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State of the O-line

CloakNNNdagger said:
That's a terribly inaccurate and unfair statement. After his Lisfranc foot injury, Schaub's foot was not able to listen very well to his football decisions.
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If you say so doc. And if that was the case he should’ve retired verse costing his team in a very negative way. When I played we were taught if you can’t go then sit out
 
Texansballer74 said:
If you say so doc. And if that was the case he should’ve retired verse costing his team in a very negative way. When I played we were taught if you can’t go then sit out
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Apparently you didn't get that he still can play at a high level for a few games but not a full season. Look at how he's played while backing up Ryan.
 
Corrosion said:
Jimmy G & Shanahan are running Gary's WCO …. Any QB who's ever played in that system will tell you its a QB's best friend.

I think it suits Watson perfectly. He's mobile and can take advantage of the stuff designed to get him out of the pocket , he can get the ball out quick when the routes demand it & he's very accurate on the deep ball and he'd get a lot of opportunities to do that from play action.

The only issue is if he can operate under center. So far we haven't seen that and there's really only one reason a QB isn't under center and that's a question of vision. I'd go deeper into that theory but it would be fruitless ….
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The season following Garoppolo's ACL rupture.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1271836981534896128
 

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CloakNNNdagger said:
The season following Garoppolo's ACL rupture.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1271836981534896128
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Tough call overall, but Jimmy really showed a lot of concerns in the SB to me with how hard he folded in the 4th quarter, and I'm a strong Jimmy supporter. He was the opposite of Tom Brady in that SB, and even missed a wide open TD to win the game. The two playoff games before that was all the running game that did everything. I'll go with Watson for now.
 
Texecutioner said:
Tough call overall, but Jimmy really showed a lot of concerns in the SB to me with how hard he folded in the 4th quarter, and I'm a strong Jimmy supporter. He was the opposite of Tom Brady in that SB, and even missed a wide open TD to win the game. The two playoff games before that was all the running game that did everything. I'll go with Watson for now.
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I polled my fantasy football league, which 10 of the 14 are 49er fans. Interestingly, all 10 chose they'd rather have Watson. Only one guy chose Jimmy, and he's a Dolphins fan.
 
dream_team said:
I polled my fantasy football league, which 10 of the 14 are 49er fans. Interestingly, all 10 chose they'd rather have Watson. Only one guy chose Jimmy, and he's a Dolphins fan.
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I think the choice between the two is a difficult one …. kinda like Schaub / Watson. They are so different and what makes one a good QB , the other struggles with.

Garoppolo's ceiling is Schaub at his best - but he's not there yet …. Watson's ceiling is much higher because of his ability to make a big play out of any play but that's also a liability , more of mindset than actual ability - he has to pick his spots and otherwise be consistent and move the chains.

I think a lot of people really underestimate how good Schaub was … he may have had the best play fake ever. Can't count the times he fooled everyone in the stadium , including the camera man - then AJ doesn't have a defender within 10-15 yards of him when 2-3 guys are responsible for him.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The Bengals evidently recognized that this is a significant down side to Reader and had him lose weight so that he could become quicker, more of a pass rush factor and a 3 down player. By limiting his carbs during the offseason, he has managed to weigh in now at 320 lbs............down from ~350 lbs....................a weight loss of ~30 lbs. Such a weight loss may affect his run stuffing ability and do little for his pass rush ability. When you look back at his Clemson days, he always had problems with weight control, vacillating between 320-340...............and during his entire college career, he was a 2 down rotational player, not unlike his stint with the Texans.

I don't believe that the Bengals will be getting their money's worth. Drastic player weight losses don't tend to consistently translate well to increased strength and balanced overall performance improvement (with significant weight loss, the tendency is........... the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away). In fact, with his weight drop in the NFL (as compared to what could be the case in college competition), he may very well be less not more the player he was with the Texans.
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So if the Bengals were able to recognize that and still pay him why not the Texans?
 
Corrosion said:
I think the choice between the two is a difficult one …. kinda like Schaub / Watson. They are so different and what makes one a good QB , the other struggles with.

Garoppolo's ceiling is Schaub at his best - but he's not there yet …. Watson's ceiling is much higher because of his ability to make a big play out of any play but that's also a liability , more of mindset than actual ability - he has to pick his spots and otherwise be consistent and move the chains.

I think a lot of people really underestimate how good Schaub was … he may have had the best play fake ever. Can't count the times he fooled everyone in the stadium , including the camera man - then AJ doesn't have a defender within 10-15 yards of him when 2-3 guys are responsible for him.
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I think alot of 9er fans feel Jimmy is limited and may have reached his potential. The common comparison I hear around here is Matt Hasslebeck. I also like your comparison to Schaub.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
What is the game quota that teams use before game planning for a QB? The way Watson was eating up offenses, DC’s Would be fools for not planning for him. OB was their best all ally b/c he’s the one who restricted Watson’s capabilities.

No one can say for sure what Watson may have been capable of had OB stuck with the existing plan.
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That must be it.

OBrien can “unleash” Watson anytime he wants, but is just choosing not to for whatever reason.

Very plausible.
 
Corrosion said:
Really , you can decipher the play with much accuracy on film , particularly the type of film we have today with camera's capturing so many different angles including the QB's viewpoint and 180 degrees of that.
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That's not what I got from watching the Watson/Warner film break down. Watson mentioned there will be a similar play design, but the options he has differs. Sometimes he's handing off no matter what, sometimes he has the option to either handoff or pass, then at times he has the option to handoff/pass/keep. I don't see how you can decipher from film what options he truly has.

Also, with all of the choice routes going on, hard to decipher whether a receiver ran the correct route or not. Maybe he had a choice route, maybe he didn't? He can you tell from film?
 
dream_team said:
I polled my fantasy football league, which 10 of the 14 are 49er fans. Interestingly, all 10 chose they'd rather have Watson. Only one guy chose Jimmy, and he's a Dolphins fan.
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Not all that surprising after many of them have mainly that SB performance on their mind just like I do. That isn't exactly fair at all, but its hard to dismiss when you consider if your team ever gets to the big moment. Outside of that, Jimmy has been nothing but a winner there, and has a great arm to continue to get better. He really hasn't started all that long when you think about it. A lot of other fans aren't as aware of what Watson struggles with as far as his picket passing either. Will he get better with that? We will see. Again, I'd slightly edge out Watson in this either way.
 
dream_team said:
I think alot of 9er fans feel Jimmy is limited and may have reached his potential. The common comparison I hear around here is Matt Hasslebeck. I also like your comparison to Schaub.
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Hasselback isn't that bad of a comparison. Jimmy has a much better skillset that Schaub. Has a better arm, and is a lot more mobile. He throws off the run better as well.
 
Texecutioner said:
Not all that surprising after many of them have mainly that SB performance on their mind just like I do. That isn't exactly fair at all, but its hard to dismiss when you consider if your team ever gets to the big moment. Outside of that, Jimmy has been nothing but a winner there, and has a great arm to continue to get better. He really hasn't started all that long when you think about it. A lot of other fans aren't as aware of what Watson struggles with as far as his picket passing either. Will he get better with that? We will see. Again, I'd slightly edge out Watson in this either way.
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The common Jimmy complaint I get from them is his accuracy and decision making. (sounds alot like Schaub)
 
dream_team said:
The common Jimmy complaint I get from them is his accuracy and decision making. (sounds alot like Schaub)
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Based on what you said, there are like 500 ex QB's that sound like Schaub then. Other than them both being white and dark haired, there really isn't anything you have added that makes a comparison. Where were all these Schaub comparisons when Jimmy G came into the draft? With Jimmy's mobility, I just as easily make a comparison to Hoyer or Rosenfels skill wise. Those also wouldn't be all that accurate either.
 
JB said:
Pre-injury, Schaub was very accurate and a good decision maker. His flaws were weak arm and lack of mobility. Kubiak wouldn't have picked him if he had accuracy and decision making issues
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I was ok with his accuracy, but I recall a common TT complaint on him was he wasn't accurate enough to lead receivers. The bone-headed throws were also a common complaint around here.
 
JB said:
Pre-injury, Schaub was very accurate and a good decision maker. His flaws were weak arm and lack of mobility. Kubiak wouldn't have picked him if he had accuracy and decision making issues
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Agreed. Schaub was a pretty accurate throwing QB and always looked like he threw one of the most catchable balls since he threw so softly. That isn't always the best attribute for a QB in all situations, but I don't ever recall Schaub being known as a guy with poor accuracy. Hell, what good would he have been at the position period then? He was a statue mobility wise, so being an accurate thrower was the only thing he could have going for him.
 
dream_team said:
I was ok with his accuracy, but I recall a common TT complaint on him was he wasn't accurate enough to lead receivers. The bone-headed throws were also a common complaint around here.
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His receivers would almost have to come back to the ball all the time. Well it seemed like it. The offensive scheme that Kubiak employed made it very easy for Matt’s decision making. Especially when you have a darn good running game.
 
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KarlK said:
That must be it.

OBrien can “unleash” Watson anytime he wants, but is just choosing not to for whatever reason.

Very plausible.
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No...OB just wanted his offense in place. He obviously chose not to modify the offense on a permanent basis.
dream_team said:
That's not what I got from watching the Watson/Warner film break down. Watson mentioned there will be a similar play design, but the options he has differs. Sometimes he's handing off no matter what, sometimes he has the option to either handoff or pass, then at times he has the option to handoff/pass/keep. I don't see how you can decipher from film what options he truly has.

Also, with all of the choice routes going on, hard to decipher whether a receiver ran the correct route or not. Maybe he had a choice route, maybe he didn't? He can you tell from film?
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Lucky said:
Jimmy Garoppolo with the 116 career rushing yards and the 5 second forty? I could compare his mobility to a sloth with a pulled hammy.
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And you would be wrong. Before his ACL he was actually quite good at moving around in the pocket and being able to run for 5 yds on a 3rd and 3. There's more to mobility than just running with the football. Being able to effectively run QB sneaks/Boots etc... (Like Brady does) is just as important as running for a long TD like DW4 has done many times.
 
steelbtexan said:
And you would be wrong. Before his ACL he was actually quite good at moving around in the pocket and being able to run for 5 yds on a 3rd and 3. There's more to mobility than just running with the football. Being able to effectively run QB sneaks/Boots etc... (Like Brady does) is just as important as running for a long TD like DW4 has done many times.
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He was just trying to argue for the sake of it. He had no real intention of seeking any truth with that. Lol!
 
Lucky said:
Are we talking about now or the past? Garoppolo has never had good mobility. Now? He’s a statue. Garoppolo has 22 1st downs rushing in 42 games. Watson has 80 in 38 games. Even mentioning the two in the same sentence in regards to mobility is the height of absurdity.
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His mobility is like Brady's

There's a big difference between being a statue and not having mobility within the pocket or on boots etc...

You can't play in today's NFL if you're a statue. We're talking about 2 totally different things.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
No...OB just wanted his offense in place. He obviously chose not to modify the offense on a permanent basis.
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So you actually think that OBrien, anytime he wants, can just simply "do what he did for those 6 games in 2017" and have his offense rack up any amount of points he wants. But instead, he is choosing to be more conservative and score fewer points.

Bless your little heart.
 
KarlK said:
So you actually think that OBrien, anytime he wants, can just simply "do what he did for those 6 games in 2017" and have his offense rack up any amount of points he wants. But instead, he is choosing to be more conservative and score fewer points.

Bless your little heart.
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Dude this is our team so we know more than you guys looking in from the outside. The reason why Opt said that was because Bill O’Brien stated after that season we were going to see a different offense in 2018. He also did this because Watson went down with an ACL injury in 2017.


Man tell us about your team and their number one quarterback in the NFL.
 
KarlK said:
So you actually think that OBrien, anytime he wants, can just simply "do what he did for those 6 games in 2017" and have his offense rack up any amount of points he wants. But instead, he is choosing to be more conservative and score fewer points.

Bless your little heart.
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Quoted for truth
 
Texansballer74 said:
Dude this is our team so we know more than you guys looking in from the outside. The reason why Opt said that was because Bill O’Brien stated after that season we were going to see a different offense in 2018. He also did this because Watson went down with an ACL injury in 2017.


Man tell us about your team and their number one quarterback in the NFL.
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Makes sense. That must be why Watson was worse in 2019 than 2018.....lol

Oh, and i forgot my favorite Texan homer mantra: they DID decide to "just do what they did for those 6 games in 2017" against the Falcons last year!!! And Watson had a huge game (which had nothing to do with the atrocious and depleted pass defense of the Falcons that day)!!! And also, as luck would have it, that was the one time the entire season Tim Kelly was heavily involved in the offense!!! And he is completely in charge this year, so you can expect what you saw that game, every week now in 2020!!! It's just that simple.

Unfortunately for last year, O'Brien decided he didn't want to score 50+ points every week, he only wanted to the one time against Atlanta, so he went back to "making" Watson not be nearly as productive.
 
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KarlK said:
So you actually think that OBrien, anytime he wants, can just simply "do what he did for those 6 games in 2017" and have his offense rack up any amount of points he wants. But instead, he is choosing to be more conservative and score fewer points.

Bless your little heart.
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Actually if OB was even remotely as talented as Reid and other top coaches he would've ditched his tried and failed offense for the one that was being executed so successfully. Incorporate what was working with his playbook....aka Reid....and his results post six games might've been far more successful.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Actually if OB was even remotely as talented as Reid and other top coaches he would've ditched his tried and failed offense for the one that was being executed so successfully. Incorporate what was working with his playbook....aka Reid....and his results post six games might've been far more successful.
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Yeah, we’ve heard it all before.
Watson does good, it’s because of Watson. Watson does bad, it’s because of OBrien. Blah blah blah.
 
Texecutioner said:
Based on what you said, there are like 500 ex QB's that sound like Schaub then. Other than them both being white and dark haired, there really isn't anything you have added that makes a comparison. Where were all these Schaub comparisons when Jimmy G came into the draft? With Jimmy's mobility, I just as easily make a comparison to Hoyer or Rosenfels skill wise. Those also wouldn't be all that accurate either.
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Probably the biggest comparison is the offenses they play in …. that's pretty much the same system Schaub ran and Jimmy G is asked to do pretty much what Schaub was asked to do behind a solid OL and a very good ground game - don't make bad decisions / throws when you are called on to throw.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Dude this is our team so we know more than you guys looking in from the outside. The reason why Opt said that was because Bill O’Brien stated after that season we were going to see a different offense in 2018. He also did this because Watson went down with an ACL injury in 2017.


Man tell us about your team and their number one quarterback in the NFL.
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You know this how?
 
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