Texansballer74
The Marine
I raise your wow and add a double wow. Dang it boy.
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What Grade Did Caserio Get on Watson Trade?
- Thread starter TexansBull
- Start date
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
disagree. He was at the facility doing all the workouts they put forth, but they didn't play him. We've also seen guys not on the ir, coming of inury get traded. They never put Tunsil on the season ending IR yet he didn't play after the wrist injury.
Texian
Hall of Fame
It is not so much pessimism as it is a detest for incompetence. I refer you to post #634.
Incompotence?
lol
Dude we received 3 FIRST round picks a third and a fourth for a player that quit and refused to play for us all the while having a suspension and who knows what other legal issues in his future.
I’m as happy as Watson finding a hooker with 8 inch fingers right now!
Texazan
Our HOF 34
No matter how odd it does show a certain amount of dedication to one’s opinion. I just have too much to do to be that invested in this team or the adoration or criticism of someone attached to the team. I mean good for him, you’re certainly not changing his mind and he‘s dedicated to his dislike of NC.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Workout doesn't equate to forcing him to play.
And if a player is placed on IR prior to the first day of the regular season (as opposed to being placed on IR after the beginning of the season) he is ineligible for designation to return............he must remain on IR for the rest of the season..........and cannot be traded during that season.
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
I see the Texans get at least another 1st When someone gets DESPERATE and reach for Malik Willis. Steelers, Panthers, Saints, Seattle?
If Davis Mills becomes a top 10-15 QB within 2 years, Caserio will look like a GENIUS.
If Davis Mills becomes a top 10-15 QB within 2 years, Caserio will look like a GENIUS.
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Texansphan
Football connoisseur
NC probably knows it too - He would be just as keen to give him the help he needs to succeed as we are. It would solve our issue at QB and this franchise will be on its way to turning it's fortunes around ahead of schedule.
If Mills is not the guy, well the search will be on.
I hope Mills is the guy or we might be handing back those firsts to get one here.
Since this was the 2nd time in NFL history three 1sts were traded, no Caserio didn't get played. He also didn't get the 2 players on their rookie deals included in the deal. So yes, Caserio did a good job and the Browns met in the middle by giving up a 3rd and doing a pick swap. A good deal, even if Caserio didn't get everything he wanted. You hardly ever get everything you want in a negotiation. Such is life.
And the cap will be fine next offseaon
He got fair, not the awesome value YOU think he should've gotten in the Derrick/Roby trades. Roby's value (Pick # 80) was fair value. IMHO
I didn't like the DJ or Murray re-signing.
I didn't mind the Tunsil/Cooke re-structures. Caserio looks at them as part of the re-build. You dont.
All of the other moves are minor moves.
Has he, the team is well setup for the future. In a much better place than before he got here. After next season the Calhoun's are going to be really well setup for the future. Rome wasn't built in a day.
The bean counters for some reason seem to think the Calhoun's are doomed because of the cap. I'm here to spread the good news, the Calhoun's will be atleast 118 mil under the cap and the cap is going to go way up, I would expect the the Calhoun's to have around 140-150 mil in cap space with atleast 4-7 cheap diffence makers and another 3-4 solid starter level guys out of the next 2 drafts. Then you have the 2024 draft, where you still have 2 more 1st rd picks.
Really all of this comes down to Mills and whether he becomes a franchise QB, which I think he can become.
I'm sure Janice/Calhoun put Caserio in a box almost as much as Derrick did.
Do you actually think the Browns are going to win a SB in the next 2-3 yrs? Heck they will be lucky to win their division.
The last sentence in you post is hilarious. This will be the end of the NTC's though. Derrick is who he is and was only pissed off because the McNair's wouldn't back his perverted azz.
If Mills ends up being the franchis
I’m sorry, I don’t see how this supports the argument that this situation was handled appropriately
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
By planning or by luck Texans actually are in a pretty good spot QB wise. If Mills turns out to be good then great we are set and can focus on other areas. If he turns out to suck then great we should have a high draft pick and we have additional capital to move up in what is suppose to be a strong QB class next year. Really the only bad direction this could go is if Mills gets injured before we really can get a look at him or he falls into that Derek Carr, Tony Romo type category where they are good enough that you can't say move on from them but never seem good enough to get you to the next level.
You know that's sound like a good plan and for all we know it's exactly how Casserio approached it but perhaps Watson & agent said no way unless we do it our way we are sitting out an entire second year.
Thing is we don't what happened but we are all free to guess and speculate just as you are doing, and as I'm doing.
There's atleast one, maybe a couple of people on this Board who know or will learn the truth and perhaps they will pass it along to the rest of the Board, I sure hope so.
In the meantime do as the rest of are doing which is for the first time in years enjoy our new version of the Houston Texans, the one without the giant pain in the azz Deshawn Watson and also look forward to a Draft next month with us for the first time in years with picks in both the first and second round.
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Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I feel ya, but then again, if the team is well rounded with a good D and O, you don't really need an elite guy to win - sure it helps, but where you gonna get an elite guy?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
It's much more difficult to finding a Russell Wilson as opposed to a Pete Carroll. Russell got tired of the conservative game plans in which it's reported, the Seahawks just wanted to stay close and try to win at the end. They could've fired Carroll and Schneider and hired Pedersen and a gm. Russ has been carrying that team for a minute.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Money Is Only Part of the Price the Browns Will Pay for Watson
Cleveland guaranteed Deshaun Watson $230 million over five years. The cost to their reputation as he fights accusations of sexual misconduct will be harder to calculate.
By Kurt Streeter
March 21, 2022, 12:01 a.m. ET
Cleveland Browns, he’s your problem now.
You courted Deshaun Watson, took him in and handed him the fattest guaranteed contract in N.F.L. history, despite his tarnished reputation and the many women who have accused him of sexual misconduct during massage sessions.
Now, for all of his sublime talents at quarterback, you must also deal with the storm cloud he creates.
It will keep looming, foreboding and unavoidable, despite a grand jury decision on March 11 to forgo bringing criminal charges against him.
Watson’s legal battles continue. Twenty-two civil suits alleging abuse remain.
Even if Watson, 26, avoids a civil trial and settles those cases by paying his accusers, cutting a deal so they’ll keep quiet — common practice when wealthy, powerful men face a cavalcade of horrible accusations — few will forget.
This is a complex situation, filled with questions that we’ve grown all too accustomed to in sports. And like so many things in modern life, it will divide.
Many fans will stick firmly behind Watson. They will point to the grand jury decision and say the quarterback was wronged by his accusers. They will wholeheartedly believe Watson’s claims of innocence, just as they believe the explanation of his lawyer, who has acknowledged that, yes, there were consensual encounters between Watson and some of the 22 women who filed suits against him, but whatever happened was “mutually desired.”
Those fans, trapped, perhaps, by the allure of stardom in a world where athletic icons are too often viewed as nearly infallible gods, will say it is time to move on.
But plenty more will remember and are likely never to forgive. Instead, they will look at the whole picture: the cascade of claims from accusers who came forward with stories of Watson exposing himself, or touching the women with his genitals, or ejaculating on them. Three of the criminal complaints alleged either sexual assault or attempted sexual assault.
That’s a pattern. It is disturbing, to say the least.
Contempt will understandably stick to the Cleveland Browns for good, no matter how “humble, sincere and candid” the team owners found him in interviews, and no matter how well the team performs on the field.
And the N.F.L., which once again has shown that it is ready to put profit and winning above all else, will face yet another reckoning.
It’s well known that claims of sexual abuse are difficult to prove in the criminal courts, particularly when there is little to no physical evidence and the alleged acts took place in private. But once Watson’s criminal case ended, plenty of N.F.L. teams were ready to move on as if his accusers hadn’t spoken with troubling consistency about what happened to them.
With Watson’s longtime team, the Houston Texans, looking to trade away its star quarterback the moment the criminal case concluded, the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints all jumped into the recruiting mix with Cleveland.
These teams were eager to discuss trading their integrity for a chance to build a winner with Watson. They couldn’t help themselves, couldn’t wait to see what would become of the civil cases. They disregarded victims and their accounts.
Yes, Cleveland got him. But if you are a fan, an employee or an owner of a team that went after Watson, well, remember the old saying: Sometimes the best prayers are those that go unanswered. That now applies to you.
In Cleveland, it will be a different story. Watson initially spurned the Browns, but the team beckoned with a deal so lavish it seemed intended to coat him in a patina of respectability: five years, $230 million, every dollar guaranteed.
Roger Goodell, the league commissioner, could have looked at all of the publicly known allegations and decided enough was enough. He could have sent a strong message by putting Watson on leave for violating the N.F.L.’s conduct policy — no matter what happens in the legal fight.
Goodell hasn’t done that.
Instead, from N.F.L. headquarters, we hear that the league is still conducting its own investigation — molasses slow when the signal sent by decisive action is warranted.
How can we be surprised by anything from a league that hardly covers itself in glory when it comes to standing up for the rights of women?
THE REST OF THE STORY
You don’t get paid if you refuse to play. The threat of hey we’re not trading you unless you agree to waive your NTC for a minimum of 4 teams off your choosing. You don’t seem to understand that the NTC isn’t the ultimate trump card. Again Watson wants to play NOW. He doesn’t want to miss another year. Nick should’ve held his feet to the fire. It’s a matter of principle and his sorry ass would of been forced to play or deal with us in a fair manner. Whatever it doesn’t matter now that ***** is gone and good riddance. I’m tired of talking about that loser. Hopefully he goes to Cleveland and fails miserably and those next two draft picks are in the top ten.
Yep, apparently words are worse than actions. Gruden gets suspended for life for disgusting things he said in emails, while DW will probably get slapped on the wrist for disgusting actions he did.
I guess if he had to land somewhere the "Browns" are fitting for a P.O.S.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
First Watson never technically refused to play, saying you don't want to play another down and actually violating your contract by not doing it are two different things. Second you don't seem to understand how NTCs work. Watson could have said "I'll waive my NTC for these 4 teams." and the only thing that would enforce it is his personal honor and integrity of which he has none. The NTC wasn't actually waived till yesterday when he officially became a Brown, before that time he could have back out and invoked his NTC. Its like if you buy a car, you may hash it out with the salesman to get whatever price you both agree on but you are actually obligated to pay till you go into the office and sign the paperwork. As far as him wanting to play now I have no idea why you think he wasn't happy to ride the pine and get his free money. He certainly hasn't acted like someone who values being competitive above all else.
Like you though I'm tired of talking about this. I have explain 4 times now how NTCs work but it doesn't fit the narrative of the "Texans are idiots and anyone else could do better" so whatever.
Dejaview
All Pro
I don’t agree with this. NC asked a minimum of three firsts and that probably eliminated all but four teams from serious consideration. Not picking in the first round for about the next third of a decade presents roster problems for suitors (look at our pain last year x 3). The Texans were only getting four teams to bump up against the Texans trade expectations. Therefore a trade under these conditions isn’t a free for all. There is a market because there are obstacles on both sides and it looked like a four team market. Like it or not contract negotiations were always a factor in this trade Also. you can leave them out of the negotiations but they never are gone. That every team knows a new contract must be written helps to shape an offer and there was a very real chance that it would have because many teams don’t have the roster support for this trade but they would dangle the money. In that event teams would now be dictating to the Texans what the market is knowing that DW would waive for the money. In the end this is what happened, really. The Browns had the roster but still DW didn’t want to go there. They dangled the money and he went. All along this trade crept to this conclusion only because of the Browns roster and franchise paralyzing contract. And the Texans set the market and capitalized. Any other outcome didn’t, couldn’t have worked out better for them. And don’t forget teams know they will probably lose one fifth of his value under suspension, almost a first round draft choice for every year he plays.
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Where was all the teeth gnashing and cries of THAT'S NOT ENOUGH back last year when NC first made his requirements of trading Watson known? When he asked for 3 1st round picks plus, no one thought he could get it. Then when teams stepped up and met his offer, he kept his word. It was up to the teams to convince Watson to come play for them, they had no more negotiating to do with the Texans. They met the Texans price but only Cleveland refused to take Watson's initial no and kept after him and got him by offering a ridiculous contract that has changed the landscape of the NFL and enraged thousands if not millions
Dejaview beat me to the punch and said it better
Dejaview beat me to the punch and said it better
Porky
Hall of Fame
I was completely out of pocket all weekend, so only seen a few posts in here, but I'll add my 2.4 cents even though I'm late to the party.
My grade is D+.
Wilson brought way more as a total package for a guy that's 7 years older. The first rounders after this year are likely to be bottom 1/3 of the first round.
You traded a known quantity without getting a single known quantity back. Huge mistake. He needed at least one current young player back. Seattle got Noah Fant. Where was our Noah Fant? He only got one pick in year one - the one time where you know where you are picking, didn't get a single #2, etc.
The 4th swap is a completely pointless part of the trade. Big whoop. The 3rd should have been a 2nd and this year.
And with no known quantities on the way back, that puts the entire onus of the success of this trade on the Texans ability to pick 3 studs 3 years in a row. Because anything less than 3 total studs back is an absolute joke for a young top 5 QB. Can Nick go 3 for 3 - he must get 3 pro-bowlers back. Anything less is a failure so he has put the entire pressure on 3 future unknowns. Stupid and silly.
But the part that really makes me lower this grade to a D+ is how he let Watson and Mulugheta run roughshod over the organization. From start to finish, Watson and team drove the car while Nick was somewhere back in the back seat picking his nose while reading Archie comic books. Nick should have told Watson look we have X number of teams that are interested in you. Make your calls and visits if you must, but give us a bare min of two teams you will accept a trade to and then we will let you know if we can pull off a trade to one of those teams and we'll let you know when/if you've been traded.
And then you tell Watson to go sit down once you have your 2-4 teams and you go to work playing those teams off each other until you feel you have the best offer.
If Watson says I'm only choosing one team, then fine. Sit your ass down, watch the grass grow or retire. Because you are not running our team, I am.
Instead, you let Watson run the entire freaking show from start to finish like he's a high school recruit. It's absolutely pathetic.
Nick has balls the size of pin heads and this org keeps making mistake after mistake after mistake and it all points back to Janice and Cal.
My grade is D+.
Wilson brought way more as a total package for a guy that's 7 years older. The first rounders after this year are likely to be bottom 1/3 of the first round.
You traded a known quantity without getting a single known quantity back. Huge mistake. He needed at least one current young player back. Seattle got Noah Fant. Where was our Noah Fant? He only got one pick in year one - the one time where you know where you are picking, didn't get a single #2, etc.
The 4th swap is a completely pointless part of the trade. Big whoop. The 3rd should have been a 2nd and this year.
And with no known quantities on the way back, that puts the entire onus of the success of this trade on the Texans ability to pick 3 studs 3 years in a row. Because anything less than 3 total studs back is an absolute joke for a young top 5 QB. Can Nick go 3 for 3 - he must get 3 pro-bowlers back. Anything less is a failure so he has put the entire pressure on 3 future unknowns. Stupid and silly.
But the part that really makes me lower this grade to a D+ is how he let Watson and Mulugheta run roughshod over the organization. From start to finish, Watson and team drove the car while Nick was somewhere back in the back seat picking his nose while reading Archie comic books. Nick should have told Watson look we have X number of teams that are interested in you. Make your calls and visits if you must, but give us a bare min of two teams you will accept a trade to and then we will let you know if we can pull off a trade to one of those teams and we'll let you know when/if you've been traded.
And then you tell Watson to go sit down once you have your 2-4 teams and you go to work playing those teams off each other until you feel you have the best offer.
If Watson says I'm only choosing one team, then fine. Sit your ass down, watch the grass grow or retire. Because you are not running our team, I am.
Instead, you let Watson run the entire freaking show from start to finish like he's a high school recruit. It's absolutely pathetic.
Nick has balls the size of pin heads and this org keeps making mistake after mistake after mistake and it all points back to Janice and Cal.
Bluehen Texan
Waterboy
^^^^This^^^^
Otherwise it sounds like folks are arguing that Watsons faults should have just been ignored. Let’s just pretend that he doesn’t have any blemishes and negotiate from that stand point.
Hey NFL owners I mysteriously want to trade away the best QB available by far. He’s better than anything we can replace him with but we still want to trade him away. We deserve 3 1sts, 2 2nds, a 3rd a 4th and both your best offensive and defensive player. Because we aren’t considering any of his faults or potential negative repercussions and the fans potentially being angered have nothing to do with these negotiations.
And if we don’t get what we want we’re going to show the world how great we are at negotiating by letting this once in a life time QB opportunity ride the pine.
Only after that will we be considered the best negotiators. Anything less is loser mentality and getting bent over and taken advantage of.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Even the media kept talking about the NTC being waived for several teams. I just shook my head at their ignorance.
One other thing, the suggestion that if Watson refused to play, the team can refuse to pay him. It doesn't work that way either. A complaint must be made. It will probably eventually go to arbitration after being initially evaluated by the League. It can take anywhere from a month or two to several months for the empaneling of the arbitrator, as it must be acceptable to both parties. Then arbitration can take several months. One drawback to the process is the lack of a formal evidence process. This lack means you are relying on the skill and experience of the arbitrator to sort out the evidence, rather than a judge or jury. No interrogatories or depositions are taken, and no discovery process is included in arbitration. If there is dissatisfaction with the decision, an appeal can be filed by either party. And the empaneling and procedures can take another extended period of time. Then if either party is dissatisfied especially in such a high-profile case, it can be taken to the courts by one of the parties.
Lol This is the last time I’m responding to any of this dumb bullshit. Caserio had the key it was simple. The one thing Watson wants the most is getting back on the field. In any negotiation the key component is what is the desire of the two parties. If you can block the other persons desire you have he upper hand. All Nick had to do was say this is how it’s going down so that it’s fair to both of us or you’ll be the third string QB on this team for the remainder of your contract. We’re in a rebuild mode so I’ll eat your money and pile up draft picks for the next four years. And if you don’t come in and abide by your contract I’ll fine you to death.
No way Watson wants to play that game after already missing a whole year. But i degrees you guys have it all figured out. So we will all have to agree to disagree. It’s not worth arguing over. He’s gone and I’m moving on to the draft. I’m too old and don’t have the energy or time for this kind of never ending meaningless arguments.
Agreed. But I addressed this already. Let him sit out. Don’t pay him, tie his money up in litigation.
it’s only a cap issue after that. The Texans should be willing to weather the cap issue to get the best return on Watson
The three 1st round picks did not limit this to 4 teams. Six teams were ready to give them up, but Watson shut two down.
no. Contract negotiations never should have been a part of this. I point to Russell Wilson & Matthew Stafford.
The contract he was on should have been a selling point. Especially after Rodgers mega deal.
No. You said it better.
I don’t have a problem with the return. He set his price & got it.
Russell Wilson is not DeShaun Watson, Matt Stafford is not DeShaun Watson. But a QB trade is a QB trade. Russell Wilson had an NTC. Russell Wilson was disgruntled & wanted out.
But the Seahawks dictated the process & it wasn’t anything like the circus the Texans allowed. The Seahawks handled it the way NFL franchises have handled this situation forever. The Texans didn’t.
That’s a problem. That’s the problem Texans fans have been dealing with since 2002.
That’s what I meant to say
This is exactly my point. The Texans should pay him. They are obligated to pay him.
But they don’t have to. Just like any of us aren’t forced at gun point to pay any one.
The Texans would be in the wrong.
But the money will not be in a DeShaun Watson account until after arbitration.
May not be ethical. But that’s ok
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
That was the point of my "dumb bull **** post"..............it would serve neither side well.
signed,
THE DUMB ****
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Dejaview
All Pro
Contract he was on was never a selling point. He already turned the Browns down. The contract negotiation was THE selling point… and it moved the trade to match the Texans pre-existing terms. Are you suggesting that teams would give up more for a contract they knew was going to have to be enhanced in order to land the guy, lol. The three firsts obviously limited the trade to a narrow market, those willing to both make the historical offer and renegotiate his contract to a ridiculous level.
You’re probably more familiar with Watson’s financials than I am. I would think holding his money would motivate him. But I’m a dumb *** so what do I know?
Texansballer74
The Marine
I’m just glad the dude is out of Houston and now he’s the Cleveland Browns problem. Not only did this dude quit on this team, him and his team made the Texans out to be the bad guys. So many people I know truly believes Watson was in a bad situation playing for the Texans. Especially my people ( black folks) believe they set him up. Now they’re cheering that’s what I’m talking about. Get your money son. Not only did him and his agent F over the Texans, they screwed all over the NFL. You have players like Lebron congratulating this dude for what he just received.
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Dejaview
All Pro
Yep and I bet you don’t have a nose and you got a bullet hole in each foot.
Because of the way the Texans handled it, yes. The contract was always a factor.
If the Texans handled the trade the way Seattle did, or Detroit did, or any other NFL team ever did, no. Shouldn’t have been a factor.
I didn’t even know the contract was an issue until we heard about Carolina refusing to guarantee the 3rd & 4th year.
I assume Cleveland didn’t know either otherwise they would have guaranteed the 3rd & 4th year when they first met with him & saved some money.
Be
Believe me the other owners are not only going to make God'ell get a pound of flesh
They're going to revisit this in the next CBA and they're going to give the players the Derrick oily 3 finger butt massage. Even if it means a strike and no football for awhile. You're playing with fire when you screw billionaires over.
Believe me the other owners are not only going to make God'ell get a pound of flesh
They're going to revisit this in the next CBA and they're going to give the players the Derrick oily 3 finger butt massage. Even if it means a strike and no football for awhile. You're playing with fire when you screw billionaires over.
Ouch. You got me with that ad hominem.
I just wish the Texans start conducting business the way NFL teams conduct business.
We’re treading water with this bush league crap.
Seattle just showed us how an NFL team trades a disgruntled QB with a NTC.
Atlanta is about to show us how an NFL team trades a disgruntled QB with a NTC.
The Texans showed us they’re not sitting at the big boy table
Dejaview
All Pro
So why didn’t they guarantee those years after he turned him down instead of going off the deep end. DW wouldn’t have known what they were willing to do.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Nick Caserio did what he had to do gents. I’m just glad the dude is out of Houston and now he’s the Cleveland Browns problem. Not only did this dude quit on this team, him and his team made the Texans out to be the bad guys. So many people I know truly believes Watson was in a bad situation playing for the Texans. Especially my people ( black folks) believe they set him up. Now they’re cheering that’s what I’m talking about. Get your money son. Not only did him and his agent F over the Texans, they screwed all over the NFL. You have players like Lebron congratulating this dude for what he just received.
Why didn’t they offer him $230M before he turned them down?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Those that keep on trying to compare Watson's situation with Wilson's better review Wilson's previous contract a little closer.
Dejaview
All Pro
No. Why didn’t they guarantee his full contract after he turned them down but before offering him that stupid as **** contract?
You’re better at this than I am. I don’t know what we’re arguing anymore.
My response was saying the Browns didn’t know contract negotiations was the issue. When Carolina turned down the 3rd and 4th year guarantee, Cleveland got in on the contract negotiations.
Not to mention that Wilson is a bonafide leader, a better QB, a proven winner, never quit on his team, and by all accounts a much better person.