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WK1: Colts at Texan Gameday & Discussion

steelbtexan said:
Agreed,

Gotta get in better shape.
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Seeing the snap counts it was odd to see KGH/Kirksey play 100% of the snaps but the next LB had 22 snaps (KPL). If they aren’t gonna rotate Hewitt/Reeves-Maybin or Cashman to give those 2 LBs a breather then they should’ve activated Thomas Booker to add to the DL rotation.

Of course they are going to be tired playing 92 snaps. There is little if any dropoff between the backup LBs. No coincidence Taylor started ripping off 10+ yard gains when KGH/Kirksey both have played 70+ snaps.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
This forum is always very divided when it comes to those that like a quarterback starting on our team and those that don't.
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To me it’s not even about Davis Mills. I want this team to be farther along in its rebuild before we get too concerned about the QB.

All I want for now is a placeholder that doesn’t give away games. I want to feel better about the coaches than I do now. I want to feel better about the OL & DL than I do now. Before I’m worried about a QB better than Davis Mills.
 
JB said:
I never said he was playing at a mvp level. Did he win a mvp or not? Is he better than what they had last year or not?
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We don't know. Pre injury, Wentz was the mvp of the nfl. I just watched the Commanders vs Jags and it was good Wentz,bad Wentz, but he made some absolutely great throws. I don't think its an upgrade, I think something with Wentz and the locker room doesn't vibe.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
One thing very obvious to me was that beginning in the 2nd half, Lovie played a bend don't break defense, and the offense played conservative. The play calling was strickly don't play to win, play not to lose. We usually see this in old-timer HCs, seldom in the new breed. I hope that Lovie gets a good kick in the pants by all who can make a difference, This team should always be playing only to win.....................whether they win or lose. .A tie or a loss or a win is a ultimately just a "loss" if your only goal is to play not to lose.
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Lovie gonna be Lovie
 
dream_team said:
I'm getting tired of listening to the radio today and everyone just wants to complain about the PUNT and how Lovie cost them a victory. That's not why this team didn't win...

The last SIX offensive drives by the Texans gained a TOTAL of 64 yards!!! That's it! Not to mention, TWO of those drives started at the FORTY!!! Even if they don't score. Simply not turning the ball over, or eating 2 more minutes of clock, would have been enough to win that game. That to me is the travesty.
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Of course it's not THE reason they didn't win. It's just that at particular point in the game, he didn't even give them a chance to try and win. Of course there are plays throughout the game that contributed. It was 25 yards total offense in their last 6 possessions, not 64, but that certainly didn't help any. But at the end, they still had a chance, even if it was a sliver of a chance, and he decided to punt that chance away.

Nobody on the planet expected them to win the game. Very few on the planet expects them to win more than 4 or 5 for the season, and you had a chance against the team favored to win the division. Nothing to lose there. Play like you're trying to win, trying to change the losing culture. Don't put your tail between your legs and settle for a freaking tie. Very disappointed to see that coming from a HC with a ton of experience.
 
steelbtexan said:
I like Lovie and he's perfect for the rebuild. Not so much for winning championships.
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I like Lovie, but aside from the qb, the coach is the most important person in a rebuild. Lovie is stuck in the past way of thinking. Everyone likes Lovie, he's a likeable guy. We do know in Houston, you keep losing and those seats get empty. I'm disappointed after watching the condensed version of why Burkhead got soo much run vs Pierce.
 
leebigeztx said:
I like Lovie, but aside from the qb, the coach is the most important person in a rebuild. Lovie is stuck in the past way of thinking. Everyone likes Lovie, he's a likeable guy. We do know in Houston, you keep losing and those seats get empty. I'm disappointed after watching the condensed version of why Burkhead got soo much run vs Pierce.
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Lovie knows talent particularly on the defensive side of the ball and OL play. Perfect for a rebuild, but I dont expect him to last more than 3-4 seasons.
 
steelbtexan said:
Lovie knows talent particularly on the defensive side of the ball and OL play. Perfect for a rebuild, but I dont expect him to last more than 3-4 seasons.
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Defense yes, ol ,not so sure. Those Bears teams weren't very good at oline. They were middle of the pack. Defensively, I've seen him play more than just cover 2 shell which is good. Don't know why they like KGH and Kirksey soo much, but I guess.
 
Speedy said:
Because he's their HC and it's the same team who rolled up a 20-3 lead.
Even if he doesn't really believe they can do it, it's better than flat out telling them they can't by punting.
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Except all the players they asked about it said they agreed with the call. Maybe they are just towing the line or maybe they realized the defense was gassed and the offense was getting stomped. I guess it comes down to a question of which is worst for team morale, to lose after leading the entire game or to end with a tie.
 
thunderkyss said:
To me it’s not even about Davis Mills. I want this team to be farther along in its rebuild before we get too concerned about the QB.

All I want for now is a placeholder that doesn’t give away games. I want to feel better about the coaches than I do now. I want to feel better about the OL & DL than I do now. Before I’m worried about a QB better than Davis Mills.
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Well said, people keep forgetting Mills was a third round pick so we haven’t dumped much draft capital in him and last years QB class was one of the worst I’ve ever seen. It was so bad people actually have said if Mills had waited one more year he would have been the top QB in that class.

So getting a QB last year would have been a waste and bringing in a one year vet for a truck ton of money is 99 out of 100 times a waste.

Honestly I don’t care if Mills is a starter or not, he’s good enough to be a back up, which is what you mostly expect from 3rd round QBs, and if he really is that bad well then next year we will be in a great position to draft in a much stronger class.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
As Billy Ocean cowrote and performed...When The Going Gets Tough, The Tough Get Going!

Y'all want an example of a team that is mentally and physically tough? Watch highlights of the Philadelphia Eagles vs Detroit Lions game. The Lions lost but the game was close when they very easily could have given up and got blown out. We could have used their spirit when we were faced with adversity! Especially our offense!
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It’s the Eagles and Lions, neither of those teams are any good. The Colts are actually decent and are projected to win the division. Not saying much because the AFCS sucks again but still they are better than Eagles or Lions.
 
steelbtexan said:
Lovie knows talent particularly on the defensive side of the ball and OL play. Perfect for a rebuild, but I dont expect him to last more than 3-4 seasons.
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Few coaches do last more than 3-4 seasons unless they start going to the playoffs, or work for a Jerry Jones. Honestly I give him this season to rebuild and next season to show improvement. After that those Cleveland picks run out andI have a feeling Caserio’s willingness to say “its a rebuild” will run out with them.
 
maverick512000 said:
Well said, people keep forgetting Mills was a third round pick so we haven’t dumped much draft capital in him and last years QB class was one of the worst I’ve ever seen. It was so bad people actually have said if Mills had waited one more year he would have been the top QB in that class.

So getting a QB last year would have been a waste and bringing in a one year vet for a truck ton of money is 99 out of 100 times a waste.

Honestly I don’t care if Mills is a starter or not, he’s good enough to be a back up, which is what you mostly expect from 3rd round QBs, and if he really is that bad well then next year we will be in a great position to draft in a much stronger class.
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I’ve said it here a thousand times and it just doesn’t matter. Folks can’t get it through their thick head that in the situation HOU was in, Mills was a perfect fit as a 3rd round pick. If he lights it up as the season goes on, great, and if not who cares HOU has a ton of draft capital and a deep draft, loaded at QB the next 2 drafts.
Just let it happen, folks.
 
leebigeztx said:
Defense yes, ol ,not so sure. Those Bears teams weren't very good at oline. They were middle of the pack. Defensively, I've seen him play more than just cover 2 shell which is good. Don't know why they like KGH and Kirksey soo much, but I guess.
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I agree they weren’t great lines but Bears wouldn’t know a good QB if one hit them in the nuts with a football. A great line can make a decent QB look good, looking at you Dak, but it can’t really make a bad QB look decent. They still have to be able to hit a target. I mean Jay Cutler holds most of their franchise records for Heavens sake.
 
maverick512000 said:
I agree they weren’t great lines but Bears wouldn’t know a good QB if one hit them in the nuts with a football. A great line can make a decent QB look good, looking at you Dak, but it can’t really make a bad QB look decent. They still have to be able to hit a target. I mean Jay Cutler holds most of their franchise records for Heavens sake.
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And they carried Rex Grossman to the SB
 
TheRealJoker said:
Seeing the snap counts it was odd to see KGH/Kirksey play 100% of the snaps but the next LB had 22 snaps (KPL). If they aren’t gonna rotate Hewitt/Reeves-Maybin or Cashman to give those 2 LBs a breather then they should’ve activated Thomas Booker to add to the DL rotation.

Of course they are going to be tired playing 92 snaps. There is little if any dropoff between the backup LBs. No coincidence Taylor started ripping off 10+ yard gains when KGH/Kirksey both have played 70+ snaps.
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I don't think the Texans have a single lb who could start on a playoff caliber team in the nfl
 
Jack Burton said:
I’ve said it here a thousand times and it just doesn’t matter. Folks can’t get it through their thick head that in the situation HOU was in, Mills was a perfect fit as a 3rd round pick. If he lights it up as the season goes on, great, and if not who cares HOU has a ton of draft capital and a deep draft, loaded at QB the next 2 drafts.
Just let it happen, folks.
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They said the Lawrence draft was deep. They also said 2018 was a great qb draft. A deep qb draft means nothing. It has more to do with picking,and developing the right one.
 
steelbtexan said:
Definitely a big weakness.

I'm hoping Harris is the real deal, Caserio signs a playmaking LB in FA and Caserio can find a playmaking Ryans type LB at the top of the 2nd rd.
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I wouldn't sign anyone until I was close. There are tons of fast playmaking lbs in the draft. They just need to stop with the rehashes and rebuild with young players. The Lions found a lb in the 5th rd and is starting knocking heads off. He's smallish, but a hawk.
 
leebigeztx said:
I wouldn't sign anyone until I was close. There are tons of fast playmaking lbs in the draft. They just need to stop with the rehashes and rebuild with young players. The Lions found a lb in the 5th rd and is starting knocking heads off. He's smallish, but a hawk.
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I'm talking about getting a young stud LB that;s coming off of his 1st contract. a Devin Bush type LB.
 
leebigeztx said:
They said the Lawrence draft was deep. They also said 2018 was a great qb draft. A deep qb draft means nothing. It has more to do with picking,and developing the right one.
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And they said 2017 was a very weak class with no 1st round worthy QB's
 
Jack Burton said:
Do you think Caserio and Pep can pick and develop the right one?
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1st time for everything. As long as they have an open mind and stop trying to be like NE. Your OC and Qb coach should be watching all those guys coming out this year. I remember when Andy said he was watching Kevin Kolb and was intrigued just watching games from Saturday. Was Kolb a great pick? Don't know about that, but because they developed him, they turned him into a high draft pick and a player.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm talking about getting a young stud LB that;s coming off of his 1st contract. a Devin Bush type LB.
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Typically, if youre a bad team, you will overpay for that guy if he's already on a good team. He is an impact player and if Lovie pegs himas a next level type of player, then so be it. I really like him alot.
 
maverick512000 said:
Except all the players they asked about it said they agreed with the call. Maybe they are just towing the line or maybe they realized the defense was gassed and the offense was getting stomped. I guess it comes down to a question of which is worst for team morale, to lose after leading the entire game or to end with a tie.
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I heard the player interviews and yeah, they said they agreed, but the body language I took from several players didn't vibe with what was coming out of their mouths. To me some of those players seemed to feel like it was a loss. And what else are they going to say? Call coach out and your snaps decrease next week.
 
JB said:
And they said 2017 was a very weak class with no 1st round worthy QB's
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Yep and that's why I said all you need is 1. Its hard, real hard. I never thought Allen would turn into what he is. I watched that guy at the sr bowl practice skipping balls. Physically, the talent was there, but even after year 2, there were huge holes, but Daboll put that work in with him and still let him use his natural ability. Big Ben nor Flacco were rated that high when the season started, but both proved to be bigger than the league they came from. Got to have that open mind.
 
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leebigeztx said:
Yep and that's why I said all you need is 1. Its hard, real hard. I never thought Allen would turn into what he is. I watched that guy at the sr bowl practice skipping balls. Physically, the talent was there, but even after year 2, there were huge holes, but Daboll put that work in with him and still let him use his natural ability. Big Ben nor Flacco were rated that high when the season started, but both proved to be bigger than the league they came from. Got to have that open mind.
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My respect for Jim Miller really grew after he called Allen as the best QB in the draft. I thought he would be a Trubiski type QB.
 
Speedy said:
I heard the player interviews and yeah, they said they agreed, but the body language I took from several players didn't vibe with what was coming out of their mouths. To me some of those players seemed to feel like it was a loss. And what else are they going to say? Call coach out and your snaps decrease next week.
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I don’t claim to be an expert on body language but the impression I got was more “Why are these idiots asking me stupid questions?” I’m sure some do wish they had gone for it, you’ll never find anything all 50+ guys agree on, but fact is it wasn’t their call and honestly with this team of rookies and career backups I’m not sure any of them are qualified to make the call.
 
leebigeztx said:
They said the Lawrence draft was deep. They also said 2018 was a great qb draft. A deep qb draft means nothing. It has more to do with picking,and developing the right one.
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This is true but still when you have a class like last year that’s legendary levels of developing.
 
maverick512000 said:
It’s the Eagles and Lions, neither of those teams are any good. The Colts are actually decent and are projected to win the division. Not saying much because the AFCS sucks again but still they are better than Eagles or Lions.
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I agree that neither Eagles or Lions is expected to do much. However there still is something to be said about a team that does not fall apart after suffering some adversity.The Lions did not get down for long or quit when they were facing a large deficit.

Everybody points to how tired our team was but I find it funny that we conveniently got tired after the sack of Davis Mills and his turnover. I think our tie was due to a combination of being outcoached late and a lack of intenstinal fortitude.

We were lucky we had a solid lead for much of the game anyway. It would have been nice if we could have rebounded from the loss of momentum and somehow beat the Colts. I know we won't be in a position to win many games this season but I would hope that when we are, we rise up when there is a momentum shift against us and we overcome it. We need to show some heart. Even when we are tired we should still show an ability to step up and over come it. Our defense played solid throughout the game but Davis Mills and the offense folded like cheap lawn chairs.
 
maverick512000 said:
I don’t claim to be an expert on body language but the impression I got was more “Why are these idiots asking me stupid questions?” I’m sure some do wish they had gone for it, you’ll never find anything all 50+ guys agree on, but fact is it wasn’t their call and honestly with this team of rookies and career backups I’m not sure any of them are qualified to make the call.
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I just know if it was me, I'd want a chance to try and win it, even if we're the ones who fucked it up for a quarter plus to get in that situation in the first place. If there's still a chance, how do you not take that chance? To have the HC say, nah, that's enough, we're going home with a draw, I'd be like WTF? Maybe that's just me.

Lovie Smith said:
"Defensively, we weren't really stopping them an awful lot there at the end." "We thought about it. I knew if we didn't get it, they had time, and it's not like we were playing our best defense then."
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Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence there coach.

Just didn't like the way any of it went down. Getting in that position in the 1st place, the personnel and play call on 3rd down, the decision to settle for a tie, and Lovie just flat out saying they couldn't stop anybody anyway. Just a bad sequence of events.

Don't know how you teach a winning culture when it goes down like that. Just seems to me the 1st step is to do everything necessary to try and win when there's still a chance to do so, and not punt that opportunity away.
 
thunderkyss said:
I want to feel better about the coaches than I do now. I want to feel better about the OL & DL than I do now. Before I’m worried about a QB better than Davis Mills.
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I can't argue with this. I was simply pointing out that we often go through a big divide when it comes to quarterbacks. I am okay with being critical with any quarterbacks but I do think we sometimes overanalyze quarterbacks before they really get a chance to settle in and prove any of us right or wrong. No it is not just quarterbacks but it seems our most passionate arguments revolve around them.
 
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The tide in this game went over to the Colts when the coaches decided it was time for Burkhead to be the bell-cow and run time off the clock once they were up by 17 in the 3rd quarter. This put too much pressure on the defense to try and hold the lead late in the game b/c 3 and outs by the offense are guaranteed killers late in games on tired players. How about putting the onus on the offense to continue to roll the score up until the game is over.....give that defense a rest for doing their jobs. Hail, they had held the Colts to 3 points through 3 quarters. Let them celebrate their efforts on the sideline while watching the offense put up another 7, 10, or 14 points. For ducks sake......learn how to execute a ducking blowout!!!!!!!!!!
 
steelbtexan said:
My respect for Jim Miller really grew after he called Allen as the best QB in the draft. I thought he would be a Trubiski type QB.
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I was with him at the practices. Me, him and Pat were looking like I don't know about this kid. Mills didn't say he was the best qb in the draft, he said he was the most talented. It was the physical traits. I really thought Denver was going to draft him especially with the weather they tend to play in, but they played it safe. I was wrong about Rosen, Thought he was the most polished, but he's been a bust. The thing is ,college kids, even though most play in these spread offenses since high school, throw the ball way more than qbs of the past. So even somebody like Lamar has thrown the ball more than guys like Manning at an earlier age with the 7 on 7 stuff. It comes back to my point in that the qb is still more of a projection than a known. You have to go for physical traits and hope the kid is a hard worker and the coaches are worth a damn.
 
maverick512000 said:
It’s the Eagles and Lions, neither of those teams are any good. The Colts are actually decent and are projected to win the division. Not saying much because the AFCS sucks again but still they are better than Eagles or Lions.
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Eagles are a legit team. They did what teams do and improve through trade and free agency. I'm not a Hurts fan, but he's a leader every sense of the word and he's productive with that run game. They made the playoffs last year and look to be on pace to do it again. They also have a bunch of draft picks going forward. AJ Brown and Smith compliment each other.
 
I agree with the decision to punt. The defense wasn't stopping the Colts and the offense couldn't get 3 yards for a first down (couldn't get 1 yard on third down), much less another 12 yards to get into field goal range. Lovie preaches situational football and the situation calls for a punt - not to lose. There are 15 teams starting the season with an L and we are not one of them.
 
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