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WK1: Colts at Texan Gameday & Discussion

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Seems to be a lot of emphasis on "lose" and not much on "win". Everyone expecting us to "lose". We punted so we wouldn't "lose".

There was still an opportunity to "win" and they chose not to take it. If the score is 21-20 Indy, they're certainly going for it, and they might still "lose". But because of that "tie" safety net where'd they be assured not to "lose", they essentially give up on trying to "win". I don't think that's the message I want permeating the locker room.

Lovie seems to have more confidence in a kicker who just got cut winning it for the Colts, than he did for his own team to make a play on 4th and 3 at midfield with 26 seconds left, or his defense making 1 play, getting a TO, something. Hell, the Colts could have had a bad center exchange like they already had done twice before.

Don't squander opportunities and settle for shit. You play to "win" the game.
I support being focused on process over results. But deep in 4th quarter/OT and Burkhead/Mccray are playing ahead of better players in the key moments of the game… I don’t see how that “process” leads to anything good.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
4q. They started playing a soft zone to work the clock. That was the losers mentality.
Yep… texted a buddy of mine and said the same thing. “Why is the D playing this soft crap?” Gonna bite us and it did!
On another note. Burkhead has a role in this offense to be sure, but it ain’t on 3rd and 1 at nut cuttin time! That’s why you drafted this Pierce kid! Let him get nasty and get that one yard… with a better play call of course 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
I support being focused on process over results. But deep in 4th quarter/OT and Burkhead/Mccray are playing ahead of better players in the key moments of the game… I don’t see how that “process” leads to anything good.
You're right. I believe I mentioned that somewhere around here. The personnel decisions were just as bad as the decision to settle.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I caught Michael Irvin on 610 today and he made similar comments to your post. He said that coming from Miami where they lost 3 games in 3 years to his first two years with the Cowboys when they went 3-13 and 1-15, he understands what the Texans' locker room has gone through the last couple of years. You get close and you lose. You vow that the next time you will be in that situation, you will win and you have that situation and you lose. Fans are saying you suck. You hate going to the grocery store. After losing so much, you start expecting to lose and you can't wait for games to be over. The constant losing affects the locker room and your attitude.

From that perspective, he agreed with Lovie's decision. He said everyone outside that locker room expected the Texans to lose and they had a 17 point lead on the Colts. Why after they played so hard and did so many good things, take a chance to lose and still end up with another lose? So, in his opinion, Lovie did that for the locker room. They didn't lose their home opener. They can take the things that got them that 17 point lead and build on it.

So, you are correct. Lovie preserved that non-loss for his players. Watching game film of a tie is way better than watching film of a loss. Now that I have quoted Michael Irvin and agreed with a Dallas Cowboy, I have to go take a shower.
Good stuff. I agree & it’s also the reason tanking doesn’t make sense to me no matter how you spin it. Losing creates that mind set.

The players might say the right things & act the right way in practice, but on game day it might be half a degree of effort here, or half a degree there. One thing goes wrong & they check out.

Things start snowballing & nobody can put their finger on the issue & we see week after week the same thing.
 

edo783

Hall of Fame
In OT on our third down play, it looked to me like the Colts were basically two deep across the line. Why we chose to run the ball up the middle beats the snott out of me. If they are stacking the line like that, Mills should have switched out of the play, if he is allowed to. It seems that he isn't. Also, Burkhead was not the right guy to run it with, Pierce was the better choice IMO. It seemed like they were trying to give the rookie some time to digest the pro game, in particular blitz pick and pass protection. IRRC, they only ran a pass play twice with Pierce in the backfield. If he is in, its a dead giveaway what we are going to do.
 
I didn't like the call but it's Lovie's team and he made the choice and has to live with it. Lovie probably was listening to the 3rd down play call but Pep had leeway to make it. The 4th down punt call was all Lovie's decision. My position would have been to look at this as a 2 down situation to get the 1st down. I would think that everyone was thinking run, so call a quick, safe and short pass to preserve the 1yd needed if incomplete. You drill into the QB to not take a sack/INT and throw away if it's not there. My reason I didn't like the punt is I feel as though this team/organization already knows losing 2 years running and everyone expects us to lose a lot again this year. So where is the risk if they lose this game? If it's about the process, then the process should be geared towards competing & winning but settling for a potential tie (that luckily ended up a tie) doesn't support either. Not the end of the world after the 1st game but it sure seems like a missed opportunity to learn/grow whether win or lose.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If they are stacking the line like that, Mills should have switched out of the play, if he is allowed to. It seems that he isn't.
Britt got beat by a swim move. If he’s not thrown off balance by the swipe & gets a body on Buckner it’s very possible that any RB would have got that yard.

It wasn’t the play call. It wasn’t the QB decision. It’s possible, I think it’s highly likely Dare, Royce, Marlon, maybe even that Dameon fella could have got that yard anyway.
 

AcresHomesTexan

No Longer Arlington: Escaped From Jerry's World
Staff member
You're right. I believe I mentioned that somewhere around here. The personnel decisions were just as bad as the decision to settle.
And this is why you don't even roster Burkhead, Tyrod Taylor, Justin Britt, etc because in the heat of a game a coach is going stick by and play those dudes when long-term getting the younger guy experience is a wiser choice.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So where is the risk if they lose this game? If it's about the process, then the process should be geared towards competing & winning but settling for a potential tie (that luckily ended up a tie) doesn't support either
I like the idea of 53 guys knowing their coach didn’t believe they could win. Didn’t trust the offense to get 3 yards. Didn’t trust the kicker to get 3 points. Didn’t trust the defense to keep Indy out of field goal range.

Yup, that’s exactly what they should be feeling after the way they played from the start of the 4th qtr
 
I like the idea of 53 guys knowing their coach didn’t believe they could win. Didn’t trust the offense to get 3 yards. Didn’t trust the kicker to get 3 points. Didn’t trust the defense to keep Indy out of field goal range.

Yup, that’s exactly what they should be feeling after the way they played from the start of the 4th qtr
Unless the coaches challenge them by bluntly saying it, I'm not feeling that the players think like that. I've seen in the past that you like to partake in small wagers. So how about this, if this tie results in the Texans winning a tie-breaker to get into the playoffs OR secures them the #1 draft pick in next year's draft I'll donate $$$ to the site on your behalf. If it doesn't you do it on my behalf PLUS UberEats me a 40oz for my nostalgia purposes.:wesmantexanfan:
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Unless the coaches challenge them by bluntly saying it, I'm not feeling that the players think like that. I've seen in the past that you like to partake in small wagers. So how about this, if this tie results in the Texans winning a tie-breaker to get into the playoffs OR secures them the #1 draft pick in next year's draft I'll donate $$$ to the site on your behalf. If it doesn't you do it on my behalf PLUS UberEats me a 40oz for my nostalgia purposes.:wesmantexanfan:
Hahaha

I don’t think this tie will have any substantial effect on the playoffs (we’re not going to the playoffs) or the 1st pick in the draft (I don’t think we’ll “earn” a top 10 pick.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
NO. WRONG. Mills should have been playing defense and making tackles, dammit.
Its all Mills fault. Throwing 2 TDs to a TE who wasn’t even on the team last week, the tie yesterday, the virus, the Queens death, the Cowboys loss.…
This guy is a F’ing cancer and he needs to go.…
You realize you're killing his trade value...

Lol
 

vtech9

Veteran
Ok...I rewatched the sack fumble that everyone is blaming on Tunsil. After watching it several times, I can't blame Tunsil any longer. That was just a well designed, and well executed defensive play. Colts #51 was lined up at DE, and #45 came up and showed blitz. #51 attacked Green at LG, and Green answered. Tunsil backpedaled to support Green, while also being in a position to stop the blitzing #45. However, after #51 attacked Green, he bounced off to stunt inside. While #51 was bouncing inside, #44 was coming on a delayed blitz right off of #51's heels. Since #44 had the inside track, and Green was still trying to block #51, Tunsil had to help with the most direct threat at the time which was #44. Green recovered in time to get a piece of #44, but in Tunsil's defense, when Tunsil acted to help on #44, it didn't look like Green would get back. Because Tunsil chose to help on #44, it left #45 a free path to Mills. If Tunsil went out to block #45, I think #44 still get's the sack, but maybe not as clean of a hit. Tunsil was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't. It was really a no-win situation for Tunsil.

However, at the snap, Brevin Jordan is lined up at TE next to Tunsil, and Tunsil points out the #45 to Brevin. Brevin Jordan then releases on his route, and never made an attempt to chip block either one of the blitzing Colts. If he had, maybe he delays them enough for Mills to get rid of the ball. If he chips #45, maybe Tunsil has time to help with #44, and still get back to the delayed #45. If Jordan chips #44 as he's running through, it should give Green enough time to break off from #51, so he is ready for #44 when he comes. If Green is free to take #44, Tunsil can relax and take #45, and the play goes on.

Who's to blame? Maybe Tunsil for not being more vocal. Maybe Brevin for not attempting to slow down the blitzing Colts. Maybe Mills for not seeing the blitz coming. Maybe the coaches for not having the team prepared for that blitz.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Ok...I rewatched the sack fumble that everyone is blaming on Tunsil. After watching it several times, I can't blame Tunsil any longer. That was just a well designed, and well executed defensive play. Colts #51 was lined up at DE, and #45 came up and showed blitz. #51 attacked Green at LG, and Green answered. Tunsil backpedaled to support Green, while also being in a position to stop the blitzing #45. However, after #51 attacked Green, he bounced off to stunt inside. While #51 was bouncing inside, #44 was coming on a delayed blitz right off of #51's heels. Since #44 had the inside track, and Green was still trying to block #51, Tunsil had to help with the most direct threat at the time which was #44. Green recovered in time to get a piece of #44, but in Tunsil's defense, when Tunsil acted to help on #44, it didn't look like Green would get back. Because Tunsil chose to help on #44, it left #45 a free path to Mills. If Tunsil went out to block #45, I think #44 still get's the sack, but maybe not as clean of a hit. Tunsil was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't. It was really a no-win situation for Tunsil.

However, at the snap, Brevin Jordan is lined up at TE next to Tunsil, and Tunsil points out the #45 to Brevin. Brevin Jordan then releases on his route, and never made an attempt to chip block either one of the blitzing Colts. If he had, maybe he delays them enough for Mills to get rid of the ball. If he chips #45, maybe Tunsil has time to help with #44, and still get back to the delayed #45. If Jordan chips #44 as he's running through, it should give Green enough time to break off from #51, so he is ready for #44 when he comes. If Green is free to take #44, Tunsil can relax and take #45, and the play goes on.

Who's to blame? Maybe Tunsil for not being more vocal. Maybe Brevin for not attempting to slow down the blitzing Colts. Maybe Mills for not seeing the blitz coming. Maybe the coaches for not having the team prepared for that blitz.
Appreciate your detailed breakdown as I only saw the play as it happened. To me it looked like Green was handling his guy sufficiently and Tunsil made the wrong decision to help out when he should have blocked the defensive guy to his left. Tunsil appeared to realize this too late.
 

vtech9

Veteran
Appreciate your detailed breakdown as I only saw the play as it happened. To me it looked like Green was handling his guy sufficiently and Tunsil made the wrong decision to help out when he should have blocked the defensive guy to his left. Tunsil appeared to realize this too late.
Green recovered well, but was still over extended. Without the help from Tunsil, #44 gets the sack. From Tunsil's perspective, it didn't look like Green was going to be able to get back in time. OL are taught to work from inside out, so #44 was the most immediate threat. I had the play slowed down to .25 speed, and by the time Tunsil realized Green was going to recover, it was too late for Tunsil to get back to #45. However, if Brevin Jordan lays a hit on either one of those guys, I think it's highly likely that Mills doesn't get sacked.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Green recovered well, but was still over extended. Without the help from Tunsil, #44 gets the sack. From Tunsil's perspective, it didn't look like Green was going to be able to get back in time. OL are taught to work from inside out, so #44 was the most immediate threat. I had the play slowed down to .25 speed, and by the time Tunsil realized Green was going to recover, it was too late for Tunsil to get back to #45. However, if Brevin Jordan lays a hit on either one of those guys, I think it's highly likely that Mills doesn't get sacked.
The TE position has to be upgraded from both a talent and mental standpoint. Pharoh and Jordan were making some of these same kinds of mistakes last yr. I thought it was because Jordan was a rookie, but maybe not.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Should he trust his team to make the play even if he 100% felt they could not make the play?
As I’ve said throughout this thread, you don’t leave opportunities to win on the table. You’ve just got to make 3 yards. They made plenty of 3 yard plays in that game. If they don’t make it, you’ve just got to defend a pass, make a stop, all things they’ve done throughout the game. Hell, the Colts could have had another bad center exchange. Blankenship wasn’t having a good day. He ends up getting cut. A lot of things that could have happened where they don’t lose while still trying to win, and Lovie punted any chance for a win away and simply assumed they’d lose.

Doesn’t seem like a good message to my team to me.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
As I’ve said throughout this thread, you don’t leave opportunities to win on the table. You’ve just got to make 3 yards. They made plenty of 3 yard plays in that game. If they don’t make it, you’ve just got to defend a pass, make a stop, all things they’ve done throughout the game. Hell, the Colts could have had another bad center exchange. Blankenship wasn’t having a good day. He ends up getting cut. A lot of things that could have happened where they don’t lose while still trying to win, and Lovie punted any chance for a win away and simply assumed they’d lose.

Doesn’t seem like a good message to my team to me.
Aren’t players taught by coaches to forget about the last play if it went bad so they can be focused on making the next play successful?

Sounds like the coaches should be taught that too. The team has gained 3 yards earlier in the game… why not try and do it again?!
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Green recovered well, but was still over extended. Without the help from Tunsil, #44 gets the sack. From Tunsil's perspective, it didn't look like Green was going to be able to get back in time. OL are taught to work from inside out, so #44 was the most immediate threat. I had the play slowed down to .25 speed, and by the time Tunsil realized Green was going to recover, it was too late for Tunsil to get back to #45. However, if Brevin Jordan lays a hit on either one of those guys, I think it's highly likely that Mills doesn't get sacked.
For anyone that had the all 22, did the play calling and QB play change after that sack / fumble? I know it changed the momentum, but it sure seemed to rattle Mills. He did not make any real plays after that as I recall. I did not rewatch, but just seems like the kid was hurt or shaken. Sexy Rexy running so many plays late could not help either.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
For anyone that had the all 22, did the play calling and QB play change after that sack / fumble? I know it changed the momentum, but it sure seemed to rattle Mills. He did not make any real plays after that as I recall. I did not rewatch, but just seems like the kid was hurt or shaken. Sexy Rexy running so many plays late could not help either.
I thought the play calling changed drastically after the sack fumble
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Tunsil choosing to help Green…
Burkhead getting more plays than Pierce…
Play calling getting more conservative after sack fumble by Mills…

All this leads me to think the first game of the season caused the coaching staff to be more protective with key players. Choosing to bring them up slowly. Trying to get the max protection for Mills.

I can see the coaches telling Tunsil to look to help out Green.
I can see the coaches limiting the play time for Pierce if he is misses a blocks or two.
I can see the coaches being conservative with Mills to protect him for various reasons.

First game of the year. The team’s play calling and play will look different mid season.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
As I’ve said throughout this thread, you don’t leave opportunities to win on the table. You’ve just got to make 3 yards. They made plenty of 3 yard plays in that game. If they don’t make it, you’ve just got to defend a pass, make a stop, all things they’ve done throughout the game. Hell, the Colts could have had another bad center exchange. Blankenship wasn’t having a good day. He ends up getting cut. A lot of things that could have happened where they don’t lose while still trying to win, and Lovie punted any chance for a win away and simply assumed they’d lose.

Doesn’t seem like a good message to my team to me.
I agree. the folks I was watching the game with and I were upset that the Texans chose to punt. As exhausted as our offense was that was a perfect chance of getting a better understanding of where our players were. This is the season to take risk and to gamble. A half game is not going to benefit us.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
I agree. the folks I was watching the game with and I were upset that the Texans chose to punt. As exhausted as our offense was that was a perfect chance of getting a better understanding of where our players were. This is the season to take risk and to gamble. A half game is not going to benefit us.
I agree with that….from a fans perspective.

Also from a coaching perspective I can respect Lovie’s decision.

He can’t go into game one of the season coaching like this is a throw away year. Lovie, the players and that entire organization needs to start off with the goal of getting into the playoffs.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I agree with that….from a fans perspective.

Also from a coaching perspective I can respect Lovie’s decision.

He can’t go into game one of the season coaching like this is a throw away year. Lovie, the players and that entire organization needs to start off with the goal of getting into the playoffs.
Lovie kept telling us all spring that they were going to run the ball. Sure would have been nice to see some old fashioned smash mouth football there in OT
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I agree with that….from a fans perspective.

Also from a coaching perspective I can respect Lovie’s decision.

He can’t go into game one of the season coaching like this is a throw away year. Lovie, the players and that entire organization needs to start off with the goal of getting into the playoffs.
True and he coached and team played to win.. until they didn’t.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Here’s that crucial third and one play. Dude split both Britt and McCray.

McCray looks like he’s expecting to help after Britt stands up Buckner. Britt doesn’t stand up Buckner so McCray is blocking wind.

733DC7D2-8FF1-40FF-9BF0-D6D365A60E9D.png
Cann does a good job getting under his man & passing him off to Howard.

5EE65AF1-BCB3-4BB7-94EE-89A514D94104.png

if you weren’t mad enough already, look at 67 standing up that guy on the end. Yep, we had six OLmen in there, two TEs & not only did we not pick up a yard, we lost two.

No way in heck I’m putting my confidence in these guys at this moment. & they need to know that.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
No way in heck I’m putting my confidence in these guys at this moment. & they need to know that.
I hear a lot of people saying Lovie’s actions didn’t instill confidence in the players.

To me as a player I would take that as a challenge to play better.

I don’t think professional player’s mental state is that of a toddler that they would get upset and quit knowing their coach knew their play in the last quarter was instilling a lack of confidence.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You're either in the game to win or you're not in the game.
Smith should apologize to all concerned.
We're "always" asking the coaches to be honest & avoid coach speak. To tell us what they really think & hold players accountable.

Lovie can't be any clearer or honest about what he thought about his team at that moment.
 

Porky

Hall of Fame


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