I'd be looking at getting a guy like Suh who played for $8M last season to help Blalock control the Center & Guards so McKinney, Adams, & Cunningham can make plays.
I'd get a couple more guys like Conley... cheap, capable...
I want Kareem Hunt.
Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!
Should we trade Watson?
- Thread starter theCATALYST
- Start date
I'd get a couple more guys like Conley... cheap, capable...
I want Kareem Hunt.
Garoppolo was available after Kubiak was fired. Again, who in that list was available and Ricky could have drafted who was available for Kubiak that is a no brainer pick and a potential franchise QB for Kubiak?
They had a whole lotta opportunity to draft QB's .... Smith just refused to take a swing at any of them.
I remember he and Gary arguing constantly about the need for someone competent behind Schaub and eventually to replace him after the injuries and Rick basically saying "your system makes QB's" , "you can make do with mediocre talent at the position" .... it was a yearly fight that you could mark on the calendar.
So which of the QBs drafted in the first round between 2009 and 2013 had better careers than Schaub or would have been a clear upgrade and future franchise QB?
2009: Stafford, Lions; Mark Sanchez, Jets; Josh Freeman, Buccaneers.
2010: Sam Bradford, Rams; Tim Tebow, Broncos.
2011: Cam Newton, Panthers; Jake Locker, Titans; Blaine Gabbert, Jaguars; Christian Ponder, Vikings.
2012: Andrew Luck, Colts; Robert Griffin III, Washington; Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins; Brandon Weeden, Browns.
2013: EJ Manuel, Bills.
2014: Blake Bortles, Jaguars; Johnny Manziel, Browns; Teddy Bridgewater, Vikings.
2015: Jameis Winston, Buccaneers; Marcus Mariota, Titans.
2016: Goff, Rams; Wentz, Eagles; Paxton Lynch, Broncos.
I don't think the hit rate has improved lately. We don't have the history like we do for those guys drafted in 2016.
We've seen Josh Allens, Joe Burrows, even Deshaun Watsons flash & peter out.
It easy to say, draft a franchise QB or move up or spend draft capital to get into the top 10. Looking at the QBs from 2009-2016, where are these franchise QBs that Ricky was suppose to draft?
What's frustrating is that every year the Texans had a top 5 pick, there were no franchise QBs available. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Rick Smith was some great GM, but the history of the 2009-2016 first round QBs make me wonder if we missed anything or moving up to pick one of them would have put the Texans in an even worse position.
It's repeated ad nauseum on this board that Smith should have drafted a QB, I'm simply asking which of these first round QBs were available that he should have drafted? That's my point.
What's frustrating is that every year the Texans had a top 5 pick, there were no franchise QBs available. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Rick Smith was some great GM, but the history of the 2009-2016 first round QBs make me wonder if we missed anything or moving up to pick one of them would have put the Texans in an even worse position.
It's repeated ad nauseum on this board that Smith should have drafted a QB, I'm simply asking which of these first round QBs were available that he should have drafted? That's my point.
Last edited:
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Some quality effort put into this post. Thanks. I think its arguable that a portion of these qbs would've been better with the Texans talent and Kubiak's tutelage though.
My post wasn't about a "franchise QB" or being "better than Schaub".
It was about having literally nothing behind Schaub.
Any QB better than "Broke Schaub" would have been an improvement over what they had.
Alex Brink & TJ Yates were the only developmental QB's they drafted in the entire decade of Rick Smith being GM.
Watson was actually a mandate from McNair "Go get a quality QB , no more of this journeyman / retread crap". Tricky Rick might tell a different story but those were Bob's words that I heard with my own ears.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Trouble with your argument is you are trying to simplify it to much. Any of those QBs might have had a better or worse career if they were taken by another team. That’s the case with almost all players. Would Mahomes be Mahomes if he was taken by Chicago? Would Trubisky be almost a bust if taken by Reid. Wentz is considered a failure now but would he have been if he had a coach with a firm hand? If KC had taken Watson would he now be considered the next GOAT?
Hindsight maybe 20/20 but it also tends to make people see things in absolutes. From a pure talent point of view several of those QBs would have been an upgrade on Schaub at that point and a massive upgrade on Savage and Hoyer.
Don't give me too much credit. I came across this article on the QBs drafted from 2009 to 2016 and it made me wonder which of these QB would have been difference makers for the Texans.
No QBs drafted in first round from 2009-16 are set to be on original team in 2021 - ProFootballTalk (nbcsports.com)
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
You illustrate your point with the post. The top end names weren't always available because of where guys were drafted. However, those names you named seem limited to mostly round 1. It doesn't go much into deeper rounds or explore free agency options. (That would take effort I'm not willing to do.)
That said, my stance on the matter was there was no contingency for anything behind Schaub. After injury, Schaub fell off a cliff and his back ups were so bad I'm sure he has the single season pick 6 record. That should never have happened.
You forgot to add Mahomes/Mayfield/Herbert/Dak to that list.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Not sure I would compare an older HoF WR wanting more $ to Watson who just received 156 million dollar extension. Quarterback face of the team still ranked much higher than Hopkins. Also seeing how that fiasco played out with fans and national ridicule, Janice may not be taking calls from Deann.
How about Wilson/Cousins/Kaep etc.. outside of the 1st rd to name a few. BTW, I wasn't talking about 1st rd QB's, i'm talking about developmental QB's.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Dom Capers 2002-2005 / HC
Chris Palmer 2002-2005 / OC
**Kubiak's team got Carr after he was shell-shocked and was supposed to salvage him**
Gary Kubiak 2006 / HC
Mike Sherman 2006 / Asst HC & Offensive Asst
Troy Calhoun 2006 / OC & QB Coach
**They couldn't revive his career**
Which coach should I be most impressed with?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Didn’t we have Case and Yates. Proper coaching and they could’ve been that contingency plan. Why didn’t Kubiak want to play them again. I guess RS was the reason why huh
Texansballer74
The Marine
Why didn’t they develop Case or TJ?
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
There's a case to be made for case (pun intended.) Not tj.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I actually think Kubiak reviving Carr was part of the sales pitch and why he got the hc gig. If he'd said Carr was lost he would've never got the job. You could actually see a difference in his mechanics after Kubiak got here till he (Carr) got hit. Carr was just to fargone by then to be saved though.
Texansballer74
The Marine
understood but Yates could’ve been coached up.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I think tj was a good guy and a cerebral qb who wouldn't f things up to much. Never had the talent to be a top 25 qb though. Good for a small stretch - not much more. Jmo ofcourse.
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/68836222/usa_today_10425474.0.jpg)
Andre Johnson Speaks Out Against the Houston Texans Once Again
www.battleredblog.com
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
McCaffrey is a really good player. Maybe not 5 star but definitely a 4+ star player.
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
Root...that you from the Bull Pen?
And Watson 100% confused "input" with "my pick or I leave"
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
badboy
Hall of Fame
How did you decide Conley is capable?
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I wouldn't bother with him. He'll command a nice contract at a position with a short shelf life. This team is full rebuild. McCaffery good for 2 years does little for the team long term.
And I'm open to legit guys on rookie contracts. Just safer.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am a huge fan of Najee Harris as you know but I think running back are much more available in round 4 and we could use 1.23 With a wide receiver such as Terrace Marshall from LSU. I know that you like him also. Thoughts?
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
That was Osweiller, not Watson
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Can you clarify?
badboy
Hall of Fame
Actually some have discus flipping tag however I believe at less than 2 million dollar cost to us this season he is cost-effective. Although I apparently am the only one on the board that believe he is going to be significantly improved, off of the board there are several that feel the same way I do. We are talking about an injured rookie who still had at minimum an average season. I have yet to read anyone say why he will not be improved only that they don't like him. I definitely get personal opinion on individual evaluations of players as I do that myself but none have said medically he will not hold up and all recent reports say he has healed with months to get even better. I continue to think there is a 50-50 chance that the Jets will either select Justin fields or even another positional player at 1.2
badboy
Hall of Fame
I don't think they would give you another pick in replacement of Tua tag. I believe the Dolphins would see the Texans taking Tua tag to get the offer we want of two first rounds and two second round.
"You want draft picks? Deliver us from TT." Just as some have suggested we force Mercilus on Dolphins or Jets to get Watson.
I think we could get the package we want and Tua tag but not the package we want and another pic in place of Tua.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Your first sentence is just not correct as they can cut players and add at least $30 million in cap space to the 9 to 10 we now have. $40 million in this off season where so many vets are going to allegedly be cut Is hardly chicken feed.
Now if you want to say that we might not have the General manager to use that 40 efficiently I certainly will not argue that. LOL
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
When the demand to get a qb came down from Bob, it was during the Osweiller free agent period, not Watson draft yr.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Not really other than when Bob was really talking about adding a qb. Thats when they got in the Oz sweepstakes.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
So you don't know ownership didn't demand a qb when Watson was drafted?
no I’m saying if you get two first and a player from each team then I’m going with the one that has Wilson.
so Wilson at #2, #23 and player like Q Williams vs tua, #3 and #18. I take the one with Wilson.
You and I could've been coached up.
How many 6th rd/UDFA picks become starters and great QB's? I can think of 1.
2 yrs ago he was a 5 star player.
Andre Johnson Speaks Out Against the Houston Texans Once Again
Disgruntled former employee backing a soon to be former employee. I guess they dont teach athletes the definition of the word input at the U either. Reading that article it also appears they dont teach their athletes the proper use of the words doesn't and dont.
I like Marshall and whether WR becomes a priority depends on if they let Cooks walk or not.
It was Watson ... Osweiler was the final trigger to that mandate.
That mandate was to break against what Smith had previously done in not drafting QB's and get a top tier QB talent in the draft.
This isn't hearsay , its direct from McNair.
My starting point is #2 this year.
We assume TL is going 1:1
Who do the Jets take if they are on the outside looking in on Watson ? .... Probably Zach Wilson and that's the guy I want to replace Watson.
I better get that and more.
Consider I'm losing a top 8 QB and paying 20% of his salary in each of the next 4 years.
If Ramsey and Tunsil were worth 2 #1's , a top tier QB on a bargain contract is worth 4#1's plus.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I'm right there with you. It's Jets and what they got from Seattle for Jamal Adams PLUS Jets 1st RD picks in 2021, 2022 and 2nd RD picks in 2021, 2022 and I throw in Brandin Cooks for good measure. That's 4 1st, 2 2nds and 1 3rd = 7 total picks.
No one wants to trade for Cooks bloated contract. The Texans save the exact same amount of cap space by cutting Cooks. Sending Mercilus or Cobb's contracts in trade would be very beneficial to the Texans, however.