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Watson or Mahomes? Who is more exciting?

Corrosion said:
I don't even think there's an argument at this point …. Mahomes far and away.

We can make excuses for Watson all day long …. but the bottom line is what it is. One of them won an MVP his first year as a starter and is setting the league afire in year two while the other one is struggling on multiple fronts.

Blame the coach.
Blame the OL.
Blame the playcalling.
Blame the refs.
Blame the receivers …. if you must.
Blame the water boy too.

But the results speak for themselves.
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Right.

I've no doubt that DW would benefit from switching places with Mahomes. But I've no guarantee he'd do exactly the things Mahomes is doing.

And conversely Mahomes wouldn't be putting up Madden numbers every week here, but I don't necessarily think his talent would sink entirely either.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Right.

I've no doubt that DW would benefit from switching places with Mahomes. But I've no guarantee he'd do exactly the things Mahomes is doing.

And conversely Mahomes wouldn't be putting up Madden numbers every week here, but I don't necessarily think his talent would sink entirely either.
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Hes the first true young qb of this era to do what mahomes and Lamar are doing rn. Why wouldn’t you think that? I suppose you think he won’t be a mvp candidate this season as well. Boy, I have news for you.


Besides, Mahomes is special in his own way and he cant do what Deshaun does. 400 yards, 50 rsh, 4 tds yeah ok


The day he wins a superbowl is the day I’ll believe in him. Until than he’s just another Phillip rivers.
 
DanielTx said:
Hes the first true young qb of this era to do what mahomes and Lamar are doing rn. Why wouldn’t you think that? I suppose you think he won’t be a mvp candidate this season as well. Boy, I have news for you.

Besides, Mahomes is special in his own way and he cant do what Deshaun does. 400 yards, 50 rsh, 4 tds yeah ok

The day he wins a superbowl is the day I’ll believe in him. Until than he’s just another Phillip rivers.
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Watson hasn't done what Mahomes is doing right now.

And why would Mahomes want to rush for 50 yards when he can just flick his wrist for that same 50?

So if winning a superbowl is the measuring stick..
 
Corrosion said:
I don't even think there's an argument at this point …. Mahomes far and away.

We can make excuses for Watson all day long …. but the bottom line is what it is. One of them won an MVP his first year as a starter and is setting the league afire in year two while the other one is struggling on multiple fronts.

Blame the coach.
Blame the OL.
Blame the playcalling.
Blame the refs.
Blame the receivers …. if you must.
Blame the water boy too.

But the results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...

I blame the coach
 
Mollywhopper said:
Watson hasn't done what Mahomes is doing right now.

And why would Mahomes want to rush for 50 yards when he can just flick his wrist for that same 50?

So if winning a superbowl is the measuring stick..
Click to expand...

4,000+ passing yds last season along 500 rushing yds 25 ptd with 5 rtd with the worst offensive pass line all while coming off an acl injury. Reality is Watson’s the better all around qb. The game is transitioning to dual threat.
He’s good at both while mahomes is an ok runner. Mahomes lacks what Brady, Peyton, brees, Big Ben and Watson have. Killer instinct.

And


I like Patrick. What a cool guy... I’m rooting for him... Just sucks the chiefs will regret picking him over #4 in a few years.
 
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DanielTx said:
Thanks, you answered the thread question. Watson’s more exciting because he runs more. He has more rushing tds than Patrick. When discussing the new age qbs it’s important you not only factor into the passing elements of the game but since it’s transition to dual threat qbs. It’s only right you acknowledge the run stats. Let’s see 4,000+ last season along 500 rushing yds? 25 ptd with 5 rtd. Reality is Watson’s the better all around qb.

And

I like Patrick. What a cool guy... I’m rooting for him... Just sucks the chiefs will regret picking him over #4 in a few years.
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Exciting is subjective.

One person may find running more exciting than laser precision bombs at the flick of the wrist. Some the other way around.

That's the point of the thread, not the answer.

And I have no desire to argue vehemently against Deshaun anyway. He's our qb and hope he guides us all the way.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Exciting is subjective.

One person may find running more exciting than laser precision bombs at the flick of the wrist. Some the other way around.

That's the point of the thread, not the answer.

And I have no desire to argue vehemently against Deshaun anyway. He's our qb and hope he guides us all the way.
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I wasn’t trying to make you look stupid. The media hypes up mahomes a lot and I thought it was important for our fans to know the truth why deshauns will always be better.
 
DanielTx said:
I wasn’t trying to make you look stupid. The media hypes up mahomes a lot and I thought it was important for our fans to know the truth why deshauns will always be better.
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I wasn't worried about the former.

And though I don't want to drone on about it, I still don't believe the latter. But you do, so great.

And I don't think it because of any media, but because of watching them both play.
 
Corrosion said:
I don't even think there's an argument at this point …. Mahomes far and away.

We can make excuses for Watson all day long …. but the bottom line is what it is. One of them won an MVP his first year as a starter and is setting the league afire in year two while the other one is struggling on multiple fronts.

Blame the coach.
Blame the OL.
Blame the playcalling.
Blame the refs.
Blame the receivers …. if you must.
Blame the water boy too.

But the results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...

I love how you are throwing out accolades and then claiming we are making excuses for Watson when it’s extremely clear to everyone but yourself that Mahomes is in a much better situation from day 1.

Watson had a gimmicky offense in place for him his first year and was the MVP of the league in those 6 games.

He had an MVP level performance week 1 and a sub par game 2.

Watson doesn’t have the luxury to sit back and hold the ball for his guys to get open like Dak and Mahomes. Mahomes has been pressured on 20% of his drop backs. Watson is over 50% through two games.

And yes we know. “You watched every one of his snaps in college and knew he was the guy to pick.”

If you switch Mahomes and Watson last year. We are talking about Watson’s MVP and how we have a great QB in Mahomes. One guy is in a much better situation than the other.


Edit: I also want to add what do you think happened to Mahomes in the game he was pressured most? It was the AFC Championship game where he put up a goose egg in the first half. He then proceeded to rack up stats when the Patriots started to play more prevent.
 
Young QB tiers:

Tweet from @BrandonThornNFL: @LedyardNFLDraft Mahomes, Watson
Wentz, Baker, Goff, Dak
Lamar, Jimmy G, Carr, Darnold
Kyler, Allen
Winston, Mariota
Brissett, Trubisky



Shameful that OBrien can only score 13 points with this talent
 
To me this is a hard comparison. Mahomes had the huge benefit of riding the bench for a year and learning from a good, maybe not great but good, starter. Watson got thrown out there his rookie year and had Savage to look up to. I've very curious to see how Mahomes does as the year progresses, this is his sophomore year and that has in the past been bad for QBs. Chiefs haven't exactly played top tier teams this year, the Raiders (who are still a big question mark) and the Hags (who even we beat despite the best efforts of the coaches). I really want to see how they handle Baltimore next week. Ravens had a great defense last year and this year Lamar Jackson is looking like a real QB.

Overall I think Watson is the better QB but yeah I think Mahomes will have the better career because he does seem to be in a better situation. Also I don't think Mahomes would do good here, a QB like Mahomes you HAVE to design around him because he is not plug and play into an offense. Texans you HAVE to have a plug and play QB because the damn offense ain't going to change.
 
DanielTx said:
I wasn’t trying to make you look stupid.
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images
 
Mollywhopper said:
And I have no desire to argue vehemently against Deshaun anyway. He's our qb and hope he guides us all the way.
Click to expand...


And here's the breakdown …. they somehow have this belief that because we think Mahomes is the better and more exciting QB that we don't want Watson to succeed ….


I'm not rooting for the Chiefs on Sunday ….
 
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Corrosion said:
And here's the breakdown …. they somehow have this believe that because we think Mahomes is the better and more exciting QB that we don't want Watson to succeed ….


I'm not rooting for the Chiefs on Sunday ….
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I’m not either but it’s mostly because I drafted Jackson. :kitten:
 
Watson is much more exciting because he is on my team. If Mahomes was on my team, he would be the one who is much more exciting. In that draft, I wanted Mahomes; not disappointed in the least that we got Watson. I think you come out a winner picking either of them.
 
DanielTx said:
4,000+ passing yds last season along 500 rushing yds 25 ptd with 5 rtd with the worst offensive pass line all while coming off an acl injury. Reality is Watson’s the better all around qb. The game is transitioning to dual threat.
He’s good at both while mahomes is an ok runner. Mahomes lacks what Brady, Peyton, brees, Big Ben and Watson have. Killer instinct.

And


I like Patrick. What a cool guy... I’m rooting for him... Just sucks the chiefs will regret picking him over #4 in a few years.
Click to expand...


The problem is you have no evidence to really support this theory since Watson has never proven what Mahomes has in a full regular season or in a playoff game. You're just spouting what you want to believe is true. Putting Watson up there with HOF QB's right now isn't even fair to Watson. You're doing a disservice to him simply by doing that.
 
ObsiWan said:
Can't wait for the Chiefs/Ravens game this week.

This game will show who the "most exciting" QB is and my money says he won't be wearing red.
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Man I was just looking at the schedule for sunday. That one made me smile. Looking forward to it. Noon kick and texans at 3.
 
Corrosion said:
I think there's a little "Homer" in all of us …. regardless of if we've won anything or not , its our team and the attachment can blind us of the facts.
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Some (many) fans are completely unreasonable.

If you think I'm being unreasonable then please feel free to say so.
 
ObsiWan said:
Can't wait for the Chiefs/Ravens game this week.

This game will show who the "most exciting" QB is and my money says he won't be wearing red.
Click to expand...


I'm having a hard time buying into Lamar Jackson …. Last year he averaged 75 yards a game on 58% completion and now he plays two very good games against two very suspect defenses and everyone wants to crown him as the second coming of Broadway Joe.

Miami and Arizona gave up the 6th and 7th most points per game last year.

Miami is playing for the #1 pick … from the get go. They are worse than that bad.

Arizona isn't much better than Miami.

KC on the other hand …. I'm a believer in Mahomes. Last years MVP lost a shootout to the GOAT in the AFC title game … and is putting up the same video game numbers again.
 
Corrosion said:
I'm having a hard time buying into Lamar Jackson …. Last year he averaged 75 yards a game on 58% completion and now he plays two very good games against two very suspect defenses and everyone wants to crown him as the second coming of Broadway Joe.

Miami and Arizona gave up the 6th and 7th most points per game last year.

Miami is playing for the #1 pick … from the get go. They are worse than that bad.

Arizona isn't much better than Miami.

KC on the other hand …. I'm a believer in Mahomes. Last years MVP lost a shootout to the GOAT in the AFC title game … and is putting up the same video game numbers again.
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I agree to a point. Jackson was a rookie last year. It's not like rookies don't make a jump their 2nd year. Peyton Manning was horrible his rookie season and vastly improved year 2.

We've got all season to find out what Jackson is really all about, but bad competition or not, Raven fan has got to like how it's trending.
 
ObsiWan said:
Can't wait for the Chiefs/Ravens game this week.

This game will show who the "most exciting" QB is and my money says he won't be wearing red.
Click to expand...

Lol! ^^^^

You wouldn't bet a dime on Jackson in a comparison to Mahomes.

They aren't even in the same ball park.
 
With his arm talent alone, Mahomes is more exciting. Then you add Andy Reid's offense and play calling and it's not even close.
 
Corrosion said:
I'm having a hard time buying into Lamar Jackson …. Last year he averaged 75 yards a game on 58% completion and now he plays two very good games against two very suspect defenses and everyone wants to crown him as the second coming of Broadway Joe.

Miami and Arizona gave up the 6th and 7th most points per game last year.

Miami is playing for the #1 pick … from the get go. They are worse than that bad.

Arizona isn't much better than Miami.

KC on the other hand …. I'm a believer in Mahomes. Last years MVP lost a shootout to the GOAT in the AFC title game … and is putting up the same video game numbers again.
Click to expand...
I feel ya, know two ravens Homer's that are resisting the hype. They want to believe but they both know he hasnt proved anything yet.

I cant wait for Sunday.
 
Corrosion said:
I'm having a hard time buying into Lamar Jackson …. Last year he averaged 75 yards a game on 58% completion and now he plays two very good games against two very suspect defenses and everyone wants to crown him as the second coming of Broadway Joe.

Miami and Arizona gave up the 6th and 7th most points per game last year.

Miami is playing for the #1 pick … from the get go. They are worse than that bad.

Arizona isn't much better than Miami.

KC on the other hand …. I'm a believer in Mahomes. Last years MVP lost a shootout to the GOAT in the AFC title game … and is putting up the same video game numbers again.
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I think he can do more than I gave him credit for initially. He's a good kid from what I can tell. I think he can do enough where he can make their offense a threat and a tough team for this year. Its his long term future where injuries will pile up and teams will eventually figure out how to guard him easier. He simply doesn't have a talented enough arm to be a long term starter, but he could do some exciting things for a year or two maybe.
 
Speedy said:
I agree to a point. Jackson was a rookie last year. It's not like rookies don't make a jump their 2nd year. Peyton Manning was horrible his rookie season and vastly improved year 2.

We've got all season to find out what Jackson is really all about, but bad competition or not, Raven fan has got to like how it's trending.
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I put them at 6-6 at the 12 game mark.

Losses to KC , Seattle , NE , Texans , Rams , 49ers.
 
Speedy said:
Really? I think they win their division.
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They could go 10-6 …. but I expect they are 6-6 at the 12 game mark.

The end of their schedule is … Bills , Jets , Browns Steelers.


Of this group of teams - which do you think they beat ?

@ Chiefs
@ SeaDucks
Home for NE
Home for Houston
@ Rams
Home for 49ers

I don't think they beat the Chiefs , SeaDucks , Patriots or Rams regardless of where they play.
That leaves Houston & SF and I believe both are better teams with better QB's.

That also assumes they sweep their division games between now ands then. They play Browns , Bengals Steelers back to back to back weeks 4-5-6.
 
Corrosion said:
They could go 10-6 …. but I expect they are 6-6 at the 12 game mark.

The end of their schedule is … Bills , Jets , Browns Steelers.


Of this group of teams - which do you think they beat ?

@ Chiefs
@ SeaDucks
Home for NE
Home for Houston
@ Rams
Home for 49ers

I don't think they beat the Chiefs , SeaDucks , Patriots or Rams regardless of where they play.
That leaves Houston & SF and I believe both are better teams with better QB's.

That also assumes they sweep their division games between now ands then. They play Browns , Bengals Steelers back to back to back weeks 4-5-6.
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As you pointed out, it has been just 2 games against some pretty bad teams. Never really looked at their schedule, just didn't think Pittsburgh would be all that even before Ben went down. I don't buy into Cleveland, and I don't expect much from Cincy.

They go 4-2 against the division, beat the Jets and Bills, that's 8-2 right there. Even if they split the other 6 games, that's 11-5.
 
Speedy said:
Really? I think they win their division.
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so do I.
They're already two up on the Steelers and Bengals and one up on the Browns.

None of those teams have their act together, as Speedy pointed out... well, not at this point anyway. Yeah,
 
ObsiWan said:
so do I.
They're already two up on the Steelers and Bengals and one up on the Browns.

None of those teams have their act together, as Speedy pointed out... well, not at this point anyway. Yeah,
Click to expand...


I expect they win the division too …. by beating the teams in it. I expect them to sweep it. That's 6 W's right there.

What I don't expect is that they beat the better teams on their schedule - KC , NE , Seattle , Rams.

What they have done so far is beat up on the two worst teams in the league …. that's all about to change as they get to the middle of the season and face 3 teams who were in last years conference title games along with Seattle and the 49ers who are 2-0 and won both games just as convincingly as the Ravens - against better opponents.

Lets talk about how great Lamar Jackson is after that stretch of games , not after one team that's not trying in Miami and another that's just bad.
 
Double Barrel said:
I'd love to see Watson's play with the consistent pass protection that Mahomes gets in KC.

Very annoying that this is a constant theme with this franchise.
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Not just that though, KC has receivers in the pattern that are damn near everywhere on the field. Deep, in the middle, along the sidelines, down the seams, in the flat, everywhere. Not the case with the Texans.
 
Speedy said:
Not just that though, KC has receivers in the pattern that are damn near everywhere on the field. Deep, in the middle, along the sidelines, down the seams, in the flat, everywhere. Not the case with the Texans.
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I'm beginning to wonder if that's by design (I know it is but don't know if this is the reason) …. but to cover for Watson's lack of vision across the middle. He just seems more comfortable with throws outside the numbers ? .. So OB designs the plays as such ?

Just a recent theory …


Watson's only looked like a "Good Quarterback" on one drive so far this season - that drive lasted all of two plays. Other than that he's struggled throwing the ball.


He really needs help pre-snap identifying where pressure is going to come from , seeing the middle of the field and getting rid of the ball quickly - seems the more time he has , the more he takes - Again that may be because of the route combinations all of which seem to take all day to develop.

Maybe OB's ways of keeping Watson comfortable are getting in the way …. take the training wheels off and make him use the whole field …. Watson can be better for it or we can go back to looking for a QB.
 
Corrosion said:
I'm beginning to wonder if that's by design (I know it is but don't know if this is the reason) …. but to cover for Watson's lack of vision across the middle. He just seems more comfortable with throws outside the numbers ? .. So OB designs the plays as such ?

Just a recent theory …


Watson's only looked like a "Good Quarterback" on one drive so far this season - that drive lasted all of two plays. Other than that he's struggled throwing the ball.


He really needs help pre-snap identifying where pressure is going to come from , seeing the middle of the field and getting rid of the ball quickly - seems the more time he has , the more he takes - Again that may be because of the route combinations all of which seem to take all day to develop.

Maybe OB's ways of keeping Watson comfortable are getting in the way …. take the training wheels off and make him use the whole field …. Watson can be better for it or we can go back to looking for a QB.
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I think other teams can easily destroy OBriens scheme and there's only so much Watson can do.
 
TheKDog said:
I think other teams can easily destroy OBriens scheme and there's only so much Watson can do.
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Ask yourself why he's running that scheme -

Multiple routes outside the numbers on the same side if the field?
No RB screens.
TE's blocking the vast majority of the time.
No rub or pick routes.
Never seems to be a check down.

I really need to go watch the All22 ….
 
Corrosion said:
I expect they win the division too …. by beating the teams in it. I expect them to sweep it. That's 6 W's right there.

What I don't expect is that they beat the better teams on their schedule - KC , NE , Seattle , Rams.

What they have done so far is beat up on the two worst teams in the league …. that's all about to change as they get to the middle of the season and face 3 teams who were in last years conference title games along with Seattle and the 49ers who are 2-0 and won both games just as convincingly as the Ravens - against better opponents.

Lets talk about how great Lamar Jackson is after that stretch of games , not after one team that's not trying in Miami and another that's just bad.
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Chiefs opponents weren't elite either. Jags in the game where Foles went down so their backup hadn't even had as many reps as he had before the game with us and the Raiders who are as big a question mark as the Browns. I agree Ravens beating the fins is like taking candy from a baby. One saving grace the Ravens might have is that they had the number 1 defense last year and I don't think they lost many. Oh the other side of the table Chiefs have got a decent defense but its not top by any means and the Jackson/Brown combo is looking good.

I can see Ravens beating Seattle, Rams, 49ers and the game with the Chiefs being a bit of a toss up. Jimmy G is looking good but at the same time they beat the Bucs and the Bengals. Truth is none of the teams that are the top right now have played against quality opponents yet. I agree that this will be the real test of the Ravens but also the first real test of the 2019 Chiefs.

Frankly I don't see anyone beating the Pats this year unless Brown gets suspended.
 
QB rankings after week 2:

8. Deshaun Watson (LW: 10)

Watson has absolutely no protection in Houston. The Texans invested 809 first-round picks and have still allowed 10 sacks. Yet somehow, Watson has played well with 427 yards and three touchdowns, even after a down performance against Jacksonville.

1. Patrick Mahomes (LW: 1)

Who else? Mahomes isn’t regressing. He’s breaking the conventional thinking of every football fan/analyst/observer on earth. In two games, Mahomes has thrown for 821 yards. That’s 92 more than Dalton, who ranks second. Mahomes also has seven touchdowns, no interceptions and is averaging a comical 10.7 yards per attempt. If this continues, Mahomes will win his second consecutive MVP.


https://fansided.com/2019/09/17/nfl-quarterback-rankings-patrick-mahomes/7/
 
Corrosion said:
I'm beginning to wonder if that's by design (I know it is but don't know if this is the reason) …. but to cover for Watson's lack of vision across the middle. He just seems more comfortable with throws outside the numbers ? .. So OB designs the plays as such ?

Just a recent theory …


Watson's only looked like a "Good Quarterback" on one drive so far this season - that drive lasted all of two plays. Other than that he's struggled throwing the ball.


He really needs help pre-snap identifying where pressure is going to come from , seeing the middle of the field and getting rid of the ball quickly - seems the more time he has , the more he takes - Again that may be because of the route combinations all of which seem to take all day to develop.

Maybe OB's ways of keeping Watson comfortable are getting in the way …. take the training wheels off and make him use the whole field …. Watson can be better for it or we can go back to looking for a QB.
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This is rather hilarious. Coming from a self proclaimed scout.


Every throwing TD is to the middle of the field against the Saints. Shoot most throws were. You actually may have more credibility if you were to say he had issues outside the numbers. What are you looking at on here that I am not seeing? I hope nobody on here takes you serious. You are literally spitting out BS.
 
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corry said:
This is rather hilarious. Coming from a self proclaimed scout.


Every throwing TD is to the middle of the field against the Saints. Shoot most throws were. You actually may have more credibility if you were to say he had issues outside the numbers. What are you looking at on here that I am not seeing? I hope nobody on here takes you serious. You are literally spitting out BS.
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Look dude , you can cherry pick a couple plays if that suits your agenda …

That doesn't change the fact that there is a reoccurring theme that is associated with negative plays , pressure and stalled drives and that is the propensity of OB to call plays where multiple pass catchers end up outside the numbers on the same side of the field - without a safety valve.

The statement of why OB does this was simply a theory …. with little to prove it true or false , just wondering aloud why does he do this.
 
Corrosion said:
Look dude , you can cherry pick a couple plays if that suits your agenda …

That doesn't change the fact that there is a reoccurring theme that is associated with negative plays , pressure and stalled drives and that is the propensity of OB to call plays where multiple pass catchers end up outside the numbers on the same side of the field - without a safety valve.

The statement of why OB does this was simply a theory …. with little to prove it true or false , just wondering aloud why does he do this.
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My only agenda is to question where you are getting your “ideas” from.

You are bringing little analysis and just talking out loud. I get annoyed when people are “negative” and preach ideas as facts without using support.

That film I supplied. That’s 66% of Watson’s throws and a majority were to the middle of the field. Hardly what I would
call cherry picking.
 
Tweet from @riversmccown:

I don't think he had much to work with on the two sacks he took this week. Like I said when I posted the first one, he could have stepped up quicker. But other than that, it's not like there were easy checkdowns in front of him. JAX covered the few underneaths well.
 
Corrosion said:
Look dude , you can cherry pick a couple plays if that suits your agenda …

That doesn't change the fact that there is a reoccurring theme that is associated with negative plays , pressure and stalled drives and that is the propensity of OB to call plays where multiple pass catchers end up outside the numbers on the same side of the field - without a safety valve.

The statement of why OB does this was simply a theory …. with little to prove it true or false , just wondering aloud why does he do this.
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Methinks someone(s) may be reading the play wrong. Every play called has multiple options and if everyone is not on the same page it's gonna look like a cluster**** of cockroaches. How have the Texans looked? It comes down to coaching but the players have to execute
 
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