Is he good at anything? Or just maybe average at some things?
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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!
- Thread starter Carr Bombed
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Is he good at anything? Or just maybe average at some things?
Shishkabob
All Pro
I mean we do have to stop using the he turned around an 0-3 team to a playoff team as an argument for his coaching acumen though
1981 Jets HC Walt Michaels 39-47-1
1982 Bucs HC John McKay 44-88-1
1992 Chargers HC Bobby Ross 77-68
1995 Lions HC Wayne Fontes 67-71
1998 Bills HC Wade Phillips 83-69
None of those guys are really known as great or even good HCs but they all accomplished what O'Brien did this year. Commend the man for what he was able to accomplish, and how he was able to keep the team together this year. But lets not act like turning an 0-3 record to a playoff appearance is a qualifier to make him a good HC, if anything if the trend follows how it did the other 5 he won't be a good HC
1981 Jets HC Walt Michaels 39-47-1
1982 Bucs HC John McKay 44-88-1
1992 Chargers HC Bobby Ross 77-68
1995 Lions HC Wayne Fontes 67-71
1998 Bills HC Wade Phillips 83-69
None of those guys are really known as great or even good HCs but they all accomplished what O'Brien did this year. Commend the man for what he was able to accomplish, and how he was able to keep the team together this year. But lets not act like turning an 0-3 record to a playoff appearance is a qualifier to make him a good HC, if anything if the trend follows how it did the other 5 he won't be a good HC
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
None of those guys are really known as great or even good HCs but they all accomplished what O'Brien did this year. Commend the man for what he was able to accomplish, and how he was able to keep the team together this year. But lets not act like turning an 0-3 record to a playoff appearance is a qualifier to make him a good HC, if anything if the trend follows how it did the other 5 he won't be a good HC[/QUOTE]
So what is a qualifier then for a good HC in your eyes?
So what is a qualifier then for a good HC in your eyes?
So when is the HC in charge of personnel decisions? Does he have input yes. But only a very few HC's have say so in personnel decisions and BOB wasn't one of those until this offseason.
I'm sorry but McKay was a great HC who took an expansion team to a NFC championship game in 5 years.
Rpss took the Charges to a SB.
McVay was the 49ers GM that brought Steve Young to San Francisco.
You're discounting some great people and their contributions to the NFL.
This has absolutely nothing to do with BOB
Texansballer74
The Marine
Dang man what are people reading around here. People on here have given OB plenty of dang praise. Some of yall act like he is immune from any type criticism. Some of yall get to darn defensive when it comes to that coach. Who hasn't figured this darn thing out yet. Maybe and that's a big maybe, he will have this bad boy figured out next season.
OB firing squad, you'll have to understand that skit we seen against the Colts, was very frustrating to see. It was mainly bad because it's a repeated offense.
OB firing squad, you'll have to understand that skit we seen against the Colts, was very frustrating to see. It was mainly bad because it's a repeated offense.
Does that make Dom Capers a great HC?
He took Carolina to a championship game in it's 2nd season. When you look at the overall record, that was a fluke. Exactly like the 2018 Texans going 11-5 in the regular season. OB is a 9-7 to 7-9 coach who can get lucky and go 11-5 or be unlucky and go 4-12. It's hilarious watching you go from blaming global warming on Rick Smith to trying to make OB into BB.
What is it about OB that makes you think he is a capable head coach/ offensive coordinator. Give some details as far as scheme, personnel packages and play calling that make you believe this.
Texansballer74
The Marine
He will have rebuttal for this stance. Mainly RS didn't provide him with the talent to be successful.
Max
Veteran
What changed in the power structure this off-season?
I need to know what 'hucking' is before I sign up.
I keep asking this question and I don't think I have yet to read an answer. So, since SteelB brings it up, I will ask again.
You seem to advocate for O'Brien to have a "say so in personnel decisions". My questions. O'Brien seems to struggle being a HC and OC.
- Why do you advocate for adding personnel duties to his plate? Besides Belichick, how many HCs are also making personnel decisions?
- Exactly what has O'Brien done to merit giving him say so in personnel decisions?
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Yes I'm serious.. I don't give a crap about the Oline (BTW, O'Brien has needed that his entire tenure here regardless of who we sign.) I'm talking about all the coaching mistakes he's made.
It's hilarious how in your haste to defend O'Brien, you have resorted to childish name calling. Here is another example of not utilizing the available talent. The number of catches are in parenthesis.
In 2014, Blue had 18 catches while Garret (18), Griffin (10) and Fiedorowicz (4) catches
In 2015, Blue had 15 catches while Garret (4), Griffin (20) and Fiedorowicz (17) catches
In 2016, Blue had 12 catches while Griffin (50) and Fiedorowicz (54) catches!
To his credit, in 2016, he decided the TE group was under utilized and he addressed the issue. However, did it really need Osweiler or three seasons for him to figure out he needed the TEs to move the ball more consistently? Were the TEs max protecting in 2014 and 2015? Did the TEs all of a sudden gained the ability to catch the ball? Why didn't they recognize before 2016 that the TE group was under utilized? Why did it take three seasons to recognize Blue shouldn't be getting as many catches as your TEs? Why did it take nearly three season for O'Brien's offense to match the TE production of Kubiak's offense?
So, based on previous behavior, he might get the rookie TEs involved by the 2020 season.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Throw.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
It was routinely stated by Bob and Rick Smith they both had input into the draft and personnel decisions. You can pretend it wasn't true all you want, but it doesn't make it so. Why would Rick Smith want to sabotage his hand picked HC by enforcing players on him that were unwanted? The simple answer is he wouldn't, and he didn't. Bob is just as much responsible as RS for the chasm of talent this team currently employs. One is no longer here, the other remains. Quelle Surprise...
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Many of us have mentioned on far too many times as to what OB's as an NFL HC shortcomings are in our eyes. There are several who disagree.
Simple, for those that support him please make a case for the following:
1. Why is OB the best HC/OC for the Texans?
2. What makes him such a solid option moving forward after the last 5 seasons?
For the sake of this exercise, let's leave the GM's out of the conversation. RS deserved what happened to him b/c in all honesty he failed miserably at managing a full 7 round draft and couldn't keep the cap in order b/c of foolish signings and extensions. Gaine gets kudo's for his first NFL draft even though it was handcuffed. His FA signings could be questioned. He's got both the cap and draft in his favor this season, so this will be his big season. With that out of the way, let's hear why OB is the right guy to lead the Texans to not only a SB but could be the HC to keep them relevant for several seasons to come.
Simple, for those that support him please make a case for the following:
1. Why is OB the best HC/OC for the Texans?
2. What makes him such a solid option moving forward after the last 5 seasons?
For the sake of this exercise, let's leave the GM's out of the conversation. RS deserved what happened to him b/c in all honesty he failed miserably at managing a full 7 round draft and couldn't keep the cap in order b/c of foolish signings and extensions. Gaine gets kudo's for his first NFL draft even though it was handcuffed. His FA signings could be questioned. He's got both the cap and draft in his favor this season, so this will be his big season. With that out of the way, let's hear why OB is the right guy to lead the Texans to not only a SB but could be the HC to keep them relevant for several seasons to come.
What does it matter what any of us think? No one's opinion is getting changed nor does it make a difference as to what will happen
When I say he's a bad talent evaluator I'm talking about things like running Lamar Miller up the gut, using Blue as a check down, starting Martin in place of Mancz, not starting Mancz as either guard, starting Rankin at LT, spending a complete off-season with one guy named starting QB, then benching him week 1 for the guy everyone else said should be your starting QB, not once, but twice.
I mean, surely you knew Mancz should have started over XSF?
Why do you think BO'b was Rick's hand picked coach? Rick had nothing to do with hiring BO'b. McNair hired an outside firm to identify BO'b as his guy.
Texas Jake
Rookie
And a GM who has a similar philosophy and vision as to what type of team to build. I think this was the biggest divide between the two.
This is what I was trying to say, but was too lazy to type it out.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I don't "support" BoB per say, sure some will disagree with that, but I would like to take a crack at your questions from my point of view.
1. OC he is not, I've stated several times I hate BoB as a OC and if they go into the season with him in that position I believe it will be a big strike against them right off the bat. As HC I think he has done a better job but that also depends on what you think a HCs job really is. To me the most important thing is to be the face of the coaching staff and to keep the locker room and the coaching staff on the same page and motivated. I know I keep harping on it but a coach, any coach, that can keep the team pushing hard after a 0-3 start deserves some respect in my book for that. Anyone that has ever been any kind of manager when a business is going through a rough patch will tell you that morale is the hardest thing to deal with. Also despite his distain for the media, something I actually share and view as a plus, he doesn't throw anyone under the bus and takes the blame on himself.
It would have been easy for the Texans to tank the season and say "We didn't have the players we needed or the draft picks and FA options to get the players we needed" but they, including BoB didn't do that, some on this board have said basically that but the Texans themselves have not. The team as a whole, coaches and players, pulled a stunt out of Rocky and kept at it when everyone said they were done, don't forget Rocky lost in the first movie to. Its why I have said several times BoB earned one more year in my book.
2. This is simple to me, while Watson is on a rookie contract, Nuk is locked down and playing at a high level and Watt is still fairly healthy and we have, on paper at least, a talented defense its a case of better the devil you know than the devil you don't know. If we were to fire BoB today and bring in someone else it would take them 3-5 years to get their system and players in place. If we get lucky and get a great coach they might can get that number down to 2 years but they still wastes the prime years of our top players. All that assumes that any coach we get is an upgrade, and frankly from those I've seen out there that's debatable, and not get someone that is the same or even worse.
Going into the playoffs lots of people were talking about our window and how long we've waited and other things that boil down to we should be in win now mode. Well its hard to do that with a new HC and before anyone brings up Kubiak and the Broncos the situation is different. Kubiak had a HoF QB in Manning, an aging Manning but he was still the vet that understand what it meant to be in and win the big game and Kubiak had one of the, arguably, best defense of all time. Also frankly Kubiak might just be a better coach than BoB but that doesn't matter, Kubiak was just hired by the Vikings and he wasn't looking for a HC job anyway. I know there are some good coaches out there but what proven, vet coaches that would be a clear upgrade are there that the Texans could realistically get? I'm not ready to roll the dice on giving someone else their first HC job, which this is BoB's.
So those are the answers from my point of view. I don't like BoB as a coach per say but I don't hate him either. I'm in wait and see mode with this season being my decider. I will say though that also depends on Watson or Nuk not going out for the season 3 games in, no coach could win with the Texans current talent without those two.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
Except they didn't? They did when hiring Kubiak. They did when hiring Gaine.
I think he's already shown he's not a Great head coach.
What he hasn't shown is if he's adequate.
noxiousdog
Rookie
You're making the assumption that I think more highly of O'Brien than I do.
He's slightly better than average and that bears out in the records against good teams that was posted. In addition, I completely agree with your last paragraph. That's clearly his biggest weakness and if he can fix that, he's likely to become a significantly better coach.
Truth of the matter is I know better than to argue with a self-absorbed narcissist with an over inflated Ego.
I hate these kind of stupid responses. “What difference does it make”. Then why even have a message board? Why do you even get on here?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Question is... is that a good thing?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
First of all, to clarify, I'm not a fire BOB guy. He's done some good things with this team, but at the same time, he is far from perfect and deserves his fair share of criticism.
I mainly commented on the fact the defense felt they knew what the Texans were going to do. TBH, I'm ok with this, as long as the Texans can still execute. There's nothing better than an offense that's going to impose their will and nothing the defense can do. But in this case, that's not a good thing.
I'm not a football expert, nor do I watch alot of game film. I think at a high-level, so this is what I know. Since BOB has taken over, we have yet to have a good offense. I know the constant argument in his defense is the lack of talent, injuries, Rick was "misaligned", or even some dare to say Rick was sabotaging him... but I don't buy those excuses. I don't see any reason why we should give BOB a benefit of the doubt when it comes to the offense. What exactly has he done to deserve this? What exactly has he done to deserve to be both the HC & OC? What exactly has he done to deserve playcalling duties? What exactly has he done to deserve the right to have a GM that will give him more power in regards to personnel?
In other words, the Texans continue to struggle to get to that next level as an elite team. What's the FO's solution to this? It appears to be give BOB more power. Why? What has he done to deserve that?
He had a nine game win streak against mostly crappy opponents and got lucky on a few of those games. That’s his best. When it mattered most at the end of the season and when we played good teams we saw what he’s capable of. Some just can’t see past that nine game win streak that was sandwiched between three straight losses and going 2 and 2 against two decent teams and two horrible teams. Then getting embarrassed in the playoffs against one of those decent teams that got their ass handed to them the next round.
To answer your question, NOTHONG!!!!
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
And some can't see past their blind hate to look at the whole picture. Yeah Colts handed our ass to us and then got their ass handed to them, but there is some context that needs to be added. First we went 14 points in the hole within what the first 5 minutes or so and then Watson had his worst NFL game ever and one of his worst games period, that happens sometimes. Next the Colts got their ass handed to them by the Chiefs, you've heard of them right? Number 1 seed in the AFC, which is much tougher this year then the NFC, the team Sportsline has at like a 52% chance of winning the superbowl, in other words a team that has been kicking everyone's ass and is predicted to keep doing so.
Also lets not forget that we were only playing the Colts because the defense **** the bed against Philly. Cak said in another thread that 28 points should be enough to beat anybody. Well he's right, in the NFL 28 points should be enough to beat anybody and we put up 30. The one hitch to that is that your defense has got to hold the other team and they didn't. Also Philly is more than a "decent team" they came within a hairs breath of knocking the Saints out, the NFC's answer to the Chiefs, and were the defending champions who did lose some keys players but kept 17 of 22 starters from their Superbowl team. In the modern NFL that's pretty good.
Now I'm sure you'll disregard all this and say I'm just making excuses or I'm nothing but a BoB support or some other bullshit to justify ignoring any point I might have. That's whats getting to me about some of the people calling for his head, they complain about supporters ignoring facts and then turn around and do the same thing.
And some can't see past their blind hate to look at the whole picture. Yeah Colts handed our ass to us and then got their ass handed to them, but there is some context that needs to be added. First we went 14 points in the hole within what the first 5 minutes or so and then Watson had his worst NFL game ever and one of his worst games period, that happens sometimes. Next the Colts got their ass handed to them by the Chiefs, you've heard of them right? Number 1 seed in the AFC, which is much tougher this year then the NFC, the team Sportsline has at like a 52% chance of winning the superbowl, in other words a team that has been kicking everyone's ass and is predicted to keep doing so.
Also lets not forget that we were only playing the Colts because the defense **** the bed against Philly. Cak said in another thread that 28 points should be enough to beat anybody. Well he's right, in the NFL 28 points should be enough to beat anybody and we put up 30. The one hitch to that is that your defense has got to hold the other team and they didn't. Also Philly is more than a "decent team" they came within a hairs breath of knocking the Saints out, the NFC's answer to the Chiefs, and were the defending champions who did lose some keys players but kept 17 of 22 starters from their Superbowl team. In the modern NFL that's pretty good.
Now I'm sure you'll disregard all this and say I'm just making excuses or I'm nothing but a BoB support or some other bullshit to justify ignoring any point I might have. That's whats getting to me about some of the people calling for his head, they complain about supporters ignoring facts and then turn around and do the same thing.
One of the TDs against Philly was a one play, five yard drive because the defense forced a turnover near the opponent goalline. I think I'd credit the defense for that one.
Also if Watson had a bad game, can't it be due to a poor offensive game plan and play calling? This seems to he a recurrent theme with obrien:disastrous offensive performance by the QBs in the platoffs. Watson is a good QB, he's not osweiler or hoyer, so I'm more skeptical of just blaming him
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I come here for football talk. Of which for the last 50 pages are so there has been little to none of in this thread. Just a bunch of regurgitated name-calling and he said/she said bullshit like a bunch of 14 year old kids. When is enough enough? How many ways can someone say they hate OB? There has been absolutely no new info discussed in how long? Don't you get tired of all the
?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I come here for football talk. Of which for the last 50 pages are so there has been little to none of in this thread. Just a bunch of regurgitated name-calling and he said/she said bullshit like a bunch of 14 year old kids. When is enough enough? How many ways can someone say they hate OB? There has been absolutely no new info discussed in how long? Don't you get tired of all the
I feel like I'm stuck in this cycle and can't get out of it! As much as I tell myself to stay away from TT and let all of this stuff blow over, I check-in once in a while to only see a post I feel like I HAVE to respond to.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
So basically what you're saying is coaching is directly related to talent, which I disagree with.
If you're a good coach, then you're a good coach, and you make the most with what you are given.
Watson played like a rookie QB in the playoffs. But if you want to blame that on BOB the that's your perrogative.
Well, the top 4teams are the last teams standing, so feel free to disagree with me, but talent really matters.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Totally agree. Talent matters. Just saying coaching & talent aren’t related.
Like if BB decided to coach the Cardinals... he’s still a good coach. He didn’t become bad all of a sudden because his team has no talent.
noxiousdog
Rookie
Coaching is absolutely directly related to talent.
Prior to Tom Brady, Belichick had one winning season (out of 6).
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
What you are given and what you wanted. That dude act like neither of those coaches didn't have any input at all. F what they have said and F what has been actually reported.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Nobody thought Brady would last in the NFL. What a steal by Belichick. And he is the one that coached that man up. People try to use this argument too often. But never bring up the fact that Brady was just a game manager in the beginning.
I'm going to enjoy the hysterical posts that will be on this MB from now until next season.
If you don't already think he is a good HC, why do you so vigorously defend him? There has to be something you've seen that tells you a full season with a healthy Watson/Hopkins/Fuller IV/Watt/Clowney etc. would put this team over the top.
Tell me one thing about OB's offensive scheme that tells you he only needs the right personnel to be successful. I have many reasons that I believed Smith was a bad GM. You had a bazillion. Literally everything bad in the Universe was Smith's fault. You can't tout one thing about OB that you think makes him a decent HC or offensive mind?
gary
Hall of Fame
Enjoy yourself.
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