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Fire Lovie Smith!
- Thread starter Mangler
- Start date
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BullRushTX
To'oTo'o A'go-go
I thought Lovie might be a good bridge coach to bring professionalism into the building and start righting the ship. I wasn't expecting playoffs, but getting the team to 6-11 or 7-10 territory.
As poor on talent as the team is, it's got more talent on the roster this year compared to last and it's looking like they'll be lucky to end the season with two wins. They seem to regress on a weekly basis and it looks like the team has given up.
I'm okay watching a team take losses if they're fighting every step of the way. This team doesn't fight. Lovie and Pep have to go. Will the front office hire a competent staff? History says no. But we can hope.
As poor on talent as the team is, it's got more talent on the roster this year compared to last and it's looking like they'll be lucky to end the season with two wins. They seem to regress on a weekly basis and it looks like the team has given up.
I'm okay watching a team take losses if they're fighting every step of the way. This team doesn't fight. Lovie and Pep have to go. Will the front office hire a competent staff? History says no. But we can hope.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I wasn’t even expecting that much but I did hope to see players improving over the course of the season to start showing some sort of foundation forming. Not really seeing that with anybody with the exception of Pierce.
michaelm
vox nihili
When I say give them whatever it takes, I'm assuming it wouldn't take a huge amount, and certainly no first round pick.
He's not currently bringing them any value so I feel like he can be bought out at a reasonable price.
Question for anyone who would know, if Payton was offered the GM position (along with HC), can the Saints block that move since it's a promotion and not lateral?
I didn’t really care about wins & losses. Just wanted to get off the bottom of every statistical metric
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Look at SF post Harbaugh. They went through something similar and got rid of everyone and started over with the players left. Its too early to say its the 2nd best trade in nfl history. Remember what the Rams got for RG3? How did that turn out? Remember Washington got the Saints entire draft and half the next years draft, how did that work out for the Commanders? Time will tell. You keep making excuse for Caserio in terms of coaching hires, but Gannon didn't want to come here because of Esterbe and Caserio trying to dictate his staff. That's what Caserio did to Culley and if Lovie didn't have the team over a barrell
Correction
He got the 2nd most in draft capital in NFL history. What Caserio does with the draft capital will decide Caserio's fate. He should be able to draft the picks he traded for. IMHO Do you not think this? Also I think things are looking up because I liked Caserio's last draft alot, even though like I've said before that I would've gone all in on drafting the trenches in the rds 1-2.
Once again , the McNair's have always made the HC hires. Some say Caserio should be able to talk the McNair's into hiring his guy. I guess y'all are expecting Caserio to do something no other GM has been able to do, (Talk the McNair's into hiring the GM's guy) unfortunately I expect this trend to continue.
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It's possible, but there would probably be a bidding war for Payton's services. Several teams would be interested in him.
Toro Bravo
Rookie
While I believe Sean Payton would bring immediate and temporary success and credibility to this organization, it seems to me that hiring him as both HC and GM would put us right back in the hole we have been digging out of for 3 years. Without checks and balances in any organization (business, government, sports) you are headed for disaster. It's clear that Cal is easily influenced by strong personalities and Payton is very strong. Do you really trust Cal to tell Payton no?
If we clean house I would prefer starting with a strong GM who chooses his own coach, and let the coach pick his assistance. Enough of this micro-management!
If we clean house I would prefer starting with a strong GM who chooses his own coach, and let the coach pick his assistance. Enough of this micro-management!
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I’m personally shocked the McNairs branched out from Shanahan tree to the Bellichick shrub that has produced negative results time after time while two rookie head coaches Salah & McDonald, who turned around their programs in one year, were available.
This isn’t on Lovie (he is who we though he was) but on Cal and is fixation with the Patriot way.
This isn’t on Lovie (he is who we though he was) but on Cal and is fixation with the Patriot way.
What is the Patriot way?
I don't think that Caserio has been here long enough to implement the Patriot way. ( Whatever that is)
Caserio didn't pick Lovie and other than McDaniel there was nobody Cal was going to hire. After Flores Cal wasn't going to hire anybody but a minority HC. Of course Cal did the lazy sloth like thing and instead of hiring any number of qualified minority candidates , Cal took the easy way out and promoted from within.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lovie had been here & had seen 1st hand the dysfunction going on in the org & that did have some value..... as opposed to bringing in someone from the outside who may not have known what they were getting into. That combined with the fact that he had experience as a HC in the league and that he commanded respect around it and amongst the players already in the locker room ....then the minority HC thing..........I won't bash Cal/Janice for how they went about this hire b/c at the time it made some level of sense...as opposed to the McCown hire which made no sense on any level.
But i think where we are now...with this team having made no advances in any facet of competitiveness whatsoever this year, Lovie getting snippy with the media b/c they're getting in his ass behind the team's performance........ & us knowing for sure now that we're most likely going to be drafting a qb with 1 of our top picks.....He & Pep have gotta go....At a minimum, we need to bring in a HC that will be more progressive and creative with his offense...a guy that will mold the offense around what our qb does best....which is something that we haven't had in a HC..ever..
ben.aires.smith
Rookie
Excellent post. Rec'd.
Number19
Hall of Fame
If we brought in a new HC and if he was an offensive coach, could Pep be retained? Of course the new coach may want a different choice.
I just recall that Pep had strong support several years ago; even comment he was on track as a HC. And now we have this 180 flip.
Just curious, what is the sentiment now for Pep being considered for HC.
ben.aires.smith
Rookie
Go to throw out a name that I think the Texans should consider: Detroit OC Ben Johnson. He's opening up a lot of eyes with his scheming the offense in Detroit. He's an innovative offensive mind, young (36), getting good results. He's getting really strong results on a predominently young team. And his next HC gig would be his first, so I think there's a strong chance he would jump at the opportunity to coach the Texans will a new QB coming in.
Won't be long before Johnson is the HC somewhere. I put him very much in the Brian Daboll category in terms of strong offensive mind.
Won't be long before Johnson is the HC somewhere. I put him very much in the Brian Daboll category in terms of strong offensive mind.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Pep got credit for "developing" Luck...as the OC & then later "developing" Herbert...as the QB coach. not sure how much credit he deserves in either case, but that's what he's been coasting on for the last 4-5 years of his career. In both instances his name was being thrown in for HC positions before the bottoms fell out...fired in Indy after poor offensive showings for at least 1 year..& then when Lynn got canned in SD, Pep got canned too. I think the consensus with him seems to be that he's never quite gotten a "legitimate" shot where ever he's gone...even though he's been given coordinator and assistant HC gigs at numerous places.
Buying into the hype that he had some hand in developing Luck and Herbert, i thought it was a good look for Lovie & the Texans to bring him in to help Mills. But looking at it now, it doesn't look like he really helped him. My thoughts on him now are that he's just a guy that's not really a leader...he's a good soldier for the guys he's working under. No real style or sense of creativity/progessiveness in his playcalling.......which is the thing that sets the best at it apart. He's gonna run the offense as bland or reckless as you want him to...& we know Lovie's preference.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Speaking of Brian Daboll...same deal with Ken Dorsey in Buffalo who took over OC duties when Daboll left...another good young candidate...Joe Brady's also still out there.
ben.aires.smith
Rookie
Exactly. Team needs to veer away from yesterday coaches/systems and into guys who innovate in today's NFL: Sirianni, Daboll, Dorsey and Johnson. Those types of guys. Dorsey would be a good selection as well. Johnson would be amazing and I trust him to work with a young incoming QB and/or Mills and fix the offense.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
C’mon Steel it started with O’Brian.
michaelm
vox nihili
I don't want anyone to tell Payton no. I want someone, anyone to tell Cal no.
I trust Payton over Cal 100%, in 100% of situations.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
There’s certain decisions that coaches make that make me lose faith in their ability to lead a team or make sound decisions.
With OB the whole Hoyer/Mallet thing made me lose faith in him as a coach. I would have fired him after year 2 based on decisions he had made up until that point.
With Lovie, I didn’t like the fact that he got fired from a non powerhouse college. Illinois of all places. That’s a school where he should have been coaching at for as long as he wanted. I was told at the time that didn’t matter…yeah ok.
But the thing that really put a sour taste in my mouth…I’m hyped for the season…ready to get back into this team…trying to learn guys names on the roster again…really digging in…
And in the first game of the season against a division rival, this mf plays for a tie. I tried to be level headed about it at the time, but deep down inside I felt it was a chicken **** move.
It sent the wrong message to the players AND the fan base. It set the tone for the season.Texans are guppies in a pool of sharks and Lovie reinforced that by not challenging a tuna.
And now the season has gone how it’s gone…..fire his ass. Take Casio Watch with him too.
Either hire someone who has an established track record of high level success as a head coach in the nfl. Or a young innovative coach who is a hot name.
With OB the whole Hoyer/Mallet thing made me lose faith in him as a coach. I would have fired him after year 2 based on decisions he had made up until that point.
With Lovie, I didn’t like the fact that he got fired from a non powerhouse college. Illinois of all places. That’s a school where he should have been coaching at for as long as he wanted. I was told at the time that didn’t matter…yeah ok.
But the thing that really put a sour taste in my mouth…I’m hyped for the season…ready to get back into this team…trying to learn guys names on the roster again…really digging in…
And in the first game of the season against a division rival, this mf plays for a tie. I tried to be level headed about it at the time, but deep down inside I felt it was a chicken **** move.
It sent the wrong message to the players AND the fan base. It set the tone for the season.Texans are guppies in a pool of sharks and Lovie reinforced that by not challenging a tuna.
And now the season has gone how it’s gone…..fire his ass. Take Casio Watch with him too.
Either hire someone who has an established track record of high level success as a head coach in the nfl. Or a young innovative coach who is a hot name.
I will get into Janice/Cal's azz because they hired Caserio to do a job and they're putting restrictions on the job he's trying to do. How about this Cal just put all of the politics aside and hire the best candidate. I feel like Cal bailed the NFL out of a tough spot and what did God'ell do to repay the favor? Make sure Derrick's 1st game back is at NRG.
You hire the greatest coach of all time and give him the greatest QB of all time. The End.
Unfortunately, fools are out there trying to emulate whatever they perceive as the so-called "Patriot way" by hiring people from that organization. So far, the failure rate has been 100%. . .not that Cal would notice.
Caserio, due to the obvious owner-imposed limitations in Houston, will be just another shriveled branch of the Belichick tree in the end.
What started I could make a case the decline of this franchise directly started when RS wasted two 1st rd picks on a pervert.
Started a few years before that
Texian
Hall of Fame
The Patriot Way is the Jimmy Johnson Way. Belichick has been to Keys many times spending many hours on Johnson's 3 Rings fishing boat, seeking the tutelage of Jimmy Johnson. The two are close and have a special relationship.
The one common denominator the two share in building their respective dynasties is they both traded for a lot more and better draft picks than they started with. Belichick learned this art from Johnson. Caserio did not learn this from Belichick. On the contrary, Caserio has always ended up with fewer draft picks and less value than he starts with. Technically Caserio's performance has been the opposite of Johnson and Belichick's keys to success.
You can read all about accumulating draft picks and value if you choose:
I believe Johnson also traded up some. I also believe he traded picks for players. Haley comes to mind. Also signed some guys in FA like Novacek.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Yes he did, usually after accumulating additional valued draft picks. For example, he used a 1st RD to draft Steve Walsh. Then traded Walsh for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd RD. With the third draft choice the Cowboys selected (#70-Erik Williams), the other two picks (#14-Leonard Russell and #52-Patrick Rowe) were traded to the New England Patriots as a package to move up to the number one overall draft choice to select Russell Maryland. And of course there was the Herschel Walker trade and there was a lot of wheeling and dealing, moving up and moving down with that haul.
Belichick was notorious for trading back in the draft and picking up extra armfuls of picks in many drafts.
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Texian
Hall of Fame
It started when Bob McNair fired Kubiak for not playing Case Keenum. What Bob McNair should have done is say to Kubiak our QB Schaub is broken, you need to go find another QB like you did when you found Schaub. Kubiak would not have had a problem with that because Gary was hesitant about signing Schaub to a long-term extension that McNair insisted on the Texans doing. That was a 4 year $62MM extension the year before Schaub developed pick six itus.
Gary should have listened to his boss and things might have been different.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Really wanted to elevate Kyle Shananon to head coach and reassign Gary or let him walk. The offense never looked so potent with him as OC. Destined for great things in a more balanced run/passing attack. Reason why my first choice for HC last year was Mike McDaniel who was here with Kyle 2006-2008. McNairs choice of trees bears the wrong kind of fruit.
Shanahan should have been hired as HC 1/01/2014
Hard to say. Remember Vrabel was hired as HC after another one of our historically bad defensive seasons
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
I wonder if Gary Kubiak couldn't be hired into some kind of advisor role to help build the next coaching staff. Perhaps doing so would also entice some of the Shanahan/Kubiak tree to come to Houston. Let's not go the Korn Fery route this time, lets place Kubiak in that role.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Brady is actually with Buffalo
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I couldn’t stand the GK at the end of his Texans run. Now I’d probably let out a loud “fxxk yeah!” If they brought him back in some capacity.
In hindsight he’d have probably eventually figured it out here once they got past the Schaub era.
Scooter
Funky
This argument sounds familiar. A coach famous for his offense and QB development, thinks it's better to ride out the season than ruin next season's starter. Owner smashed next season's starter into a fail situation. What Bob McNair should've done ... is nothing. He should've done nothing the year before as well, but 10+ wins are obviously due to his epic leadership.
Texian
Hall of Fame
When asked, Kubiak's version is the reason he pulled Keenum in the 2nd half of the Jags game and put in Schaub is that he thought Schaub gave the team the better chance to win because Schaub knew the entire offense. At the time Keenum only knew half the playbook and that half wasn't working in the first half. Bob McNair thought the answer was to shoot himself in the foot.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Shows just how difficult it is to start fresh without history, and battle tested leadership. My guess is, Bob & Cal were not used to losing in anything so figured their superior upbringing and business acumen would eventually prevail. So they dug in, deeper and deeper they went. What’s the big deal, franchise value was still going up in the Billions, that’s a win right 
Gotta follow the bosses instructions.
The last sentence is the only thing that the McNair's have ever cared about.Shows just how difficult it is to start fresh without history, and battle tested leadership. My guess is, Bob & Cal were not used to losing in anything so figured their superior upbringing and business acumen would eventually prevail. So they dug in, deeper and deeper they went. What’s the big deal, franchise value was still going up in the Billions, that’s a win right
austins23
Hall of Fame
Yes, yes, and yes! I screamed this at the TV and anyone within earshot the second it happened. This team wasn’t supposed to do squat this year and that was probably one of the top two games they played all year. And Lovie turtles and plays for a tie! It was crap when it happened and it is now a big rotten turd!!
vtech9
All Pro
At the time, I thought kicking the FG was the right thing to do, and I still think that way. Lovie and Pep had already given up on trying to win by that point. My problem was the 3rd down play leading up to the FG. That was the play that told me they didn't want to win. That was the point that I started questioning whether Lovie was a good choice as the HC. I was already leery of Pep when I kept hearing how Pep was working with Mills on check downs, and that was all Mills seemed to be doing in training camp. When the games started, and that's all Mills seemed to do, it made me question Pep more. Pep's playcalling the rest of the season has made it obvious that he needs to go.
Everyone involved were stupid for not picking up the phone and at least asking Peyton Manning to visit. You don't hesitate when a HoF QB, arguably one of the GOATS, has your team listed as no. 1 on his list to play for. The Broncos were not scared of his injury. They went for it and were greatly rewarded for their decision.
The McNairs loyalty to mediocrity and lack of bold vision will most likely keep this team from ever achieving anything great. As Frank Zappa once said, "without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible". The McNairs will always hold the status quo position until it eventually threatens their revenue streams, and then they make the same mistakes over again.
austins23
Hall of Fame
I completely agree!
Texian
Hall of Fame
I have always argued the Houston Texan's monopoly on mediocrity is directly related to Kirby Boardroom Round table philosophy.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Dang he hasn’t been fired yet?
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