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Badboy's 2020 offseason: draft/FA/trades

Raiders fans angry at recent loss to the Jags. Throwing things on the field as I understand. Another reason to offer picks for DeAndre Hopkins. Gruden needs to make a huge move in the off-season to satisfy fans and advertisers in the new stadium. Bringing an all pro target to the field for Carr is that move. Raiders has 73 million dollars in cap space in 2020 plenty to satisfy the 14 million for Hop.
 
badboy said:
Raiders fans angry at recent loss to the Jags. Throwing things on the field as I understand. Another reason to offer picks for DeAndre Hopkins. Gruden needs to make a huge move in the off-season to satisfy fans and advertisers in the new stadium. Bringing an all pro target to the field for Carr is that move. Raiders has 73 million dollars in cap space in 2020 plenty to satisfy the 14 million for Hop.
Click to expand...

Don't forget, if Watson isn't OB's type of QB......wonder what type of package the Raiders would offer for both Watson and Hopkins? The Texans could start with Carr since he's more of a pocket passer who fits OB's QB mold than Watson. Not to mention he might be a decent veteran to help the transitioning of Herbert (Oregon) in 2020 or Lawrence (Clemson) in 2021. Carr and a boatload of picks over the 2020 and 2021 draft could be pretty special......provided the team has a new GM in place to take advantage of a situation like this might provide.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Don't forget, if Watson isn't OB's type of QB......wonder what type of package the Raiders would offer for both Watson and Hopkins? The Texans could start with Carr since he's more of a pocket passer who fits OB's QB mold than Watson. Not to mention he might be a decent veteran to help the transitioning of Herbert (Oregon) in 2020 or Lawrence (Clemson) in 2021. Carr and a boatload of picks over the 2020 and 2021 draft could be pretty special......provided the team has a new GM in place to take advantage of a situation like this might provide.
Click to expand...
Here is why I dismiss the idea of trading both to Raiders:
1. Oakland does not have enough trade capital. They should win out and be 8-8 which keeps their selection around 1.16 and 1.18. While I would take that for Hop [WRs Jerry Jeudy & Cee Dee Lamb] alone they have nothing else to offer for Watson.

2. Derek Carr is good but personally I don't want him and his huge contract. Now if Mayock does what I suggested last draft and trades Carr for a high round one to say Miami or Detroit, I perk up. I think Gruden wants Carr so don't see that. I'm not high on Herbert and no chance to get Lawrence whom I think could be an all pro.

Going with your thought--16 & 18 for Hopkins with understanding that at least one of the WR I note above is there. We get Detroit's #6 via Raiders + Josh Jacobs rb and OLB Maxx Crosby I would seriously consider. I think I could trade down from 6 (if Chase Young gone) and add picks and still get QB Anthony Gordon.

Appreciate your input.
 
Raiders would be interesting but just wondering.....anyone think the Bengals would deal their RD1-01 pick in 2020 if Watson was available?
 
I can see Miami offering and Raiders accepting
OptimisticTexan said:
Raiders would be interesting but just wondering.....anyone think the Bengals would deal their RD1-01 pick in 2020 if Watson was available?
Click to expand...
Just my 2 cents but no way! Burrows is the ultimate and Bengals can add Dalton's $18 m to $62 cap space plus 13 carry over for $90 million to revamp with FA. Now I could present a scenario of getting Derek Carr and picks/player combo but Joe Burrows ticks off every requirement there is and he is mobile enough to scamper if he has to.
 
I try to put together a package to entice Miami but just cannot convince myself I would do it if I were Dolphins. For example, if Tua returns school or Dolphins concerned about his injury, Watson + Hopkins + Tytus Howard for:
1.5 +1.19 + 1.26 +2.36 + 2.62

Hopkins= #5 Watson = 1.19 and 2.36 and 2.62

Howard= 1.26

I can cruise with those for Houston but Miami would probably prefer

1.5 WR Jerry Jeudy #1 WR 1.19 LT/RT Alex Leatherwood 1.26 Derek Carr trade
2.36 best need player 2.62 best need player.

I guess I will focus on Raiders who would have 3 firsts (26 Carr) and RB Josh Jacobs and OLB Maxx Crosby for Hop and Watson. 1.14 & 1.18 & 1.26 + two players. My eval would be Watson for #18 plus Jacobs and Crosby. Hopkins brings 1.14 & 1.26.

I believe that's doable if the rumor about Carr being on block and Miami wanting him plus my belief that Gruden really, really wants our duo.
 
Y’all really think there’s even a remote chance Deshaun or hop gets traded? This isn’t madden. It isn’t happening. Would be utterly stupid. Get a coach that can develop him. Then bring in a DC that will find ways to bring pressure
 
281Texan said:
Y’all really think there’s even a remote chance Deshaun or hop gets traded? This isn’t madden. It isn’t happening. Would be utterly stupid. Get a coach that can develop him. Then bring in a DC that will find ways to bring pressure
Click to expand...

We know Watson and Hops would never be traded but just discussing the possibilities....sort of what the thread is about.

What doesn't live in the realm of possibilities......Watson apparently isn't the QB OB needs to run his vaunted offense and OB isn't the coach who's going to get Watson to the next level. At some point, something will have to give.

How many folks think Cal possesses the nads to call OB into his office for a heart to heart......Bill your offense sucks arse and we need you to relinquish your OC hat for a top rung OC who can better work with the franchise QB while installing an offense that contains quiet a bit more imagination.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
We know Watson and Hops would never be traded but just discussing the possibilities....sort of what the thread is about.

What doesn't live in the realm of possibilities......Watson apparently isn't the QB OB needs to run his vaunted offense and OB isn't the coach who's going to get Watson to the next level. At some point, something will have to give.

How many folks think Cal possesses the nads to call OB into his office for a heart to heart......Bill your offense sucks arse and we need you to relinquish your OC hat for a top rung OC who can better work with the franchise QB while installing an offense that contains quiet a bit more imagination.
Click to expand...

If Watson can’t run his offense then it’s because his offense sucks. (It does). It’s kind of sad, because I think as strictly a head coach, OB has shown moments of him being, dare I say it, a good coach. He’s made some decent moves as the de facto GM by bringing in Hyde, Tunsil, and Stills. But good head coaches don’t lose to Denver with a rookie QB in his first start. And good GM’s don’t trade away elite edge defenders, (even though Martin has shown potential, we could’ve gotten him for less than clowney). My main problem with OB is Deshaun hasn’t developed under him like he should be. Deshaun is a borderline generational talent at QB, and he’s been outstanding. But he hasn’t taken the leap this year that I think most hoped he would. He’s still missing throws, still missing some coverage reads, and it seems the success of this offense is predicated upon one guy who plays 5 games per year (if that). When we brought in stills, I thought we’d utilize that speed in a similar fashion, but we use him underneath more, like we do the TE’s and hop, than we do over the top. To me, if he gets the boot, he can go to somewhere like NYG, or (barf), the Cowboys, and have success if he was to humble himself and work with the talent they have in place.
 
281Texan said:
If Watson can’t run his offense then it’s because his offense sucks. (It does). It’s kind of sad, because I think as strictly a head coach, OB has shown moments of him being, dare I say it, a good coach. He’s made some decent moves as the de facto GM by bringing in Hyde, Tunsil, and Stills. But good head coaches don’t lose to Denver with a rookie QB in his first start. And good GM’s don’t trade away elite edge defenders, (even though Martin has shown potential, we could’ve gotten him for less than clowney). My main problem with OB is Deshaun hasn’t developed under him like he should be. Deshaun is a borderline generational talent at QB, and he’s been outstanding. But he hasn’t taken the leap this year that I think most hoped he would. He’s still missing throws, still missing some coverage reads, and it seems the success of this offense is predicated upon one guy who plays 5 games per year (if that). When we brought in stills, I thought we’d utilize that speed in a similar fashion, but we use him underneath more, like we do the TE’s and hop, than we do over the top. To me, if he gets the boot, he can go to somewhere like NYG, or (barf), the Cowboys, and have success if he was to humble himself and work with the talent they have in place.
Click to expand...

DW4 isn't a generational talent.

Heay have grown as much as he's capable of growing regardless of who the HC is. Unfortunately for BOB he will have to be fired and another HC will become DW'4 problem for some posters to finally get this. Although there will be some posters that still wont admit that DW4's not a championship level QB after 9-10 yrs here in Houston.
 
281Texan said:
Y’all really think there’s even a remote chance Deshaun or hop gets traded? This isn’t madden. It isn’t happening. Would be utterly stupid. Get a coach that can develop him. Then bring in a DC that will find ways to bring pressure
Click to expand...
It is remote but the trade for Tunsil was very unusual for Houston and letting Clowney leave with what was considered at the time as nothing was considered "stupid" by some. I'm not saying you are wrong but try to think outside of your mindset on this. O'Brien has consolidated his position and power this season in ways no one thought would occur. I don't want Obrien but if you are going to look at Deshaun's records you must look at Bill's also. Of course Watson could go to McNair and demand a new HC but does that fit anything we know about him? If and I believe it is extremely likely O'Brien has convinced CAL that the NE "way" can be installed in Houston, would you be stunned if #4 doesn't meet the Tom Brady type QB for O'Brien? True or not it has been mention more than a few times that Watson not Bill's choice.

Part of your issue as I see it is you believe another coach can come here and "develop" Watson and just maybe you are incorrect. I think there is enough tape evidence that can be used to show CAL McNair that #4 is not the QB to lead OBrien's team to SB and win. As fans we think what we see or want to happen is what should happen. That rarely occurs for me.
 
badboy said:
? you don't think O'Brien would go to the owner if he wanted to make a trade of Watson and/or Hopkins?
Click to expand...
No, I don't think O'Brien wants to trade his best 2 players and begin losing. No, I don't think he would go to the owner with such a crazy request. The owner has to market the team. He's not going to tell fans and sponsers, "Hey, we're blowing this thing up on a whim. But please, keep paying me like we're trying to be competitive."
 
badboy said:
Of course Watson could go to McNair and demand a new HC but does that fit anything we know about him? If and I believe it is extremely likely O'Brien has convinced CAL that the NE "way" can be installed in Houston, would you be stunned if #4 doesn't meet the Tom Brady type QB for O'Brien.

Part of your issue as I see it is you believe another coach can come here and "develop" Watson and just maybe you are incorrect. I think there is enough tape evidence that can be used to show CAL McNair that #4 is not the QB to lead OBrien's team to SB and win.
Click to expand...
Let's try to put this to rest.

1) No team would even negotiate a trade for Watson without getting permission to contact him through his agent. And that would shift all the leverage to Watson. It would have to be a Watson or O'Brien decision at that point. And Watson could nix any trade by refusing to extend. The Texans would get pennies on the dollar (see: Clowney trade).

2) So O'Brien is going to convince the owner that he can find the next Brady? Where is the next GOAT? In this draft? No one (and I mean no one) thought Brady was a generational player coming out of college. Isn't this the same coach that thought Tom Savage, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallet and Brock Osweiler were NFL starting QBs? But, Cal is going to believe Bill. This time.

3) If there is "tape evidence" that shows McNair that Watson can't win a Super Bowl, there's also tape that shows he can. And all of that tape is Watson QBing for O'Brien. It's a lot easier finding a head coach than it is a QB. McNair knows that, if he knows anything. O'Brien knows better than trying to make Cal choose. No one pays to watch O'Brien coach.

So, lets try to be just a tad more realistic.
 
:smiliedance:

I went to bed last night (Christmas) at 3 am and awakened this morning to enter my front room & there by the fireplace was a beautifully wrapped package that was from Santa Claus. Here is what was inside--2020 draft results! I know I have been a good boy but man I must have been amazing!

A precursor if you will.. Watson excels in a win over Titans game 16 and then leads team in W over Bills but loses in an offensive shootout versus Baltimore. Ravens win in an amazing effort by Lamar Jackson handily beating the NFC traditional type QB. Miami and Raiders have to have one like him. Alabama QB Tua either returns to school or if he announces both NFL GMs are nervous concerning his injury and decided to pass. A :slapfight: develops with both offering ever increasing offers to Houston for Deshaun Watson by far the closest thing available to L Jack. Miami wins out and trades 1.5 & 1.19 & 1.25 for Watson and OT Tytus Howard. Gruden groans but knows he screwed pooch with Antonio Brown fiasco :smiliepalm:and needs to remove the:cheese:to fill the new Vegas venue. Not just a splash but wants a tidal wave move. He is stuck with Carr but to be fair knows Derek needs more to pitch it to. Gruden trades 1.14 & 1.18 & RB Josh Jacobs (just reported had surgery on left leg, needs shoulder operation off season) for future HOF and still extremely productive fan favorite Hopkins & Duke Johnson! Drum roll:

1.1 Bengals QB Joe Burrows
1.2 Washington LT Thomas
1.3 Detroit IDL Derrick Brown
1.4 NY Giants OT Tristan Wirf
1.5 Jags realize Derrick Brown gone and with Marcelus Darius probably gone trade up one spot for massive DT Raekwon Davis! For #5 and 2.55 Houston gets
#6 and #20. *notes indicate a 50-50 chance same trade for QB Tua/Herbert if new Jags front office wants their own QB.
jaguarswire.usatoday.com

Jags start to repair defense in Todd McShay's first 2020 mock draft

With just two games left on their schedule and the playoffs out of sight, it will be mock draft season for the Jacksonville Jaguars soon and several other teams. With that being the case, ESPN&#821…
jaguarswire.usatoday.com jaguarswire.usatoday.com

*1.6 Texans select DE Chase Young
1.7 Chargers QB Tua or Herbert
1.8 Panthers wanted either Derrick Brown or Davis select Safety Delpit
1.9 Cards LT Austin Jackson
1.10 Jets OT Jedrick Wills as often occurs a run on position force team to dive in.
1.11 Denver WR Tee Higgins Clemson 6'4" 216 sees ball gets ball
1.12 Cleveland S/LB Isaiah Simmons
1.13 Atlanta DE/OLB AJ Epenesa
*1.14 Texans WR CeeDee Lamb replaces Hopkins
1.15 Dallas Safety Xavier McKinney
1.16 Indy DE Gross-Matos
1.17 TBay IDL Javon Kinlaw
*1.18 Texans WR Jerry Jeudy an Andre Johnson type
*1.19 Texans Cb Jeff Okudah
*1.20 Texans WR Henry Ruggs 3rd 4.25 pro-day 2018 replaces Will Fuller
1.21 Philly Cb Trevon Diggs *note 50-50 WR Laviska Shenault Jr.
1.22 Tennessee Edge rusher K'lavon Chaisson
1.23 Buffalo wanted Chaisson select Terrell Lewis
1.24 Vikings LB Dylan Moses
*1.25 Texans OT/OG Alex Underwood starts game one RG & insurance Tunsil.

I will not bore you with the rest except for Houston's picks:

2.55 traded Jags
3.86 [for Clowney] CB Kristian Fuller as other CBs have fallen in past
3.89 ours to Cleveland to complete Duke Johnson
3.99 comp to Raiders for Conley (Gruden accepts comp part of deal for Hop)

4.104 (Tunsil) QB Anthony Gordon
4.119 RB Najee Harris
 
Lucky said:
Let's try to put this to rest.

1) No team would even negotiate a trade for Watson without getting permission to contact him through his agent. And that would shift all the leverage to Watson. It would have to be a Watson or O'Brien decision at that point. And Watson could nix any trade by refusing to extend. The Texans would get pennies on the dollar (see: Clowney trade).

2) So O'Brien is going to convince the owner that he can find the next Brady? Where is the next GOAT? In this draft? No one (and I mean no one) thought Brady was a generational player coming out of college. Isn't this the same coach that thought Tom Savage, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallet and Brock Osweiler were NFL starting QBs? But, Cal is going to believe Bill. This time.

3) If there is "tape evidence" that shows McNair that Watson can't win a Super Bowl, there's also tape that shows he can. And all of that tape is Watson QBing for O'Brien. It's a lot easier finding a head coach than it is a QB. McNair knows that, if he knows anything. O'Brien knows better than trying to make Cal choose. No one pays to watch O'Brien coach.

So, lets try to be just a tad more realistic.
Click to expand...
Thanks for playing! There is no reason to contact Watsons agent as #4 is under contract for two more seasons (similar to Tunsil trade so precedent exists). A team trading for Watson knows they can afford to pay him under the new CBA. Miami for example has $19 m to roll into 2020 to add to $98 million and that doesn't even consider 2021! Watson gonna get his and could play in Florida or California. A Georgia high schooler went next door to play at Clemson would think Miami is his back yard. Dolphins Stephen Ross would love to have Watson.
#2 quit jumping to extreme! lol OBrien doesn't have to have a GOAT and as you correctly state PATs didn't know what they had in Tom draft day. Texans need a Brady type who could become a very good QB. They have that in Watson but O'Brien wants a different type. I am not clutching at straws although I agree wishful thinking.

#2 continued: of all those QBs only Osweiler came with any hype as he was consider #1 free agent that year. The others were what Houston got stuck with but thats been regurgitated on MB as you know.

#3 we just disagree.
 
Lucky said:
Let's try to put this to rest.

1) No team would even negotiate a trade for Watson without getting permission to contact him through his agent. And that would shift all the leverage to Watson. It would have to be a Watson or O'Brien decision at that point. And Watson could nix any trade by refusing to extend. The Texans would get pennies on the dollar (see: Clowney trade).

2) So O'Brien is going to convince the owner that he can find the next Brady? Where is the next GOAT? In this draft? No one (and I mean no one) thought Brady was a generational player coming out of college. Isn't this the same coach that thought Tom Savage, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallet and Brock Osweiler were NFL starting QBs? But, Cal is going to believe Bill. This time.

3) If there is "tape evidence" that shows McNair that Watson can't win a Super Bowl, there's also tape that shows he can. And all of that tape is Watson QBing for O'Brien. It's a lot easier finding a head coach than it is a QB. McNair knows that, if he knows anything. O'Brien knows better than trying to make Cal choose. No one pays to watch O'Brien coach.

So, lets try to be just a tad more realistic.
Click to expand...

1. Agreed
2. Hopefully but doubtful and maybe those guys weren't BOB's pick minus Hoyer who was a stopgap.
3. Agreed but hopefully you're wrong. But they wont win a championship with DW4 and you know Cal's going to keep DW4 for marketing reasons. In short DW4's good for business but not so good if your goal is to win a championship and everybody knows how I feel about the McNair's and their half hearted attempts to win a SB.
 
Here is my 2020 Off-Season Signings, Moves, and Draft Thoughts.

The Texans should put an initial focus on signing their own top and important targets for 2020. I'd like to see the team get Reader signed at maybe a 5 year 60M+ dollar deal. A couple of low end but effective signings would be, Fells at 2 years 7M dollars and Hyde at 2 years 8M dollars. Another solid but inexpensive signing would be Swing Tackle Johnson.

The biggest defensive signing would be DJ Reader....and that's probably going to take a solid 5 year 60M+ type of deal. He'd be worth it in my book. I'd put Reader's signing over the Mercilus signing since there's a good chance I could find his replacement in the draft while saving his money for a couple of other UFA signings I'd like to see on the Texans radar.

My 2 big UFA signings who are not currently Texans. Everyone should know I'd like to RG, Scherff signed and he'll cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 years at 70M If the Texans want to eliminate the competition. Scherff and reader would be the big money focus for 2020.....the upcoming FA's can wait until 2021 when there should be a lot wiggle room. As for my other UFA signing, I'd turn my focus to WR where the Texans should try and find a solution to the often injured and fragile Fuller. I think the best value for the dollar signing could be Emmanuel Sanders (SMU) who at 32 years old might be had with a 2 year 21M contract offer. Man still has the speed and hands to do what Fuller does only I like his chances of remaining on the field much better.

The Texans could unload Fulton and Fuller's contract in the off-season.....it wouldn't be much in return but a couple of mid round picks (RD4-RD6) which would be fine so long as the money is off the books.

I think Scherff, Sanders, Hyde, and Fells would supply all the answers to the offense so the 2020 Draft could put a strong focus on defense. About the only pick I would use towards the offense is "if" the Texans wind up with some RD3 COMP Picks and somehow QB, Jalen Hurts is falling into RD4. I'd take him in a second and groom him right away as QB2.

That's my initial look at 2020.
 
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justmy2cents said:
Cam Akers - FSU Jr. RB 5'11" 212 really quick ... 4.1 - 4.5 - Field instinct like Johnny Football .... it's like he's aware of what move to make before it presents itself .... so quick to make even over the top blocks .... what a change of pace back. Like Forest Gump .... born to run !
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This 2020 draft is yet another important one for this team.
No 1st round pick which hurts but is still just one player.
Yes, can be huge impact, but I am of the opinion that if you can snag an impact player at any position on the field lower in the draft you take him - it matters not what position he plays.
This way you can mitigate not having a first.
Players like Akers can be had in the mid rounds so are extremely good value and should not be passed over.
Having just one new impact player on the team can change their whole identity - the draft is obviously the cheapest and most desirable option.
Akers could be our version of Tyreek Hill. You don't want a division rival picking him up.
With no 1st, Texans have to roll the dice on guys like this.
 
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I've not focused on Akers but I love DK Dobbins Ohio State and watched him extensively. Prob have to use our 2nd round but looks like we will not have to use it on an OLB or corner. Leading college RB 301/2003 6.65 with 23/247 @10.74 receiving. Maintaining almost 7 per at that heavy load is remarkable and he runs in & outside.

Dobbins earned that honor thanks to a 4.44 40-Yard Dash, a 4.09 20-Yard Shuttle and a ridiculous 43.1-inch Vertical Jump. Do you know how insane it is for a high school player to jump 43 inches in the Vertical?
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www.stack.com

J.K. Dobbins' High School Workout Numbers are Mind-Blowing

"The truth is, as a sophomore at 15 years old, he could have played for 80 percent of Division I programs. At 15 years old. There's no doubt. That's what's crazy. No doubt,” Kates said.
www.stack.com www.stack.com
 
badboy said:
I've not focused on Akers but I love DK Dobbins Ohio State and watched him extensively. Prob have to use our 2nd round but looks like we will not have to use it on an OLB or corner. Leading college RB 301/2003 6.65 with 23/247 @10.74 receiving. Maintaining almost 7 per at that heavy load is remarkable and he runs in & outside.

www.stack.com

J.K. Dobbins' High School Workout Numbers are Mind-Blowing

"The truth is, as a sophomore at 15 years old, he could have played for 80 percent of Division I programs. At 15 years old. There's no doubt. That's what's crazy. No doubt,” Kates said.
www.stack.com www.stack.com
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I like Dobbins as well but I don't think he falls into a late RD2 slot. As much as folks love to say the NFL is moving away from the running game to better focus on the passing game.....teams aren't winning without a solid ground game. I think Dobbins is gone in RD1.....he's that good and versatile.

Also, I see both the Dolphins and Jaguars, who possess multiple RD1 picks, not letting Dobbins get past them.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I like Dobbins as well but I don't think he falls into a late RD2 slot. As much as folks love to say the NFL is moving away from the running game to better focus on the passing game.....teams aren't winning without a solid ground game. I think Dobbins is gone in RD1.....he's that good and versatile.

Also, I see both the Dolphins and Jaguars, who possess multiple RD1 picks, not letting Dobbins get past them.
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Maybe but I have yet to see a mock draft with him in the first round. Use Duke more in the slot receiver role with occasional Carry and draft Dobbins and Najee Harris in 4th to replace Hyde. Get a comp for Carlos.
 
badboy said:
It is remote but the trade for Tunsil was very unusual for Houston and letting Clowney leave with what was considered at the time as nothing was considered "stupid" by some. I'm not saying you are wrong but try to think outside of your mindset on this. O'Brien has consolidated his position and power this season in ways no one thought would occur. I don't want Obrien but if you are going to look at Deshaun's records you must look at Bill's also. Of course Watson could go to McNair and demand a new HC but does that fit anything we know about him? If and I believe it is extremely likely O'Brien has convinced CAL that the NE "way" can be installed in Houston, would you be stunned if #4 doesn't meet the Tom Brady type QB for O'Brien? True or not it has been mention more than a few times that Watson not Bill's choice.

Part of your issue as I see it is you believe another coach can come here and "develop" Watson and just maybe you are incorrect. I think there is enough tape evidence that can be used to show CAL McNair that #4 is not the QB to lead OBrien's team to SB and win. As fans we think what we see or want to happen is what should happen. That rarely occurs for me.
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It’s not happening for multiple reasons. 1: Teams don’t trade franchise QB’s. They just don’t. Look how long the Jags, Titans, Broncos, etc have struggled due to the fact that they don’t have a QB.

2: Watson is the face of the franchise. The revolt in Houston would be so large that it’d almost force the McNairs to sell.

3. I don’t see why Deshaun *isn’t* the guy to run the offense. Even if OB’s offense is terrible, Deshaun has still been borderline great, and has won us a ton of ball games.

There is actually 0% chance this could or would happen. I always give everything a 0.1% chance because you’re right, we have made crazy trades, but this is a 0% chance situation
 
steelbtexan said:
DW4 isn't a generational talent.

Heay have grown as much as he's capable of growing regardless of who the HC is. Unfortunately for BOB he will have to be fired and another HC will become DW'4 problem for some posters to finally get this. Although there will be some posters that still wont admit that DW4's not a championship level QB after 9-10 yrs here in Houston.
Click to expand...

How do you figure? He’s only in his 3rd year and is a consensus top 10 QB. Hes going to be in that realm and beyond for the next 10 years. He has the ability to bring the city multiple championships
 
The reality......Watson has shown enough that with the proper team, he'd be winning like he did at Clemson. OB on the other hand has figured out how to attach a "drag-shoot" to Watson......he's also had no luck with QB's inherited, hand-picked, or hand delivered. 6 years at the helm and his offense is still regressing or breaking even. When it's all laid out on the table, OB has been the one constant in this offensive mess. 30 teams in the NFL would've changed coaches by now b/c OB has now had a "Franchise QB" for 3 seasons and the results are still breaking even or regressing. Throw in the other offensive talent he's had to work with for Watson's 3 seasons and the results just become even more unacceptable.

Bottom line, it's time to move on from the team's current GM, HC and OC......hail fire'em all!!!!!
 
Free agency not strong for our needs as I see it. First our projected cap space $ 56 million including roll over. We can add more with cuts of roster players and I will suggest some.

RG Brandon Scherff 6'5" 315 (Washington) three consecutive years pro bowl. 28 YOA until December 2020; allowed one sack with 9 penalties. His market value per spotrac 4 years $50 million. I offer 5 $70 million and would go up to 75. This resolves our right guard issue as Fulton has foundered this season and will also benefit Tyrus Howard get back to his pre-injury play which was good for a rookie. I pay for this cutting RG Zach Fulton $7 million and CB Hargreaves whose 2020 5th season is $9.6 = $16.6 million. Also allows us to eliminate Oline in draft.

Boundary corner Brian Jones 6'1" 199 (Dallas) 2015 draft vert 44.5 225x18. Due to ankle strain did not run forty. Pro day: 3 different stopwatches had him 4.36, 4.40 and 4.44. Played safety in college and with Cowboys until new D coach moved him to corner 2018. 67 tackles 14 PBUs ALL PRO second team. 2019 10 starts played 14 games 58 Ts 4 for loss; 5 QB hits with one safety; i INT and five passes broken up. NOTE * was targeted by QBs more than three times only five times ! PFF 75. Replaces Johnathan Joseph as a starter with Conley replacing Roby. I move Lonnie Johnson to slot to replace Hargreaves noted above. I pay for this by cutting OG Senio Kelemete $4.5 m and Will Fuller 5th year $10 m. = $14.5 m Dallas caught up in cap with players must extend. As he turns 29 December 26 2020, I offer 5 year $70 million and would go up to $75.

Team still has $56 million.
 
badboy said:
Free agency not strong for our needs as I see it. First our projected cap space $ 56 million including roll over. We can add more with cuts of roster players and I will suggest some.

RG Brandon Scherff 6'5" 315 (Washington) three consecutive years pro bowl. 28 YOA until December 2020; allowed one sack with 9 penalties. His market value per spotrac 4 years $50 million. I offer 5 $70 million and would go up to 75. This resolves our right guard issue as Fulton has foundered this season and will also benefit Tyrus Howard get back to his pre-injury play which was good for a rookie. I pay for this cutting RG Zach Fulton $7 million and CB Hargreaves whose 2020 5th season is $9.6 = $16.6 million. Also allows us to eliminate Oline in draft.

Boundary corner Brian Jones 6'1" 199 (Dallas) 2015 draft vert 44.5 225x18. Due to ankle strain did not run forty. Pro day: 3 different stopwatches had him 4.36, 4.40 and 4.44. Played safety in college and with Cowboys until new D coach moved him to corner 2018. 67 tackles 14 PBUs ALL PRO second team. 2019 10 starts played 14 games 58 Ts 4 for loss; 5 QB hits with one safety; i INT and five passes broken up. NOTE * was targeted by QBs more than three times only five times ! PFF 75. Replaces Johnathan Joseph as a starter with Conley replacing Roby. I move Lonnie Johnson to slot to replace Hargreaves noted above. I pay for this by cutting OG Senio Kelemete $4.5 m and Will Fuller 5th year $10 m. = $14.5 m Dallas caught up in cap with players must extend. As he turns 29 December 26 2020, I offer 5 year $70 million and would go up to $75.

Team still has $56 million.
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Badboy......this is solid. I have some concerns after the Redskins signed Rivera. They might have the upper hand in re-signing Scherff but I think they're also in a cap situation. Having both their LT and RG needing to be appeased......I think it's Scherff who will be allowed to move on when the dust settles. Texans shouldn't screw around if he hits the market.

I think the Texans could still make a play for WR, Emmanuel Sanders (SF) when he hits the open market. I'd also get Stills re-signed. Cut or trade Coutee since he's not progressed. I know it's not a lot of money but it's money just the same. I think Stills comes at a very affordable price and the same could be said for Sanders. Sanders would be a huge asset opposite Hopkins. I could see a crazy formation on occasions that would have Sanders and Stills on the outside while putting Hopkins in the slot.....could create some enticing mismatches.

I also look forward to seeing Higdon making a move this off-season. He's had his first NFL season, time to build his strength, knowledge and gain an understanding of NFL game speed. He'd be my 3rd down back and return man if he can make the move during the Pre Season.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Badboy......this is solid. I have some concerns after the Redskins signed Rivera. They might have the upper hand in re-signing Scherff but I think they're also in a cap situation. Having both their LT and RG needing to be appeased......I think it's Scherff who will be allowed to move on when the dust settles. Texans shouldn't screw around if he hits the market.

I think the Texans could still make a play for WR, Emmanuel Sanders (SF) when he hits the open market. I'd also get Stills re-signed. Cut or trade Coutee since he's not progressed. I know it's not a lot of money but it's money just the same. I think Stills comes at a very affordable price and the same could be said for Sanders. Sanders would be a huge asset opposite Hopkins. I could see a crazy formation on occasions that would have Sanders and Stills on the outside while putting Hopkins in the slot.....could create some enticing mismatches.

I also look forward to seeing Higdon making a move this off-season. He's had his first NFL season, time to build his strength, knowledge and gain an understanding of NFL game speed. He'd be my 3rd down back and return man if he can make the move during the Pre Season.
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Thanks! I'm not sold on Emmanuel Sanders. He's got the speed but he is very inconsistent game by game in 2019. I cannot just look at his stats which are average in my opinion. I would not be surprised if coutee was cut but I just don't see that happening due to his cheap contract end Knowledge of the system. I agree we need a wide receiver but I think that Fuller may agree to reduce his cap hit going forward by renegotiating his 10 million dollar hit and spreading it over two to three years. I also had Great Hopes for Karan Higdon but he just couldn't get on the field and I think that hurts his cause. I do agree with your thoughts on Coach Rivera however I think scherff is in the same mindset as Left tackle Trent Williams. I think both just want out of there. Perhaps you recall early-season post where I had Texans trading for Williams, scherff and their back up Center?
 
badboy said:
Thanks! I'm not sold on Emmanuel Sanders. He's got the speed but he is very inconsistent game by game in 2019. I cannot just look at his stats which are average in my opinion. I would not be surprised if coutee was cut but I just don't see that happening due to his cheap contract end Knowledge of the system. I agree we need a wide receiver but I think that Fuller may agree to reduce his cap hit going forward by renegotiating his 10 million dollar hit and spreading it over two to three years. I also had Great Hopes for Karan Higdon but he just couldn't get on the field and I think that hurts his cause. I do agree with your thoughts on Coach Rivera however I think scherff is in the same mindset as Left tackle Trent Williams. I think both just want out of there. Perhaps you recall early-season post where I had Texans trading for Williams, scherff and their back up Center?
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I remember the Redskins trade thought. It'd be a pretty hefty haul and I can't recall the return from the Texans side. I was good with Williams as well and was a little surprised at the haul Miami got for Tunsil and Stills.

I'm a firm believer that Scherff would be a major lynchpin in turning the Texans OL around especially at a position of true need. I thought both Fulton and Clark had became FB's based on the amount of time they spent in the Texans backfield with Watson and Johnson.

As for Sanders, at 31 years old and still productive with speed......a return to being a compliment to a true WR1 could coax his inner Broncos days. I think he would come at a very affordable price and if his job was to stretch defenses in OB's offense, I think he could still do that. Like Fuller, Sanders could command instant respect from defenders when he's on the field, which should be quite a bit more than Fuller. Stills is a must re-sign and he should be affordable as well.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I remember the Redskins trade thought. It'd be a pretty hefty haul and I can't recall the return from the Texans side. I was good with Williams as well and was a little surprised at the haul Miami got for Tunsil and Stills.

I'm a firm believer that Scherff would be a major lynchpin in turning the Texans OL around especially at a position of true need. I thought both Fulton and Clark had became FB's based on the amount of time they spent in the Texans backfield with Watson and Johnson.

As for Sanders, at 31 years old and still productive with speed......a return to being a compliment to a true WR1 could coax his inner Broncos days. I think he would come at a very affordable price and if his job was to stretch defenses in OB's offense, I think he could still do that. Like Fuller, Sanders could command instant respect from defenders when he's on the field, which should be quite a bit more than Fuller. Stills is a must re-sign and he should be affordable as well.
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I am not against Sanders but expect him to go elsewhere. Stills is under contract for 2020 with seven million dollars non GTD. I think he will be a candidate to extend. As always enjoyed the discussion.
 
FYI, I have seen mocks with Texans taking running backs DK Dobbins, Etienne or Johnathan Taylor in round 2. Unless they sign a free agent corner Texans should consider that position. I have seen Alabama running back Najee Harris going anywhere from first to 4th round.
 
badboy said:
I am not against Sanders but expect him to go elsewhere. Stills is under contract for 2020 with seven million dollars non GTD. I think he will be a candidate to extend. As always enjoyed the discussion.
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Sanders probably will stay with the 49ers.

Plus he's got an injury history that would keep me from paying him the big bucks he's probably going to get.
 
As much as I loved Tua pre-injury, if I was Miami I would take Herbert over Tua even if thinking Tua could play a year or two. Top 5 pick needs to offer many more seasons. Too much risk.
 
I think Olsen firing has meaning only in one way. No reason to fire him if Olsen didn't want Tunsil without new deal. Can't seeing Olsen going to CAL over that but over trading Watson, yes.

Move 1: trade Hopkins to Washington for 1.2 +3.66. 'skins need everything but three time one of two best at his position Hop brings more than Chase Young. Trent William will bring them a pick to use for a OT. 2nd year Haskins benefits from these moves.

Move 2: trade Watson to Dolphins for 1.5 +1.18 +{1.26 our former or Maxx Crosby or 2.39 & 2.56..Dolphins choice. Hard to ignore that Watson dropped from 103.1 to 98.

Move 3: announce after draft Houston signed UFA Tom Brady. In 2019 he signed for $23 million + another $1 m broken into game-game roster bonus. Despite elbow he had 373/613 for 61% and 4057 24 TDs to 8 INTs. His quick release and OLine knowing where he is will be beneficial. As with his deal at NE his $ could be a signing bonus spread over three years to lower cap ($7 each). Brady G.O.A.T. and still productive should ease anger of trading #4, keep team in hunt for playoffs while allowing a QB to develop under him as did Garoppolo. Another step in OBrien remaking Houston into NE.

Move 4: Brandon Scherff pay him the $15 m per use Fuller $10m + Fulton $7 with $2 left. That 2 + 1.9 saving from Scarlett pays Watson dead $.

Move 5: CB Byron Jones use Hop's $11m + Kelemete $3.25=14.25

1.2 Chase Young considered a "generational player" & would help Watt in 2019.

1.5 (Miami) I would try to trade this as a QB hungry team like Raiders know Chargers will take either Tua or Herbert at #6. I think Carr could go to NE who has cap, signed thru 2022 and fits the scheme better than he does in Oakland. At 1.5 Houston selects one of only three can't miss WR Jerry Jeudy.

1.18 WR Henry Ruggs III fastest player in draft. Brady feasts with these two receivers!

2.39 RB JK Dobbins 5'10" 214. I compare him to Josh Jacobs considered by many to be best RB 2019. He takes stress off Brady and reduces pass attempts that Sony Michael failed to do. Duke Johnson will be utilized by Brady better than by Watson.

2.56 CB A J Terrell

2.57 ours OLB Zac Baun replaces Scarlett with 76 Ts 19.5 for loss; 12.5 sacks & 10 QBs with 2 forced fumbles;2 PBUs and 1 INT. 6'3" 235 from LB U Wisconsin.

3.66 OT Robert Hunt you may not know him now..but you will. 6'5"322 RT/RG

Louisiana Ragin' Cajuns' Robert Hunt 'Knew God Had A Plan' | The Draft Network

It was an old, black car. That is all Robert Hunt really remembers.He does not know cars because he ...
thedraftnetwork.com thedraftnetwork.com

4.101 (Tunsil) QB Anthony Gordon will thrive under Brady
4.121 CB/safety* Lamar Jackson 6'3"215 Nebraska 40 Ts 3.5 for loss; 1 sk & 1 QB; 12 PBUs; 2 FF with 20.7 incompletion rate 3rd best Big 10. Physical with good press and bump & run. Plays well on perimeter & I'm interested in his 40 @ combine.
 
badboy said:
I think Olsen firing has meaning only in one way. No reason to fire him if Olsen didn't want Tunsil without new deal. Can't seeing Olsen going to CAL over that but over trading Watson, yes.

Move 1: trade Hopkins to Washington for 1.2 +3.66. 'skins need everything but three time one of two best at his position Hop brings more than Chase Young. Trent William will bring them a pick to use for a OT. 2nd year Haskins benefits from these moves.

Move 2: trade Watson to Dolphins for 1.5 +1.18 +{1.26 our former or Maxx Crosby or 2.39 & 2.56..Dolphins choice. Hard to ignore that Watson dropped from 103.1 to 98.

Move 3: announce after draft Houston signed UFA Tom Brady. In 2019 he signed for $23 million + another $1 m broken into game-game roster bonus. Despite elbow he had 373/613 for 61% and 4057 24 TDs to 8 INTs. His quick release and OLine knowing where he is will be beneficial. As with his deal at NE his $ could be a signing bonus spread over three years to lower cap ($7 each). Brady G.O.A.T. and still productive should ease anger of trading #4, keep team in hunt for playoffs while allowing a QB to develop under him as did Garoppolo. Another step in OBrien remaking Houston into NE.

Move 4: Brandon Scherff pay him the $15 m per use Fuller $10m + Fulton $7 with $2 left. That 2 + 1.9 saving from Scarlett pays Watson dead $.

Move 5: CB Byron Jones use Hop's $11m + Kelemete $3.25=14.25

1.2 Chase Young considered a "generational player" & would help Watt in 2019.

1.5 (Miami) I would try to trade this as a QB hungry team like Raiders know Chargers will take either Tua or Herbert at #6. I think Carr could go to NE who has cap, signed thru 2022 and fits the scheme better than he does in Oakland. At 1.5 Houston selects one of only three can't miss WR Jerry Jeudy.

1.18 WR Henry Ruggs III fastest player in draft. Brady feasts with these two receivers!

2.39 RB JK Dobbins 5'10" 214. I compare him to Josh Jacobs considered by many to be best RB 2019. He takes stress off Brady and reduces pass attempts that Sony Michael failed to do. Duke Johnson will be utilized by Brady better than by Watson.

2.56 CB A J Terrell

2.57 ours OLB Zac Baun replaces Scarlett with 76 Ts 19.5 for loss; 12.5 sacks & 10 QBs with 2 forced fumbles;2 PBUs and 1 INT. 6'3" 235 from LB U Wisconsin.

3.66 OT Robert Hunt you may not know him now..but you will. 6'5"322 RT/RG
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4.101 (Tunsil) QB Anthony Gordon will thrive under Brady
4.121 CB/safety* Lamar Jackson 6'3"215 Nebraska 40 Ts 3.5 for loss; 1 sk & 1 QB; 12 PBUs; 2 FF with 20.7 incompletion rate 3rd best Big 10. Physical with good press and bump & run. Plays well on perimeter & I'm interested in his 40 @ combine.
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A lot of moving parts but not nearly as impossible as some may think. There has to be a plan in place if the team planned on moving Watson and Hopkins for a boatload of picks.

I could entertain a thought of trying to move Watt to Green Bay if there was mutual interest from all parties involved. The Texans would probably get a 2020 RD2 and could have the big pick come in 2021 based on Watt's production and game played. 90% full season and/or solid production....RD1. An jury riddled season and little production....RD3. I'd be playing the odds that Watt would have a huge desire to deliver a big season for the Packers if given a chance. That's nice money added back to the cap.
 
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