Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Sexual Assault Suits Against Watson

just out of curiosity, Doc do you dislike Watson? I do, but what exactly is it about him that you hate so much? Don’t take this wrong but what am I missing. I mean this guy is complete scum but maybe I’m missing something?
Hate is definitely not the emotion to describe my feelings towards Watson. In my reconstructive practice over the years, I have had the opportunity to take care of quite a few victims with a related history of sexual abuse. Watson fits the classic predatorial actor shared with me by all of those.............the same disbelief due to delayed reporting................the same difficulty in proving criminality............the same contrast in power and financial standing between perpetrator and victim.............the same entitlement role leading to the events....................the same victim shaming.............the same attacks directed toward the victims for finally having the strength to tell their stories. Regarding Watson, I could have chosen to take a passive role in quietly watching events. I have chosen at least to try to keep others informed in real-time developments, as it is far too easy for the focus to be on how all this has affected Watson's career as opposed to how this has affected his victims' lives.
 
Hate is definitely not the emotion to describe my feelings towards Watson. In my reconstructive practice over the years, I have had the opportunity to take care of quite a few victims with a related history of sexual abuse. Watson fits the classic predatorial actor shared with me by all of those.............the same disbelief due to delayed reporting................the same difficulty in proving criminality............the same contrast in power and financial standing between perpetrator and victim.............the same entitlement role leading to the events....................the same victim shaming.............the same attacks directed toward the victims for finally having the strength to tell their stories. Regarding Watson, I could have chosen to take a passive role in quietly watching events. I have chosen at least to try to keep others informed in real-time developments, as it is far too easy for the focus to be on how all this has affected Watson's career as opposed to how this has affected his victims' lives.

Thank you for keeping us informed.

This seems to be almost on more of a personal level.

giphy.gif
 
!!!

Yes, please.
Use the CEL for this season based on/under the guise that the jackpot is evolving. No telling where the roads leads.
CEL and DW4 gets his $1mil salary and the NFL is open to suspending him his 2nd year.
Just to clarify CEL can only be used if there is a criminal indictment if I remember correctly. A suspension is still the probable goal.
 
If testimony is evidence and she was not allowed to testify will not that come back upon the court? I am definitely no expert but from what little was said on that audio for me it sounded like an opinion.
It could. Buzbee’s argument was that the detective, the one who gathered the evidence was not allowed to testify before the GJ. And for Ogg to say opinion isn’t evidence, well testimony is. I honestly can’t believe she did that interview because Buzbee will seize upon it. He already is going to depose another officer about what happened with the DA’s office.

Also, the GJ processing are one sided for the prosecution, not the defense. In this case the defense had more sway than the complainants did, because not all of the complainants got to testify either.
 
It could. Buzbee’s argument was that the detective, the one who gathered the evidence was not allowed to testify before the GJ. And for Ogg to say opinion isn’t evidence, well testimony is. I honestly can’t believe she did that interview because Buzbee will seize upon it. He already is going to depose another officer about what happened with the DA’s office.

Also, the GJ processing are one sided for the prosecution, not the defense. In this case the defense had more sway than the complainants did, because not all of the complainants got to testify either.
That was a terrible interview carried out by Meltzer. He should have stuck to sports radio. He didn't ask any hard questions, and let obvious misinformation slide. Canned video organizing a defense attorney's case is not something that is in any way what is meant by a "packet." And any information presented by the defendant's attorney is supposed to be reviewed and re-presented in the DA's own words to the grand jurors. It was never meant to be the defendant attorney's opportunity to entirely bypass a contested presentation. And how were over 100,000 pages of information attained by investigators, grand jury instructions, grand juror's questions, complainants live testimony (a right of each complainant) condensed in a preceeding that lasted from beginning to end in less than 5 1/2 hours.......such little time which be not even given for 1 case, let alone 10. Thank you, Meltzer. And don't forget to thank Ogg for her gracious sidesteps.
 
If testimony is evidence and she was not allowed to testify will not that come back upon the court? I am definitely no expert but from what little was said on that audio for me it sounded like an opinion.
It's not coming back in criminal court. GJ said no bill. The two prosecutors didn't present enough evidence to two GJs to warrant any of the 10 cases to be prosecuted.
 
It's not coming back in criminal court. GJ said no bill. The two prosecutors didn't present enough evidence to two GJs to warrant any of the 10 cases to be prosecuted.
A new grand jury can be opened at any time based on any new evidence that might come up. And to be honest I do expect that.
 
None of that means anything. It can absolutely come back before another GJ.

I also think you are misrepresenting what happened. The evidence warranted an indictment. The DA didn’t want one. Period.
Is my understanding correct that the County District Attorneys basically Answer to No One other than voters?
The Texas Attorney General has no Authority or control over the counties?
 
I also think you are misrepresenting what happened. The evidence warranted an indictment. The DA didn’t want one. Period.
Misrepresenting because I'm stating facts?

My statement is not contradictory to yours.

The two prosecutors didn't present enough evidence to two GJs to warrant any of the 10 cases to be prosecuted.
The DA didn’t want one. Period.

I wonder why you read it as if it were.
 
Florio hits the nail on the head in this article
Florio came up with many of the same questions I brought up about the seeming irregularities of Grand Jury proceedings (which were claimed to be "routine" by a DA in these types of proceedings............totally bogus).

This is not even explaining how you complete a legitimate Grand Jury proceeding covering 10 complaints in 5 1/2 hours.
 
Florio came up with many of the same questions I brought up about the seeming irregularities of Grand Jury proceedings (which were claimed to be "routine" by a DA in these types of proceedings............totally bogus).

This is not even explaining how you complete a legitimate Grand Jury proceeding covering 10 complaints in 5 1/2 hours.
Do you think the difficulty of prosecuting "He said, she said" cases had anything to do with the prosecution failing to do everything they could do secure an indictment? It is a lot of time and a lot of money for a case like this. I fully believe Watson is guilty, but do you think the difficulty in proving it was an issue?
 
Do you think the difficulty of prosecuting "He said, she said" cases had anything to do with the prosecution failing to do everything they could do secure an indictment? It is a lot of time and a lot of money for a case like this. I fully believe Watson is guilty, but do you think the difficulty in proving it was an issue?

its not he said she said
at this point its she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she, she and she said vs he said
 
Do you think the difficulty of prosecuting "He said, she said" cases had anything to do with the prosecution failing to do everything they could do secure an indictment? It is a lot of time and a lot of money for a case like this. I fully believe Watson is guilty, but do you think the difficulty in proving it was an issue?
Convictions have been gotten with only that much. But there is support beyond this in these cases. The prosecutorial information is supposed to be presented in full. The grandjurors are the ones to make a bill/no bill decision. the DA is not there to make the decision for the grandjurors based on the potential difficulty that she perceives. If anything the DA in a Grand jury is there to firmly present the complainant's side of the issue in a strongly positive fashion.
 
Last edited:
Do you think the difficulty of prosecuting "He said, she said" cases had anything to do with the prosecution failing to do everything they could do secure an indictment? It is a lot of time and a lot of money for a case like this. I fully believe Watson is guilty, but do you think the difficulty in proving it was an issue?
You don’t have to prove guilt at indictment. That’s just probable cause to move forward to charge the defendant and to continue investigating. The DA’s office accepts and charges much lesser offenses on he said she said. When the DA’s office accepts a charge for example (separate from grand jury proceedings), something as simple as harassing communications (misdemeanor), there is specific information or wording that needs to be sent in the report to the DA by the police officer. The victim must say they felt harassed and threatened, and most times that’s enough and the DA will accept charges. (They accept this charge without actual proof of such communications)
However, going back to the original topic, there was enough there to indict him. Not having the detective or her team testify signaled how much of a sham this was. Not having all of the complainants testify was a disgrace. For Kim Ogg to then say there wasn’t enough evidence, she’s a clown.
 
Last edited:
Hate is definitely not the emotion to describe my feelings towards Watson. In my reconstructive practice over the years, I have had the opportunity to take care of quite a few victims with a related history of sexual abuse. Watson fits the classic predatorial actor shared with me by all of those.............the same disbelief due to delayed reporting................the same difficulty in proving criminality............the same contrast in power and financial standing between perpetrator and victim.............the same entitlement role leading to the events....................the same victim shaming.............the same attacks directed toward the victims for finally having the strength to tell their stories. Regarding Watson, I could have chosen to take a passive role in quietly watching events. I have chosen at least to try to keep others informed in real-time developments, as it is far too easy for the focus to be on how all this has affected Watson's career as opposed to how this has affected his victims' lives.
I work with abused women (and men) almost every day in some way. I also work with those who have abused others. I don't have the emotional stamina to keep up with Watson's case. And I don't have intimate knowledge of Watson or his accusers, or the (actual) events that has led to this circus. I know what he's accused of. I know the number of accusers. I know the some of the alleged perversions. And that's about it. In non-clinical terms, I believe, as someone else stated in a video posted on this board, Watson's a "freak". The signs point to him being a sexual predator as well but I can't make that clinical determination without knowing all the facts. So I do sit passively by, quietly hoping justice will prevail while cracking an occasional joke on Watson's expense because **** that guy. He wanted out of Houston, he's gone, so **** that guy.
 
I work with abused women (and men) almost every day in some way. I also work with those who have abused others. I don't have the emotional stamina to keep up with Watson's case. And I don't have intimate knowledge of Watson or his accusers, or the (actual) events that has led to this circus. I know what he's accused of. I know the number of accusers. I know the some of the alleged perversions. And that's about it. In non-clinical terms, I believe, as someone else stated in a video posted on this board, Watson's a "freak". The signs point to him being a sexual predator as well but I can't make that clinical determination without knowing all the facts. So I do sit passively by, quietly hoping justice will prevail while cracking an occasional joke on Watson's expense because **** that guy. He wanted out of Houston, he's gone, so **** that guy.
This is kinda my point. This thread has pretty much taught me all the machinations of the GJ, police, lawyers, NFL, DW, his agents, his contract, etc, but really nothing about his accusers.
 
Hate is definitely not the emotion to describe my feelings towards Watson. In my reconstructive practice over the years, I have had the opportunity to take care of quite a few victims with a related history of sexual abuse. Watson fits the classic predatorial actor shared with me by all of those.............the same disbelief due to delayed reporting................the same difficulty in proving criminality............the same contrast in power and financial standing between perpetrator and victim.............the same entitlement role leading to the events....................the same victim shaming.............the same attacks directed toward the victims for finally having the strength to tell their stories. Regarding Watson, I could have chosen to take a passive role in quietly watching events. I have chosen at least to try to keep others informed in real-time developments, as it is far too easy for the focus to be on how all this has affected Watson's career as opposed to how this has affected his victims' lives.
So when you say reconstructive practice as it relates to sexual abuse then you are talking about physially assaulted victims who were physically battered or other injured, right?
 
So C&D you are flat coming out and saying that Ogg's assistant Stahlings was bribed ?
Well we shall see. To get to the bottom of that you will likely see Buzbee depose Stallings and maybe even Hardin. Jenny Vrentas from the NYT has the text messages between Hardin and Stallings, which Buzbee more than likely does as well which would make it a perfect situation to depose them both.!
 
You don’t have to prove guilt at indictment. That’s just probable cause to move forward to charge the defendant and to continue investigating. The DA’s office accepts and charges much lesser offenses on he said she said. When the DA’s office accepts a charge for example (separate from grand jury proceedings), something as simple as harassing communications (misdemeanor), there is specific information or wording that needs to be sent in the report to the DA by the police officer. The victim must say they felt harassed and threatened, and most times that’s enough and the DA will accept charges. (They accept this charge without actual proof of such communications)
However, going back to the original topic, there was enough there to indict him. Not having the detective or her team testify signaled how much of a sham this was. Not having all of the complainants testify was a disgrace. For Kim Ogg to then say there wasn’t enough evidence, she’s a clown.
I agree. I am just trying to figure out why she didn't go full throttle on getting an indictment. Did she think it would be too difficult to get a conviction and that is why she didn't go all out to get the indictment?
 
So when you say reconstructive practice as it relates to sexual abuse then you are talking about physially assaulted victims who were physically battered or other injured, right?
Throughout my practice, I have had patients exposed to different forms of "sexual abuse." Not all physically. For example, I have had to perform genital reconstructions...........some caused by rape..........and some caused by non-physical sexual abuse resulting in the patient focusing (being reminded of the experience) in a negative fashion on their own external genitalia shapes and sizes (many following formal counseling). Such surgeries have served to allow most of these patients to better go on with their lives and help them to get past their experience.
 
TDCAF NEWS
November-December 2019
Thanks to Rusty Hardin
By Rob Kepple
TDCAF and TDCAA Executive Director in Austin
The Foundation exists as a way for those who love the profession of prosecution to support and grow the ability of our association to serve you.

This vision is nothing less than an ever-increasing ability to support Texas prosecutors so that when it is time to stand up and announce, “The State is ready,” you know that you are.

There is not a more enthusiastic supporter of our profession than former Harris County Assistant District Attorney and current defense attorney Rusty Hardin. No doubt many of us have prosecuted with Rusty, and many of you have opposed Rusty in the courtroom.

Either way, you should know that at TDCAA’s 2005 Board dinner in conjunction with the Annual Update in Corpus Christi, we first discussed the creation of an educational foundation to support the mission of TDCAA. Rusty was so enthusiastic about the idea that he asked for a pen. He insisted that he be the first person to donate to the new Foundation, and on that evening’s dinner menu wrote his pledge for the first $10,000 donation. Of his own money. I kept that dinner menu, and sure enough, Rusty was the first donor when the Foundation launched the next year.

It seemed only fitting that we honor and recognize him at this year’s Board dinner, again in conjunction with an Annual conference in Corpus Christi—and yes, that’s a framed copy of that dinner-menu pledge from so many years ago in the photo below!

1655657637128.png

Rusty Hardin (at right with his framed menu) and I at the Board dinner in Corpus Christi.

Rusty’s enthusiasm has not waned over the years—he is still the biggest personal donor to the foundation by far.

Thank you Rusty, on behalf of all of us!

*************************************************************

Fingers in every pot..............Goes a long way towards a "packet" for the Harris County DA's Grand Jury presentation.
 
Throughout my practice, I have had patients exposed to different forms of "sexual abuse." Not all physically. For example, I have had to perform genital reconstructions...........some caused by rape..........and some caused by non-physical sexual abuse resulting in the patient focusing (being reminded of the experience) in a negative fashion on their own external genitalia shapes and sizes (many following formal counseling). Such surgeries have served to allow most of these patients to better go on with their lives and help them to get past their experience.
OK thanks Doc, your comments here are very educational for me.
 
NFL interviewed “at least” 11 of 24 plaintiffs; neither league nor team contacted Harris County D.A.
Posted by Mike Florio on June 20, 2022, 9:50 AM EDT


As the NFL prepares to do something about the longstanding investigation of Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson, some details have emerged regarding the extent of the review.

Friday’s article from Mark Maske of the Washington Post, which drew most of its attention for the suggestion that the league will start the formal disciplinary process by recommending a one-year suspension for Watson, also explains that the NFL, through Lisa Friel, interviewed “at least” 11 of the 24 plaintiffs represented by attorney Tony Buzbee, “along with other women.” Friel, per Maske, also reviewed “relevant available documents.” Also, and as previously known, Friel interviewed Watson over a total of four days in Houston.


It’s unclear why the other 13 plaintiffs weren’t interviewed. Two emerged only recently. Did the other 11 decline? Or did Friel decide that their accounts weren’t needed?

It’s also unclear who the “other women”? Two who made criminal complaints against Watson have not sued him. Eighteen massage therapists issued statements of support for Watson early in the process. Recently, Jenny Vrentas of the New York Times reported that Watson received private massages from at least 66 women in a 17-month period.

The term “relevant available documents” could be extremely broad, from all text messages and social-media posts generated by Watson’s various massages to the deposition transcripts of everyone who has testified in the case to the civil complaints, the answers to the complaints, and any other paperwork created by the 24 lawsuits. Friel also may have asked attorney Rusty Hardin to give the league the “packet” that was sent to the Harris County prosecutor Johna Stallings for transmission to the grand jury. If it was good enough to get a grand jury to not indict Watson, Friel should be curious to see how the packet characterizes the case — especially if anything Hardin said conflicts with her own impressions based on a diligent review of the evidence.

It’s a lot of material to review. To be thorough, however, every document must be examined. Something that influences the final decision can be lurking anywhere. It’s one of the most basic realities of litigation that includes a vast array of documents. Someone must search the haystacks for the needles, without knowing that any needles are even lurking among the hay.

One thing that didn’t occur was that, as Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg told Mike Meltser in a recent podcast interview, neither the league nor the Browns contacted her. Both league and team would surely say that they didn’t do it because she couldn’t tell them anything about the grand-jury proceedings. But there’s always value in having a conversation. Even if she’s limited in what she can say to them on the record, the establishment of a good relationship with Ogg — starting from the launch of the process — possibly could have yielded some useful off-the-record guidance.

That’s how the world works. How various different forms of sausage get made. If Friel and Ogg (and/or Stallings) had established a relationship that resulted in the development of mutual trust, Friel could have finagled the truth as to why Watson wasn’t indicted. Maybe, as I believe, Ogg and Stallings suspected that Watson did something he shouldn’t have done, they believe it would be impossible to avoid the creation of “reasonable doubt” by Rusty Hardin and his legal team, and they deferred as a practical matter to other aspects of the justice system, whether through the civil lawsuits or, as Ogg told Meltser, the administrative process.

It’s still not known what the league will ultimately do. It’s unclear how thorough the league has been in investigating the situation. However, anything less than completely and totally thorough is not thorough enough, if the league wants anyone to believe that it wanted to make an accurate and clear and legitimate decision as to what Watson did or didn’t do, and as to what the consequences should or shouldn’t be.

The fact that more cases are being filed and more information seems to be surfacing makes it impossible, frankly, to know everything before making a decision. That’s why, in the end, the best decision could be to press pause on Watson’s playing career until the league knows everything that can be known about conduct that has led to 24 lawsuits, two more that will be filed, and possibly even more after that — especially if, for example, the belief that the league didn’t do enough about the situation becomes the catalyst for even more women to sue.

*********************************************************

One thing is clear to me.............Ogg had no problem discussing some of the machinations of the Grand Jury with Meltzer.........but didn't see fit to call in the League and the Browns to fulfill their "thorough investigation................and the League didn't see fit to call on Ogg or the Browns...........
 
Last edited:
I'm trying to figure out, if Watson had at least 66 massage therapists work on him, how would he ever remember any circumstances and details of specific encounters in order to testify factually about them in court? Oh, I know, as a great intellect, he took copious notes on each of them in his personal diary.............or as a classic pervert, he memorized and relived each and every encounter so that he could savor them ad lib.
 
I'm trying to figure out, if Watson had at least 66 massage therapists work on him, how would he ever remember any circumstances and details of specific encounters in order to testify factually about them in court? Oh, I know, as a great intellect, he took copious notes on each of them in his personal diary.............or as a classic pervert, he memorized and relived each and every encounter so that he could savor them ad lib.
And no text messages to turn over since he deleted everything 😂
 
Dan Lust, noted Sports Attorney who has always been somewhat pro-Watson in covering what is fair or not fair to Watson:


Lust's speculations on the Texans' involvement is just that at this point.
 
Back
Top