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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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if this is about Bill and head coach versus OC, little dated but this had him at 14. I aint a fan of some of his game day and OC work, but on this list, there are not tons of coaches I would rather have. We see his warts because we are so close and only see highlights of many of the others. I am thankful he gives us fewer horrid game day management mistakes since the start of the season, and see him top 10ish

The hoodie, Payton, Tomlin, Lynn, Harbaugh, Reid and Carroll probably beat him out for me. McVay and Shanny have yet to prove it, great offensive minds but I want to see how McVay does over time. They gave him a hell of a roster

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-2018-ranking-nfl-head-coaches-no-1-easy-tougher-140031738.html

So if we hate him so much, we also need a better answer
 
if this is about Bill and head coach versus OC, little dated but this had him at 14. I aint a fan of some of his game day and OC work, but on this list, there are not tons of coaches I would rather have. We see his warts because we are so close and only see highlights of many of the others. I am thankful he gives us fewer horrid game day management mistakes since the start of the season, and see him top 10ish

The hoodie, Payton, Tomlin, Lynn, Harbaugh, Reid and Carroll probably beat him out for me. McVay and Shanny have yet to prove it, great offensive minds but I want to see how McVay does over time. They gave him a hell of a roster

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-2018-ranking-nfl-head-coaches-no-1-easy-tougher-140031738.html

So if we hate him so much, we also need a better answer
 
Rich Schmidt said:
if this is about Bill and head coach versus OC, little dated but this had him at 14. I aint a fan of some of his game day and OC work, but on this list, there are not tons of coaches I would rather have. We see his warts because we are so close and only see highlights of many of the others. I am thankful he gives us fewer horrid game day management mistakes since the start of the season, and see him top 10ish

The hoodie, Payton, Tomlin, Lynn, Harbaugh, Reid and Carroll probably beat him out for me. McVay and Shanny have yet to prove it, great offensive minds but I want to see how McVay does over time. They gave him a hell of a roster

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-2018-ranking-nfl-head-coaches-no-1-easy-tougher-140031738.html

So if we hate him so much, we also need a better answer
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In all fairness that article came out prior to the season. Im sure if a more recent opinion piece came out that he would be in the top 10. Its all bout results in the coaching world and he's getting them as bad as it may look or seem thats still 10 wins (and counting). Offensive philosophy and execution? A convo for after the season.
 
Porky said:
IMHO, OB has the makings of being a good HC but only if he is willing to shed his OC duties. And he doesn't need a yes man in Ryan who is just a figure head. He needs a real OC who will bring his own unique ideas to play design and play calling. Doesn't mean that OB's not part of the big picture on offense, but he needs someone to really drill down and do the dirty work and figure out how to get the best out of Watson and the offense in general.

As it stands, BOB (for me) is a slightly under average HC, but if he's willing to sacrifice is ego for the good of the team, he's got potential to be much better.
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how do you know Ryan is a "yes" man not capable of coming up with his own ideas? Is it because he works for O'Brien so if he gets promoted he has to just be a "yes" man? If that's the case the Patriots have been promoting "yes" men with great success for nearly 2 decades now
 
sandman said:
I was just replying to your statement that taking away the defensive TD's, the Texans didn't nearly score 30 points a game in three of their last 4 games.

Titans - scored 34 points, no defensive TDs

Browns - scored 29 points, one defensive TD

Jets - scored 29 points, no defensive TD's

This is 3 of their last 4 games. This is 28.3 points per game by the offense. Context and math are your issues, not mine.

Your assertion was wrong, but you continue to double down with arguments that any scoring drive by the offense because of a defensive turnover does't count. And that somehow FG's are not real points. You are literally making up metrics to fit your narrative.

In your world, the only scores that the offense can take credit for are touchdown drives that start with a kickoff. Which outside of once per game, indicates the defense didn't do their job and let the other team score.
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just to play devil's advocate even though I think I agree with your point. I don't think you can use an average of 3 games to say they scored nearly 30 points in 3 of their last 4 games(not including defensive scores). Fact is the offense has scored over 30 in 1 game, almost 30 in another, and only 22 and 21 in the other 2. They didn't score almost 30 in 3 of their last 4 games, that is just false.
 
Shishkabob said:
just to play devil's advocate even though I think I agree with your point. I don't think you can use an average of 3 games to say they scored nearly 30 points in 3 of their last 4 games(not including defensive scores). Fact is the offense has scored over 30 in 1 game, almost 30 in another, and only 22 and 21 in the other 2. They didn't score almost 30 in 3 of their last 4 games, that is just false.
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In their last 4 games the team has averaged 28.25 points per game... how many of those don't count?
 
JB said:
In their last 4 games the team has averaged 28.25 points per game... how many of those don't count?
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I am not saying any of the points they scored don't count. All points count to me Idc where they come from our defense could out score our offense every game for all I care as long as we out score the other team by the time the clock hits 0.

I'm just saying when making a statement like "the offense has scored almost 30 points in 3 of their last 4 games" you can't use an average. If so I can say look at our 3 game stretch between the jags and broncos game, the offense scored almost 30 points in those games. sure the average of 27 is almost 30, but the actual scores of 20, 42, and 19 show that 2 are not almost 30 while 1 is well above it.

same in this scenario. 1 game over 30(34), 1 game almost 30(29), and 2 not close to 30 (21,22)
 
At the end of the day all that truly matters is did your team win. As long as you get the ring no one really cares if you did it by a missed field goal, a lucky interception, a badly timed penalty or a gust of wind that blows a seemly perfect throw off course. If the only wins anybody counts are where one team came out and completely dominated then there are almost no games that can count. Would I prefer we get wins because the team was firing on all cylinders, of course I would, but I will still take a lucky win over a hard fought loss.

And for those still calling for O'Brien to be fired at this point you really are :deadhorse

He's not going anywhere this year or the next. In fact, unless he just really screws the pooch, I'd say the earliest is when its time for his next contract extension.
 
Shishkabob said:
I am not saying any of the points they scored don't count. All points count to me Idc where they come from our defense could out score our offense every game for all I care as long as we out score the other team by the time the clock hits 0.

I'm just saying when making a statement like "the offense has scored almost 30 points in 3 of their last 4 games" you can't use an average. If so I can say look at our 3 game stretch between the jags and broncos game, the offense scored almost 30 points in those games. sure the average of 27 is almost 30, but the actual scores of 20, 42, and 19 show that 2 are not almost 30 while 1 is well above it.

same in this scenario. 1 game over 30(34), 1 game almost 30(29), and 2 not close to 30 (21,22)
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This may be semantical at this point. I said in #2309 that they averaged 28.3 points in 3 of their last 4 games, which is nearly 30 points per game. Not sure my intent was to show that each of the three games they nearly scored 30 points as much as it was to show TheKdog that the defense contributed only 7 points in those three wins.
 
sandman said:
I was just replying to your statement that taking away the defensive TD's, the Texans didn't nearly score 30 points a game in three of their last 4 games.

Titans - scored 34 points, no defensive TDs

Browns - scored 29 points, one defensive TD

Jets - scored 29 points, no defensive TD's

This is 3 of their last 4 games. This is 28.3 points per game by the offense. Context and math are your issues, not mine.

Your assertion was wrong, but you continue to double down with arguments that any scoring drive by the offense because of a defensive turnover does't count. And that somehow FG's are not real points. You are literally making up metrics to fit your narrative.

In your world, the only scores that the offense can take credit for are touchdown drives that start with a kickoff. Which outside of once per game, indicates the defense didn't do their job and let the other team score.
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Browns was 22 points without the defensive td. So that's 2 out of 4 are "close to 30" if you count the field goal with the -1 yard drive by the offense.
 
steelbtexan said:
Fair enough.

IMHO, adding a couple of OL and a WR/Blocking TE and another RB would help more. Atleast we could see what BOB could do with weapons. Right now the playmakers on this offense are Nuk, then you have DT/Carter/Blue. How many of those guys other than Nuk do defenses have to truly worry about? I mean Carter/DT have been a part of the team for less than a month and despite all of this they still put up 29 pts last week. I truly wonder what your expectations are from this offense and nowhere in this post did I mention that the OL still sucks.
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I didn't have high expectations for the offense. I expected the exact same thing we saw from O'Brien the previous 4 years, which is an offense ranked under 20th.

Now maybe it was Rick going rogue and getting O'Brien crappy players. But I don't buy that story. I think next year we'll see the same thing: a "revamped" offense, a bad OL, a couple of new gadget players, running up the middle, and clock management problems.
 
sandman said:
This may be semantical at this point. I said in #2309 that they averaged 28.3 points in 3 of their last 4 games, which is nearly 30 points per game. Not sure my intent was to show that each of the three games they nearly scored 30 points as much as it was to show TheKdog that the defense contributed only 7 points in those three wins.
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Fair enough, I was looking at it as per game rather than average. So we are both correct
 
TheKDog said:
I didn't have high expectations for the offense. I expected the exact same thing we saw from O'Brien the previous 4 years, which is an offense ranked under 20th.

Now maybe it was Rick going rogue and getting O'Brien crappy players. But I don't buy that story. I think next year we'll see the same thing: a "revamped" offense, a bad OL, a couple of new gadget players, running up the middle, and clock management problems.
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If only Kubiak so stubborn because RS extended Schaub over his desires. And McNair wasn't so arrogant Could Have signed Manning and outdid what the Bronco's did
 
Mr teX said:
Welcome to reality. The odds are stacked against every team as there's a 1-31 chance that any of them win a SB in any given year. As it is, the rational you continue to use is terrible.

Of the list of the last 25 SB winners, 14 (56%) of them had both top 10 ranked offenses and defenses. Ok, great that’s what you want......but that’s what every team wants. It however is not a necessity as those remaining 11 SB winners (44%) were either:

a top 10 ranked offense with a below average ranked defense
a top 10 ranked defense with a below average ranked offense
or were thoroughly ranked mediocre on both sides of the ball.

So this notion that you continue to run with that a top 10 offense and defense is a requirement....or somehow increases the odds of winning a SB....or that it factors all that much in winning a SB is thoroughly ridiculous.

You also dismiss this teams' ability to put together clutch offense when they've needed to......like its not part of the championship formula. The Pats & TB started a dynasty & have dominated the last 20 years relying a great deal on clutch offensive performances when they had to have it. Eli & Joe Flacco have 3 SB rings between the two of them for being clutch at the right time. Nick Foles won SB MVP last year for being clutch when the team needed him most. Seem to me being clutch at the right time matters more than the rankings criteria you continue to use.

You're trying entirely too hard to not give BoB credit & truthfully, its just not that serious b/c everyone here acknowledges that the offense needs to get better.
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Looking at past Super Bowl winners by DVOA (the year being when the season began):

2017: Eagles 8th in offense, 5th in defense, 16th in special teams
2016: Patriots 2nd in offense, 16th in defense, 8th in special teams
2015: Broncos 25th in offense, 1st in defense, 14th in special teams (just need a great coach amirite?)
2014: Patriots 6th in offense, 12th in defense, 5th in special teams
2013: Seahawks 7th in offense, 1st in defense, 5th in special teams
2012: Ravens 13th in offense, 19th in defense, 1st in special teams (the year Jacoby fumbled)
2011: Giants 7th in offense, 19th in defense, 15th in special teams
2010: Packers 7th in offense, 2nd in defense, 26th in special teams
2009: Saints 2nd in offense, 17th in defense, 28th in special teams
2008: Steelers 21st in offense, 1st in defense, 13th in special teams
2007: Giants 18th in offense, 13th in defense, 20th in special teams
2006: Colts 1st in offense, 25th in defense, 25th in special teams
2005: Steelers 8th in offense, 3rd in defense, 10th in special teams
2004: Patriots 3rd in offense, 7th in defense, 16th in special teams
2003: Patriots 14th in offense, 2nd in defense, 16th in special teams
2002: Bucs 20th in offense, 1st in defense, 9th in special teams
2001: Patriots 11th in offense, 13th in defense, 6th in special teams
2000: Ravens 22nd in offense, 2nd in defense, 3rd in special teams

So going back to 2000, we have 4 examples of an offense not in the top 20 winning the Super Bowl. In all those years, the championship team had either the 1st or 2nd ranked defense (Texans are currently ranked 7th in defense). There was also the Giants year where they won with the 18th ranked offense.

There was one year where a team won with an defense not in top 20, though two additional years with a 19th ranked defense.
 
bigmck said:
Oh Yes....Smith will be taking Credit and quite a few here will be giving him Credit and then there are those who will say they "Lucked Into It". It is really bad when some Texan Fans won't even give the team Credit for Winning. If you have stood with the Team this year, then you know how hard they have fought and the Wins are "Partly Yours Also".
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So you're saying Ricky didn't do diddly?

It's ok for some of us not to give our team credit, but not for others? Is that what you're saying?
 
tedr said:
during the 11 years Rick was GM, the Texans record was 86-90. They won four division titles, three playoff games and never made it to an AFC Championship game.
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Texas Jake said:
I wanted him to succeed when he was here, but I felt it was time for him to go when he left
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I heard that good times are ahead since we finally got someone who can identify talent that suits BO'b system.

That would be great & I hope that is the case. Just haven't seen the evidence.

The thing that gets me, I remember 4/5 years ago being told good times were ahead because BO'b & Rick were on the same page. That they would work well together.

That didn't happen.

Would have been nice if we had someone who could coach the talent we did get over the last 4 years. James Casey, Ben Jones, Brandon Brooks, Garrett Graham... I mean we drafted the best blocking TE in the draft one year (Fiedo) but he turned into a turnstile here.

We try to run Blue as a speed back & Lamar Miller as a power back. We put Jeff Allen at RG.

Don't get me wrong. I know Rick made some mistakes. But he's not the only one.

I think our coach reporting to the owner & our GM reporting to the owner hurts us.

Kubiak didn't earn the right to be running the show. McNair should have brought in an experienced GM, or at the very least kept Casserly around another year or two.

Now, we've got the same situation. A HC who shouldn't have absolute power, a young GM who shouldn't have absolute power, & an owner who shouldn't have absolute power.

It's possible that BO'b, Gaine, & Cal can figure it out. I'm hoping they do.
 
https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/20/british-lead-texans-bill-obrien-key-postseason/

The fact of the matter is simple, O’Brien’s play-calling is an issue. He sticks far too often with the “hot hand” making defensive planning that bit easier for opponents, he is uninventive and predictable in the passing game, and over the past few years he has failed to construct an offensive line that is capable of defending against a Pop Warner defense let alone one of this level.

Yet, the Texans continue to win.
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TheKDog said:
Looking at past Super Bowl winners by DVOA (the year being when the season began):

2017: Eagles 8th in offense, 5th in defense, 16th in special teams
2016: Patriots 2nd in offense, 16th in defense, 8th in special teams
2015: Broncos 25th in offense, 1st in defense, 14th in special teams (just need a great coach amirite?)
2014: Patriots 6th in offense, 12th in defense, 5th in special teams
2013: Seahawks 7th in offense, 1st in defense, 5th in special teams
2012: Ravens 13th in offense, 19th in defense, 1st in special teams (the year Jacoby fumbled)
2011: Giants 7th in offense, 19th in defense, 15th in special teams
2010: Packers 7th in offense, 2nd in defense, 26th in special teams
2009: Saints 2nd in offense, 17th in defense, 28th in special teams
2008: Steelers 21st in offense, 1st in defense, 13th in special teams
2007: Giants 18th in offense, 13th in defense, 20th in special teams
2006: Colts 1st in offense, 25th in defense, 25th in special teams
2005: Steelers 8th in offense, 3rd in defense, 10th in special teams
2004: Patriots 3rd in offense, 7th in defense, 16th in special teams
2003: Patriots 14th in offense, 2nd in defense, 16th in special teams
2002: Bucs 20th in offense, 1st in defense, 9th in special teams
2001: Patriots 11th in offense, 13th in defense, 6th in special teams
2000: Ravens 22nd in offense, 2nd in defense, 3rd in special teams

So going back to 2000, we have 4 examples of an offense not in the top 20 winning the Super Bowl. In all those years, the championship team had either the 1st or 2nd ranked defense (Texans are currently ranked 7th in defense). There was also the Giants year where they won with the 18th ranked offense.

There was one year where a team won with an defense not in top 20, though two additional years with a 19th ranked defense.
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Like I said...youre tryin too hard....and once again you’re moving the goal posts...now it’s “offense’s not in the top 20..” before it was “top 10 offenses”....even by your metric, there are still 8 out of the 18 winners of your listed teams who didn’t have top 10 offenses and still went on to win it... still basically a 50/50 split.
 
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Mr teX said:
Nothing opinion piece. Literally every fan base says all the exact same things about their teams’ respective head coach.
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Relax buddy, relax. If you read the piece its mainly complimentary. Im just emphasising what I thought everyone had already agreed to by now. Something that can be improved for next year and beyond.
 
TheKDog said:
I didn't have high expectations for the offense. I expected the exact same thing we saw from O'Brien the previous 4 years, which is an offense ranked under 20th.

Now maybe it was Rick going rogue and getting O'Brien crappy players. But I don't buy that story. I think next year we'll see the same thing: a "revamped" offense, a bad OL, a couple of new gadget players, running up the middle, and clock management problems.
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And this is where we are disagreeing.
 
Man if this is accurate: :brickwall:

Prior to the 2015 NFL Draft, long-time Texans scout Ed Lambert raved to me about David Johnson and how he wanted the Texans to land him. Bill O’Brien, however, demanded the Texans take Jaelen Strong instead of Johnson in the third round of the 2015 NFL Draft. As a result of O’Brien’s mistake, the Texans still need a long-term running back. The red-zone offense has struggled because of the backfield issues, including Lamar Miller slowing down, and O’Brien possibly on his way to running D’Onta Foreman out of town. Imagine if O’Brien had listened to his scouts and Houston had David Johnson to go with Deshaun Watson, DeAndre Hopkins and Will Fuller.
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http://walterfootball.com/draft2019charlie_1.php
 
Texas Jake said:
I wonder how accurate his information is. Reading through his mock draft, it is evident he is not an O'Brien fan at all and likes to take the opportunity in his analysis to take jabs at him.
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Holy hell this is kind of damning:


Prior to the 2015 NFL Draft, long-time Texans scout Ed Lambert raved to me about David Johnson and how he wanted the Texans to land him. Bill O'Brien, however, demanded the Texans take Jaelen Strong instead of Johnson in the third round of the 2015 NFL Draft. As a result of O'Brien's mistake, the Texans still need a long-term running back. The red-zone offense has struggled because of the backfield issues, including Lamar Miller slowing down, and O'Brien possibly on his way to running D'Onta Foreman out of town. Imagine if O'Brien had listened to his scouts and Houston had David Johnson to go with Deshaun Watson, DeAndre Hopkins and Will Fuller.
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.

So much for Tricky Ricky doing his thing .. Seems like Mr OBrien should shoulder alot of the personnel woes during his regime.

Is OBrien really this much of control freak? He 'couldnt work with Smith' so they fired him and brought in another yes man in Gaine? I dont like one person in charge of all football operations, especially when that one person is constantly getting a pass.

HOw will this be spun? "Oh well that scout was the worst scout ever, hes not even with the team, and you know what scouting is over rated, we didnt really need DAvid Johnson that bad any way and that scout is just making things up fake news grr grr grr"

SMH
 
Texas Jake said:
I wonder how accurate his information is. Reading through his mock draft, it is evident he is not an O'Brien fan at all and likes to take the opportunity in his analysis to take jabs at him.
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they give an S to the Texans in his mock draft because they think HB was overpaid and there's also talks of BOB hating D'onta because of his attitude and work ethic
 
David Johnson better than Jaelon for sure, but a wash with Lamar Miller if you stack up statistically rushing. DJ is a better receiver. He missed a whole season as well, so let's see how durable he stays.

660 carries for 2686 yards and a 4.1 per average (David)
1337 carries for 5808 yards and a 4.3 average (Lamar)

Never know what people were thinking and lets admit our receiving corps needed some talent. Maybe BOB had a plan?? DJ would have been a nice add though
 
Uncle Rico said:
Holy hell this is kind of damning:


.

So much for Tricky Ricky doing his thing .. Seems like Mr OBrien should shoulder alot of the personnel woes during his regime.

Is OBrien really this much of control freak? He 'couldnt work with Smith' so they fired him and brought in another yes man in Gaine? I dont like one person in charge of all football operations, especially when that one person is constantly getting a pass.

HOw will this be spun? "Oh well that scout was the worst scout ever, hes not even with the team, and you know what scouting is over rated, we didnt really need DAvid Johnson that bad any way and that scout is just making things up fake news grr grr grr"

SMH
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Wouldnt doubt that Walters report of the incident has a grain of truth, but it feels like it was either told to Walt/Charlie (or reported by Walt/Charlie) with a bit of a slant. No doubt BOB has contributed heavily to some boneheaded draft decisions...does anyone doubt that? This is probably not the only one.

However, we are picking 29 in his mock, which means that we make it to the AFCCG.
 
frethack said:
Wouldnt doubt that Walters report of the incident has a grain of truth, but it feels like it was either told to Walt/Charlie (or reported by Walt/Charlie) with a bit of a slant. No doubt BOB has contributed heavily to some boneheaded draft decisions...does anyone doubt that? This is probably not the only one.

However, we are picking 29 in his mock, which means that we make it to the AFCCG.
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Yes a lot of people on here doubt it that. They were very sure it was all on him.
 
Texansballer74 said:
That was not on him. Both coaches hand picked their QBs. The owner (RIP) had his hand in the cookie jar as well.
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I agree that many ppl contributed to our lack of roster depth, but the responsibility for the roster stops with the GM.

My team helps me make decisions and provides guidance but it's up to me to filter out the BS...or my job is on the line.

Our depth has improved in a single offseason. I think thats very telling.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
JB said:
Which QB would you have suggested?
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I don't have a specific name, but the picking of A, Any QB is almost non-existent from their Drafts. Through 2016, the year before Watson, they have drafted a TOTAL of 6 QB's and Carr is the only one above Round 4. That just seems wrong. Like I said, I don't have a name but other teams were able to come up with QB's from the draft and the Texans don't even give a QB a shot before the Fourth Round. It just seems wrong.
 
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