Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
CloakNNNdagger said:
Garoppolo routinely throws his receivers open.........turning what would seem like a tightly closing window when watching our games, into a legitimately open receiver for San Fran.
Click to expand...

He does indeed, but Shanahan also does a great job of using pre snap motion to clear areas to create easy throws as well. If you get a chance, re watch the Minn-SF game, they show several replays where a WR motioning across the formation leads to an easy throw to a wide open target
 
dream_team said:
Come 'on guys, stop getting rilled up by steelb. Not worth it. This is what he does every season. He finds some detail to harp on and injects it into every thread as the reason why the Texans won't succeed. Remember last season, where it was the poor OL? They invested in the OL, so he needs to find something new to blame.
Click to expand...
Hey we all love SteelB, I know I do, but because if you want some bugs killed he's our goto guy.
And when it comes to some solid analysis on OLine play/personnel he's often got some valuable input but as to the inner dynsmics
of the Texans organization he's just guessing and speculating like most of the rest of us.
 
Titans decision to hire Varabel paid off big in just two short years !
“I mean, I've changed cities, changed teams. It happens,” the Titans cornerback said Thursday of his team's decision in early 2018 to fire Mike Mularkey and hire Mike Vrabel. “Coaches change, and whatever reason was the reason to have a coaching change then, it was the right one.”


That’s clear now. But two years ago? Mularkey’s firing on Jan. 15, 2018 — two days days after the Titans lost to the Patriots in the AFC divisional round but nine days after they’d staged an improbable comeback against the Chiefs in the wild-card round — was met with mixed reactions. Mularkey went 19-15 in two full seasons after inheriting a team with the worst record in the NFL in both of the two seasons prior (including 2015, when he served as interim head coach for the final nine games).
***
***
Ole Call McNair is gonna have to make some smart moves and soon to keep up with Amy Adams Strunk.
 
Corrosion said:
After reading that twit from OB …. something about "we're building something here" …. He seems very confident he's not going anywhere and if history is any barometer , I'd have to say his confidence is well founded if Cal is anything like Daddy when it comes to firing people. Add to that he is not only the coach but the defacto GM , I doubt he's getting canned any time soon.

Maybe Tenn and Jax both put it together next year and the Texans are 3rd / 4th in the division …. that might be the best we can hope for , then maybe we get a new regime.
That's not to say I want to see them lose or be bad because that's the furthest thing from the truth - Its just a means to an end.
Click to expand...
I had figured that the Texans would get serious competition from both the Titans and the Colts this year, had the Texans not spent the ammo (trading away picks to "Win Now").
I had no idea which team would win the division.
But I definitely knew before those moves that I wouldn't be betting on the Texans.

Cal let O'Brien buy himself more time.

And as I had said before, the NFL likes and needs superstars/stars.
The Texans have Watson, Hopkins, and Watt.

The Titans only have Henry for now, and the Colts TY Hilton.
maverick512000 said:
Honestly I would say they did greatly improve, Watson took 44 sacks this year compared to 60+ last year and that was with an extra game played and with Tunsil and Howard both out for multiple games. Also given that Howard was a newly drafted rookie and Tunsil got here a week before the season started I think they will be even better next year maybe even get the sack count down around the 30 marker which is about the best you can do with a mobile/duel threat QB. That's not a knock on Watson just those kind of QBs naturally take more sacks.

I would very much like to see what this line could do with a real Oline coach, I could see them even being a top 10 line if they got that and Tunsil learned not to jump the gun.
Click to expand...
20 fewer attempts, 313 yards less.
Looks like more short/immediate routes that require less time in protection.

7.7 AYA vs. 8.5
A full 10% reduction in Air Yard per Attempt.
 
20 fewer attempts, 313 yards less.
Looks like more short/immediate routes that require less time in protection.

7.7 AYA vs. 8.5
A full 10% reduction in Air Yard per Attempt.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly, the thing is I like to look at the entire body of work. Granted we suffered from some key injuries, I still did not see much improvement. We’re talking about too many missed blocking assignments. Certain teams were able to cause havoc even with our max protection. Against the Bills Rico posted all 7 sacks and only one of them was on Watson.
 
otisbean said:
He does indeed, but Shanahan also does a great job of using pre snap motion to clear areas to create easy throws as well. If you get a chance, re watch the Minn-SF game, they show several replays where a WR motioning across the formation leads to an easy throw to a wide open target
Click to expand...

There are many different ways for O'Brien to make this offense better with the current personnel that has nothing to do with "run, Deshaun, run" or more RPOs or the Clemson offense.

It simply starts with more formations, motion, easier pre snap reads, hot routes, moving the pocket, fewer shotgun snaps and fewer option routes. I don't understand why in six years he has yet to consistently do these simple things within the framework of his precious EP system.
 
Texansballer74 said:
20 fewer attempts, 313 yards less.
Looks like more short/immediate routes that require less time in protection.

7.7 AYA vs. 8.5
A full 10% reduction in Air Yard per Attempt.
Click to expand...

Exactly, the thing is I like to look at the entire body of work. Granted we suffered from some key injuries, I still did not see much improvement. We’re talking about too many missed blocking assignments. Certain teams were able to cause havoc even with our max protection. Against the Bills Rico posted all 7 sacks and only one of them was on Watson.
[/QUOTE]

30 yr OL coach Paul Alexander disagrees with you/UR. But I'm sure y'all know more about OL play than he does.

You're right about regression though. The partnership of BOB/DW4 aint gonna get better either. Stoerner said today what we've been saying BOB/DW4 are a bad coaching vs skillset match.
 
steelbtexan said:
Exactly, the thing is I like to look at the entire body of work. Granted we suffered from some key injuries, I still did not see much improvement. We’re talking about too many missed blocking assignments. Certain teams were able to cause havoc even with our max protection. Against the Bills Rico posted all 7 sacks and only one of them was on Watson.

30 yr OL coach Paul Alexander disagrees with you/UR. But I'm sure y'all know more about OL play than he does.

You're right about regression though. The partnership of BOB/DW4 aint gonna get better either. Stoerner said today what we've been saying BOB/DW4 are a bad coaching vs skillset match.
Click to expand...

Stoerner and Sean Salisbury are on record as believing in Watson's potential as a franchise QB. They don't understand how O'Brien can run an offense that doesn't do some of the basic things we see in many of the offenses around the NFL.
 
Last edited:
steelbtexan said:
Exactly, the thing is I like to look at the entire body of work. Granted we suffered from some key injuries, I still did not see much improvement. We’re talking about too many missed blocking assignments. Certain teams were able to cause havoc even with our max protection. Against the Bills Rico posted all 7 sacks and only one of them was on Watson.
Click to expand...

30 yr OL coach Paul Alexander disagrees with you/UR. But I'm sure y'all know more about OL play than he does.

You're right about regression though. The partnership of BOB/DW4 aint gonna get better either. Stoerner said today what we've been saying BOB/DW4 are a bad coaching vs skillset match.
[/QUOTE]

Dude everyone will not agree but I can easily post quotes from other head coaches and former players who played on the line that agrees.

Man no quarterback is a good fit for what O’Brien is trying to employ. IMO none of his players on that side of the ball is truly embracing or understanding this coaches offensive philosophy. That’s why it’s been inconsistent for six years now.

Back to the offensive line. I believe the complication and consistently changing things up from week to week is having a adverse effect on them as well.

Look at the Ravens, Chiefs and 49ers. Their lines are so good because they’re running the same offense ever week. They’re telling teams to beat it if you can. They don’t give two F’s about what defense they are facing. This installs confidence, knowledge and much needed repetition. This is why those teams are looking good. Their young quarterbacks are excelling because they are not being challenged they way Watson is. Now don’t go South on me here but just hear me out. These jokers are not being told to call out their own protections every freaking pass play. Normally that’s the Centers job.

When Fuller goes down, these receivers including Hopkins is struggling to get open. Watson is constantly telling these receivers not named Fuller and Hopkins that they ran the wrong route. Those other QBs I named seem to always be on page with their receiver when they're scrambling.

Conclusion: In order for us to give a true breakdown, we have to look at the entire picture.
 
Last edited:
Texansballer74 said:
30 yr OL coach Paul Alexander disagrees with you/UR. But I'm sure y'all know more about OL play than he does.

You're right about regression though. The partnership of BOB/DW4 aint gonna get better either. Stoerner said today what we've been saying BOB/DW4 are a bad coaching vs skillset match.
Click to expand...

Dude everyone will not agree but I can easily post quotes from other head coaches and former players who played on the line that agrees.

Man no quarterback is a good fit for what O’Brien is trying to employ. IMO none of his players on that side of the ball is truly embracing or understanding this coaches offensive philosophy. That’s why it’s been inconsistent for six years now.

Back to the offensive line. I believe the complication and consistently changing things up from week to week is having a adverse effect on them as well.

Look at the Ravens, Chiefs and 49ers. Their lines are so good because they’re running the same offense ever week. They’re telling teams to beat it if you can. They don’t give two F’s about what defense they are facing. This installs confidence, knowledge and much needed repetition. This is why those teams are looking good. Their young quarterbacks are excelling because they are not being challenged they way Watson is. Now don’t go South on me here but just hear me out. These jokers are not being told to call out their own protections every freaking pass play. Normally that’s the Centers job.

When Fuller goes down, these receivers including Hopkins is struggling to get open. Watson is constantly telling these receivers not named Fuller and Hopkins that they ran the wrong route. Those other QBs I named seem to always be on page with their receiver when they're scrambling.

Conclusion: In order for us to give a true breakdown, we have to look at the entire picture.
[/QUOTE]

Please send those links.

You don't seem to remember how posters used to complain about the predictiality of Kubiaks offense?

We are going to have to agree to disagree. This yr is an abberation.
 
steelbtexan said:
Dude everyone will not agree but I can easily post quotes from other head coaches and former players who played on the line that agrees.

Man no quarterback is a good fit for what O’Brien is trying to employ. IMO none of his players on that side of the ball is truly embracing or understanding this coaches offensive philosophy. That’s why it’s been inconsistent for six years now.

Back to the offensive line. I believe the complication and consistently changing things up from week to week is having a adverse effect on them as well.

Look at the Ravens, Chiefs and 49ers. Their lines are so good because they’re running the same offense ever week. They’re telling teams to beat it if you can. They don’t give two F’s about what defense they are facing. This installs confidence, knowledge and much needed repetition. This is why those teams are looking good. Their young quarterbacks are excelling because they are not being challenged they way Watson is. Now don’t go South on me here but just hear me out. These jokers are not being told to call out their own protections every freaking pass play. Normally that’s the Centers job.

When Fuller goes down, these receivers including Hopkins is struggling to get open. Watson is constantly telling these receivers not named Fuller and Hopkins that they ran the wrong route. Those other QBs I named seem to always be on page with their receiver when they're scrambling.

Conclusion: In order for us to give a true breakdown, we have to look at the entire picture.
Click to expand...

Please send those links.

You don't seem to remember how posters used to complain about the predictiality of Kubiaks offense?

We are going to have to agree to disagree. This yr is an abberation.
[/QUOTE]

I wasn’t on this forum back then. But I did however knew a lot people who complained. The biggest complaint I had was he didn’t have the killer instinct. He would go conservative once his team built up a lead. I will tell you even though he was predictable, his team offensively was difficult to stop.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Garoppolo routinely throws his receivers open.........turning what would seem like a tightly closing window when watching our games, into a legitimately open receiver for San Fran.
Click to expand...

Garoppolo only threw the ball only 19 times to win a playoff game. Tannehill is averaging 80 yards passing in two playoff victories. Does anyone think an O'Brien led team can win a playoff game with his QB playing like Garoppolo or Tannehill? If not, he has to go. Hint. Sometimes, it's not always about the QB.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Garoppolo routinely throws his receivers open.........turning what would seem like a tightly closing window when watching our games, into a legitimately open receiver for San Fran.
Click to expand...
two things:
1) we know Shanny Jr.'s offense works and lends itself to those windows. We saw him develop it here and polish it in Atlanta.
2) we also know Garoppolo watched Tom Brady "throw guys open" for three years. I'm thinking he picked that up then/there.

compare that to Watson's "training"
 
ObsiWan said:
two things:
1) we know Shanny Jr.'s offense works and lends itself to those windows. We saw him develop it here and polish it in Atlanta.
2) we also know Garoppolo watched Tom Brady "throw guys open" for three years. I'm thinking he picked that up then/there.

compare that to Watson's "training"
Click to expand...

So Carl Smith, the main person working with Watson on a daily basis, now doesn't know what he's doing and is all of a sudden ineffective?
 
DocBar said:
I'm not sure how effective he is as a coach. He sure does change teams quite often.

en.wikipedia.org

Carl Smith (American football) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? He is the guy pretty much credited with helping Wilson become the QB he is today. The only reason the Texans got him away from Seattle is because his son is down here and he wanted to be closer to him.
 
I always hear about the Smith/Wilson connection. And then I don't hear Smith's teaching linked to any other notable qbs, except Matt Leinart. Perhaps Wilson would've been just fine with a different qb coach? Maybe Wilson was always equipped for greatness? Idk, just throwing it out there.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
So Carl Smith, the main person working with Watson on a daily basis, now doesn't know what he's doing and is all of a sudden ineffective?
Click to expand...


I wouldn't go that far …. but damn , It doesn't appear that Watson has progressed much in terms of playing the QB position. He still makes an awful lot of mistakes , seemingly more now than when he was a rookie.

It is that coaches job to reduce those mistakes.

I do think a big part of that is scheme related and much of it could be eliminated by simplifying what Watson is asked to do post snap and ensuring he has that checkdown option.
He also needs to understand that his time and space are limited (so does his OC). Get thru your progressions and if you have nothing , don't wait for the pocket to close around you - that doesn't necessarily mean you have to take off running , just get outside the pocket and threaten the defense before those 300lb gorilla's close in on you and that's going to have the added benefit of forcing those 7-8 guys sitting back in that zone to have to commit to the LOS and create openings on the back end. They cant defend forever …. and they cant defend both your threat and the receivers. They have to give up something.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Wow smh the narrative of some people.
Man trade that youngster and bring back Fitzgerald, Hoyer, Savage or Mallet. We don’t need a quarterback that’s not showing any type of progression.
Click to expand...

Its not that at all. Most around here acknowledge that OB and DW so far do not look like a good fit. If OB isn't going to properly utilize him then why waste everyone's time. After Watson's initial burst onto the scene, we all should have realized that defenses would catch up and start to do things differently. DW is young and still learning which means he will make mistakes. Typically in young QBs its in decision making where the errors occur. Now the OB factor, is he or is he not doing all he can to help his young, talented QB. Watson's talent will probably never be a pure, stand in the pocket QB which I assume is what OB wants. IMO, OB wants a pocket QB how knows when to maneuver around in the pocket whether stepping up or sliding around inside the pocket to bide time. This will allow the routes to develop and to help with seeing the complete field. I don't know if that's within DW because he is athletic and has had success playing in offenses tailored to his skill set. If OB can't adapt to his players, then he needs to go. As a leader, you have to set your personnel up for success. He may never find his exact QB, but you have one that can be a winner. The Texans took a swing on a good young QB, who has been winning and its time to pay him. Its time for OB to go, if he stays in the same capacity as he has (GM, HC, OC, etc) I guarantee he will screw this team's future and still not deliver a Super Bowl. He has successfully put himself in charge of the entire football operation of the Texans.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
Its not that at all. Most around here acknowledge that OB and DW so far do not look like a good fit. If OB isn't going to properly utilize him then why waste everyone's time. After Watson's initial burst onto the scene, we all should have realized that defenses would catch up and start to do things differently. DW is young and still learning which means he will make mistakes. Typically in young QBs its in decision making where the errors occur. Now the OB factor, is he or is he not doing all he can to help his young, talented QB. Watson's talent will probably never be a pure, stand in the pocket QB which I assume is what OB wants. IMO, OB wants a pocket QB how knows when to maneuver around in the pocket whether stepping up or sliding around inside the pocket to bide time. This will allow the routes to develop and to help with seeing the complete field. I don't know if that's within DW because he is athletic and has had success playing in offenses tailored to his skill set. If OB can't adapt to his players, then he needs to go. As a leader, you have to set your personnel up for success. He may never find his exact QB, but you have one that can be a winner. The Texans took a swing on a good young QB, who has been winning and its time to pay him. Its time for OB to go, if he stays in the same capacity as he has (GM, HC, OC, etc) I guarantee he will screw this team's future and still not deliver a Super Bowl. He has successfully put himself in charge of the entire football operation of the Texans.
Click to expand...
He needs to bite the bullet and let go of the OC reins and hire a guy whose scheme suits Watson's skill set - you can't fit a square peg in a round hole.
 
Mr teX said:
Reading is fundamental...never said any said that...but I could easily see you and a choice few others making that argument.....b/c that’s what ya’ll do. Look at **** in a vacuum and use hella hindsight rather than looking at things as they proceed within the flow and tone of the actual circumstances.
Click to expand...

This is very common place around these parts.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
So Carl Smith, the main person working with Watson on a daily basis, now doesn't know what he's doing and is all of a sudden ineffective?
Click to expand...
Smith is likely still the same.

Wilson is notorious for holding on to the balls just like Watson.

What Wilson had over DW4 in the first 3 years was a running game and a stellar defense.
Wilson wasn't asked to throw the ball as often as DW4.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
Now the OB factor, is he or is he not doing all he can to help his young, talented QB. Watson's talent will probably never be a pure, stand in the pocket QB which I assume is what OB wants. IMO, OB wants a pocket QB how knows when to maneuver around in the pocket whether stepping up or sliding around inside the pocket to bide time.
Click to expand...

That's probably why he brought in Carl Smith.
 
76Texan said:
Smith is likely still the same.

Wilson is notorious for holding on to the balls just like Watson.

What Wilson had over DW4 in the first 3 years was a running game and a stellar defense.
Wilson wasn't asked to throw the ball as often as DW4.
Click to expand...

What Wilson has over DW4 is Accuracy/Anticipation.
 
maverick512000 said:
What are you talking about? He is the guy pretty much credited with helping Wilson become the QB he is today. The only reason the Texans got him away from Seattle is because his son is down here and he wanted to be closer to him.
Click to expand...
OB is considered a QB guru because he was Tom Brady's OC, so this guy coaching Wilson doesn't mean as much in my opinion. As someone else has stated on here, Wilson might have already been ready for the NFL.
I wouldn't at all be surprised if the major differences between Watson and Wilson are the respective systems and coaches. Carl Smith may be a fantastic QB coach, but he's coaching a QB in a crummy system so there is only so much he can do.
I wonder if the Texans use a VR app like this to help players who need to be able to visually interpret what they're seeing.
 
steelbtexan said:
What Wilson has over DW4 is Accuracy/Anticipation.
Click to expand...
Not to mention coaching and offensive system being ran. Watson has a career completion % of 66.8% and Wilson has a career completion % of 64.5 with a completion % of 63.4 after 3 seasons. Wilson was 794 for 1,252 with 72 TDs and 26 INTs after 3 seasons. Watson was 804 for 1204 with 71 TDs and 29 INTs after 3 seasons. You can have your own opinion but not your own facts. Facts can be pesky to a personal narrative.If you care to bring up sacks, Wilson had 119 through 3 seasons and Watson has 125. IMO, playcalling and coaching separate these two QBs much more than pure talent and abilities. The stats and facts bear that out.
Wilson
Watson
 
DocBar said:
Not to mention coaching and offensive system being ran. Watson has a career completion % of 66.8% and Wilson has a career completion % of 64.5 with a completion % of 63.4 after 3 seasons.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

How many times did Wilson let a 28-24 lead blow up to a 51-31 lead?

I like stats. We can definitely see Watson has comparable talent. But even when he's got little to no help, Russell Wilson finds a way to compete.

Granted, we're not winning a Super Bowl with BO'b. But Watson, Nuk, Fuller... we should have been able to score more on KC defense in the 2nd half.

Hell, all game. The offense had two good drives all game.

Where was Watson's clutch gene in all that?
 
thunderkyss said:
Interesting.

How many times did Wilson let a 28-24 lead blow up to a 51-31 lead?

I like stats. We can definitely see Watson has comparable talent. But even when he's got little to no help, Russell Wilson finds a way to compete.

Granted, we're not winning a Super Bowl with BO'b. But Watson, Nuk, Fuller... we should have been able to score more on KC defense in the 2nd half.

Hell, all game. The offense had two good drives all game.

Where was Watson's clutch gene in all that?
Click to expand...
It was in OBs play calling.
 
DocBar said:
It was in OBs play calling.
Click to expand...

Two plays I mentioned, yeah a better play called would have helped. Still... one was 4th & 3. Ball is hiked, Watson scans, & scans, & scans... then throws it away. At most that should be a 1 read tuck it & run situation.

Another, Frank Clark's sack... he's running away from the LOS.

BO'b shat the bed, but even that doesn't account for a 51-7 deficit. The field general needs to field general & make something happen.
 
DocBar said:
Not to mention coaching and offensive system being ran. Watson has a career completion % of 66.8% and Wilson has a career completion % of 64.5 with a completion % of 63.4 after 3 seasons. Wilson was 794 for 1,252 with 72 TDs and 26 INTs after 3 seasons. Watson was 804 for 1204 with 71 TDs and 29 INTs after 3 seasons. You can have your own opinion but not your own facts. Facts can be pesky to a personal narrative.If you care to bring up sacks, Wilson had 119 through 3 seasons and Watson has 125. IMO, playcalling and coaching separate these two QBs much more than pure talent and abilities. The stats and facts bear that out.
Wilson
Watson
Click to expand...

Wilson never had Hopkins, I think people underestimate how good he can make a QB look. Even Fuller has had his moments.
 
Texansphan said:
I already gave my opinion - "...that's one of the reasons he needs to go."
Sorry if I was two steps ahead of you.
Click to expand...

I knew your opinion... But you didn't answer the original question because you were 3 steps off the path. Maybe you could answer the question instead of making snide comment about how much smarter you think you are
 
JB said:
I knew your opinion... But you didn't answer the original question because you were 3 steps off the path. Maybe you could answer the question instead of making snide comment about how much smarter you think you are
Click to expand...
Projection.
It's not my fault if you can't understand my meaning behind "that's why he needs to go".
 
Texansphan said:
Projection.
It's not my fault if you can't understand my meaning behind "that's why he needs to go".
Click to expand...

That's an opinion we (mostly) all share, but it doesn't answer the question. Did you forget what it is?
 
Thorn said:
So we trade Watson. Then what? OB's doing the draft picking, what the **** good are those draft picks gonna be then? Simply because of that reason alone, I'm against any trade of Watson.

Well, three 1s and a couple of 2s and I'd think about it. OB could then become the blind squirrel and find himself something. We'd have a **** load of tight ends.
Click to expand...
You just seem to ignore that he used picks to get three starting offensive linemen a starting cornerback in Conley, and a pretty good running back in Duke Johnson. Part of the trade for tunsil brought a very good wide receiver in stills. That is in just one year. I'm definitely not a fan of his as a head coach but as a GM he's doing really good. if he had three picks in the 2020 draft it would be hard not to get three very good players Regardless who he chooses.
 
JB said:
That's an opinion we (mostly) all share, but it doesn't answer the question. Did you forget what it is?
Click to expand...
Yes, it is what I repeatedly tell you.
Do yourself a favour and save us both some time and read the post I originally replied to.
You often jump in halfway through a convo I am having with someone else and confuse yourself.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top