How are you differentiating the two?
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DW4 Traded to Cleveland
- Thread starter Texansphan
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How are you differentiating the two?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It's pretty evident that Haslam and Watson are sewn from the same cloth. Arrogance and self-awareness seldom go hand in hand. As Albert Einstein once said, "The only thing more dangerous than ignorance is arrogance."
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Dictionary.com
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Still blinded huh? Yall took a comment and ran with it because you're looking for anything. I brought up Walsh because he stated you have a base, which I'm sure Stefanski has, but he's also going to attempt to do things Watson are great at like the deep ball and on the move. Reid isn't running the same offense with Mahomes as he did Vick, McNabb, or Kolb. There are principles, but totally different because of the qb. Nothing in that article, which we knew it wasn't going to be, said anything about changing the offense. Keep reaching
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
So you're going to act like Jerry Rice wasn't complaining because Young was taking off running vs passing like Montana.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Pretty much. Posters are just mad because if his accusations, guaranteed money, and forcing his way out. Any article Browns related, it's posted in this thread on a Texans forum. Those grapes must be sour like grapefruit
Of course Texans fans feel this way. Both the QB and the organization led us to believe that fans had something to hope for, but unfortunately, both the franchise and player ended up being a-holes for different reasons.
Now that he's no longer on our team, we get to pick at his deficiencies (nobody is perfect) while hoping he poops his pants every time he takes the field.
As far as the organization, we have an entire forum dedicated to picking apart how stupid they are.
That's how sports tribalism works for those of us dumb enough to be 'loyal' to one of these billion dollar entertainment companies. lol
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Do you even read the posts you reply to?
Stefanski said that Watson will have significant input and not run anything he doesn’t want to.
You talk about Reid running different offenses with Vick, McNabb and Kolb and then bring up Walsh with Montana and Young.
Do you think any of those QBs prior to winning a Super Bowl told their HC what they were and weren’t going to run? Or what QB told their coach how to run their offense?
Give me names of those QBs and HCs who did that prior to winning Superbowls.
I’ll wait.
This all lines up with the “rumors” that Watson wanted an unprecedented amount of control of situations. From GM all the way down.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Has no validity to what we are discussing.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
He didn't say running something he doesn't want to. You're making up stuff. You saw it that way because you're blinded. Nowhere in that article does it say that.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You're still in that bs narrative, but carry on.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
That's called collusion. You can't tell a team not to trade for someone to improve their team. This is ridiculous
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
It begins with the letter F and ends in the letter u.
Lol. You walked into that one.
Tribalism or hell has no fury like a fan scorned. I'm not interested in mock drafts or draft speculation or being an amateur college scout evaluating college talent. So, this is usually a slow NFL period. But man, it's wild that this thread and the sexual assault thread appears to still be the most active threads on this forum.
After a year of this non-stop Watson drama, I thought fans would be sick and tired of talking about Watson. Well, I've peeked in for the week. Carry on guys.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Kevin Stefanski: Deshaun Watson is doing a nice job learning the system
When the Browns offseason program got underway on a snowy day in Cleveland this week, quarterback Deshaun Watson was all smiles.
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com
Stefanski did say it:
“And certain things that maybe he doesn’t love, you don’t do because it’s just ultimately what our quarterback is most comfortable doing.”
He won’t do things Watson doesn’t want to do.
How much clearer can it be?
Unless you are they type that wants to put your head in the sand.
Your post already proves you don’t read the subject matter you are replying to that makes you badly informed.
Hey Derrick, is that how long a finger you like stuck up your butt?
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
I am just here for the free air. Nothing else of value to add.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Show me a coach who wants his qb to do things he's uncomfortable doing and I will show you a dumb coach. Oh yeah, Bill O'Brien did that. Did you see the Ravens offense with Flacco vs the LJ offense? Did you see the Alex Smith offense vs Mahomes offense? If you watched any interview or listened to the player, the offensive coach is going to take out plays that the qb isn't comfortable with and add stuff he is. That's basic football.Kevin Stefanski: Deshaun Watson is doing a nice job learning the system
When the Browns offseason program got underway on a snowy day in Cleveland this week, quarterback Deshaun Watson was all smiles.
Stefanski did say it:
“And certain things that maybe he doesn’t love, you don’t do because it’s just ultimately what our quarterback is most comfortable doing.”
He won’t do things Watson doesn’t want to do.
How much clearer can it be?
Unless you are they type that wants to put your head in the sand.
Your post already proves you don’t read the subject matter you are replying to that makes you badly informed.
It's literally the exact reason they wanted to move off of Baker and onto a player with the added skillet of a Deshaun..
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Mutual humble admiration society............
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
You failed to make your case on all your points. Your counter points aren’t consistent and all over the place.
First you wanted to say a coach was tailoring his program. That was proved false. It is Watson with significant input.
Then you said Stefanski didn’t say that and I was making it up. I had to go back and quote it for you.
Now you want to argue something other than the fact all the points I proved.
Everyone knows that to grow as an individual sometimes you have to do things you are uncomfortable with. You obviously have no experience with personal growth.
Now you want to say QBs shouldn’t do things they are uncomfortable with? The best athletes do whatever it takes to win. Whether they are comfortable or not running a play.
Go eat your wheaties and come back when you get your story together.
The Watson apologists always have an excuse for him. It is unbelievable. Such denial.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The way it's worded does not necessarily mean that several organizations have not independently decided that they want nothing to do with dealing with Haslam for whatever reasons............not least of all for seeing him as a person of questionable ethics in business dealings. Things like that happen in the real world all the time. It's just smart business when a business goes rogue, not collusion.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Not an apologist, you just have sour grapes and are reaching. The only coach who wouldn't play to his qb strengths are dumb and hard headed like Bill O'Brien. It's like there is a reason post Randy Moss, BB shortened the passing game of Brady. He didn't ask him to throw deep and take hits because post knee injury Brady was different in terms of driving the ball down field. As a coach you're supposed to put your players in a position to be successful, especially the qb. So when a qb gets the playbook, especially a vet that has been in the league for 5 years and yall are going through the plays, there are going to be some things that may make the qb uncomfortable. When you get to practice, it may be a set and a pass off that set that having difficulty deciphering . Good coaching will scrao it or modify it. I don't know why you're having such difficulty understanding this. Romeo didn't ask JJ to 2 gap did he? Phillips didn't ask Bruce Smith or Aaron Donald to 2 gap either. You know why? Because it doesn't play to their strength.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You remember when Al Davis was alive and doing his signings and some of the players he overpaid with roster bonus because they weren't a cash team? Every owners meeting, the conservative owners would be crying about what he's paying players. Dan Snyder won the offseason every year with his spending and every year, the owners who don't spend would complain. Even though they're in a conglomerate, they're still 32 independent corporations.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Ironic and fitting to be talking about Dan Snyder in a Watson thread. On that note how many times did his winning the off season translate to winning the season?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
0. He spent his money wrong in my opinion. How many times did he acquire a probowl level qb in his prime?
I believe it's very easy to be able to tell the difference between the 2 offenses. If you can't tell the difference then nobody is going to be able to help you differentiate this.
I get what you are saying and don't necessarily disagree with you.
However when Derrick fails it will be somebody else's fault. It always is. Probably Stephanski, God I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. He's a dead man walking and probably doesn't even realize it.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Oh I bet he does, him and Berry both. As others have said when you hand a player that much guaranteed money and stick your neck out as far as the Browns have then all you can hope for is that the stars align and you win it all because anything less is unacceptable.
What are Watson’s strengths as a QB?
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
You still don’t get it!
It’s not about the coach deciding in this scenario with Watson. It is Watson deciding to what he wants to do. That is what Stefanski said.
All your comparables aren’t applicable.
Tell me when the player decides what he will and will not do and not the coach.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Watson holds all the cards.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Every franchise qb holds the keys. If he's not a franchise caliber like Baker or someone else, they don't . Qb's have always had power over coaches. Who you think got Reeves ran out of Denver? You think they conveniently fired Fox after all those records Manning set while in Denver?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Oh, I see you now. Because of the way things went down, you're going to attempt to say he doesn't have franchise caliber strengths? Argue with yourself
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. Argue with yourself
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Thats every qb in the nfl,correct? Isn't it all about the superbowl as many want to proclaim? As is winning a superbowl isn't a team award. Joe Flacco had 1 great postseason aided by a bonehead misplay by the safety and has a sb ring. Eli Manning is .500 as a qb but had 2 great defensive efforts vs BB led squad and have 2 rings. I don't judge qb greatness by rings, never have, and I'm not starting now. Whether Elway won a ring or not, he was the greatest qb ever to me based on those teams and offense he drug to playoffs and the superbowl. Can anyone other than football nuts name those 80s Broncos rbs and wrs and defensive players? I can name those 80s 49ers squads though and point to the fact they never rinished lower than 5 in defense during the 80s. In my opinion, getting your team in the playoffs consistently and having a chance at a run to the superbowl is a success for any qb. In the 4 years as qb of the Texans, what team was superbowl worthy when Watson was the qb? I will wait.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Although we differ on the ability of Watson, in your opinion, do you think that offense O'Brien ran was conducive to team success especially at the qb? I don't especially the way we saw how a modified offense ran as a rookie yielded better results.
You alleged B.O.B couldn’t tailor the offense to Watson strengths. That was what YOU said. So, what are his strengths as a QB?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Any team with a star qb that happens…its just largely unspoken and understood by the coach. If the coach doesnt acquiesce, The coach usually gets fired..or in the case THIS year, the star qb goes.
The offense Carroll wanted to continue to run vs what Wilson wanted to run is the reported reason why Wilson left Seattle.
Aaron Rodgers’ long running saga with the Packers is largely in part b/c he 1st had issues with McCarthy and the offensive playcalling…that has same issue has continued to spill over with Lafluer at times.
Manning reportedly chose Denver b/c he was pretty much guaranteed by Fox & Elway that he was going to be able to run “his” offense.
Hell it is reported Brady leveraged his coming out of retirement to get the McKays to move on from Arians b/c he didnt care for Arians input on the offense.
just b/c Stefanski articulated that arrangement doesnt mean DW4 went to him and said “i aint running that so u might as well scrap it”. Just probably asked for his input
Mangler
Toro de España
I don’t even think The GOAT (Tom Brady) himself would have had any success running O’Brien’s pathetic excuse of an offense. With that said, I never believed Derapist was good enough to put the team on his shoulders and win us a championship. You know, like franchise QBs are expected to…
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I dont get this…contradictory statements. On 1 hand you say that Brady couldnt have had success, but then say that DW4 wasnt good enough to lead the team to a championship ………..with him only ever really playing under with the same guy you say wouldve hampered even the GOAT from doing anything.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Post 5259.
I asked the question of what QB would have say prior to winning a Superbowl. You gave 3 HOF QBs and the GOAT.
Wilson left after not getting his way. Are you really comparing Manning, Rodgers and Brady to Watson? SMH.
And you are cutting a person a lot of slack and giving them the benefit of the doubt who hasn’t proven that they are worth it.
That also leads to the difference of interpretation of statements. A person with 22 sexual assault allegations, rumors proving more factual than false, and the overwhelming example of not keeping his word. I could go on.
You keep believing in him though.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Russ wanted out b/c he was no longer feeling how Carroll wanted to continue to run the offense. The whole “let Russ cook” campaign & him making controversial statements about where he’d like to play “if” he was traded was all born out of his passive aggressive way of protesting that. So yeah you are right about Wilson..he didnt get his way with how he wanted the offense to go, so he basically forced his way out without outright putting it out in the media..it was all handled behind closed doors basically.
Peyton Manning came in the league pretty much having that say well before he won a SB.
Vick pretty much did too once he got on the field and did damage his rookie year. That “DVD” offense with Warrick Dunn, Vick and TJ Duckett wasnt what Reeves wanted to run, it was setup around what Vick likely told them what he was comfy with.
So your premise is wrong on its face. its not really tied to winning SB’s..its tied to your talent and what the coaches BELIEVE you can do ……if you’ve already shown that you’re a baller at the position and can win.
So…yes i am comparing DW4 to them…..but only as a qb who is viewed by league personnel as a dynamic enough talent at the position to get a team to the promised land…
& regardless of what y’all think about him, its CRYSTAL CLEAR to people in league circles whose livelihoods are on the line that he DEFINITELY is a guy talented enough to maybe listen to his input about what he likes to run, not run and accordingly adjust it or cut it out the playbook entirely.
Dont see how its so hard to admit to and understand that.
its not a matter of “believing him” so much as it is this is just what happens with star qbs period…its just often not spoken on in the manner Stefanski spoke to it.
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