Of course you dont.
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The all encompassing DW4 good plays thread
- Thread starter banned1976
- Start date
Of course you dont.
ClemsonTexan
Waterboy
Yet Jordan didn't have a winning season until Pippen arrived in his 4th season....
Obviously, a great player can find success with other great players on the same team, so I'm not sure what your point is. If you gave even the 2017 version of DW4 a defense with Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs and Ed Reed, you're looking at at perennial 15-1 juggernaut with at least a couple of SB wins.
He wouldn't even have to do much of anything. He'd start every other drive from his opponent's 40-yard line and run read option.
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Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Disingenuous?? Oh, that's hilarious. The whole blaming Watson for everything under the sun done by a few here is disingenuous. Have never seen you throw that word at them?
What does this have to do with Portland/Chicago and MJ?
Speculation is running wild.
What season is DW4 in?
Yes your post is hilarious.
Houston Watsons? Ohhhh. That’s why you ignore the inconsistent OL play, bad running game, terrible defense, unimaginative offense, depleted WR group, and inexperienced OC while blaming Watson for every thing that is wrong with the Texans.
I get it now. You expect him to do it all by himself while playing a team game.
ClemsonTexan
Waterboy
Read your own post. You said Jordan and Clyde together would win multiple championships. Well, no s___. The poster you were replying to obviously meant a Trailblazers team that did not have two HOF players who were both members of the most elite Olympic basketball team ever assembled.
The Bulls did not have a .500+ record until Pippen was drafted. That's not to put Jordan down, but to underscore the point that no one can do it alone. And obviously basketball comparisons don't hold up here since one basketball player is often the ONLY difference between success and defeat.
The interesting comparison here is that Jordan was known as a flashy stats stuffer who accumulated gaudy individual numbers at the expense of his team. That's not something you can say about Watson since his 4,000+ yard passing season is not taking away from the Texans' anemic running offense. It's not like Watson throwing the ball is keeping David Johnson from achieving an A. Pete MVP-level of play.
ClemsonTexan
Waterboy
Houston Watsons? Ohhhh. That’s why you ignore the inconsistent OL play, bad running game, terrible defense, unimaginative offense, depleted WR group, and inexperienced OC while blaming Watson for every thing that is wrong with the Texans.
I get it now. You expect him to do it all by himself while playing a team game.
Yet when we point out the 17 INT season Brees had, his defense was "But Sean Payton was suspended that season. You don't think losing your HC has an impact on your play???"
Honestly, it shouldn't. If Watson doesn't get the same excuses, then why should Brees, Rodgers, Goff, Jimmy G or anyone else? If Watson can not throw 17 INTs after losing a HC and his WR1, WR2 and WR3, and put up massive numbers with the weakest run game in the NFL, then shouldn't we expect all QBs to have similar production in the face of adversity? Are you really an elite QB if you can only post good numbers under ideal conditions?
NVM. Not worth the effort.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
4th season and 52 starts.....number 53 coming this weekend. I'm actually hoping against this and would like to see McCarron get the start so we, the fans, can see what a real QB can do on the opening drive.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
^^^^^Hear that crack? That's the ball leaving the park over the CF wall and rattling around the tracks at MMP!!!!!
While on the what-if's.....there was word that the Tralblazers were willing to give up their RD1 pick for Ralph Sampson who was coming off his ROY season. Rockets didn't bite and they missed the opportunity to take Hakeem and Jordan in the same draft. At some point the Rockets would've still been in a position to get Drexler. Throw in the rest of the team assembled....Horry, Cassell, etc and now we are talking an absolute dynasty that could've strung several NBA Championships together.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Jordan had plenty of winning season before the arrival of Pippen. You don’t remember him darn near scoring 40 a game in the playoffs against the Celtics? And even with Pippen it took them a minute to get over the Bad Boys Piston hump.
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FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
He didn't...
Jordan entered the league in '84, Pippen in '87.
'84 through '86 the Bulls didn't finish above .500
Texansballer74
The Marine
Scottie was not on this team and the Bulls made the playoffs bro
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
But he didn't say playoffs, he said winning season - which is, as far as I know, always a regular-season record above .500 - you can make the playoffs and still have a losing season.
Is it possible a sub .500 team made the playoffs?
Texansballer74
The Marine
That’s still considered a successful season. Seattle made the playoffs and deep run with 7 win season correct? The Giants won the SB after a .500 season correct? So define success
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Think the lines are getting blurred here a bit - and we have switched from 'winning season' to 'successful season' - agree if you win 7 games, 40 games, 80 games, depending on your league, but make the playoffs and still manage to win it all - it was a very successful season, but you still had a losing regular-season record.
Regardless - the original statement was that Jordan didn't have a winning season until Pippen, which is true. "Jordan had plenty of winning season before the arrival of Pippen" - isn't true.
Was Jordan successful before Pippen? Yeah I think so, he tore up the league since the day he entered it - but the team didn't have a winning season until the '87/'88 season.
Regardless - the original statement was that Jordan didn't have a winning season until Pippen, which is true. "Jordan had plenty of winning season before the arrival of Pippen" - isn't true.
Was Jordan successful before Pippen? Yeah I think so, he tore up the league since the day he entered it - but the team didn't have a winning season until the '87/'88 season.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Amazing how arguably our best player in franchise history is splitting the board.
Since when did the team's success boil down to one player out of 53? When did expectations grow to perfection? For those who consistently critique Watson, @steelbtexan @Corrosion @JB , what exactly are your final expectations of him? Outside of a handful of plays per game, what do you expect him to be doing?
Since when did the team's success boil down to one player out of 53? When did expectations grow to perfection? For those who consistently critique Watson, @steelbtexan @Corrosion @JB , what exactly are your final expectations of him? Outside of a handful of plays per game, what do you expect him to be doing?
Next to Watson, which elite (in your mind) QBs aren’t making the playoffs this year?
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Historically, he/they are an anomaly. Does it negate his greatness because the team around him is historically bad?
Negate?
No. But it does put him in the Rivers/Stafford group and not the Mahomes/Rodgers group.
At least for this season. At least for me. & it’s not the playoffs thing as much as the 4 wins thing.
Elite QBs should beat bad teams, period. We lost to the Bengals. We lost to the Bears.
Great QB's make those around them better.
What part of this offense looks better because of Watson ? .... Other than Watson?
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Every single WR on this team. The OL. I think some of you overrate our players.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Of course, you laugh. Thus you get called a hater. Tell me, how high do you rate Coutee and Hansen? Tell me how many all pro OL men we have?
amazing80
Hall of Fame
How many sacks would we have without Watson?
<3 seconds sacked 1 in 45.3 plays 6 sacks in 272 drop backs.
>3 seconds sacked 1 in 5.9 plays 39 sacks in 233 drop backs.
He brings those sacks on himself by holding the ball waiting for deeper shots , that's not making the OL look better .... Its making himself look better when he escapes the pressure.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
His time to throw is because he eludes the pass rush, not because our line is holding their blocks. Don't be naive.
His "time to throw" beyond the norm is due to him eluding the rush .... But 46% of the time he's holding the ball beyond the norm. (233/505).
That's not making those around him look good at all , its making them look worse than they actually are .... while it makes him look like the hero when he's able to avoid the pressure and make a completion.
You see the highlight , I see the root cause.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
What's the time of pressure vs his drop back? What's the % of untouched pass rushers? What's the % of missed stunts creating pressure up the middle? What's the % of routes run with no outlet before pressure hits?
You see what you want to see because you don't like Watson. You force small details to fit your narrative. No measurable stat or eye test suggests Watson is anything other than a legit franchise QB capable of carrying a team to a super bowl. He unfortunately is surrounded by the single worst team ever constructed.
A small fraction of the total. I'd say somewhere around 5-7% collectively.
False.
I've stated multiple times that there is only aren't 3 other QB's I'd rather build around .... really there is only One.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Back then winning 40 games or making the playoffs were considered a success. The 3rd year they won 50 games not just because Pippen was drafted. They also brought in Horace Grant. The Bulls started building upon the success from those two previous seasons. Something I thought the Texans were doing those years they went 10-4 and then 12-4. Or under O’Brien 9-7’s 10-6 and then 11-5.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Wow so those two practices squad players and Coutee doesn’t look good because of Watson? Or Tunsil and that atrocious line doesn’t look better because of Watson’s elusiveness?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Corrosion refuses to address the play calling. Sometimes, shoots most of the time these receivers are running patterns 10 yards or more. Lol
I hope they play McCarron too .... I'm worried about that elbow and really , what point is there in playing him ?
I hope KC sits Mahomes too .... they have nothing to play for either.
Either one of those QB's gets hurt in and those franchises are set back a decade or more.
That practice squad WR (Hansen) has been wide open a whole heck of a lot .... He's earned a spot on someone's roster next year bare minimum and I wouldn't mind him starting in the slot. He's a sneaky good route runner with really good hands.
That 14.7 yards per catch would rank 17th in the NFL and the 11 yards per target would put him 6th in the NFL.
Not bad for some scrub on the practice squad.
As for Tunsil and that Oline .... what have you said about them ? they are terrible ?
I really like Hansen, and I wish Coutee would quit fumbling because he’s really good too. Im a Fuller fan and I’m hopeful this PED issue will allow us to bring him back at a team friendly rate. With Cooks, Fuller, Hansen, Coutee you have the makings of a solid Wr corps. I like Cobb but not at his contract. I’d like to add a couple WRs with some size as well
As for the OL, the Ts have played well but interior 3 have not. We need to upgrade 2 of the 3. I think Martin might be serviceable with better G play next to him. I’m also hopeful Scharping improves with better coaching.
Yeah , Coutee has been very good aside from the fumbles .... and that one at the goal line was really not on him , just a great play by the defender. It's almost a certainty he's back costing only $920,000 for next year.
Cobb we are stuck with next year I think , just too much dead money. $12.25m
Cooks has no dead money & comes with a 12m price tag. Maybe they can get him to restructure that deal.
On Fuller , without going into detail .... you are likely to be disappointed.
I know a lot of people complain about the guard play but Fulton has been reasonably effective more often than not , there have been several plays where I have watched him push Martin or Titus where they should be on stunts / passing off rushers. Both those guys are lost quite often.
I'd go the opposite route and dump Martin .... You aren't likely to replace Fulton for the same money either , he's on a really good contract for next year while Martin saves you $4.75m.
I'd toy with the idea of moving Fulton to center and picking up a guard in FA on the cheap. There's going to be an awful lot of cap casualties in the mid to lower salary range.
Id be just as happy to dump Martin. They’ve got to upgrade. I’d be happy to keep Cobb as well. I don’t like his contract but his play has been solid
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Last post on this since it isn't really on topic... but...
Back then winning 40 games still wasn't a "winning" season which is what I stated you were wrong about and which is factual.
But hey, welcome to your very own "1000%" correct club. Sometimes it's OK to just admit you were mistaken and move on.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Again (and for the last time) no one mentioned success - it mentioned WINNING season which a sub 500 record is not. I have not one-time argued 'success'.
You are wrong and you do have a problem saying so. To each their own.
You are wrong and you do have a problem saying so. To each their own.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
If you can work the system in place, great. Doesn't mean much unless you win though. And considering the NBA lets half their league in the playoffs, it's not really that big a deal, again, unless you win.
Thinking about this question. Which elite QB is making or missing the playoffs with a defense ranked similar to the Texans?
My point is having an elite QB will only get you so far.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Texans can't play around with Hansen.....I'd have him signed right after Sunday's game if not before. He's a legit Slot Receiver that the next HC & OC should be able to utilize with great success. I also wouldn't mind the Texans re-signing TE, Jordan Thomas. It blew me away how this team regressed him after his rookie season. As I've mentioned in other post(s), Texans coaching staff has a bad history of coaxing the worst out of their young talent instead of coaching them up.
ClemsonTexan
Waterboy
There are at least two major components of a football game a QB has little to no influence over: defense and rushing.
First question: What could Watson have done to improve the Texans rushing attack and its defense?
Second question: Has any team in NFL history ever ranked 31st in rushing and 30th in total defense and finished with a .500 record?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I think Coutee and Hensen are very inexpensive signings. Agree that Cobb is probably here next season b/c of the dead money. I'm not interested in re-signing Fuller simply b/c of his injury history and his only potential full season was in a contract year that was enhanced with PED's. As for Cooks, I'd like the savings the Texans get by moving him and with a intelligent football mind sitting in the GM seat, I think the Texans could get a RD3 pick for him. At the same time, this new GM could probably coax WR, Antonio Brown to Houston on another prove-it type of contract. The offer would probably need some solid bonuses since he would arrive as the new WR1 weapon for Watson. So, not only would Brown be better than Fuller, he should cost less than Fuller with more upside to the receiving corp. I'd also be targeting Michigan WR, Nico Collins in RD4 in the upcoming draft. Collins reminds me of a Anquan Boldin type with a bigger catch radius. So, if all wishes fell into place.....the Texans and Watson could have this receiving unit for 2021:
WR1: Antonio Brown
WR2: Nico Collins (R)
WR3: Randall Cobb
WR4: Drew Hensen
WR5: Keke Coutee
WR6: Isaiah Coulter
TE1: Jordan Aikens
TE2: Kahale Warring
TE3: Pharoah Brown
TE4: Jordan Thomas
ClemsonTexan
Waterboy
What does it matter if he is holding the ball "beyond the norm"? Mobile QBs hold the ball longer. This isn't some new revelation. When Mahomes won the MVP award in 2018, he had the 31st longest TTT in the NFL. Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson often hold the ball even longer. Last season, Rodgers held the ball longer than any other starting QB.
ClemsonTexan
Waterboy
So logically, if Watson is throwing for more yards, fewer interceptions and more touchdowns, then that means the entire passing game has improved. This seems so obvious that it shouldn't have to be stated, but alas, here we are.
Will Fuller V had a career year in 2020. Coutee has a career high in reception yards with fewer targets than last year.
By definition, every completion by a QB has a corresponding reception by a receiver. So a QB throwing for more yards with higher efficiency means receivers will always look better.