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State of the O-line

The team invested too much on this OL for this poor play. And it's both pass pro & run blocking.

The offense has no identity. There isn't anything they do well. It was really evident in the 4th down plays. We ran the ugliest PA boot. With the Ravens, you just knew they were going to run up the middle or Lamar would bounce it outside. Nothing we could do to stop 1 yard.
 
Lucky said:
The good news is that I think the Texans have found their RG of the future. Tytus Howard. Howard has no business playing on the edge. But, he should be much more comfortable if kicked inside.

Of course, that would leave a hole at RT. But, what's new?
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I would put Kelemete at RT and Howard at RG.

Devlin sucks at evaluating OL too as well as coaching them up.
 
Lucky said:
The good news is that I think the Texans have found their RG of the future. Tytus Howard. Howard has no business playing on the edge. But, he should be much more comfortable if kicked inside.

Of course, that would leave a hole at RT. But, what's new?
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IIRC, When Fulton came here he was used to playing LG but we stuck him at RG. How about Scharping at RT, Howard RG, Martin at center cause Bill says so, Fuller LG and no false starts anymore Tunsil at LT?
 
amazing80 said:
Our perfect OL is

Tunsil, Scharping, Martin, Howard, Johnson
Click to expand...

If I had to try one combination for the next game:

Tunsil, Scharping, Fulton, Qvale, Howard

I think Martin at C hurts both OG's. When the OG's aren't sure what's happening from one play to the next....the next to suffer could be the OT's. Fortunately Tunsil is a veteran but Howard is essentially a rookie in his second season.

I'd like to see for a second time if Fulton is a better C than Martin. If he can be the anchor then the OG's can focus on their jobs. I'd like to see if Qvale's veteran play at RG could help Howard as well.

All this is wonderful but the biggest problem is OB's hand selected OL guru Devlin. This guy is an issue but in all honesty I'm not certain Devlin deserves 100% of the blame if the core issue may be the flippant execution of the playbook or change of offensive strategy from week to week. It would be difficult to build continuity under these circumstances.
 
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I told y’all last year and after the 2019 season was over that that oline marginally improved. But a select few kept trying to convince everyone on here that they improved tremendously. Well gents they regressed from the marginally improvement back to dumpster juice again.


But hey this is not on coaching, it’s on Watson
 
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Texansballer74 said:
I told y’all last year and after the 2019 season was over that that oline marginally improved. But a select few kept trying to convince everyone on here that they improved tremendously. Well gents they regressed from the marginally improvement back to dumpster juice again.


But hey this is not on coaching, it’s on Watson
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DW4 has his share of issues for sure, but the pressure to me seems to be coming from 1 guy...Howard. He just hasn't looked good at all. Against KC, Fulton & Howard looked pretty bad..Fulton seemed to have shored his game up against Baltimore...he had 1 bad play where he jumped on a double team with Howard too early & let an inside LB in, but beyond that, he played pretty well.........imo. Howard still looks confused out there & looks like his ankle is bothering him much more than he's letting on b/c his kickstep back in pass pro is slow and he's not getting deep enough. His hand usage is also garbage & he needs massive improvement there.

It's important to note that with him though, he's still effectively in his rookie year...wasn't he IR'ed last year?
 
Mr teX said:
DW4 has his share of issues for sure, but the pressure to me seems to be coming from 1 guy...Howard. He just hasn't looked good at all. Against KC, Fulton & Howard looked pretty bad..Fulton seemed to have shored his game up against Baltimore...he had 1 bad play where he jumped on a double team with Howard too early & let an inside LB in, but beyond that, he played pretty well.........imo. Howard still looks confused out there & looks like his ankle is bothering him much more than he's letting on b/c his kickstep back in pass pro is slow and he's not getting deep enough. His hand usage is also garbage & he needs massive improvement there.

It's important to note that with him though, he's still effectively in his rookie year...wasn't he IR'ed last year?
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I don't know where they get their stats, but on 610 this morning, they said Howard & Fulton allowed 6 QB pressures... EACH! Tytus looks so much worse than he did the first two weeks of last season. I hope you're right that something is bothering him physically. But at the same time, in his short career, it seems like something is always bothering him physically?
 
Can someone explain to me what Nick Martin is supposed to be doing on this play? My untrained eye tells me he should have disengaged on the double-team alot earlier and moved to the 2nd level to pick up the LB. Looks like could have gotten a big gain if Martin picks up that LB. (this is the first play of the game)

firstplay.gif
 
dream_team said:
I don't know where they get their stats, but on 610 this morning, they said Howard & Fulton allowed 6 QB pressures... EACH! Tytus looks so much worse than he did the first two weeks of last season. I hope you're right that something is bothering him physically. But at the same time, in his short career, it seems like something is always bothering him physically?
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Haven't been listening to any of those guys since the game except sparingly........but a few of them are known to throw out bad numbers to make things seem worse than they were. Against KC 1 of them said that we gave up 24 total pressures...Stoerner basically said that those numbers aren't really accurate b/c more than a few of them weren't really pressures and weren't on the o-line, they were on DW4 for not getting rid of the ball.

As far Howard, he was questionable coming into the game with an ankle..then he got hurt again in the Baltimore game, but came back in....
 
dream_team said:
Can someone explain to me what Nick Martin is supposed to be doing on this play? My untrained eye tells me he should have disengaged on the double-team alot earlier and moved to the 2nd level to pick up the LB. Looks like could have gotten a big gain if Martin picks up that LB. (this is the first play of the game)

View attachment 6654
Click to expand...

He's helping Scharping initially. I know what you're thinking..he should've remained free & went to the 2nd level to grab the LB, but he has no reason to do that b/c the LB's aren't up on the line & neither are threatening to blitz; they're actually pretty far off. If this were a downhill running situation sure he should get up to the next level, but DJ has his choice of 1 hole or the other in this particular play set up. He comes to the A gap, sees....... Queen? so he ops to go B & Queen slides over there....just a great play by Queen really.
 
Mr teX said:
Haven't been listening to any of those guys since the game except sparingly........but a few of them are known to throw out bad numbers to make things seem worse than they were. Against KC 1 of them said that we gave up 24 total pressures...Stoerner basically said that those numbers aren't really accurate b/c more than a few of them weren't really pressures and weren't on the o-line, they were on DW4 for not getting rid of the ball.

As far Howard, he was questionable coming into the game with an ankle..then he got hurt again in the Baltimore game, but came back in....
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Yup. Seth Payne mentioned how these pressure numbers are all over the place because there's no clear definition of a "pressure".
 
Mr teX said:
He's helping Scharping initially. I know what you're thinking..he should've remained free & went to the 2nd level to grab the LB, but he has no reason to do that b/c the LB's aren't up on the line & neither are threatening to blitz; they're actually pretty far off. If this were a downhill running situation sure he should get up to the next level, but DJ has his choice of 1 hole or the other in this particular play set up. He comes to the A gap, sees....... Queen? so he ops to go B & Queen slides over there....just a great play by Queen really.
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I don't think Nick should have remained free, but rather give a quick "chip" to the DT to help Scharp, then release to the 2nd level. I just remember seeing this done by Chris Myers alot.

I think what you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) is this is an RPO, not a designed run play, so Nick has to pass protect first. If this is the case, then why does Tunsil immediately shoot out to the 2nd level? To me, this looks like a designed run the whole way.
 
dream_team said:
I don't think Nick should have remained free, but rather give a quick "chip" to the DT to help Scharp, then release to the 2nd level. I just remember seeing this done by Chris Myers alot.

I think what you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) is this is an RPO, not a designed run play, so Nick has to pass protect first. If this is the case, then why does Tunsil immediately shoot out to the 2nd level? To me, this looks like a designed run the whole way.
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Yes, its an RPO "look" but i agree, a run all the way imo. They run that little flats throw to Akins/Fells off of this look...which is why the LB's bite so hard left. Tunsil is backside & is responsible for picking up 1 of those scraping LB's in the event they don't bite as hard as they actually did. IF they didn't bite that hard, the LB Tunsil picks up is sitting in the A gap & Queen is sitting B gap...that would've been the ideal way to cover that play for them...Queen just made a bad ass play playing 2 holes by himself.
 
Mr teX said:
Yes, its an RPO "look" but i agree, a run all the way imo. They run that little flats throw to Akins/Fells off of this look...which is why the LB's bite so hard left. Tunsil is backside & is responsible for picking up 1 of those scraping LB's in the event they don't bite as hard as they actually did. IF they didn't bite that hard, the LB Tunsil picks up is sitting in the A gap & Queen is sitting B gap...that would've been the ideal way to cover that play for them...Queen just made a bad ass play playing 2 holes by himself.
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It also helps that Campbell was able to shed his block rather easily to make the tackle.

I mainly ask because too many times, I see Nick Martin help double someone, while other defenders go unblocked. Just seems odd.
 
dream_team said:
It also helps that Campbell was able to shed his block rather easily to make the tackle.

I mainly ask because too many times, I see Nick Martin help double someone, while other defenders go unblocked. Just seems odd.
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You block inside out & pressure directly up the middle is pretty much every qb’s kryptonite...so if there’s anyone close to him, he’s going to help-block 1st ..........if there’s no apparent blitzer that he has to take himself or if there’s someone directly over him.

but yea
 
dream_team said:
Can someone explain to me what Nick Martin is supposed to be doing on this play? My untrained eye tells me he should have disengaged on the double-team alot earlier and moved to the 2nd level to pick up the LB. Looks like could have gotten a big gain if Martin picks up that LB. (this is the first play of the game)

View attachment 6654
Click to expand...
TBH I don't think he had a shot at either LB. The one to his right went to the right of 73. If anything Howard 71 should have released but I doubt he could have contributed. I would have set play up for Martin to block as he did and the Left guard 74 to not engage but lead RB thru right of center hole. Even then Johnson would probably still go outside and be tackled. Just not a good play at all. Looks like Watson should have kept the rock following 88.
 
Mr teX said:
You block inside out & pressure directly up the middle is pretty much every qb’s kryptonite...so if there’s anyone close to him, he’s going to help-block 1st ..........if there’s no apparent blitzer that he has to take himself or if there’s someone directly over him.

but yea
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Your point is valid and you would think Martin would do exactly what you describe. However, you get this too often. This is a perfect example of what @dream_team is referencing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1306668454938841088
 
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dream_team said:
Can someone explain to me what Nick Martin is supposed to be doing on this play? My untrained eye tells me he should have disengaged on the double-team alot earlier and moved to the 2nd level to pick up the LB. Looks like could have gotten a big gain if Martin picks up that LB. (this is the first play of the game)

View attachment 6654
Click to expand...
It's really hard to say (after watching the other video of Martin staring down the pass rusher, and then calmly moved aside for him to have a direct shot at Watson) what Martin was supposed to be doing.

When you talk about remember seeing Myers getting to the second level, that was off of a zone blocking scheme.
The players don't necessarily attempt to double team a defender before one going on to the next level; it's just the concept of zone blocking = block anything that is in your way (your zone).
In a "pure" zone scheme for an outside zone run, for example, the offensive linemen (and the TEs) move in unison either laterally or at roughly the same angle before heading downfield, blocking whoever that is in their sight.

Then in his later years with the Texans, Kubiak mixed in some gap concepts here:
https://www.viqtorysports.com/the-gap-scheme-how-its-run-in-every-offense/#:~:text=The Gap principals are simple,these are the general principal.

But as the game evolves, so do the blocking scheme.
There are all types of mix and match nowadays, it's hard to tell.

You look at the first running play here by the Chiefs for example:
It's zone blocking to the play side and gap blocking on the back side.

And then you'll have the TE in motion, the linemen pulling, and all kind of variations.
So, it's not easy to tell what a player is supposed to be doing on a certain play.
Sometimes, they simply miss their assignment and we wouldn't know for sure.
 
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Earl34 said:
Your point is valid and you would think Martin would do exactly what you describe. However, you get this too often. This is a perfect example of what @dream_team is referencing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1306668454938841088
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Wow and some people expect Watson to trust these jokers! Come on man. Martin had no reason to come his man to go help block another joker. I wonder what was said when they went back to review this tape.
 
76Texan said:
It's really hard to say (after watching the other video of Martin staring down the pass rusher, and then calmly moved aside for him to have a direct shot at Watson) what Martin was supposed to be doing.

When you talk about remember seeing Myers getting to the second level, that was off of a zone blocking scheme.
The players don't necessarily attempt to double team a defender before one going on to the next level; it's just the concept of zone blocking = block anything that is in your way (your zone).
In a "pure" zone scheme for an outside zone run, for example, the offensive linemen (and the TEs) move in unison either laterally or at roughly the same angle before heading downfield, blocking whoever that is in their sight.

Then in his later years with the Texans, Kubiak mixed in some gap concepts here:
https://www.viqtorysports.com/the-gap-scheme-how-its-run-in-every-offense/#:~:text=The Gap principals are simple,these are the general principal.

But as the game evolves, so do the blocking scheme.
There are all types of mix and match nowadays, it's hard to tell.

You look at the first running play here by the Chiefs for example:
It's zone blocking to the play side and gap blocking on the back side.

And then you'll have the TE in motion, the linemen pulling, and all kind of variations.
So, it's not east to tell what a player is supposed to be doing on a certain play.
Sometimes, they simply miss their assignment and we wouldn't know for sure.
Click to expand...

The issue here is Watson didn’t purchase Rolex watches for all of his linemen. Therefore, they’re taking turns in letting these jokers have free reign on Watson. I’ve seen Howard, Fulton and Tunsil do this as well. I haven’t seen Scharping pull this stunt yet.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Wow and some people expect Watson to trust these jokers! Come on man. Martin had no reason to come his man to go help block another joker. I wonder what was said when they went back to review this tape.
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On the second play of the Ravens' game, I saw Howard pulling and becoming a lead blocker on a running play. He got in the hole one on one on a DB and instead of just attacking the DB and pushing him backwards 5-10 yards, he pauses and stutter steps in the hole waiting for the DB to come to him. As a result, David Johnson couldn't make a decision off the block, runs into Howard's back for a 2 yard game. If he aggressively attacks the DB, it's an easy 5-10 yard gain. Instead, he plugged the hole for the defense.

I really don't know or understand what the OL is doing and it appears they don't know either. That's the state of the OL.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
Bro how can anyone say this line has improved. This is terrible football.
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With the current state of this OL and their inconsistent play, how can anyone objectively evaluate Watson? I know all OLs give up sacks and Watson contributes to some of the sacks. However, until I see that Watson can consistently finish a three step drop without constantly being under pressure, I cannot say he's a bust, will never win a championship or he sucks.
 
There is no way in hell we can judge Watson’s ability with that OL. The guy is taking a pounding on the inside. His mental clock is being ruined with each passing season and game. He will end up as bad as Carr if things don’t improve drastically up front for him
 
Earl34 said:
With the current state of this OL and their inconsistent play, how can anyone objectively evaluate Watson? I know all OLs give up sacks and Watson contributes to some of the sacks. However, until I see that Watson can consistently finish a three step drop without constantly being under pressure, I cannot say he's a bust, will never win a championship or he sucks.
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amazing80 said:
There is no way in hell we can judge Watson’s ability with that OL. The guy is taking a pounding on the inside. His mental clock is being ruined with each passing season and game. He will end up as bad as Carr if things don’t improve drastically up front for him
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They said the same thing about David Carr, but some of us knew.

I'm on the kid's side. I want him to be the best QB in the league. Most of all, I want him to prove steelbtexan wrong.

But he doesn't want to run when he needs to run. I don't know why, but it's what it is.

He's not good enough to sit in the pocket & pick teams apart, not like Peyton Manning or Philip Rivers even. He doesn't have their feel for the pocket, & he's not a rhythm passer.

He's got to start making plays with his legs to keep the chains moving, give his defense time to recover, get into scoring range.

Until those other 10 guys are seeing the field the way he does, he's got to make up for it.

I believe he can, I've seen it. But instead of making a play after the third guy misses him, he needs to get up field after the first guy misses him.
 
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