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How to fix Texans run game?

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
The Texans had a pretty good rushing attack in 2019. 9th in total yards, 8th in yards per attempt.

Our running backs were mainly Carlos Hyde & Duke Johnson. Yes, DW helped as well.

The starting OL was Tunsil, Scharping, Martin, Fulton, and Howard. THREE of those guys are still on the team!!!

In 2020, we ditched Hyde for David Johnson. The rest of the personnel, though, was pretty much the same. The running game went to total crap, 31st in total yards, 19th in yards per attempt.

So... million dollar question. What happened? Is Carlos Hyde that much better than DJ?
Johnson was slow as molasses. I also heard reports that he didn’t grasp concepts very well, even in his All Pro year where he had to be told what to do on nearly every play. He comes here and is supposed to be able to pick up this “complicated” OB offense?

Of course Johnson didn’t really matter much this season. It was mainly Ingram, Lindsay and Burkhead toting the rock and they were all horrible. When you’ve got that many RBs coming in and can’t do jack, I think that leans more towards coaching and scheme.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Yep, you pick Neal at 1-3 and Kinnard at 2-37

Put them on the right side of the OL and they block the sun. The run game issues are solve by the 2 biggest baddest dudes with attitude in this draft. Keep Tunsil for a yr and play Howards bbusty azz at LG and the OL will look alot better.

My question is if you were to do this would you use 3-68 and 4-115 to move up and take Pickens at say 2-45?

At 3-80 I'm looking at CB's GoodrichArmour Davis/Woolen.

This would give me 4 day 1 starters and upgrades.
I would use #2 - 37 on Pickens and #3 - 80 on Allgeier. This would give Mills the targets he needs. Unfortunately, the looming $50MM in dead money (that you say is irrelevant) I would have used to sign an All-Pro Interior Offensive line. RD 1 I'm open to trading back and would be satisfied with Hamilton, Karlaftis, Gardner, Dean. #3 - 68 I've Devonte Wyatt penciled in.
 

pappy

Waterboy
The Texans will not get much for Tunsil . Also doubt that Watson gets traded before the draft. The needs on the defense far outweigh the offense so pick your poison .
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I’ve seen elsewhere people making a case that Howard looks to be the answer at LT.

Not something I was able to notice, but interesting to see how opinion varies on him.
He was avg at best as a RT. He played 1 good game against the Titans at LT and some posters seem to think he's the anawer at LT. This is part of the anybody but Tunsil crowd at LT. If Tunsil is traded and I'm not against trading him, then LT is certainly going to need to be a high priority in this draft.

The way I see Tunsil is that the OL sucked last yr. Tunsil is the best Texans OL and he protects the QB's blindside very well. I dont think on a bad OL it's a good idea to trade your best OL and hope you can draft somebody that can eventually might be as good as Tunsil. I do understand the bean counters point of view, but right now the cap isn't an issue and wont be for a couple of yrs.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I would use #2 - 37 on Pickens and #3 - 80 on Allgeier. This would give Mills the targets he needs. Unfortunately, the looming $50MM in dead money (that you say is irrelevant) I would have used to sign an All-Pro Interior Offensive line. RD 1 I'm open to trading back and would be satisfied with Hamilton, Karlaftis, Gardner, Dean. #3 - 68 I've Devonte Wyatt penciled in.
I like your way of thinking, but who is this all pro interior OL and why would he want to join the Texans as a FA?

You're going to have to improve through the draftthe next couple of yrs before starting to add premium FA's. So my question is would you give up pick #114 if it meant that you could end up with,

Rd.1 Neal
Rd.2 Kinnard
Rd.2 Pickens
Rd.3 Allgeier.

That would solve alot of the issues the Texans had on offense last yr.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
They are different runners. David Johnson is more like Duke Johnson. He's more of a threat out of the backfield. Carlos Hyde is a bigger, stronger version of Burkhead. Hyde hits the hole faster than DJ does, and runs harder. The one advantage Burkhead has over Hyde is that he is a little shiftier than Hyde, and can squeeze through smaller holes.
Johnson was slow as molasses. I also heard reports that he didn’t grasp concepts very well, even in his All Pro year where he had to be told what to do on nearly every play. He comes here and is supposed to be able to pick up this “complicated” OB offense?

Of course Johnson didn’t really matter much this season. It was mainly Ingram, Lindsay and Burkhead toting the rock and they were all horrible. When you’ve got that many RBs coming in and can’t do jack, I think that leans more towards coaching and scheme.
I'm with you guys, we need to upgrade RB.

Tim Kelly's coaching & scheme did a pretty good job running the ball in 2019. I'm not a Kelly fan, but I'm more interested in finding the real reason our running game has sucked the past two seasons.

I keep hearing "fix the OL", "fix the OL". But if you look at 2019, the running game was pretty good with pretty much the same personnel on the OL that was around the last two seasons.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm with you guys, we need to upgrade RB.

Tim Kelly's coaching & scheme did a pretty good job running the ball in 2019. I'm not a Kelly fan, but I'm more interested in finding the real reason our running game has sucked the past two seasons.

I keep hearing "fix the OL", "fix the OL". But if you look at 2019, the running game was pretty good with pretty much the same personnel on the OL that was around the last two seasons.
I'm not looking for pretty good. I'm looking for dominant.

I'm looking to add 2 upgrades to the OL and a couple of high upside RB's in both the draft and FA. Do these things and the run game will be fixed.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I'm not looking for pretty good. I'm looking for dominant.

I'm looking to add 2 upgrades to the OL and a couple of high upside RB's in both the draft and FA. Do these things and the run game will be fixed.
We all want a dominant running game, but to get there, we need to truly understand how we became the worst rushing offense these past two season. We went from a top 10 rushing offense just two seasons ago, to now the worst. To fix the running game, we need to understand what went wrong.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I’ve seen elsewhere people making a case that Howard looks to be the answer at LT.

Not something I was able to notice, but interesting to see how opinion varies on him.
He hasn't played much LT since he got here. They brought Tunsil in the year he was drafted. Probably more of a favor to his buddy Flores.

But he played well at RT until he got hurt. I think they moved him to guard because Christian & Heck are better tackles than McCray is a Guard.

& when Howard was moved to LT he looked pretty good. Some issues with consistency but that's to be expected with the way they've moved him around
 

Texansphan

Football connoisseur
We'll agree to disagree then. Tunsil may have made 2 Pro Bowls, but that doesn't make him better than Howard. Everybody knows those things are just popularity contests. I have never been impressed with Tunsil's run blocking. As I've said, in his limited plays at LT this season, I thought Howard played better. You think Howard is a bust because he is not a great RG or LG. Well, he's not an OG, and shouldn't be playing as one. I would not be remiss if we traded Tunsil for picks, and moved Howard to LT, or drafted a LT and moved Howard back to RT.

If we can get picks for both Tunsil and WD40, we could stay at 3, and pick BPA all the way through the draft, and almost rebuild our team in one season.
A lot comes down to who they bring in as HC. They bring in a decent one and we may see a couple of decent FA's jump on board as well.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
But he played well at RT until he got hurt. I think they moved him to guard because Christian & Heck are better tackles than McCray is a Guard.

& when Howard was moved to LT he looked pretty good. Some issues with consistency but that's to be expected with the way they've moved him around
My assessment as well. I was happy with Howard at RT, and I thought we had pretty good bookends on the line for the new few seasons. The move to guard seemed more out of necessity, and not an effort to find where Howard plays best.

What's the word on Marcus Cannon? He's still under contract. Will he be cut? What can we expect out of him next season?
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
What's the word on Marcus Cannon? He's still under contract. Will he be cut? What can we expect out of him next season?
If the over/under on the number of snaps Cannon gets in 2022 is this year's total (213), I'm taking the under.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
We all want a dominant running game, but to get there, we need to truly understand how we became the worst rushing offense these past two season. We went from a top 10 rushing offense just two seasons ago, to now the worst. To fix the running game, we need to understand what went wrong.
You're over thinking things. IMHO but I understand how people like you think. Some people want to know why. (My wife's brain works this way) Some people dont care why, they are fix the damn problem and move on to the next problem. The main problem is that you will never have a good run game with Howard/Scharping and yes Tunsil on the same OL. You can get by with your LT being an avg run blocker because his main job is to protect the QB's blindside, but the rest of the OL has to be really good atrun blocking to have a dominant run game.

You need to understand 3 things and don't worry about the past.

1.Get 2 of the meanest dudes with great feet on the ol. Neal and Kinnard or Salyer.

2. Then get a RB like Spiller or Allgeier at the top of the 3rd.

3. Get new offensive coordinator review the scheme that was used and make adjustments as necessary.

4. Reap the rewards of your decision to invest in the run game.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Texans will not get much for Tunsil . Also doubt that Watson gets traded before the draft. The needs on the defense far outweigh the offense so pick your poison .
Then you hold onto Tunsil

Agreed about Derrick

Apparently you didn't see the Texans try to run the ball or protect Mills last yr.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He hasn't played much LT since he got here. They brought Tunsil in the year he was drafted. Probably more of a favor to his buddy Flores.

But he played well at RT until he got hurt. I think they moved him to guard because Christian & Heck are better tackles than McCray is a Guard.

& when Howard was moved to LT he looked pretty good. Some issues with consistency but that's to be expected with the way they've moved him around
There's a reason BOB made the trade for Tunsil after seeing Howard at LT during TC.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
There's a reason BOB made the trade for Tunsil after seeing Howard at LT during TC.
I remember saying BO'b would have to draft 5 tackles to make sure he gets one to put at LT. I screwed up, didn't think about FAs & trades.

I say that to show what I think about BO'bs talent evaluation.

Seeing Howard myself I truly believe BO'b made a hasty decision he didn't have to.

That said, I never had a problem with the trade. I don't want Tunsil to be traded. But I'm open to all options.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I remember saying BO'b would have to draft 5 tackles to make sure he gets one to put at LT. I screwed up, didn't think about FAs & trades.

I say that to show what I think about BO'bs talent evaluation.

Seeing Howard myself I truly believe BO'b made a hasty decision he didn't have to.

That said, I never had a problem with the trade. I don't want Tunsil to be traded. But I'm open to all options.
I'm open to all options too.

I dont want Howard playing LT except in case of emergency.
 

vtech9

All Pro
I'm open to all options too.

I dont want Howard playing LT except in case of emergency.
Even if Howard is the best option? I don't understand some of your fanatical hangups sometimes. I understand about WD40, but your hangup on Howard doesn't make sense.
 

Earl34

Hall of Fame
There's a reason BOB made the trade for Tunsil after seeing Howard at LT during TC.
Do you trust BOB's reason? We all know BOB's lack of patience with rookies and the lack of coaching up the OL by Devlin. Considering Duane Brown's struggles his rookie year. If he was playing for BOB and Devlin they would have moved him to RT or OG too.

Maybe now that Howard has better coaching and been on an NFL strength and conditioning program. It might be time to evaluate him at LT. The only thing I know about Howard is he is not a LG and I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing LT full time for another team.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Even if Howard is the best option? I don't understand some of your fanatical hangups sometimes. I understand about WD40, but your hangup on Howard doesn't make sense.
I dont think Howard is or ever will be more than an avg OL in the NFL. (Best case scenario, the fact that we're having this debate after seeing him play for 3 yrs speaks volumes.) Nothing fanatical about it. Just my opinion, you see Howard differently and I guess you stil think he will become an above avg OL by your thinking he can play LT. Hope you're right but I dont see it.

I'm the kind of guy that after seeing something where I've made a mistake (Drafting Howard in the 1st definitely was a mistake) I try to move on as quickly as possible and dont look back. But that's just the way I'm wired and I fully understand that not everybody is wired this way.

I really enjoy your football takes, you're really knowledgeable and look forward to your thoughts on the draft/FA. Dont let a difference of opinion on Howard or the OL in general stop us from debating these kinds of things.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Do you trust BOB's reason? We all know BOB's lack of patience with rookies and the lack of coaching up the OL by Devlin. Considering Duane Brown's struggles his rookie year. If he was playing for BOB and Devlin they would have moved him to RT or OG too.

Maybe now that Howard has better coaching and been on an NFL strength and conditioning program. It might be time to evaluate him at LT. The only thing I know about Howard is he is not a LG and I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing LT full time for another team.
Afer seeing Howard play the last 3 yrs the answer in this case with BOB is yes.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
You're over thinking things. IMHO but I understand how people like you think. Some people want to know why. (My wife's brain works this way) Some people dont care why, they are fix the damn problem and move on to the next problem. The main problem is that you will never have a good run game with Howard/Scharping and yes Tunsil on the same OL. You can get by with your LT being an avg run blocker because his main job is to protect the QB's blindside, but the rest of the OL has to be really good atrun blocking to have a dominant run game.
Once again, we did have a good run game in 2019 with those three people on the same OL. So you can't say never.

I think it's important to understand the past, so you can make the correct decisions for the future.
 

AcresHomesTexan

No Longer Arlington: Escaped From Jerry's World
Staff member
on Howard, that draft has turned out horrible for OT. They either busted, moved to guard, or both in the dudes taken in rounds 1 and 2.
The coaches for the Texans at that point overvalued what should be a secondary trait...being versatile

Howard seems usable (maybe more) if you give a specific role and keep him there, but I am not an OL expert...
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
I'm with you guys, we need to upgrade RB.

Tim Kelly's coaching & scheme did a pretty good job running the ball in 2019. I'm not a Kelly fan, but I'm more interested in finding the real reason our running game has sucked the past two seasons.

I keep hearing "fix the OL", "fix the OL". But if you look at 2019, the running game was pretty good with pretty much the same personnel on the OL that was around the last two seasons.
Comparatively speaking maybe. They were 17th in DVOA in '19 and that is the best it's ever been in the OB era, including '14 when Foster had 1,200+ yards. Only twice have they been above 25th in that time span, '19 and 2017 when they were 23rd. So I'd say there's been an issue with the scheme for quite some time.
 

mws

Rookie
Texans rush stats by year. This includes all rushers not just RBs.

2002 | 424 attempts | 1347 yards | 3.2 avg | 6 TDs
2003 | 421 attempts | 1651 yards | 3.9 avg | 14 TDs
2004 | 481 attempts | 1882 yards | 3.9 avg | 16 TDs
2005 | 437 attempts | 1816 yards | 4.2 avg | 9 TDs
2006 | 431 attempts | 1687 yards | 3.9 avg | 13 TDs
2007 | 417 attempts | 1586 yards | 3.8 avg | 12 TDs
2008 | 432 attempts | 1846 yards | 4.3 avg | 16 TDs
2009 | 425 attempts | 1475 yards | 3.5 avg | 13 TDs
2010 | 423 attempts | 2042 yards | 4.8 avg | 20 TDs
2011 | 546 attempts | 2448 yards | 4.5 avg | 18 TDs
2012 | 508 attempts | 2123 yards | 4.2 avg | 19 TDs
2013 | 414 attempts | 1743 yards | 4.2 avg | 7 TDs
2014 | 551 attempts | 2161 yards | 3.9 avg | 12 TDs
2015 | 472 attempts | 1731 yards | 3.7 avg | 7 TDs
2016 | 456 attempts | 1859 yards | 4.1 avg | 8 TDs
2017 | 448 attempts | 1842 yards | 4.1 avg | 8 TDs
2018 | 472 attempts | 2021 yards | 4.3 avg | 12 TDs
2019 | 434 attempts | 2009 yards | 4.6 avg | 17 TDs
2020 | 344 attempts | 1466 yards | 4.3 avg | 10 TDs
2021 | 420 attempts | 1422 yards | 3.4 avg | 8 TDs
 

KA4Texan

Woof!
Contributor's Club
Deep fake Titans players/owners/staff/fans talking trash about Derrick Henry and how much it would anger them to have him play for us.

Hope he believes it and demands release, then comes to us as a FA.

Or deep fake him talking all kinds of trash til nobody wants that kind of drama and we get him cheap.

Then work on our line.
 

vtech9

All Pro
Deep fake Titans players/owners/staff/fans talking trash about Derrick Henry and how much it would anger them to have him play for us.

Hope he believes it and demands release, then comes to us as a FA.

Or deep fake him talking all kinds of trash til nobody wants that kind of drama and we get him cheap.

Then work on our line.
He wouldn't make it to us.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
Texans rush stats by year. This includes all rushers not just RBs.

2002 | 424 attempts | 1347 yards | 3.2 avg | 6 TDs

2021 | 420 attempts | 1422 yards | 3.4 avg | 8 TDs
Thank you. The expansion Texans rushing attack actually out gained this years team on a per game basis.

2002 - 84.2 yds/game
2021 - 83.6 yds/game.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
on Howard, that draft has turned out horrible for OT. They either busted, moved to guard, or both in the dudes taken in rounds 1 and 2.
The coaches for the Texans at that point overvalued what should be a secondary trait...being versatile

Howard seems usable (maybe more) if you give a specific role and keep him there, but I am not an OL expert...
Usable best describes Howard's play.

I'm wanting alot more than that from the OL.

Used would best describe the Texans OL last yr.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Once again, we did have a good run game in 2019 with those three people on the same OL. So you can't say never.

I think it's important to understand the past, so you can make the correct decisions for the future.
I dont really care why, I want an OL better than the 2019 OL. Derrick's run if the 1st read isn't there greatly contributed to the run game numbers.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I’ve seen elsewhere people making a case that Howard looks to be the answer at LT.

Not something I was able to notice, but interesting to see how opinion varies on him.
When he played left tackle, he played well. Sharparing is another issue. This team hasn't been able to develop linemen since Kubes was fired. Texans problem is more coaching and scheme at ol and talent in backfield
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
When he played left tackle, he played well. Sharparing is another issue. This team hasn't been able to develop linemen since Kubes was fired. Texans problem is more coaching and scheme at ol and talent in backfield
Keep telling yourself that.

a bunch of small school guys proving they cant cut it at the NFL level. 2 regimes and counting, although the scheme does have some tells in it. Most schemes have tells, remember fans complaining when Kubiak's offenses struggled to score in the RZ and fans were saying that they could call the plays?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Keep telling yourself that.

a bunch of small school guys proving they cant cut it at the NFL level. 2 regimes and counting, although the scheme does have some tells in it. Most schemes have tells, remember fans complaining when Kubiak's offenses struggled to score in the RZ and fans were saying that they could call the plays?
Matt Schaub played qb, what do you expect? Go watch Howard playing left tackle, he played well. Who plays left tackle for NO? Where did he go to school? Use the G option
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Howard is not a bust. He played well this year.
Get yourself some nasty physical interior linemen and go to work. You can not continue to change up every freaking year. Continuity and chemistry between that unit is very pivotal to a successful line. Also you need to draft a monster coming out that backfired who can do it all. Run between the tackles, great vision, speed, power, elusiveness, great blocker and can catch out of the backfield.
 
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beerlover

Hall of Fame
Texans where on the right track when they hired Kubiak. Shanahan was OC for him and produced the most balance and effective offense in Texan history without a superstar QB.

Look at the 49'er now, their running attack is superb, very physical with good offensive line and weapons in the backfield and wide receiver. Gonna give Packers hell

Buffalo is another. Absolutely love their tackle play. Pushed hard for Dawkins late 2nd but Texans moved up for Cunningham. Northern Iowa (David Johnson came out of there) is producing legitimate tackles, OL coach (Ryan Clayton) played LT, LG and RG for Ducks during Chip Kelly era 2011-2013, Bills RT was a 3rd round pick in 2021, Spencer Brown has been outstanding making blocks and creating lanes for Josh Allen to run through. Playoff football all about running the ball, look out KC.

Either one of those directions works for me but probably former. Really think Kyle Shanahan's OC would be a great selection, Mike McDaniel, very innovative, been with Kyle for years and knows Shanahan system inside out and would install a fabulous ground game.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Matt Schaub played qb, what do you expect? Go watch Howard playing left tackle, he played well. Who plays left tackle for NO? Where did he go to school? Use the G option
Armstead was one of the most physically gifted ol to ever play the game. He was a freak show at the combine. Howard isn't even in his league athletically.

BTW, Armstead was picked in the 3rd Rd. We all wish Howard could become like Armstead but that ain't happening.
 

LikeMike

Veteran
With where we are now, I would build this team from the inside out. That means use our high draft picks on linemen - both offensive and defensive. It seems like getting a pass rusher will be the higher value-pick with our first rounder, so I would go there. Second and maybe third round should go to the O-line. And yes - i know we have tried that with Howard, Sharping, Martin... still the right way to go. It makes the job of everybody else easier.
 

OptimisticTexan

2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I dont really care why, I want an OL better than the 2019 OL. Derrick's run if the 1st read isn't there greatly contributed to the run game numbers.
How many more sacks does Watson absorb if he stands in this non-existent pocket perusing the field for his 2nd and 3rd progressions? Watson’s ability to extend plays and then make something happen was a big reason OB was given more leash than he ever deserved.
 

OptimisticTexan

2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Howard is not a bust. He played well this year.
Get yourself some nasty physical interior linemen and go to work. You can not continue change up every freaking year. Continuity and chemistry between that unit is very pivotal to a successful line. Also you need to draft a monster coming out that backfired who can do it all. Run between the tackles, great vision, speed, power, elusiveness, great blocker and can catch out of the backfield.
Hasn’t that been the same argument used when we bring up Tunsil’s shortcomings as a run blocker. He’d be much better if he had a stud LG playing next to him. That argument works for each position on the OL but in Tunsil’s case…..he was never known as a stud LT in the running game. He was known as a premier blind-side blocker who best used a bend but don’t break approach.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
With where we are now, I would build this team from the inside out. That means use our high draft picks on linemen - both offensive and defensive. It seems like getting a pass rusher will be the higher value-pick with our first rounder, so I would go there. Second and maybe third round should go to the O-line. And yes - i know we have tried that with Howard, Sharping, Martin... still the right way to go. It makes the job of everybody else easier.
I agree, we need guards more than we need tackles. I'd like to improve our outside rush. & I'd like to improve the secondary.

I don't care the order, but that Hamilton kid seems like a unicorn. I probably wouldn't pass on him.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
I don't care the order, but that Hamilton kid seems like a unicorn. I probably wouldn't pass on him.
If you have a plan to fully utilize Hamilton's abilities, then sure. If you are going to stick him at the back end of a cover 2 shell, then no.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
How many more sacks does Watson absorb if he stands in this non-existent pocket perusing the field for his 2nd and 3rd progressions? Watson’s ability to extend plays and then make something happen was a big reason OB was given more leash than he ever deserved.
I dont know, because he rarely stood in the pocket even when he had time. His 1st reaction when his 1st read wasn't open was to scramble out to his left and either throw a deep ball or take off running.
 

OptimisticTexan

2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I dont know, because he rarely stood in the pocket even when he had time. His 1st reaction when his 1st read wasn't open was to scramble out to his left and either throw a deep ball or take off running.
QB's who get hit enough usually begin to get, happy feet, anxious in the pocket, etc. By year four of their Texans careers, Carr was never going to recover from his abuse and Watson wound up having his best season ever. Watson was getting better while the team around him was getting worse.
 
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