Is he though?
He had one season he missed almost entirely because of torn acl. The other 5 seasons he's started and played 72 out of 83 games.
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- Thread starter Wolf
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Is he though?
He had one season he missed almost entirely because of torn acl. The other 5 seasons he's started and played 72 out of 83 games.
and none of those late round ones will even be a threat out of the backfield.
I want to get all of the information I can on these guys and testing is part of this. The tests may not be 100% right all of the time, but they're right more than they're wrong.
Agreed.
Give me Swift at 1/2 the price and lets put the rest of the cap towards fixing the defense.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I’ll say it till the cows come home. I can’t think of one single move this off-season that will have a higher overall impact then a stud RB. And this isn’t a great year in the draft for one. Don’t get me wrong, a couple might emerge and end up being studs, but it’s a crapshoot in the draft.
Barkley and Jacobs may end up being tagged or reaching a LT deal but if not I am on the horn to Barkley’s agent the first minute of the tampering period. If I can’t get him, I reach out to Jacobs agent next.
If I can’t sign either, I would turn very quickly to Henry. Dude still has tread on the tires, and while not the two aforementioned guys above…is still a factor in the pass game. And he would be a hoss in short yardage, goal line, 4 minute, etc.
I’d be pumped about any of these 3.
There are some next tier guys that I would be moderately happy with as well and would likely start on this team, like Swift or Pollard. But these guys would be more of the stopgap variety and are better suited to the Robin role. We need a Batman in the worst way…a 3 down stud. That only comes in 3 packages as named above. Get one of those 3, and this offseason becomes a huge success.
Barkley and Jacobs may end up being tagged or reaching a LT deal but if not I am on the horn to Barkley’s agent the first minute of the tampering period. If I can’t get him, I reach out to Jacobs agent next.
If I can’t sign either, I would turn very quickly to Henry. Dude still has tread on the tires, and while not the two aforementioned guys above…is still a factor in the pass game. And he would be a hoss in short yardage, goal line, 4 minute, etc.
I’d be pumped about any of these 3.
There are some next tier guys that I would be moderately happy with as well and would likely start on this team, like Swift or Pollard. But these guys would be more of the stopgap variety and are better suited to the Robin role. We need a Batman in the worst way…a 3 down stud. That only comes in 3 packages as named above. Get one of those 3, and this offseason becomes a huge success.
When has Henry ever been a factor in the passing game? And you say he has tread on his tires. But in the two Texans/Titans games this season he looked like a shell of the fearsome runner who once dominated. Henry is going to get a big time haircut from the $12.5 million he has been getting in Tennessee. Still, I don't see the value of bringing in a 2 down RB that will trigger defenses to play run heavy. If that's the best the Texans can do, just keep what they have and make RB more of a priority in the draft.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
I agree with everything until you got to Henry...after that I had to hit abort.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I agree.
Texans were able to keep him quiet that last game.
Get a genuine dual threat back in here and that opens up the playbook and creates headaches for defenses.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Just a memory refresher.
You wanna forget about the run game?
Imagine adding Mike Evans or Brian Thomas to this offense.
You wanna forget about the run game?
Imagine adding Mike Evans or Brian Thomas to this offense.
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I just read on NFL.com that the Saints Alvin Kamara is a possible cut for salary cap concerns. I think Kamara can still play. And there's no tell when Kamara is lined up in the backfield. Maybe not the complete answer for the Texans at RB. But he could be a big part of it.
NFC cut candidates: Alvin Kamara, Aaron Jones among potential cap casualties of free agency frenzy
With free agency less than a month away, NFL teams will be looking to clear cap space in the coming weeks. So, which notable players could be released? Matt Okada spotlights potential cut candidates across the NFC.www.nfl.com
Nick Chubb as well
Chubb made four straight Pro Bowls before suffering a grisly, season-ending knee injury in Week 2 of this past season. At age 28 and fresh off the second major knee injury of his playing career, the pounding runner carries a $15.825 million cap hit in 2024 (third-highest among RBs). The Browns -- who currently project nearly $20 million over the cap -- could certainly use the $11.8 million in savings they would gain by cutting Chubb. He should return to play somewhere in 2024, but barring a major contract restructure, I don't think it will be in Cleveland.
Imagine adding Thomas in the draft and Barkley in FA, while keeping Schultz and drafting Theo Johnson to go along with Schultz in the 3rd.
That's an elite offense.
badboy
Hall of Fame
It seems that most are amiable to paying Barkley or Derrick Henry approximately $10 million a p y. I think that both could be signed with a salary cap hit of a combined $10 million for 2024. It is all in how the contract is written.
First thought may be two Alpha power backs? Saquon's receiving could have him on the line with Henry at the running back position for some plays. This would keep both rested hopefully for the entire season. Just a thought.
First thought may be two Alpha power backs? Saquon's receiving could have him on the line with Henry at the running back position for some plays. This would keep both rested hopefully for the entire season. Just a thought.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
Rather have Barkley with Motor giving him breathers when he needs it.
I'm looking at signing a vet upgrade at RB and a difference maker on the defensive side of the ball.
Add say Barkley 10 mil, Sneed, 13 mil and Whitehead 5 mil. You would have 35 mil or so to re-sign your own FA's.
Draft a DT in the 2nd and LB in the 4th.
I know there's a lot of buzz regarding Barkley as a free agent. I just can't see the Giants letting him go. It would cost $15 million against the cap to franchise Barkley. But the Giants have enough cap maneuverability to get that done. Or give Barkley a multi-year deal. Really, Barkley is all they have on offense, though they're very likely to take a playmaker in the draft. I think Barkley stays in New York.
I
I agree, I'm on board with Swift for 1/2 the cost of Barkley if that means getting a couple of extra player in FA.
I agree, I'm on board with Swift for 1/2 the cost of Barkley if that means getting a couple of extra player in FA.
Swift isn't getting tagged, so more realistic.
Porky
Hall of Fame
The Texans (Thanks DeMeco) had a great game plan and execution against Henry. Henry also had arguably one of the very worst o-lines in the league.
I'm not sure about a tell. Henry had 28 catches last year, and he's had more throughout his career, so I don't buy your argument on that.
Even with the crappy line, rookie QB and a stacked box, he ran for nearly 1200 yards at 4.2 per carry.
I also like Kamara. For me, he'd be 4th right after Henry if he became available. He averaged 3.9/carry with a total of 694.
Where he shines is the passing game. Kamara had 75/466 vs. Henry's 28/214. That said, Henry's catches averaged 7.6 to Kamara's 6.2.
Henry had a long run of 69, and Kamara's long run was 17.
Give me the guy first that can pound the rock on goal line, short yardage and 4 minute. I would be happy with Kamara too and I can see his benefit too, but these are different guys, and as a first choice...Henry...all day and every day.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Swift would be meh. He's Singletary. He is a complimentary piece. We already have one of those. Certainly a decent player, but a game changer/difference maker? Nope. There are two true game-changers that might be available and a couple of others that would at least be solid, capable, unquestioned starters, like the aforementioned Henry.
We'll see if these guys sign or get tagged. I'm not as confident as Lucky that Barkley returns to the Giants. They may decide to turn the page. Premium RBs on crappy teams just make them slightly less crappy, which in some strange way is counter-productive. On an already good team - that's where they become difference makers. Barkley on this team would be a difference-maker.
If there was any doubt about our defensive improvement under Ryans here are some defensive stats to get us through the off-season.
We had 2 CBs in the top 10 in INTs. Stingley with 5 tied at #4 and Nelson with 4 tied at #5.
Stingley only played 11 games and all the other DBs with 5 or more INTs played at least 16 games.
Nelson is not as impressive because 17 other DBs had 4 INTs.
It has been a longtime since we had something to celebrate in pass coverage.
As far as sacks go we set a franchise record with 46 sacks which breaks the previous single-season franchise record of 45 set back in 2015.
We had 2 CBs in the top 10 in INTs. Stingley with 5 tied at #4 and Nelson with 4 tied at #5.
Stingley only played 11 games and all the other DBs with 5 or more INTs played at least 16 games.
Nelson is not as impressive because 17 other DBs had 4 INTs.
It has been a longtime since we had something to celebrate in pass coverage.
As far as sacks go we set a franchise record with 46 sacks which breaks the previous single-season franchise record of 45 set back in 2015.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I would rather not resign our own and get better ones. I am speaking for the most part of them.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
The fact that he's all they have...is probably why he wants to leave. Sometimes its not all about the $ and he may want a chance to play in meaningful games and try to win something and he knows thats not gonna happen in NY.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I agree with this. As of today, they are projected to have about 21 million in cap space (17th). Yes, they could get something done if they really wanted to do so, but as I mentioned above...they may want to turn the page. Unlike the Texans, who had the cap space and draft capital to make a very quick turn-around, I don't see that for the Giants. I don't follow them closely, but even if they get Daniels from LSU and he's "the guy" they don't have much else other than Barkley on offense. So, Barkley will be looking at 29-30 before the Giants have a real shot at a championship - and that's if things pull together perfectly. In the Texans, he sees a team that has already put itself into a contending window. The Giants haven't even measured for the window.
There is also this nugget -
Giants unlikely to use franchise tag on declining Saquon Barkley | New York Post
Me again - I don't buy the 27 and falling off a cliff argument. I hope they believe it, though.
PS - I see rumors that Jerrah and the Cowboys might get in on the Barkley sweepstakes as well.
Give me Swift who I think is very good. A poor mans Barkley and bring back Singletary as well as drafting a guy. If signing Swift instead of Barkley means that you could also sign Willie Gay and Sneed then give me this over just Barkley.
That's some specific information. I can't dispute that analysis, in general. Some RBs fall off well before age 27. It's not a position of longevity, to be sure.
But you still have to dig down on individual players, rather than a blanket rule. McCaffery was 27 all 2023 season, and was head and shoulders the best RB in the league. Of the 12 1000 yard rushers in 2023, 5 were 27 or older. There is an age RBs begin to fall off a cliff. I just don't think that age is 27.
Are the Giants rebuilding? If so, it makes little sense to spend resources on Barkley that could be used on players that will still be there when the rebuild is over. But has anyone told Giant co-owners John Mara and Steve Tisch about this rebuild? They brought Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll in from Buffalo to win. Which they did in 2022. Not sure these older owners are ready to go full on rebuild.
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Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Derrick Henry says hi - but yeah I get it.
Age is one reason I wouldn't want DH for more than a one year contract.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Concur! Singletary almost hit 900 yards on a 4.3 YPC average. Singletary has no issues catching out of the backfield. The crazy thing, Singletary would be a cheaper signing than either of the (3) mentioned. Pierce is still on his rookie contract, money wise, which could buy him this off-season to prove he has finally grasped the new running game. There will be veteran RB's available as the cuts start happening. The big move is getting the right RB in the draft which doesn't begin until RD2 or RD3. Personally, I'm still watching RB- Jaylen Wright (Tennessee) when he goes to the Combine and does his Pro Day. If he hits that sub 4.4-40.....his stock is going to go up b/c he's an ideal runner for the zone system, catches just fine out of the backfield, and is a willing blocker in the backfield.
Addressing RT and getting the other pieces on the OL back healthy will greatly improve the running attack.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Not addressing the running game with the person who totes the rock is a mistake of epic proportions. Singeltary isn't a three down back. Period. End of story. He's a companion piece and isn't even under contract. Pierce stinks in this offense, and it's a fools errand to hope and pray he somehow gets it over the next 6 months.
RT is fine. If Howard needs time, they can sign Jones, Fant, make a trade, etc. They have all kinds of dough tied up on the line. To hell with the line. We've been talking about the line longer than the Reconquista War (PS - that war lasted 781 years).
If Nick doesn't figure out a way to vastly improve the RB room, this offseason is a 100% epic fail, no matter what else they do. Get a damn hoss at RB Nick! Be Nike and just do it!
RT is fine. If Howard needs time, they can sign Jones, Fant, make a trade, etc. They have all kinds of dough tied up on the line. To hell with the line. We've been talking about the line longer than the Reconquista War (PS - that war lasted 781 years).
If Nick doesn't figure out a way to vastly improve the RB room, this offseason is a 100% epic fail, no matter what else they do. Get a damn hoss at RB Nick! Be Nike and just do it!
Look at how teams like the Chiefs/Ravens/Lions handle their RB rooms. I prefer to handle the RB room the way they handle their room. You're right, Singletary isn't a 3 down RB. But add another couple of guys that compliment his skillset and you've got a really good RB room. There's a reason most NFL teams RB rooms are trending this way and less to the 3 down RB. With this said I would love to see Barkley in FA and Thomas at 1-23.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Chiefs have Mahomes. That’s a one off situation that makes them unique.
The Lions have a two headed monster, and they spend the 12th overall on the position last year, so agains, I don’t see your comp.
And the Ravens have Lamar Jackson, a unicorn QB that makes that running game very unique. Again - bad comp.
You left out the 49ers who traded a lot of jack for CMC and is worth every penny.
The Lions have a two headed monster, and they spend the 12th overall on the position last year, so agains, I don’t see your comp.
And the Ravens have Lamar Jackson, a unicorn QB that makes that running game very unique. Again - bad comp.
You left out the 49ers who traded a lot of jack for CMC and is worth every penny.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
In my scenario, I 100% addressed the RB position by selecting Jaylen Wright. Second, the Texans could also select another RB later in the draft, sign a reasonable veteran FA RB. Third, Pierce would only be moved if Caserio gets an offer he can’t refuse or can bundle Pierce into a trade-up opportunity.
As for the OL…..you better have one if you have any intentions of seeing your running game be successful. I don’t care what’s been invested in the OL, it’s not working and needs to be fixed. Fix this and you fix the rest of the offense with a QB like Stroud.
banned1976
sleeper mode
RB - Trey Benson. And keep drafting RB's every year or two, avoid "old" RB's. We all know what the average NFL RB career looks like, unless you're Adrian Peterson (also ended his career on a whimper but what a career!).
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
The good thing about this concept…..RB’s are going to continue to fade out of RD1. The highest rated RB’s will probably go in RD2 with the rest being there in RD3 through RD7 or as UDFA’s.
Porky
Hall of Fame
So drafting an unknown rookie in the middle rounds is your answer to addressing RB?
We have a window that just got flung wide the hell open. You've got a likely superstar at QB on a rookie deal. You need to get him big-time weapons NOW. Strike while the iron is super hot. Get this kid major league game-changing weapons while this window is open. If you want to improve the line - get him weapons. Everything works in tandem.
Your answer is a wing and a prayer rookie. If that is Nick's answer, it's an epic fail. I'm fine with a rookie too BUT we need an accomplished vet if available. Now...if none are available, that's a bit different. But as of today, it looks like Nick has a golden opportunity to put this offense into the next level. It must be done!
We have a window that just got flung wide the hell open. You've got a likely superstar at QB on a rookie deal. You need to get him big-time weapons NOW. Strike while the iron is super hot. Get this kid major league game-changing weapons while this window is open. If you want to improve the line - get him weapons. Everything works in tandem.
Your answer is a wing and a prayer rookie. If that is Nick's answer, it's an epic fail. I'm fine with a rookie too BUT we need an accomplished vet if available. Now...if none are available, that's a bit different. But as of today, it looks like Nick has a golden opportunity to put this offense into the next level. It must be done!
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
The window doesn’t close after next year.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
RD2 and RD3 RB's of today were RD1 RB's 10 years ago. RB's didn't change....NFL offenses changed. NFL offenses that prize a game changing run game have the luxury of holding off until RD2 or later to select their future stars in the backfield. I believe Harbaugh and the Chargers will be one of those teams installing a run first approach. I also believe Ryans would like to see this approach with his offense. Ryans also understands his run game is going nowhere without an OL that can create running lanes for the backs. So, lets compare the big name RB's looking for a Texans payday:
Singletary has had one consistent season after another with an outstanding YPC average over his entire NFL career.
Saquon Barkley- 3 banner seasons & 3 ugly seasons / Saquon is looking for a payday, but which SQ does the signing team get?
Josh Jacobs has had 2 banner seasons and 3 so-so seasons / Like SB, JJ will be looking for a payday based on 2 banner seasons....which RB does the signing team get for the money?
Derrick Henry has been a work-horse since he arrived in the NFL with big season after big season. Pretty much the only other RB who has proven consistent enough with his performance to warrant the payday he may get.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I'm warming to the idea of DH in here but there is one consideration I'm looking at - we have a first place schedule this next season with plenty of top defenses to overcome - hopefully he still has enough power in that bod to handle that.
Yeah, the same could be said for SB and JJ or any other QB for that matter but age has to be a consideration.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Henry was playing with an offense that had a zero impact QB and an OL that was as bad as the Texans. Give Henry Stroud and an improved OL....and the Texans would get the big impact Henry for another season or two.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
Same can be said for Saquon for his entire career in NY....blasted Oline, No qb, and no other help to speak of at any other position and yet he still put up the numbers that he did.
Between Saquon and Henry its not even close for me....give me Saquon ALL DAY EVERYDAY. He's a much more complete 3 down back and is a helluva more weapon receiving out of the backfield than Henry is. And the titans have rode the hell out of henry and I would start questioning how much tread life is left on those tires.
But hey, thats just me and my $.02.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I would also prefer Barkley. My next target is Jacobs but I feel he will sign with the Raiders...so if Jacobs and Barkley are gone....I'm calling Derek and telling him he needs to come to the dark side, lol. I think a 3 yr/18 million package with an easy way to release him after 25 would be a great signing. He's nearer to the end than the other two guys...but he had the 2nd most yards in the league last year behind a crap line, and while he's not a true 3 down back like Barkley, he can catch the rock, so he's not a complete tell if he's in the game.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
those are my top 2 targets as well...in that order. Barkley then Jacobs. If we cant land either of them Id look at Eckler and Swift then henry.
banned1976
sleeper mode
In 6 of Ahman Green's 9 years as a NFL running back playing for the Packers he rushed for over 1,000 yards. In 2006, his last as a Packer he rushed for 1,059 yards in 14 games. In 2007, his first as a Texan he played in six games and rushed for 260 yards. I probably felt that more than some here on this board because I was living in Duluth, MN when the Texans signed him. I worked with a lot of Packers and Vikings fans. They all laughed at the Texans before the ink on that Texans/Green contract was dry.
If the Texans bring in any of those veteran running backs being discussed in this thread, I hope like hell they have a back-up plan. They didn't have one in 2007 - Ron Dayne was the leading rusher on that team with 773 yards. He was 29 in 2007. Luckily in 2008, the Texans drafted a ROOKIE in the THIRD round named Steve Slaton who rushed for over 1200 yards. He fell off a cliff after that but if we're just looking at "striking while the iron is hot", I'd take Slaton type of rookie season if it only cost a 3rd round pick over a one or two year, 23-million-dollar Ahman Green.
BTW, if the Texans sign any of these veteran running backs mentioned above for more than two years, it would look like O'Brien is still pulling some strings.
If the Texans bring in any of those veteran running backs being discussed in this thread, I hope like hell they have a back-up plan. They didn't have one in 2007 - Ron Dayne was the leading rusher on that team with 773 yards. He was 29 in 2007. Luckily in 2008, the Texans drafted a ROOKIE in the THIRD round named Steve Slaton who rushed for over 1200 yards. He fell off a cliff after that but if we're just looking at "striking while the iron is hot", I'd take Slaton type of rookie season if it only cost a 3rd round pick over a one or two year, 23-million-dollar Ahman Green.
BTW, if the Texans sign any of these veteran running backs mentioned above for more than two years, it would look like O'Brien is still pulling some strings.
Porky
Hall of Fame
It’s the guaranteed money that’s most important. They can go 3 or 4 years with an escape hatch built in. I’m not sure why so many e fans are so timid. Timidity and a quarter will buy you a cup of coffee. Unless it’s Starbucks in which case, a second mortgage and timidity will buy you a cup of coffee. Look what the 49ers did with CMC. Not only paid the guy in $$$$ but look what they gave up to get him.
Barkley isn’t CMC, but he can at least see him from his back patio. And he’s the best guy available unless you want to make a trade and give up valuable draft capital in the process.
Barkley isn’t CMC, but he can at least see him from his back patio. And he’s the best guy available unless you want to make a trade and give up valuable draft capital in the process.
Agreed. I like Henry, moreso that he's out of possumholler. I like Barkley. Used to be in love with Kamara, but still like him a lot.
But if we get any of them they have to be incentive ladden with easy outs.
The problem is that they could very well have another 6 years in them, but when a RB in their 30s drop off, it's not gradual.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
Especially when that BEAST is only 25-26 yrs old (Barkley and Jacobs) still young and in their prime...got a good 3-4 more DOMINANT years left in them.