Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

State of the O-line

Earl34 said:
Your point is valid and you would think Martin would do exactly what you describe. However, you get this too often. This is a perfect example of what @dream_team is referencing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1306668454938841088
Click to expand...

yeah that was pretty bad, but this guy Rivers McCown makes it look worse with the slow mo.

Watching it real time and from a different angle, I don’t believe the LB was really coming and probably wasn’t as close as he appears from that particular angle. Just looks more like an opportunistic blitz by the LB b/c Martin just left.
 
thunderkyss said:
I believe he can, I've seen it. But instead of making a play after the third guy misses him, he needs to get up field after the first guy misses him.
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree, but to Earl34's point there is almost nothing you can establish if you are consistently seeing pressure within 3 steps. OB needs video chat with Mouse Davis and go full out Run N Shoot...DW4 is taking a beating anyway.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
I wholeheartedly agree, but to Earl34's point there is almost nothing you can establish if you are consistently seeing pressure within 3 steps. OB needs video chat with Mouse Davis and go full out Run N Shoot...DW4 is taking a beating anyway.
Click to expand...


Watson is being pressured / hit / sacked / knocked down on just under 50% of his total drop backs thru 2 games.

What's he doing on the other 50% ?

As for pressure at the top of a 3 or 5 step drop - That's generally a blitz issue .... who's responsible for that ?!

Pre snap the QB has to identify potential blitzers and assign a TE / RB to them OR get the ball out before the blitz can reach him.

A big part of the problem in this area is Watson's belief in his ability to evade those potential blitzers , He's said something to that effect several times in the past.
This leads to him hanging onto the ball longer than most ... which leads to him running for his life or a big play - the former more than the latter.

Thing is , that elusiveness is exactly what makes Watson "special" .... If you ask him not to do that .... you have an average QB , not a special one.

The solution to all this is to put his ass under center and run a whole lot of play action particularly with multi TE sets ... getting him outside on passing plays will put a lot of pressure on defenses while letting him do what he's good at.

This RPO crap they run , they don't run right .... so why the hell run it ?
 
Corrosion said:
Watson is being pressured / hit / sacked / knocked down on just under 50% of his total drop backs thru 2 games.

What's he doing on the other 50% ?

As for pressure at the top of a 3 or 5 step drop - That's generally a blitz issue .... who's responsible for that ?!

Pre snap the QB has to identify potential blitzers and assign a TE / RB to them OR get the ball out before the blitz can reach him.

A big part of the problem in this area is Watson's belief in his ability to evade those potential blitzers , He's said something to that effect several times in the past.
This leads to him hanging onto the ball longer than most ... which leads to him running for his life or a big play - the former more than the latter.

Thing is , that elusiveness is exactly what makes Watson "special" .... If you ask him not to do that .... you have an average QB , not a special one.

The solution to all this is to put his ass under center and run a whole lot of play action particularly with multi TE sets ... getting him outside on passing plays will put a lot of pressure on defenses while letting him do what he's good at.

This RPO crap they run , they don't run right .... so why the hell run it ?
Click to expand...

im surprised they haven’t tried the pistol, at least I don’t remember us utilizing it much
 
Corrosion said:
Watson is being pressured / hit / sacked / knocked down on just under 50% of his total drop backs thru 2 games.

What's he doing on the other 50% ?

As for pressure at the top of a 3 or 5 step drop - That's generally a blitz issue .... who's responsible for that ?!

Pre snap the QB has to identify potential blitzers and assign a TE / RB to them OR get the ball out before the blitz can reach him.

A big part of the problem in this area is Watson's belief in his ability to evade those potential blitzers , He's said something to that effect several times in the past.
This leads to him hanging onto the ball longer than most ... which leads to him running for his life or a big play - the former more than the latter.

Thing is , that elusiveness is exactly what makes Watson "special" .... If you ask him not to do that .... you have an average QB , not a special one.

The solution to all this is to put his ass under center and run a whole lot of play action particularly with multi TE sets ... getting him outside on passing plays will put a lot of pressure on defenses while letting him do what he's good at.

This RPO crap they run , they don't run right .... so why the hell run it ?
Click to expand...
Do you realize that without the fumble RTD and the 4th down call, the Texans could have led 10-6 at the half?
 
Corrosion said:
Watson is being pressured / hit / sacked / knocked down on just under 50% of his total drop backs thru 2 games.

What's he doing on the other 50% ?

As for pressure at the top of a 3 or 5 step drop - That's generally a blitz issue .... who's responsible for that ?!

Pre snap the QB has to identify potential blitzers and assign a TE / RB to them OR get the ball out before the blitz can reach him.

A big part of the problem in this area is Watson's belief in his ability to evade those potential blitzers , He's said something to that effect several times in the past.
This leads to him hanging onto the ball longer than most ... which leads to him running for his life or a big play - the former more than the latter.

Thing is , that elusiveness is exactly what makes Watson "special" .... If you ask him not to do that .... you have an average QB , not a special one.

The solution to all this is to put his ass under center and run a whole lot of play action particularly with multi TE sets ... getting him outside on passing plays will put a lot of pressure on defenses while letting him do what he's good at.

This RPO crap they run , they don't run right .... so why the hell run it ?
Click to expand...

Corrosion, I'm not sure you can simply say it's a blitz issue. I've seen multiple times the OL is just getting beat, pushed back, double teaming the wrong person and getting destroyed by simple stunts or even fake blitzes. What's the point of being in the shotgun if your OL is back pedaling like a DB? After the snap, count to three.....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1306641924737044480
 
Last edited:
76Texan said:
Do you realize that without the fumble RTD and the 4th down call, the Texans could have led 10-6 at the half?
Click to expand...
This can be said for almost any game. A small handful of plays usually end up being the difference in winning or losing in the NFL. Unfortunately, the Texans would've still ended up losing, regardless of a 10-6 halftime lead. Through two weeks, they have been thoroughly outcoached and outplayed.
 
Earl34 said:
Corrosion, I'm not sure you can simply say it's a blitz issue. I've seen multiple times the OL is just getting beat, pushed back, double teaming the wrong person and getting destroyed by simple stunts or even fake blitzes. What's the point of being in the shotgun if your OL is back pedaling like a DB? After the snap, count to three.....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1306641924737044480
Click to expand...

Earl I respect a lot things Corrosion say. Dude is very knowledgeable for sure. But sometimes it seems as if he wants or have to place blame on Watson. The youngster internal clock is suspect now. He has taken a beating. Yes he caused some of that beating. But that offensive line has been atrocious since day one. The scheme has been horrendous since year two. Coaching has refused to adjust to his skill set since year two. Receivers are running the wrong routes . Organization has been dysfunctional for a long time. Man this is a for any player to overcome. Shoots even the great JJ Watt is acting out of character.
 
Last edited:
Texansballer74 said:
Earl I respect a lot things Corrosion say. Dude is very knowledgeable for sure. But sometimes it seems as if he wants or have to place blame on Watson. The youngster internal clock is suspect now. He has taken a beating. Yes he caused some of that beating. But that offensive line has been atrocious since day one. The scheme has horrendous since year two. Coaching has refused to adjust to his skill set since year two. Receivers are running the wrong routes . Organization has been dysfunctional for a long time. Man this is a for any player to overcome. Shoots even the great JJ Watt is acting out of character.
Click to expand...

He used to not be critical of DW4 and thought DW4 was improving

BTW, everybody keeps talking about DW4's skillset, exactly what's DW4's skillset?
 
Earl34 said:
What are your thoughts on the state of the OL? The video I posted?
Click to expand...

I'm very disappointed in their play. Particularly Howard. He looks very slow footed vs what he looked like last yr. This is why I would rather see them put Kelemete RT and move Howard to RG. Then I would also move Fulton to C because not only has N. Martin gotten overpowered at the POA, but he's making mental errors that a guy with his amount of experience shouldn't be making.
 
DocBar said:
This can be said for almost any game. A small handful of plays usually end up being the difference in winning or losing in the NFL. Unfortunately, the Texans would've still ended up losing, regardless of a 10-6 halftime lead. Through two weeks, they have been thoroughly outcoached and outplayed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they couldn't force any turnover themselves.
It's been mostly bad everywhere.
(Hint, hint). :hankpalm:
 
76Texan said:
Do you realize that without the fumble RTD and the 4th down call, the Texans could have led 10-6 at the half?
Click to expand...


Who said anything at all about the score?

~50% of passing plays see pressure.

~50% don't.

No one answered the question about the latter half.
Earl34 said:
Corrosion, I'm not sure you can simply say it's a blitz issue. I've seen multiple times the OL is just getting beat, pushed back, double teaming the wrong person and getting destroyed by simple stunts or even fake blitzes. What's the point of being in the shotgun if your OL is back pedaling like a DB? After the snap, count to three.....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1306641924737044480
Click to expand...

This is a very small percentage of plays in the grand scheme. It happens to every team / QB on occasion.

As for the play shown here - How bout that huge lane up the middle ?!
 
Corrosion said:
Who said anything at all about the score?

~50% of passing plays see pressure.

~50% don't.

No one answered the question about the latter half.


This is a very small percentage of plays in the grand scheme. It happens to every team / QB on occasion.

As for the play shown here - How bout that huge lane up the middle ?!
Click to expand...
Who knows about that lane up the middle? He's not taking those lanes anymore. I don't know why. It appears unless he has the sidelines to bail him out, he's not taking off. He's become extremely hesitant to take any type of risk. I'd love to know why.
 
Corrosion said:
Who said anything at all about the score?

~50% of passing plays see pressure.

~50% don't.

No one answered the question about the latter half.


This is a very small percentage of plays in the grand scheme. It happens to every team / QB on occasion.

As for the play shown here - How bout that huge lane up the middle ?!
Click to expand...
I have no idea what you're talking about. I was tossing around all night. I'm wearing a different pair of eyeglasses. I'm on antibiotic. I drink too much coffee. I'm not sure where I am and what I've been doing. :corrosion:

BTW, I've been trying to find that play and I can't seem to find it. Can you tell me the time and/or the down and distance in what period of play?
 
Some very surprising, and some not very surprising, stats...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...opping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

Not surprising:
  • Ranked 31st (2nd to last) in Team Pass Block Win Rate - duh! Anyone w/ eyes can see that.
  • Laremy Tunsil not in top 10 for Pass Block Win Rate as a tackle - the highest paid tackle in the league not only should be #1, should at least be top 10. He's had a bad start to the season.
Surprising:
  • Ranked FIRST in Team Run Block Win Rate - what!? Then why isn't our run game better? DJ sucks?
  • Ranked 8th in Team Run Stop Win Rate - something can't be right? Chiefs & Ravens ran all over us?
  • Ranked 10th in Team Pass Rush Win Rate - just a little surprising
  • Tytus Howard ranked #2 in Run Block Win Rate for a tackle
  • Nick Martin ranked #6 in Pass Block Win Rate for a center - that's right, I said NICK MARTIN! I guess they count all of those unnecessary double teams as a win?
 
Corrosion said:
Watson is being pressured / hit / sacked / knocked down on just under 50% of his total drop backs thru 2 games.

What's he doing on the other 50% ?

As for pressure at the top of a 3 or 5 step drop - That's generally a blitz issue .... who's responsible for that ?!

Pre snap the QB has to identify potential blitzers and assign a TE / RB to them OR get the ball out before the blitz can reach him.

A big part of the problem in this area is Watson's belief in his ability to evade those potential blitzers , He's said something to that effect several times in the past.
This leads to him hanging onto the ball longer than most ... which leads to him running for his life or a big play - the former more than the latter.

Thing is , that elusiveness is exactly what makes Watson "special" .... If you ask him not to do that .... you have an average QB , not a special one.

The solution to all this is to put his ass under center and run a whole lot of play action particularly with multi TE sets ... getting him outside on passing plays will put a lot of pressure on defenses while letting him do what he's good at.

This RPO crap they run , they don't run right .... so why the hell run it ?
Click to expand...
I'm not thinking quite straight, but for the bolded part, how many passes were dropped? Fumbled?

Even with those, Watson still completed over 66% for 528 yards.
I wonder what the splits are?
 
otisbean said:
im surprised they haven’t tried the pistol, at least I don’t remember us utilizing it much
Click to expand...
1 8:11 1 10 RAV 13 Lamar Jackson sacked by J.J. Watt for -4 yards
Ravens made a mistake "optioning" JJ Watt.
A problem with the pistol here; when Lamar turned around from the ball fake, he didn't have enough time to see Watt.
The Texans only rushed 5 against 7 (including the RB), but they did show an 8-man run blitz .
There was some kinda of miscommunication such that the 2nd TE 86 continued onto his route, leaving the RT having to decide who to take on.
 
Mangler said:
How is it that the offensive line regressed so much after looking like a decent unit last season? Devlin and O’Brien need to get ran out of town ASAP! Both are hot, smelly garbage!
Click to expand...

#1 in run block win rate
#31 in pass block win rate.


As for the win rate statistic - Last year they were 8th in Pass block win rate as a team. Despite that , several people said they were bad saying the stat was useless .... kinda funny that its an accepted part of the discussion now.

It's only going to get worse this week - The Steelers pass defense is #1 in the league in completion percentage against , 2nd in Interceptions , 2nd in sacks , 1st in blitz percentage , 1st in pressure rate , 9th in yards per attempt and 3rd in QBR against.
The rush defense is #1 in the league giving up only 2.9 per attempt and yards per game.
 
Corrosion said:
Watson is being pressured / hit / sacked / knocked down on just under 50% of his total drop backs thru 2 games.

What's he doing on the other 50% ?

As for pressure at the top of a 3 or 5 step drop - That's generally a blitz issue .... who's responsible for that ?!

Pre snap the QB has to identify potential blitzers and assign a TE / RB to them OR get the ball out before the blitz can reach him.

A big part of the problem in this area is Watson's belief in his ability to evade those potential blitzers , He's said something to that effect several times in the past.
This leads to him hanging onto the ball longer than most ... which leads to him running for his life or a big play - the former more than the latter.

Thing is , that elusiveness is exactly what makes Watson "special" .... If you ask him not to do that .... you have an average QB , not a special one.

The solution to all this is to put his ass under center and run a whole lot of play action particularly with multi TE sets ... getting him outside on passing plays will put a lot of pressure on defenses while letting him do what he's good at.

This RPO crap they run , they don't run right .... so why the hell run it ?
Click to expand...
I'm not disagreeing, but I wanted to concentrate on the O-Line. Blitzing is not the only issue I see, its also gap responsibility when blocking against normal fronts or stunts without extra rushers.
 
Corrosion said:
Who said anything at all about the score?

~50% of passing plays see pressure.

~50% don't.

No one answered the question about the latter half.


This is a very small percentage of plays in the grand scheme. It happens to every team / QB on occasion.

As for the play shown here - How bout that huge lane up the middle ?!
Click to expand...
What about that hole?
What are you suggesting?
 
Corrosion said:
#1 in run block win rate
#31 in pass block win rate.


As for the win rate statistic - Last year they were 8th in Pass block win rate as a team. Despite that , several people said they were bad saying the stat was useless .... kinda funny that its an accepted part of the discussion now.

It's only going to get worse this week - The Steelers pass defense is #1 in the league in completion percentage against , 2nd in Interceptions , 2nd in sacks , 1st in blitz percentage , 1st in pressure rate , 9th in yards per attempt and 3rd in QBR against.
The rush defense is #1 in the league giving up only 2.9 per attempt and yards per game.
Click to expand...
I don't know.
I'm always leary about stats because there are always something unaccounted for.

Let's say, to the extreme, a defense only send one pass rusher.
Well, guess what? The pass blocking rate of the offensive line would go through the roof now, wouldn't it?
 
banned1976 said:
Who knows about that lane up the middle? He's not taking those lanes anymore. I don't know why. It appears unless he has the sidelines to bail him out, he's not taking off. He's become extremely hesitant to take any type of risk. I'd love to know why.
Click to expand...

Since he blew out his ACL this is who DW4 has become. I dont expect this to change.
 
Corrosion said:
#1 in run block win rate
#31 in pass block win rate.


As for the win rate statistic - Last year they were 8th in Pass block win rate as a team. Despite that , several people said they were bad saying the stat was useless .... kinda funny that its an accepted part of the discussion now.

It's only going to get worse this week - The Steelers pass defense is #1 in the league in completion percentage against , 2nd in Interceptions , 2nd in sacks , 1st in blitz percentage , 1st in pressure rate , 9th in yards per attempt and 3rd in QBR against.
The rush defense is #1 in the league giving up only 2.9 per attempt and yards per game.
Click to expand...

Those kinds of stats make the DVOA geeks have to go take a cold shower.

I believe after seeing this about the Steelers defense, we can safely say after Sunday it will be 8 bad games and counting.
 
If I was Watson.....I'd pull my OL to the side and let them know that I'll audible out of every play called and they need to be on their toes. Straight-up dare OB to pull Watson and bench him with his brand new contract.

If OB the GM gets angry enough.....he need only pick up the phone and call the Bears. I'm sure he could immediately ship Watson and McCarron to the Bears and the Bears would happily send OB Trubisky and Foles in return. I guess OB would feel like he won the lottery.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If I was Watson.....I'd pull my OL to the side and let them know that I'll audible out of every play called and they need to be on their toes. Straight-up dare OB to pull Watson and bench him with his brand new contract.

If OB the GM gets angry enough.....he need only pick up the phone and call the Bears. I'm sure he could immediately ship Watson and McCarron to the Bears and the Bears would happily send OB Trubisky and Foles in return. I guess OB would feel like he won the lottery.
Click to expand...

I would like to see this too, of course when DW4 fails we would hear the same excuses from a few here on this MB.
 
Scharp & Kelemete pretty much split snaps at LG yesterday. Not a good sign on many levels. Is Scharp turning into another high draft pick this team is failing to develop? As bad as Zach Fulton has been playing, he's still getting 100% of snaps at RG. Is Scharp really playing that much worse than Fulton?
 
dream_team said:
Scharp & Kelemete pretty much split snaps at LG yesterday. Not a good sign on many levels. Is Scharp turning into another high draft pick this team is failing to develop? As bad as Zach Fulton has been playing, he's still getting 100% of snaps at RG. Is Scharp really playing that much worse than Fulton?
Click to expand...

OB's a ducking idiot.
 
dream_team said:
I see this occur way too much with our O-line. Someone smarter than me, who is at fault here? Who's getting chewed out in the film review?

View attachment 6898
Click to expand...


Two things - Identifying presnap - apparently they didn't (Watson / Martin).

Martin is the main issue on that play , he has to let go of that double team and deal with that free rusher.

You can see Fulton saw that and took Martin's guy - Martin didn't disengage until it was too late.
 
Corrosion said:
Two things - Identifying presnap - apparently they didn't (Watson / Martin).

Martin is the main issue on that play , he has to let go of that double team and deal with that free rusher.

You can see Fulton saw that and took Martin's guy - Martin didn't disengage until it was too late.
Click to expand...

You mentioned Watson. What should have DW done differently?
 
dream_team said:
You mentioned Watson. What should have DW done differently?
Click to expand...


Identify presnap the potential rusher.

What's the down and distance on this play ?

That's SS Kenny Vaccaro on the delayed stunt .... Must have been 2nd or 3rd and + with the Titans in a nickel / dime package as #31 Kevin Byard is also up in the box.

Either of them could have been the 4th rusher ... Beasley (#44) actually drops into coverage after initially selling the rush as Vaccaro blows by Martin / Kelemete .... That was a pretty well designed & executed stunt.

They essentially lost 5 on 4 ....
 
dream_team said:
I see this occur way too much with our O-line. Someone smarter than me, who is at fault here? Who's getting chewed out in the film review?

View attachment 6898
Click to expand...

1st, let me say it is inconceivable that a talented freak of nature can come off the end like that, unblocked, unchipped & not get a QB hit.

2nd, first I'm going to lay blame on #4. Neither the TE, the Hback or the RT believed they were responsible for said freak of nature coming off the end. It is plausible Watson noticed the blitz, called for the HB to be the hot read where the TE or the RT should block the DE. But he forgot to say whatever he was supposed to say to tell the TE/HB/RT to block the DE.

I honestly have no idea how that communication is supposed to go, but I think it's obvious it didn't go the way it was supposed to.

As far as Fulton & Martin, looks like Fulton sees the issue, but can't get around Martin who looks like he's expecting to pass off the DT. Again, at least two people on the wrong page.
 
Corrosion said:
Identifying him as a potential rusher presnap so he can be accounted for - Its obvious that didn't happen as Martin was pretty much clueless that he could / would rush , otherwise he'd have disengaged when Fulton took on his rusher.
Click to expand...
Wait.....How do you identify pre snap a DB coming on a delayed stunt? If you identify him as a potential rusher, isn't everyone a potential rusher? This OL struggles enough with the man directly in front of them. Now we want to complicate the matter by telling them that either safety might be a potential rusher?

Plain and simple. This OL just struggles with stunts and delayed stunts are never handled properly. Too often, Martin unnecessarily helps a guard on a double team or doesn't disengage fast enough from the double team. To their credit, this was a well designed defensive call. They even anticipated the RB as the hot read and had it covered.

BTW, was the RB suppose to chip Clowney? Howard looks like his feet are in cement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top