Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

#12 Pick

Ford Wheaton doesn't play to his posted speed. Much like the Michigan corner and his 4.27

Looking at film on Ford-Wheaton…..the West Virginia QB couldn’t throw the ball to his posted speed.

This was a primary reason I mentioned after watching his film…..it was like watching Schaub trying to hit AJ in stride. So many times, AJ had to slow down or come back to the ball and make a contested catch after he got past the coverage.

BFW will be a special receiver to the NFL team that gives him a QB that can lead him to a throw without breaking stride.
 
Looking at film on Ford-Wheaton…..the West Virginia QB couldn’t throw the ball to his posted speed.

This was a primary reason I mentioned after watching his film…..it was like watching Schaub trying to hit AJ in stride. So many times, AJ had to slow down or come back to the ball and make a contested catch after he got past the coverage.

BFW will be a special receiver to the NFL team that gives him a QB that can lead him to a throw without breaking stride.
Good to have this perspective. I've moved away from WR on day one or two, but would like some speed late.
 
Looking at film on Ford-Wheaton…..the West Virginia QB couldn’t throw the ball to his posted speed.

This was a primary reason I mentioned after watching his film…..it was like watching Schaub trying to hit AJ in stride. So many times, AJ had to slow down or come back to the ball and make a contested catch after he got past the coverage.

BFW will be a special receiver to the NFL team that gives him a QB that can lead him to a throw without breaking stride.
Just watched some of his highlights. He’s nice for show. What round do you think he will go in?
 
I'm looking at two WRs on the third day, Trey Palmer being the other. What do you know about him, where do you think he'll go?
I like Charlie Jones from Purdue. He’s gonna be strictly a slot WR, but he is probably the best route runner in the draft and he gets in and out of his breaks on a dime and always gets separation from defenders.
 
Looking at film on Ford-Wheaton…..the West Virginia QB couldn’t throw the ball to his posted speed.

This was a primary reason I mentioned after watching his film…..it was like watching Schaub trying to hit AJ in stride. So many times, AJ had to slow down or come back to the ball and make a contested catch after he got past the coverage.

BFW will be a special receiver to the NFL team that gives him a QB that can lead him to a throw without breaking stride.
You remember Demarrius Thomas and Calvin Johnson playing wr in a triple option type offense? You remember who the qb was at Georgia Tech? Listen, in college, with the hash marks wide and all that space, if you're as fast as he clocked, you're not going to be 11 ypc. Go look at a 1 dimensional wr like Mike Wallace or the late Chris Henry and both were over 20 yoc because they could just outrun people. You can't remember their qbs either because it doesn't matter in college when you're big and fast on the field.
 
You remember Demarrius Thomas and Calvin Johnson playing wr in a triple option type offense? You remember who the qb was at Georgia Tech? Listen, in college, with the hash marks wide and all that space, if you're as fast as he clocked, you're not going to be 11 ypc. Go look at a 1 dimensional wr like Mike Wallace or the late Chris Henry and both were over 20 yoc because they could just outrun people. You can't remember their qbs either because it doesn't matter in college when you're big and fast on the field.

Your response leads me to believe you didn’t watch any available video on Ford-Wheaton. If you had, you would’ve noticed the QB’s inability to hit him beyond coverage.

The things I noticed:
1. Ability to get behind coverage.
2. Ability to make contested catches.
3. For a big receiver, the ability to get low and make the catch.
4. Willing and able to make the catches over the middle.

Get him a QB with a bigger arm and his YPC would go up as well.
 
Last edited:
Your response leads me to believe you didn’t watch any available video on Ford-Wheaton. If you had, you would’ve noticed the QB’s inability to hit him beyond coverage.

The things I noticed:
1. Ability to get behind coverage.
2. Ability to make contested catches.
3. For a big receiver, the ability to get low and make the catch.
4. Willing and able to make the catches over the middle.

Get him a QB with a bigger arm and his YPC would go up as well.
I watched Ford Wheaton and I didn't notice the separation from a 4.3 guy. I didn't notice him running by coverage or catching a hitch and out running people in space like what happens in college. I see it with Hyatt,Johnston,Mims to name a few. With him, nothing but contested catches. That's why I said there is no way on earth a 4.3 guy in college isn't butt naked and out running coverage. Will Fuller did it and you can't name his qb. McClarin of Washington was doing it no matter who was the qb. Martavius Bryant was doing it and he was 20 ypc guy also. If you're in college and running a 4.3, you shouldn't be 10 ypc .
 
I watched Ford Wheaton and I didn't notice the separation from a 4.3 guy. I didn't notice him running by coverage or catching a hitch and out running people in space like what happens in college. I see it with Hyatt,Johnston,Mims to name a few. With him, nothing but contested catches. That's why I said there is no way on earth a 4.3 guy in college isn't butt naked and out running coverage. Will Fuller did it and you can't name his qb. McClarin of Washington was doing it no matter who was the qb. Martavius Bryant was doing it and he was 20 ypc guy also. If you're in college and running a 4.3, you shouldn't be 10 ypc .
To me Wheaton seems to not get off on the snap quickly sometimes; almost as if he's trying to avoid a penalty. Then uses his speed to make up for "hesitation".
 
I can’t wrap my head around all these calls for a WR @12. What receiver would add more to this team than say Devin Weatherspoon or Christian Gonzales or Bijan Robinson or Peter Skoronski? I would draft weatherspoon at #2. This isn’t a great year for WRs. theres not going to be much talent difference from the WRs drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round. Take the most talented player available. consider your needs later in the draft. We just don’t have enough talent on this team to reach for need.
 
I would draft weatherspoon at #2.
What? Witherspoon didn't face top competition. Illinois never played Ohio State in Witherspoon's 4 years. They did play Michigan State last year, when likely 3rd round pick Jayden Reed beat Witherspoon like a drum (with safety help @ 1:18).

 
I can’t wrap my head around all these calls for a WR @12. What receiver would add more to this team than say Devin Weatherspoon or Christian Gonzales or Bijan Robinson or Peter Skoronski? I would draft weatherspoon at #2. This isn’t a great year for WRs. theres not going to be much talent difference from the WRs drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round. Take the most talented player available. consider your needs later in the draft. We just don’t have enough talent on this team to reach for need.
Gonzales is better then Witherspoon and has played against better competition.
I can't really see Texans taking one before #33 as they spent #3 on one last draft.
 
#12 (or what is more likely going to be #14-#20) is either WR or Edge/Pass Rusher. Either someone directly helping the new QB, or someone getting the other QB.

There's no way we're drafting a corner #12 after #3 last year. The secondary is in pretty good shape. The WR core is warmed over crap topped with maggots. If they don't go WR at #12 you can bet your sweet bippy they will at #33.
 
#12 (or what is more likely going to be #14-#20) is either WR or Edge/Pass Rusher. Either someone directly helping the new QB, or someone getting the other QB.

In the spirit of someone directly helping the new QB, how about a really killer O-lineman if one's avaliable? I agree with your idea here though, and if they go QB with #2, and don't go offense with #12, the it'll be offense with #33.
 
I can’t wrap my head around all these calls for a WR @12. What receiver would add more to this team than say Devin Weatherspoon or Christian Gonzales or Bijan Robinson or Peter Skoronski? I would draft weatherspoon at #2. This isn’t a great year for WRs. theres not going to be much talent difference from the WRs drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round. Take the most talented player available. consider your needs later in the draft. We just don’t have enough talent on this team to reach for need.
I guess it is the thinking if a QB is taken at 2, give him supporting cast. Caserio brings in Mason and will probably draft a center to start sooner than later. He brings in Singletary to strengthen that part of QB arsenal. A 6'3" 211 pound 4.49 pro day with Quentin's stats and ceiling may in Demeco's mind be equal or more valuable than Gonzalez.

I have Gonzalez rated above Witherspoon but would love both. There are good corners later in draft as well as WRs.
 
#12 (or what is more likely going to be #14-#20) is either WR or Edge/Pass Rusher. Either someone directly helping the new QB, or someone getting the other QB.

There's no way we're drafting a corner #12 after #3 last year. The secondary is in pretty good shape. The WR core is warmed over crap topped with maggots. If they don't go WR at #12 you can bet your sweet bippy they will at #33.
Pittsburgh, Detroit and Seattle hopefully will seriously come calling.

Steelers desperately needing LT ; Lions and Seattle not having chance like this to get a long haul QB might bid against each other for 12.
 
In the spirit of someone directly helping the new QB, how about a really killer O-lineman if one's avaliable? I agree with your idea here though, and if they go QB with #2, and don't go offense with #12, the it'll be offense with #33.

Last year they drafted a G at 15, they just traded for another G, they gave Tunsil a huge extension, and Howard is a 1st rounder who is likely to be extended...so no...not buying that idea whatsoever. C likely later somewhere but no way at 12.

Very slight chance of a TE at #12 but that's a long shot. It's either WR or someone that gets after the passer - most likely a DE that fits Demeco's scheme.
 
Last year they drafted a G at 15, they just traded for another G, they gave Tunsil a huge extension, and Howard is a 1st rounder who is likely to be extended...so no...not buying that idea whatsoever. C likely later somewhere but no way at 12.

Very slight chance of a TE at #12 but that's a long shot. It's either WR or someone that gets after the passer - most likely a DE that fits Demeco's scheme.
We need a quality pass rusher bad - two would be better. Make it interesting for our secondary.
 
We need a quality pass rusher bad - two would be better. Make it interesting for our secondary.

Edge rusher is the biggest need on defense.

QB and edge rusher are the two biggest needs on the team. I’d put center 3rd, but I feel like the team can work around the position better than trotting out the current roster of QBs and DEs. Those will be addressed early. Ideally i’d like them to grab two DEs in this draft. Get a nice solid rotation on the DL to jumpstart the transformation.
 
Oijiiiuioii
I guess it is the thinking if a QB is taken at 2, give him supporting cast. Caserio brings in Mason and will probably draft a center to start sooner than later. He brings in Singletary to strengthen that part of QB arsenal. A 6'3" 211 pound 4.49 pro day with Quentin's stats and ceiling may in Demeco's mind be equal or more valuable than Gonzalez.

I have Gonzalez rated above Witherspoon but would love both. There are good corners later in draft as well as WRs.
You don’t have to spend 12 to get him a supporting cast. We have 12 picks. Like I said I don’t understand why anyone would take a less talented p,Ayer high in the draft on a team that is starving for talent. I guess you guys are looking at instant gratification and I’m in, add as much talent as possible and figure it out mode.

Ive gone back and forth on Witherspoon and Gonzales. I love both of them. Their in a class of their own and there is a huge difference in either of them and the CBS you can get “later in the draft”. The only other CB close to them is DJ Turner. I’m sure Lucky will have something to say about that. He’s the most twitchy player in this draft. I thought he was really small and that’s why he wasn’t getting much attention from the draft pundits. Then he blew away the combine. I look at it like this, add another great CB and have a great young secondary (Remember this is a passing league) or reach for a WR.

I like a lot of the WRs predicted to go in the later rounds. Perry, Mims, Mingo, Reed off the top of my head.

I agree about Center. There’s many ways to go there as well. #33 JMS is my favorite Pick in most of my mocks.
 
Ive gone back and forth on Witherspoon and Gonzales. I love both of them. Their in a class of their own and there is a huge difference in either of them and the CBS you can get “later in the draft”. The only other CB close to them is DJ Turner
What about the Jim Thorpe award winner Tomlinson?
 
I'm surprised not to see more pundits here for the dl. Our pass rush and run defense upfront really sucked last year. I know a healthy Collins and signing Rankins should definitely help ,but I want more.

Between picks 2, 12, and 33, one player almost has to be a qb and another almost has to be a dl imo.

Assuming we draft a qb high, I would actually put a bigger emphasis on center then a playmaking receiver. A strong center is that last piece to what could be a very solid ol for us. Needless to say, I don't want to "Carr" a rookie qb.

In a perfect world we aren't drafting this high again and that would seem to fit the wr position. Good wr's don't tend to go super high. If we're drafting between 9-15 next year that's prime real-estate for a best inclass wr.
 
I'm surprised not to see more pundits here for the dl. Our pass rush and run defense upfront really sucked last year. I know a healthy Collins and signing Rankins should definitely help ,but I want more.

Between picks 2, 12, and 33, one player almost has to be a qb and another almost has to be a dl imo.

Assuming we draft a qb high, I would actually put a bigger emphasis on center then a playmaking receiver. A strong center is that last piece to what could be a very solid ol for us. Needless to say, I don't want to "Carr" a rookie qb.

In a perfect world we aren't drafting this high again and that would seem to fit the wr position. Good wr's don't tend to go super high. If we're drafting between 9-15 next year that's prime real-estate for a best inclass wr.
You remember how bad the oline was when Watson arrived? He didn't get "Carr-ed" and he was sacked more than Carr. Burrow also was sacked more than Carr, but he balled out too. Point being, Carr wasn't good ,wasn't a good choice and if we listen, he wasn't 1st in last to leave. I'm not against taking a center, but it can be done in the 3rd or 4th rd. The Texans have one of the worse wr groups in the nfl. They're almost dead last without any speed to threatened the perimeter. That alone stacks the box and make it difficult on your qb.
 
You remember how bad the oline was when Watson arrived? He didn't get "Carr-ed" and he was sacked more than Carr. Burrow also was sacked more than Carr, but he balled out too.

I'm not looking into games missed by injury but it appears in a head to head comparison your wrong. Do YOU truly remember and fathom how bad Carr's line really was?

I'm using a 4 year sample size based on Watson's tenure here and it is as follows:

Watson total sacks (17 through 20) = 174

Carr total sacks (02 through 05) = 208

Joe Burrow's sample size is only 3 years in the league for comparison. 20 through 22. His sack total stands at 124. He'd have to be sacked 84 times this year to equal Carr.

Please don't mistake this post as a Carr apology thread. It's not. These are the actual stats and your post is clearly wrong. Why should I take the rest of your opinions at face value?
 
How many of those were his own creation by running out of bounds behind the los?


Fair question. I saw DC do it a lot and dw some to. I'd wager it doesn't equal the 34 sack difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB
Why is it so important to you?


That's the crux of the original conversation. Nobody's done anything to disprove it. I'd rather give a rookie qb more protection then a good wr who might make a play 3-5 times a game. Jmo.
 
I'm using a 4 year sample size based on Watson's tenure here and it is as follows:

Watson total sacks (17 through 20) = 174

Carr total sacks (02 through 05) = 208

This is interesting to me, so I broke down some numbers a little bit when I should have been going to bed.

These two numbers are hard to compare for a couple of reasons.

So I broke it down year by year. I calculated the total number of dropbacks per season as # of passing attempts + # of sacks, tallied all that up and then got an overall percentage of dropbacks that ended in sacks. I didn't have an easy way to add scrambles into that.

Carr got sacked on 11.3% of his dropbacks and Watson got sacked on 9.0% of his. Even though Carr played more games, Watson dropped back more. Watson was pretty consistently sacked at around 8% of his dropbacks, but his second year was bad and he got sacked on 10.9% of those. Carr, otoh, had two years (1st and 4th) where he was sacked on 14.6% and 13.8% of his dropbacks, but he had one year where he was only sacked on 4.8% of his dropbacks (but he didn't throw a lot of passes that year.) That one year of not getting sacked much offset his other 3 years where he was getting sacked at a rate from 3 to almost 5 times a game.

I'm not drawing any conclusions from these numbers. I'm just throwing them out there.

My suspicion was that Watson would have done better in an offense like I suspect Slowick is going to install. I think one of Watson's problems was reading the defenses, identifying blitzes, and making the line calls to properly set the blocking. I also think it's interesting that his sack percentage was 10.5% with the Browns, but that could easily just him being rusty.

NOTE: I forgot to add that over those 4 years, Carr got sacked at a rate of 3.5 times per game and Watson got sacked at a rate of 3.2 times per game.
 
That's the crux of the original conversation. Nobody's done anything to disprove it. I'd rather give a rookie qb more protection then a good wr who might make a play 3-5 times a game. Jmo.

Yeah, I'm part of the draft-a-O-lineman early crowd.

Yall are lucky I'm not doing the draft, 'cause all you'd have after the first two rounds would be shiny new lineman. Take a QB in the 3rd round so we'll have something to argue over all season. Another Mills, it'll be great!
 
This is interesting to me, so I broke down some numbers a little bit when I should have been going to bed.

These two numbers are hard to compare for a couple of reasons.

So I broke it down year by year. I calculated the total number of dropbacks per season as # of passing attempts + # of sacks, tallied all that up and then got an overall percentage of dropbacks that ended in sacks. I didn't have an easy way to add scrambles into that.

Carr got sacked on 11.3% of his dropbacks and Watson got sacked on 9.0% of his. Even though Carr played more games, Watson dropped back more. Watson was pretty consistently sacked at around 8% of his dropbacks, but his second year was bad and he got sacked on 10.9% of those. Carr, otoh, had two years (1st and 4th) where he was sacked on 14.6% and 13.8% of his dropbacks, but he had one year where he was only sacked on 4.8% of his dropbacks (but he didn't throw a lot of passes that year.) That one year of not getting sacked much offset his other 3 years where he was getting sacked at a rate from 3 to almost 5 times a game.

I'm not drawing any conclusions from these numbers. I'm just throwing them out there.

My suspicion was that Watson would have done better in an offense like I suspect Slowick is going to install. I think one of Watson's problems was reading the defenses, identifying blitzes, and making the line calls to properly set the blocking. I also think it's interesting that his sack percentage was 10.5% with the Browns, but that could easily just him being rusty.

NOTE: I forgot to add that over those 4 years, Carr got sacked at a rate of 3.5 times per game and Watson got sacked at a rate of 3.2 times per game.


Excellent. Thank you for diving deeper.
 
I worked the night shift when the Texans first season started. I'd get home around 8am, argue with the ex and be in bed by 10a. I'd wake up to watch the team at 12p in a dis-chanted delirium.

I remember the first season and the chargers game. I think it was game 2. I have never seen a qb beat into oblivion like that before then or since.

No one can tell me dws line was worse. They beat the hell outta DC that day and it's a miracle he could still stand afterward.
 
Oijiiiuioii

You don’t have to spend 12 to get him a supporting cast. We have 12 picks. Like I said I don’t understand why anyone would take a less talented p,Ayer high in the draft on a team that is starving for talent. I guess you guys are looking at instant gratification and I’m in, add as much talent as possible and figure it out mode.

Ive gone back and forth on Witherspoon and Gonzales. I love both of them. Their in a class of their own and there is a huge difference in either of them and the CBS you can get “later in the draft”. The only other CB close to them is DJ Turner. I’m sure Lucky will have something to say about that. He’s the most twitchy player in this draft. I thought he was really small and that’s why he wasn’t getting much attention from the draft pundits. Then he blew away the combine. I look at it like this, add another great CB and have a great young secondary (Remember this is a passing league) or reach for a WR.

I like a lot of the WRs predicted to go in the later rounds. Perry, Mims, Mingo, Reed off the top of my head.

I agree about Center. There’s many ways to go there as well. #33 JMS is my favorite Pick in most of my mocks.
Julius Brents, Tyrique Stevenson and Emmanuel Forbes are really good corners.

There is no comparison to Johnston. Hyatt really good and very fast but not the build. Rashee Rice really good and has build but not the speed. I want all three.
 
I'm in no way a draftnick but I feel very confident in saying if Bijan is there at 12, he's easily BPA regardless of how 1-11 shakes out

Anyone?

I agree that Bijan at 12 in all imaginable likelihood is the BPA at 12. That's not really the argument though, imo, enough to make him the pick there.

BPA vs need is the usual argument. And I'd also agree that this team needs as much talent and should be shooting for BPA as often as possible. The problem is that RB is really a whole other animal nowadays. And 100% yes, Robinson can do some more things than than the classic workhorse RB. Receiving out of the backfield, lining up out wide, etc. Nonetheless there's a reason the position has been devalued in recent years. It just takes a toll. BPA vs RB really amounts to BPA vs luxury anymore, and we're at least a year or two away from considering a luxury pick at 12 or better.

I firmly believe Bijan could immediately make the offense better. Unquestionably. The problem rears it's head at the crossroads of where the team as a whole becomes truly contender worthy versus when the decision has to be made on whether to give, and how much the cost, him a second contract. We're talking 4-ish years, at best, before deciding to dump loads of money into a rapidly depreciating asset, which should coincide with just the time the team would hopefully be hitting it's full stride as an AFC standout.

Should they take a QB at 2 like most assume, and should that QB be truly the one, then we're hoping in his year two that we can really push not just the AFC south but the AFC playoffs for everything their worth. That would be fun, of course. Now enter that year 3, and assuming Robinson has been balling out then the contract chatter will already be running high - alongside that of his QB draft classmate. And alongside financially that of whatever 'final' pieces may be in consideration. Given the nature of the position I wonder who the oddman out could be? Dallas had this exact same dilemma. That didn't look fun, and I don't envy having what was a seemingly inevitable outcome.

Bijan is a rare breed for sure. But so seemed Christian McCaffrey. So seemed Saquon Barkley. So seemed Dalvin Cook. These guys do happen. What also happens is Nick Chubb, Miles Sanders, Aaron Jones, Kenneth Walker, Joe Mixon, and Jonathan Taylor. Solid as f*ck dudes you can get later.

And funny enough at the end of the day... not a single one have won a SB.
 
I'm in no way a draftnick but I feel very confident in saying if Bijan is there at 12, he's easily BPA regardless of how 1-11 shakes out

Anyone?
If he’s there at 12 and You really want to give your new young star QB weapons how do you pass up the best offensive weapon in the draft. He would add more to this offense than the two best WRs in this draft. I don’t know how you pass him up other than wanting to address defense an elite prospect.
 
I worked the night shift when the Texans first season started. I'd get home around 8am, argue with the ex and be in bed by 10a. I'd wake up to watch the team at 12p in a dis-chanted delirium.

I remember the first season and the chargers game. I think it was game 2. I have never seen a qb beat into oblivion like that before then or since.

No one can tell me dws line was worse. They beat the hell outta DC that day and it's a miracle he could still stand afterward.
Watson line was just as bad as Carr line. The huge difference is Watson could escape whereas Carr would fold up like a cheap suit. I mean he broke Carr record of being sacked the most in a season. Imo, they have spent enough high resources on the oline. 3 1st rd picks, traded for another oline player. Texans don't have a top 50 wr on the roster. No speed, no 1 v 1 beaters.
 
I'm not looking into games missed by injury but it appears in a head to head comparison your wrong. Do YOU truly remember and fathom how bad Carr's line really was?

I'm using a 4 year sample size based on Watson's tenure here and it is as follows:

Watson total sacks (17 through 20) = 174

Carr total sacks (02 through 05) = 208

Joe Burrow's sample size is only 3 years in the league for comparison. 20 through 22. His sack total stands at 124. He'd have to be sacked 84 times this year to equal Carr.

Please don't mistake this post as a Carr apology thread. It's not. These are the actual stats and your post is clearly wrong. Why should I take the rest of your opinions at face value?

The only chance Carr's season "sacked" record has at being broken is to extend the regular season and I don't think 17 games is enough. Remember, David Carr is not only #1 on that list.. He's also #3. In NFL history he made the top 3 list twice for most sacks taken in a season. The guy wasn't the guy, but you can't deny.. he could take a hit. That first year was a QB snuff film.
 
Watson line was just as bad as Carr line. The huge difference is Watson could escape whereas Carr would fold up like a cheap suit. I mean he broke Carr record of being sacked the most in a season. Imo, they have spent enough high resources on the oline. 3 1st rd picks, traded for another oline player. Texans don't have a top 50 wr on the roster. No speed, no 1 v 1 beaters.

When?
 
How many of those were his own creation by running out of bounds behind the los?

Are you referring to Carr or Watson? While they did it in different ways.. both ate a bunch of unnecessary/self inflicted sacks. I think they more than cancel each other out there. Watson's self sacks were just more entertaining, because you had hope he would pull something out of his ass (boy we couldn't of been any more wrong about that).

All in all, Watson had a much better line during his time here. Houston didn't get a real NFL line until Kubiak and Gibbs got here.
 
Look at how easy the game of football is to Bijan Robinson. Do I need to use a burst of speed? OK. How about I make this spin move? Or this 90 degree cut? Oh, I need to highpoint this ball and make a fingertip catch? No big deal.

 
Back
Top