Texansballer74
The Marine
I raise your wow and add a double wow. Dang it boy.Wow! If this isn't an online article you copied, I have to give you credit for the effort and details.
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I raise your wow and add a double wow. Dang it boy.Wow! If this isn't an online article you copied, I have to give you credit for the effort and details.
disagree. He was at the facility doing all the workouts they put forth, but they didn't play him. We've also seen guys not on the ir, coming of inury get traded. They never put Tunsil on the season ending IR yet he didn't play after the wrist injury.One very big factor in not forcing him to play, it would have to have happened before the regular season or he would be worthless for at least half of the season. And if he feigned injury in preseason, he would have had to be placed on IR with no chance of being designated to return the rest of the season. A player on IR cannot be traded. He needed to simply ride the pine to be able to be tradeable during the 2021 season.
It is not so much pessimism as it is a detest for incompetence. I refer you to post #634.Alternate viewpoint - Nick tried desperately to rectify varying degrees of pain points in a situation he inherited, not created. Then was humble enough to cut bait and move on once those minor decisions for situations he did not create did not pan out. I care little about the coaching hires made, give me the 2022 and 2023 draft before my jury is out in NC.
I get the appeal and the self gratification that goes along with taking the non-homer position, but dang that’s some fine pessimism if I’ve ever seen it.
It is not so much pessimism as it is a detest for incompetence. I refer you to post #634.
No matter how odd it does show a certain amount of dedication to one’s opinion. I just have too much to do to be that invested in this team or the adoration or criticism of someone attached to the team. I mean good for him, you’re certainly not changing his mind and he‘s dedicated to his dislike of NC.Wow! If this isn't an online article you copied, I have to give you credit for the effort and details.
Workout doesn't equate to forcing him to play.disagree. He was at the facility doing all the workouts they put forth, but they didn't play him. We've also seen guys not on the ir, coming of inury get traded. They never put Tunsil on the season ending IR yet he didn't play after the wrist injury.
NC probably knows it too - He would be just as keen to give him the help he needs to succeed as we are. It would solve our issue at QB and this franchise will be on its way to turning it's fortunes around ahead of schedule.I saw the Texans get at least another 1st When someone gets DESPERATE and reach for Malik Willis. Steelers, Panthers, Saints, Seattle?
If Davis Mills becomes a top 10-15 QB within 2 years, Caserio will look like a GENIUS.
Exactly. Once the criminal charges were nullified, no one cared about the civil suits. No one.
In our heads, we think it was a factor & so we shape our expectations.
Nobody cared that Watson didn’t play last season & was threatening not to play in 2023.
In Houston we saw those as issues, problems, hurdles. Everyone else saw opportunity.
They were falling over each other to give us three 1s
Wow! If this isn't an online article you copied, I have to give you credit for the effort and details.
Good point
Except, at every opportunity Nick chose the objectively worse decision.
6 teams were ready to give Nick three 1st round picks. Nobody is a bit hyperbole, but for all intents & purposes, it fits.
Right. The mistake was thinking those people would be at the negotiating table
I believe he did. Like I said, he asked for what he wanted. He got what he wanted. I don’t have any complaints about the deal.
My argument is that the way it was done was not the only way to do it, Watson didn’t put Nick in a box, & the Texans weren’t hamstrung because of the civil cases or Watson’s “leverage”
There was most likely some self imposed internal reasoning why the Texans did it this way, but I can’t think of a good reason.
A team like Cleveland, built to win now, and making a trade like this going all in to win now should absolutely care about the civil suites and any effect they might have on the length of Watsons suspension.
If he's suspended for the majority of 2022, it's basically a lost a season for them, and their Super Bowl hopes.
What does their salary capabilities look like in 2023? What will their roster look like?
They should definitely care about every aspect that might impact Watsons availability.
Exactly. It’s like they said grab your ankles & the Texans didn’t ask why until they felt something was out of place.
you won’t ever see anything like this again unless the Texans piss off another QB.
I’m sorry, I don’t see how this supports the argument that this situation was handled appropriatelyThe owner should've stepped in and fired Carroll and kept Wilson.
NC probably knows it too - He would be just as keen to give him the help he needs to succeed as we are. It would solve our issue at QB and this franchise will be on its way to turning it's fortunes around ahead of schedule.
If Mills is not the guy, well the search will be on.
I hope Mills is the guy or we might be handing back those firsts to get one here.
You know that's sound like a good plan and for all we know it's exactly how Casserio approached it but perhaps Watson & agent said no way unless we do it our way we are sitting out an entire second year.Here's a list of teams that want you. Scratch off the teams you won't play for. & if it's only one team left, you write another list.
I feel ya, but then again, if the team is well rounded with a good D and O, you don't really need an elite guy to win - sure it helps, but where you gonna get an elite guy?By planning or by luck Texans actually are in a pretty good spot QB wise. If Mills turns out to be good then great we are set and can focus on other areas. If he turns out to suck then great we should have a high draft pick and we have additional capital to move up in what is suppose to be a strong QB class next year. Really the only bad direction this could go is if Mills gets injured before we really can get a look at him or he falls into that Derek Carr, Tony Romo type category where they are good enough that you can't say move on from them but never seem good enough to get you to the next level.
It's much more difficult to finding a Russell Wilson as opposed to a Pete Carroll. Russell got tired of the conservative game plans in which it's reported, the Seahawks just wanted to stay close and try to win at the end. They could've fired Carroll and Schneider and hired Pedersen and a gm. Russ has been carrying that team for a minute.I’m sorry, I don’t see how this supports the argument that this situation was handled appropriately
You don’t get paid if you refuse to play. The threat of hey we’re not trading you unless you agree to waive your NTC for a minimum of 4 teams off your choosing. You don’t seem to understand that the NTC isn’t the ultimate trump card. Again Watson wants to play NOW. He doesn’t want to miss another year. Nick should’ve held his feet to the fire. It’s a matter of principle and his sorry ass would of been forced to play or deal with us in a fair manner. Whatever it doesn’t matter now that ***** is gone and good riddance. I’m tired of talking about that loser. Hopefully he goes to Cleveland and fails miserably and those next two draft picks are in the top ten.TK this is where you’re not getting have the waiver of the NTC works. It’s not actually waived until the NFL approves the trade, it’s not even waived right now. Watson could still invoke it right up until the league approves the trade and he is officially a Brown.
Watson could have told Caserio “I’ll waive it for these 3 teams, get the best deal you can.” and the only thing that could enforce it is Watson being a man of his word. We’ve already seen he’s not. Reality is Caserio only had two moves to play, the first was not letting teams talk to Watson unless they met his ante up price, which he did. The next is nix all the trades, keep Watson on the roster, watch him not play again while this time getting a huge paycheck and let this nightmare continue another year.
Which would you have really rather he do?
How can we be surprised by anything from a league that hardly covers itself in glory when it comes to standing up for the rights of women?
You don’t get paid if you refuse to play. The threat of hey we’re not trading you unless you agree to waive your NTC for a minimum of 4 teams off your choosing. You don’t seem to understand that the NTC isn’t the ultimate trump card. Again Watson wants to play NOW. He doesn’t want to miss another year. Nick should’ve held his feet to the fire. It’s a matter of principle and his sorry ass would of been forced to play or deal with us in a fair manner. Whatever it doesn’t matter now that ***** is gone and good riddance. I’m tired of talking about that loser. Hopefully he goes to Cleveland and fails miserably and those next two draft picks are in the top ten.
I don’t agree with this. NC asked a minimum of three firsts and that probably eliminated all but four teams from serious consideration. Not picking in the first round for about the next third of a decade presents roster problems for suitors (look at our pain last year x 3). The Texans were only getting four teams to bump up against the Texans trade expectations. Therefore a trade under these conditions isn’t a free for all. There is a market because there are obstacles on both sides and it looked like a four team market. Like it or not contract negotiations were always a factor in this trade Also. you can leave them out of the negotiations but they never are gone. That every team knows a new contract must be written helps to shape an offer and there was a very real chance that it would have because many teams don’t have the roster support for this trade but they would dangle the money. In that event teams would now be dictating to the Texans what the market is knowing that DW would waive for the money. In the end this is what happened, really. The Browns had the roster but still DW didn’t want to go there. They dangled the money and he went. All along this trade crept to this conclusion only because of the Browns roster and franchise paralyzing contract. And the Texans set the market and capitalized. Any other outcome didn’t, couldn’t have worked out better for them. And don’t forget teams know they will probably lose one fifth of his value under suspension, almost a first round draft choice for every year he plays.I think it's this kind of thinking that limited what the Texans got.
Nick set the table at three 1st round picks & two additional pieces. He didn't have to be so vague on the two additional pieces, or the three 1s to tell you the truth.
Granted "everyone" thought Nick was asking too much.
Hindsight, Nick should have asked for more.
But... the real kicker was the contract negotiations. That should have never been allowed. That's what pushed Carolina & Atlanta from the table.
Hindsight, if it was only allowed that a team agree to negotiating a new contract, maybe specifying the scope.
But this deal being held up on guaranteeing 3rd & 4th years? That's ridiculous
Like you though I'm tired of talking about this. I have explain 4 times now how NTCs work but it doesn't fit the narrative of the "Texans are idiots and anyone else could do better" so whatever.
Exactly. Even the media kept talking about the NTC being waived for several teams. I just shook my head at their ignorance.First Watson never technically refused to play, saying you don't want to play another down and actually violating your contract by not doing it are two different things. Second you don't seem to understand how NTCs work. Watson could have said "I'll waive my NTC for these 4 teams." and the only thing that would enforce it is his personal honor and integrity of which he has none. The NTC wasn't actually waived till yesterday when he officially became a Brown, before that time he could have back out and invoked his NTC. Its like if you buy a car, you may hash it out with the salesman to get whatever price you both agree on but you are actually obligated to pay till you go into the office and sign the paperwork. As far as him wanting to play now I have no idea why you think he wasn't happy to ride the pine and get his free money. He certainly hasn't acted like someone who values being competitive above all else.
Like you though I'm tired of talking about this. I have explain 4 times now how NTCs work but it doesn't fit the narrative of the "Texans are idiots and anyone else could do better" so whatever.
Lol This is the last time I’m responding to any of this dumb bullshit. Caserio had the key it was simple. The one thing Watson wants the most is getting back on the field. In any negotiation the key component is what is the desire of the two parties. If you can block the other persons desire you have he upper hand. All Nick had to do was say this is how it’s going down so that it’s fair to both of us or you’ll be the third string QB on this team for the remainder of your contract. We’re in a rebuild mode so I’ll eat your money and pile up draft picks for the next four years. And if you don’t come in and abide by your contract I’ll fine you to death.A team cannot suspend (which is without pay) a player..........they can fine him..............and they can make him inactive for a very limited period of time as a team punishment. Technically, Watson could have had a "back problem" anytime preseason, and he would have been placed on IR and thus not be eligible for designation to return anytime for the season...............easily repeated each year if he wanted.............and team would have had to pay him throughout (further increasing the dead money). Caserio didn't have the key to the Watson issue.
But the NFL did. I haven't heard anything mentioned about what I am about to present.
From the NFL Personal Conduct Policy:
"In investigating a potential violation, the league may rely on information obtained by law enforcement agencies, court records, or independent investigations conducted at the direction of the NFL. League and team employees including players are required to cooperate in any such investigation and are obligated to be fully responsive and truthful in responding to requests from investigators for information (testimony, documents, physical evidence, or other information) that may bear on whether the Policy has been violated. A failure to cooperate with an investigation or to be truthful in responding to inquiries will be separate grounds for disciplinary action. Players who are interviewed in the course of an investigation may be accompanied by an NFLPA representative as provided by Article 51, Section 11 of the CBA.
Because the Fifth Amendment’s protection against self-incrimination does not apply in a workplace investigation, the league will reserve the right to compel a player to cooperate in its investigations even when he is the target of a pending law enforcement investigation or proceeding. A player’s refusal to speak to a league investigator under such circumstances will not preclude an investigation from proceeding or discipline from being imposed. "
***********************************************************************************
During depositions prior to the Grand Jury, Watson legally pleaded the fifth. With the Grand Jury, Watson was not made to appear because Hardin made it clear that it would be a waste of the Grand Jury's time, since Watson would take his legal opportunity again to plead the 5th. The Grand Jury made its decision without being able to question and get answers to their questions. Had the NFL called him in at any time, Watson could not have hidden behind the shield of the fifth amendment.
Goodell and the League allowed this charade of justice to go on unchallenged.........that ultimately led to the arrogance creating the fiasco that led to a ridiculously exorbitant contract structured in order to avoid significant impending well-deserved monetary portion of punishment ................and adversely severely affected not only the Texans, but also so many other teams, owners, quarterbacks and other players.............in fact, the entire League.
No, Caserio didn't have the key............the NFL League office did all along.
Agreed. But I addressed this already. Let him sit out. Don’t pay him, tie his money up in litigation.but perhaps Watson & agent said no way unless we do it our way we are sitting out an entire second year.
The three 1st round picks did not limit this to 4 teams. Six teams were ready to give them up, but Watson shut two down.I don’t agree with this. NC asked a minimum of three firsts and that probably eliminated all but four teams from serious consideration.
no. Contract negotiations never should have been a part of this. I point to Russell Wilson & Matthew Stafford.Like it or not contract negotiations were always a factor in this trade
No. You said it better.Where was all the teeth gnashing and cries of THAT'S NOT ENOUGH back last year when NC first made his requirements of trading Watson known? When he asked for 3 1st round picks plus, no one thought he could get it. Then when teams stepped up and met his offer, he kept his word. It was up to the teams to convince Watson to come play for them, they had no more negotiating to do with the Texans. They met the Texans price but only Cleveland refused to take Watson's initial no and kept after him and got him by offering a ridiculous contract that has changed the landscape of the NFL and enraged thousands if not millions
Dejaview beat me to the punch and said it better
That’s what I meant to sayInstead, you let Watson run the entire freaking show from start to finish like he's a high school recruit. It's absolutely pathetic
This is exactly my point. The Texans should pay him. They are obligated to pay him.One other thing, the suggestion that if Watson refused to play, the team can refuse to pay him. It doesn't work that way either. A complaint must be made. It will probably eventually go to arbitration after being initially evaluated by the League. It can take anywhere from a month or two to several months for the empaneling of the arbitrator, as it must be acceptable to both parties. Then arbitration can take several months. One drawback to the process is the lack of a formal evidence process. This lack means you are relying on the skill and experience of the arbitrator to sort out the evidence, rather than a judge or jury. No interrogatories or depositions are taken, and no discovery process is included in arbitration. If there is dissatisfaction with the decision, an appeal can be filed by either party. And the empaneling and procedures can take another extended period of time. Then if either party is dissatisfied especially in such a high-profile case, it can be taken to the courts by one of the parties.
That was the point of my "dumb bull **** post"..............it would serve neither side well.This is exactly my point. The Texans should pay him. They are obligated to pay him.
But they don’t have to. Just like any of us aren’t forced at gun point to pay any one.
The Texans would be in the wrong.
But the money will not be in a DeShaun Watson account until after arbitration.
May not be ethical. But that’s ok
Contract he was on was never a selling point. He already turned the Browns down. The contract negotiation was THE selling point… and it moved the trade to match the Texans pre-existing terms. Are you suggesting that teams would give up more for a contract they knew was going to have to be enhanced in order to land the guy, lol. The three firsts obviously limited the trade to a narrow market, those willing to both make the historical offer and renegotiate his contract to a ridiculous level.The three 1st round picks did not limit this to 4 teams. Six teams were ready to give them up, but Watson shut two down.
no. Contract negotiations never should have been a part of this. I point to Russell Wilson & Matthew Stafford.
The contract he was on should have been a selling point. Especially after Rodgers mega deal.
You’re probably more familiar with Watson’s financials than I am. I would think holding his money would motivate him. But I’m a dumb *** so what do I know?That was the point of my "dumb **** post"..............it would serve neither side well.
signed,
THE DUMB ****
Yep and I bet you don’t have a nose and you got a bullet hole in each foot.Agreed. But I addressed this already. Let him sit out. Don’t pay him, tie his money up in litigation.
it’s only a cap issue after that. The Texans should be willing to weather the cap issue to get the best return on Watson
Because of the way the Texans handled it, yes. The contract was always a factor.Contract he was on was never a selling point. He already turned the Browns down. The contract negotiation was THE selling point… and it moved the trade to match the Texans pre-existing terms. Are you suggesting that teams would give up more for a contract they knew was going to have to be enhanced in order to land the guy, lol. The three firsts obviously limited the trade to a narrow market, those willing to both make the historical offer and renegotiate his contract to a ridiculous level.
I’m just glad the dude is out of Houston and now he’s the Cleveland Browns problem. Not only did this dude quit on this team, him and his team made the Texans out to be the bad guys. So many people I know truly believes Watson was in a bad situation playing for the Texans. Especially my people ( black folks) believe they set him up. Now they’re cheering that’s what I’m talking about. Get your money son. Not only did him and his agent F over the Texans, they screwed all over the NFL. You have players like Lebron congratulating this dude for what he just received.
Ouch. You got me with that ad hominem.Yep and I bet you don’t have a nose and you got a bullet hole in each foot.
So why didn’t they guarantee those years after he turned him down instead of going off the deep end. DW wouldn’t have known what they were willing to do.Because of the way the Texans handled it, yes. The contract was always a factor.
If the Texans handled the trade the way Seattle did, or Detroit did, or any other NFL team ever did, no. Shouldn’t have been a factor.
I didn’t even know the contract was an issue until we heard about Carolina refusing to guarantee the 3rd & 4th year.
I assume Cleveland didn’t know either otherwise they would have guaranteed the 3rd & 4th year when they first met with him & saved some money.
Why didn’t they offer him $230M before he turned them down?So why didn’t they guarantee those years after he turned him down instead of going off the deep end. DW wouldn’t have known what they were willing to do.
No. Why didn’t they guarantee his full contract after he turned them down but before offering him that stupid as **** contract?Why didn’t they offer him $230M before he turned them down?
You’re better at this than I am. I don’t know what we’re arguing anymore.No. Why didn’t they guarantee his full contract after he turned them down but before offering him that stupid as **** contract?
Those that keep on trying to compare Watson's situation with Wilson's better review Wilson's previous contract a little closer.
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