) The McNairs move to the stadium to the burbs. Some community outside of Harris County will foot the bill, whether you like it or not

3) Harris Co and the McNairs come to some sort of deal regarding NRG.

Something I find odd is that the Texans use the stadium less than the rodeo and all the other events Harris Co books into it, but everyone expects all the cost to be shouldered by the McNair's. It's like we just expect them to be absolutely stupid when it comes to business but give Harris County a pass.
You're not considering the enormous rebates that the Texans are getting for renting from the County.
When you look at the arrangement as a whole, the McNairs and the Texans are coming out pretty darn well.

******************

Texans have paid $4M in rent since 2002. Rockets paid over $250M.

Dylan McGuinness10-13 minutes 3/21/2025

As county leaders and officials with Bob McNair’s nascent football team were closing in on a deal for a new football stadium in the early 2000s, the Texans landed a late concession that would prove to be a financial triumph for years to come.

The Harris County-Houston Sports Authority, a joint city-county venture responsible for financing all of Houston’s major sports stadiums, would take out bonds to build the new football facility for the Texans and Houston Livestock Show & Rodeo. It would pay off the debt over several decades, mostly with money from increased taxes on rental cars and hotel rooms. The tenants would each pay $1.5 million a year in rent that would go toward the bonds as well, and contribute some money from the events they hosted, including taxes on parking and tickets.

But there was a late snag in the negotiations: Financial analysts approving the framework wanted the tenants to guarantee more money. To address that snag, the Texans agreed to pay a higher rent, upping their annual payment from $1.5 million to $4 million over the course of the 30-year contract.

In exchange, the team would get a major tax break. Instead of paying taxes on parking and ticket sales, it would receive rebates from the sports authority – and the rebates would not be capped. They were in addition to a rebate on local sales taxes for all NFL-related transactions.

These concessions have proved costly for local officials – and a boon to the Texans. From 2002 through 2023, the rebates have totaled roughly $58.9 million in today’s dollars, adjusting for inflation. The sales tax rebates have added another $58.5 million to the team’s coffers, helping to wipe out – nearly entirely – the rent the team agreed to pay over two decades ago.

As the Texans consider whether to push for public money to build a new football stadium, a Houston Chronicle analysis shows the team’s current lease agreement with the county has dramatically benefited the team and its billionaire owners, saving them over $100 million when compared to their Houston professional sports peers, the Astros and the Rockets.

Meanwhile, the Texans, the Rodeo and Harris County have started negotiating a new lease as the original 30-year deal nears its end point in 2032 – a process that could significantly alter the operating framework at NRG Park.

Two key factors led to significant savings for the Texans in its original lease. First, the team’s rent payments were essentially wiped out by the tax rebates, a perk that neither the Astros nor the Rockets enjoy. And second, the county insisted on owning maintenance efforts – and their often exorbitant costs – at NRG Stadium, whereas the Rockets and Astros have had to cover those costs at their facilities.

Since NRG Stadium opened in 2002, accounting for the rent and the tax rebates, the Texans have paid just $4 million total when adjusted for inflation. The Astros and Rockets, by comparison, have paid $242 million and $253 million, respectively, in rent and other lease payments since their facilities opened in 2000 and 2003.

The result for the Texans is one of the best rent structures – if not the best – in the NFL. Geoffrey Propheter, a professor of public finance at the University of Colorado Denver who studies stadium financing, said the only NFL teams who pay less either own their stadiums or have to cover maintenance costs. The Texans’ average rent payment is what you would expect from about two McDonald’s locations in Houston, he said.

“Being the landlord of a McDonald’s would be a wiser investment than being the landlord for the Texans under the current lease terms,” said Propheter.

And since the county took charge of maintenance, the Texans have not had to devote nearly as much money to upkeep, saving tens of millions of dollars.

The Astros say they have spent $197.4 million on maintenance and capital projects at Daikin Park since Jim Crane bought the team in late 2011, or roughly $15.2 million a year. The Rockets report spending $70 million on Toyota Center since Tilman Fertitta purchased that team in late 2017, or $10 million a year.

The Texans say they have spent $68 million on capital projects at NRG Stadium since 2002, along with another $54.5 million to pay off additional loans for capital projects they requested, for a total of $122.5 million, or $5.5 million per year.

Texans officials stressed that the team’s lease does not impose the same responsibilities for maintenance as the Rockets and Astros. The county pushed to take on that burden at NRG Stadium, and it is the county’s own spending that should be compared to the other teams, Texans officials said.

The Texans are not obligated to cover maintenance projects, and there is little incentive for them to do so. Since the team does not control the stadium’s offseason calendar, and the money-earning potential that goes along with it, there is less reason for them to invest in the facility, team officials argued. The Rockets and Astros control their facilities year round.

Still, the county’s initiative to take on maintenance means the Texans do not have to cover those costs. And the rent rebates mean the team has relatively few carrying costs for its facility.

“We have abided by the terms of our lease that was signed over 20 years ago and stepped-up multiple times to pledge support to the ongoing needs of the building with contributions outside of our lease structure,” said Omar Majzoub, the team’s director of communications. “In collaboration with the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, Harris County and HCSCC, we have explored ways to adjust the structure of the lease that would allow for a more sustainable plan moving forward.”

The Texan rental advantage .............


THE REST OF THE STORY
 
You're not considering the enormous rebates that the Texans are getting for renting from the County.
When you look at the arrangement as a whole, the McNairs and the Texans are coming out pretty darn well.

******************

Texans have paid $4M in rent since 2002. Rockets paid over $250M.

Dylan McGuinness10-13 minutes 3/21/2025

As county leaders and officials with Bob McNair’s nascent football team were closing in on a deal for a new football stadium in the early 2000s, the Texans landed a late concession that would prove to be a financial triumph for years to come.

The Harris County-Houston Sports Authority, a joint city-county venture responsible for financing all of Houston’s major sports stadiums, would take out bonds to build the new football facility for the Texans and Houston Livestock Show & Rodeo. It would pay off the debt over several decades, mostly with money from increased taxes on rental cars and hotel rooms. The tenants would each pay $1.5 million a year in rent that would go toward the bonds as well, and contribute some money from the events they hosted, including taxes on parking and tickets.

But there was a late snag in the negotiations: Financial analysts approving the framework wanted the tenants to guarantee more money. To address that snag, the Texans agreed to pay a higher rent, upping their annual payment from $1.5 million to $4 million over the course of the 30-year contract.

In exchange, the team would get a major tax break. Instead of paying taxes on parking and ticket sales, it would receive rebates from the sports authority – and the rebates would not be capped. They were in addition to a rebate on local sales taxes for all NFL-related transactions.

These concessions have proved costly for local officials – and a boon to the Texans. From 2002 through 2023, the rebates have totaled roughly $58.9 million in today’s dollars, adjusting for inflation. The sales tax rebates have added another $58.5 million to the team’s coffers, helping to wipe out – nearly entirely – the rent the team agreed to pay over two decades ago.

As the Texans consider whether to push for public money to build a new football stadium, a Houston Chronicle analysis shows the team’s current lease agreement with the county has dramatically benefited the team and its billionaire owners, saving them over $100 million when compared to their Houston professional sports peers, the Astros and the Rockets.

Meanwhile, the Texans, the Rodeo and Harris County have started negotiating a new lease as the original 30-year deal nears its end point in 2032 – a process that could significantly alter the operating framework at NRG Park.

Two key factors led to significant savings for the Texans in its original lease. First, the team’s rent payments were essentially wiped out by the tax rebates, a perk that neither the Astros nor the Rockets enjoy. And second, the county insisted on owning maintenance efforts – and their often exorbitant costs – at NRG Stadium, whereas the Rockets and Astros have had to cover those costs at their facilities.

Since NRG Stadium opened in 2002, accounting for the rent and the tax rebates, the Texans have paid just $4 million total when adjusted for inflation. The Astros and Rockets, by comparison, have paid $242 million and $253 million, respectively, in rent and other lease payments since their facilities opened in 2000 and 2003.

The result for the Texans is one of the best rent structures – if not the best – in the NFL. Geoffrey Propheter, a professor of public finance at the University of Colorado Denver who studies stadium financing, said the only NFL teams who pay less either own their stadiums or have to cover maintenance costs. The Texans’ average rent payment is what you would expect from about two McDonald’s locations in Houston, he said.

“Being the landlord of a McDonald’s would be a wiser investment than being the landlord for the Texans under the current lease terms,” said Propheter.

And since the county took charge of maintenance, the Texans have not had to devote nearly as much money to upkeep, saving tens of millions of dollars.

The Astros say they have spent $197.4 million on maintenance and capital projects at Daikin Park since Jim Crane bought the team in late 2011, or roughly $15.2 million a year. The Rockets report spending $70 million on Toyota Center since Tilman Fertitta purchased that team in late 2017, or $10 million a year.

The Texans say they have spent $68 million on capital projects at NRG Stadium since 2002, along with another $54.5 million to pay off additional loans for capital projects they requested, for a total of $122.5 million, or $5.5 million per year.

Texans officials stressed that the team’s lease does not impose the same responsibilities for maintenance as the Rockets and Astros. The county pushed to take on that burden at NRG Stadium, and it is the county’s own spending that should be compared to the other teams, Texans officials said.

The Texans are not obligated to cover maintenance projects, and there is little incentive for them to do so. Since the team does not control the stadium’s offseason calendar, and the money-earning potential that goes along with it, there is less reason for them to invest in the facility, team officials argued. The Rockets and Astros control their facilities year round.

Still, the county’s initiative to take on maintenance means the Texans do not have to cover those costs. And the rent rebates mean the team has relatively few carrying costs for its facility.

“We have abided by the terms of our lease that was signed over 20 years ago and stepped-up multiple times to pledge support to the ongoing needs of the building with contributions outside of our lease structure,” said Omar Majzoub, the team’s director of communications. “In collaboration with the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, Harris County and HCSCC, we have explored ways to adjust the structure of the lease that would allow for a more sustainable plan moving forward.”

The Texan rental advantage .............


THE REST OF THE STORY
Yes, and it's mainly further proof that Harris County has no business being in the business of owning and running a venue like NRG. Also doesn't change the fact that the sports authority put more wear and tear on NRG than the Texans.

This is the crux of the mater to me
The Texans are not obligated to cover maintenance projects, and there is little incentive for them to do so. Since the team does not control the stadium’s offseason calendar, and the money-earning potential that goes along with it, there is less reason for them to invest in the facility, team officials argued. The Rockets and Astros control their facilities year round.

Some sort of agreement has to be reached around this. If you want the Texans to cover maintenance projects they need to be in control of NRG year-round. It works for the Rockets and the Astros, yet for some reason Harris County f'ed it up for NRG. And yes I'm sure some sort of deal can be made for the rodeo
 
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I think the price is going to go up either way. The McNair's takeover and raise prices to maximize profits or the county raises prices to pay for the needed repairs and maintenance. If prices remain the same the NRG will become Astrodome II: Electric Bugaloo

Why are you so certain the county wouldn't raise prices to cover the obvious budgetary shortfall?
I'm pretty sure the county doesn't get parking and concessions. The McNair's and the subpar product that they've put on the field for over 2 decades shouldn't be to further grift the fans/city/county IMHO. Of course I'm a guy that would be perfectly content letting the team move rather than letting the grift continue.
 
I'm pretty sure the county doesn't get parking and concessions. The McNair's and the subpar product that they've put on the field for over 2 decades shouldn't be to further grift the fans/city/county IMHO. Of course I'm a guy that would be perfectly content letting the team move rather than letting the grift continue.
They might not for Texans games (honestly don't know) but they are for every other non-HLSR event at NRG; which is one of the busiest NFL venues in the country.

If the county isn't getting any revenue from gameday it's just further evidence that they should not be in the business of owning NRG
 
They might not for Texans games (honestly don't know) but they are for every other non-HLSR event at NRG; which is one of the busiest NFL venues in the country.

If the county isn't getting any revenue from gameday it's just further evidence that they should not be in the business of owning NRG
They aren't getting the parking/concessions revenue because that's the deal they had to cut with the McNair's to bring football back to Houston.
 
They aren't getting the parking/concessions revenue because that's the deal they had to cut with the McNair's to bring football back to Houston.
Okay, so they don't get it for Texans games. They do for every other event (minus the rodeo) at NRG, which is a significantly greater number of dates than the 10 Texans games (including preseason).
 
Okay, so they don't get it for Texans games. They do for every other event (minus the rodeo) at NRG, which is a significantly greater number of dates than the 10 Texans games (including preseason).
Your point is?

My point is that I believe in paying off current debts before incurring new debt. If the McNair's have to have these upgrades now so they can make more profits then let them pay for the upgrades or they can move. It doesn't really matter to me.
 
Your point is?

My point is that I believe in paying off current debts before incurring new debt. If the McNair's have to have these upgrades now so they can make more profits then let them pay for the upgrades or they can move. It doesn't really matter to me.
That the budget shortfall for repairs and maintenance is directly tied to poor management by Harris Co. Thought that was pretty clear.

The 1.4 billion figures came from an independent study for repairs and maintenance needed at NRG. The cost of those fall to the building owners, Harris Co. The cost has gotten so large because the county has been unable to keep up with maintenance and repairs. Why? Well because they suck at managing the venue. This has been coming from day 1 of the county's ownership of the building. Weirdly enough the county only insisted on owing NRG, not Daikin or the Toyota Center.

The McNair's should cover most of the cost of the upgrades, but using the recent upgrades to the Superdome as a comp, the cost of needed repairs is still greater than the cost of upgrades. 1.4 billion versus 500 million. I'll give you 1 guess as to how Harris County will raise the funds needed to cover their obligations to NRG.
 
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But you keep going on about it
No I dont, many here have commented on this topic much more than I have. Probably including yourself. Do you have a problem with me being fiscally conservative?
 
Hey Cal, Hannah, Caserio, and Ryans…..get the City of Houston a Super Bowl / Lombardi Trophy to brag about and you’d be surprised at how far Houston fans could throw their support behind renovations or the increase in what would become much needed seating.
 
Hey Cal, Hannah, Caserio, and Ryans…..get the City of Houston a Super Bowl / Lombardi Trophy to brag about and you’d be surprised at how far Houston fans could throw their support behind renovations or the increase in what would become much needed seating.
Why wasn't this logic applied to the Astros? And the Rockets were more than a decade away from their championships when they asked for and received a new arena.

Why do we hold the Texans/McNair's to such a different standard?
 
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Why wasn't this logic applied to the Astros? And the Rockets were more than a decade away from their championships when they asked for and received a new arena.

Why do we hold the Texans/McNair's to such a different standard?

I might be wrong, but the Rockets were still in the Summit when they hung their two Championship banners?
 
Texans average is $115?? Not buying it. Upper tank tickets were $92 when I had them, and that was 6 years ago.
The info came from SeatGeek, so I would assume it's average price on the secondary market, not the face value + PSL/other assorted fees
 
Hmmm
Harris County is responsible for the facility, but some former county officials have winced at the idea of subsidizing a new arena for the Rodeo, a nonprofit organization that generated $192 million in annual revenue and had $309 million in assets, according to its 2022 tax filing, the most recent that is publicly available. link
 
Hey Cal, Hannah, Caserio, and Ryans…..get the City of Houston a Super Bowl / Lombardi Trophy to brag about and you’d be surprised at how far Houston fans could throw their support behind renovations or the increase in what would become much needed seating.
Throwing "support" for renovations or new facility is much different than what the general Harris County taxpayers would be willing to pay out of their back pockets..........much different..............with or without a SB.
 
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