NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
If this is true then that would make him a one-trick pony. Gotta have a playbook where one can play football year round no matter who goes down.
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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!
- Thread starter Carr Bombed
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Welcome to reality. The odds are stacked against every team as there's a 1-31 chance that any of them win a SB in any given year. As it is, the rational you continue to use is terrible.
Of the list of the last 25 SB winners, 14 (56%) of them had both top 10 ranked offenses and defenses. Ok, great that’s what you want......but that’s what every team wants. It however is not a necessity as those remaining 11 SB winners (44%) were either:
a top 10 ranked offense with a below average ranked defense
a top 10 ranked defense with a below average ranked offense
or were thoroughly ranked mediocre on both sides of the ball.
So this notion that you continue to run with that a top 10 offense and defense is a requirement....or somehow increases the odds of winning a SB....or that it factors all that much in winning a SB is thoroughly ridiculous.
You also dismiss this teams' ability to put together clutch offense when they've needed to......like its not part of the championship formula. The Pats & TB started a dynasty & have dominated the last 20 years relying a great deal on clutch offensive performances when they had to have it. Eli & Joe Flacco have 3 SB rings between the two of them for being clutch at the right time. Nick Foles won SB MVP last year for being clutch when the team needed him most. Seem to me being clutch at the right time matters more than the rankings criteria you continue to use.
You're trying entirely too hard to not give BoB credit & truthfully, its just not that serious b/c everyone here acknowledges that the offense needs to get better.
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Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Are you saying the Texans are having a winning season because of what Gaine has done thus far? Or its all on OBrien? Rick Smith is responsible for drafting the single most important player in team history IMO and without that trade up to acquire Watson where would this team be? OBrien surely would have been fired if Watson doesnt save last year and give the team a direction and it would be a state of turmoil around these parts .. AGAIN.
Rick Smith isnt as bad as you make him out to be .. you're just as far out on that perch as some of the OBrien conspirators have been.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Rick Smith activists are about as hilarious as Cowboys fans and their endless Shallow Hal symptoms. Lol!
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Idiots still arguing about this. Lol!
Pretty sure OB isn't going anywhere after this season, so there really is no reason to still be deabting as to whether or not if he'll be fired or not. Ship has sailed.
Pretty sure OB isn't going anywhere after this season, so there really is no reason to still be deabting as to whether or not if he'll be fired or not. Ship has sailed.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Yeah think this has more turned into a We will never be true contenders with O'Brien vs. Without Rick Smith BoB will lead us to the Promised Land. At this point I don't think anyone actually believes he will be fired for at least two seasons, its more about how much damage/good people think he will do.
FYI if we win the SB in the next two years, I'm taking all the credit. F'k Rick Smith.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He could hurt them in the playoffs, but he won't be fired. Not even close, so I just don't see the point anymore. He's going nowhere for now
Texansballer74
The Marine
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Defensive TD. Singular. The Texans offense averaged 28.3 points in 3 of the last 4 games. Yes, that is nearly 30 points.
bigmck
Rookie
Oh Yes....Smith will be taking Credit and quite a few here will be giving him Credit and then there are those who will say they "Lucked Into It". It is really bad when some Texan Fans won't even give the team Credit for Winning. If you have stood with the Team this year, then you know how hard they have fought and the Wins are "Partly Yours Also".
I'm saying after 12years of the Texans prg basically sh!tting their pants the organization is in good hands with football people in charge instead of a politician.
Is that clear enough for tou?
I'm saying after 12years of the Texans prg basically sh!tting their pants the organization is in good hands with football people in charge instead of a politician.
Is that clear enough for tou?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
not really. still sensationalist propaganda, but whatever makes you feel good. Do you. I've gone year by year and showed how his first round draft picks stack up against all other GMs in terms of all rookie selections and many other talking points that would contradict your stance, but again whatever brings a smile to your face. I think discounting every year before OBrien is laughable.
Do you have any links to show your statistics? I'm not disagreeing with them per se, but it's normal to provide one. I, for one, refuse to give OB a ton of credit for the Ws because so many of them relied on the other team missing last second FGs, etc. I also blame OB for the Texans coming out flat to start games and/or failing to make the proper half time adjustments. I choose to look past the final score and recall how the game actually played out. I also re-watch every game to see what was happening without the emotion of the moment.
It's my opinion that a few on here are trying too hard to give OB all of the credit and not seeing the warts for what they are and have been for 5 years now. It's also my opinion that OB may very well be a good HC, he's just a lousy OC.
Smith's 1st round picks have never been considered an issue. It's the 2-5 round picks, where you expect to find some starters, depth and ST's that was an issue with Smith.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
You get frustrated when no one gives BOB any credit for winning 10 games so far this season. I get frustrated when you don't give Rick any credit.
I was ok with the team moving on from Rick, and so far, I like the Gaine hire. But this team is still mostly assembled by Rick, especially when looking at our core players. Yes, Gaine helped solidify some of our weak spots, but let's not pretend there was some HUGE turnaround in the team once the GM changed. BOB+Rick, we were a 9-10 win team. BOB+Gaine+Watson, we should be an 11-12 win team. That's a two win difference, with Watson being the biggest factor in that equation.
The honest truth is if the Texans win a SB w/ in the next 2 years, no one person should deserve credit. Alot of people should share the credit. McNair(s), BOB, Rick, Gaine, Crennel, Players ALL deserve credit.
I would say we have evidence after 12 years Ricky wasn't the man for the job. It remains to be seen if Gaine is the man for the job, but I would say finishing with 11 wins is off to a good start. Maybe even 12. If Watson stays healthy, with Gaine finding the talent good times are ahead.
I want to see how creative BOB can be with a healthy Watson and a league avg ol. Good times Itell you.
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This is an 8-8 (at best) team that's had some incredibly lucky breaks. There are major holes in the OL and secondary along with more moderate needs at OLB, RB and WR. Gaine will show us what he's got this year. Picking in the late to early thirties with the holes this team needs to fill is a major challenge. Some teams will be reaching for 2nd-3rd round graded players then out of desperation.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
When you say the Texans are an 8-8 team... and lets assume the Texans win the remaining two games to finish 12-4. Does that mean there are 4 games where we lost to a better team, but just got lucky? Who are these better teams in your opinion?
Texas Jake
Rookie
Man, some people really hate O'Brien. What ever happened to the old adage you are what your record says you are. This team has won 10 games. You may not like how they won them, but they still won them. The four games they lost, they were close games that could have gone the other way. I have a hard time understanding how we are the #2 seed in the AFC right now and some people seem so bitter about it. This team is a few pieces away from becoming a truly dominant team and finally appears to be headed the right direction and all some people can do is whine about it because now its going to be hard now to get rid of the HC. This is really getting old. Why can't we just enjoy the run they are on while it lasts.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
@steelbtexan It's funny cuz Bob gets the royal homer treatment and excuse-a-thon but Rick Smith was the reason this franchise suffered? Lol and Bobs struggles are because of Rick?
Bob can't get criticized for vulgar managerial problems, but Rick Smith was supposed to hit in every round?
Yep that Rick Smith man he just did whatever he wanted, never checked with coaches or owner.
Funnier still that when I broke down Allll the stats on this matter, the %s compared to other GMs how actually he was right along with all his other contemporaries in terms of success and it was Rick Smith that was holding this franchise back?
It wasn't the implosion of Schaub? the QB carousel of Bill Obrien? it was Rick Smith .. lol I really chuckled.
I'm not going to do you stubborn guys the favor of looking through my history so you can see how subjectively wrong y'all are. It was conveniently ignored the first time. This is nothing more than a personal preference attack not based in reality. You are entitled to your opinion though.
I like Gaine too but some guys get carried away apart from Reid who else was an impact player from last years draft?.. and I'll beat y'all to the punch:
"Gaine didn't have no picks cuz Smith traded them all free" Deshaun Watson says hi.
"Oh yeah, well he had to cuz of the dumb Osweiler signing" Bill OBrien wanted Osweiler .. it was actually a miracle he found someone to take him since teams were not exactly libed up hoping to take less than 1st and 2nds for him cuz you know they are nice dudes and stuff.
"Oh yeah well, well he sucks at drafting .. 12 yrs .. grrr grrr" .. yes because Charly Casserly left this team in such good shape it was easy to stock talent and immediately start winning games.
He pulled the plug on Carr and brought in Schaub and for a while that worked as well as it could.
It's just silly to blame this franchises issues on one guy .. 12 years .. so I'll assume the Casserly years get a pass because youll say expansion teams aren't expected to compete?
Bill gets the pass because poor guy had so much trash talent thrust on him and it was a complete rebuild?
SMH LOL
Bob can't get criticized for vulgar managerial problems, but Rick Smith was supposed to hit in every round?
Yep that Rick Smith man he just did whatever he wanted, never checked with coaches or owner.
Funnier still that when I broke down Allll the stats on this matter, the %s compared to other GMs how actually he was right along with all his other contemporaries in terms of success and it was Rick Smith that was holding this franchise back?
It wasn't the implosion of Schaub? the QB carousel of Bill Obrien? it was Rick Smith .. lol I really chuckled.
I'm not going to do you stubborn guys the favor of looking through my history so you can see how subjectively wrong y'all are. It was conveniently ignored the first time. This is nothing more than a personal preference attack not based in reality. You are entitled to your opinion though.
I like Gaine too but some guys get carried away apart from Reid who else was an impact player from last years draft?.. and I'll beat y'all to the punch:
"Gaine didn't have no picks cuz Smith traded them all free" Deshaun Watson says hi.
"Oh yeah, well he had to cuz of the dumb Osweiler signing" Bill OBrien wanted Osweiler .. it was actually a miracle he found someone to take him since teams were not exactly libed up hoping to take less than 1st and 2nds for him cuz you know they are nice dudes and stuff.
"Oh yeah well, well he sucks at drafting .. 12 yrs .. grrr grrr" .. yes because Charly Casserly left this team in such good shape it was easy to stock talent and immediately start winning games.
He pulled the plug on Carr and brought in Schaub and for a while that worked as well as it could.
It's just silly to blame this franchises issues on one guy .. 12 years .. so I'll assume the Casserly years get a pass because youll say expansion teams aren't expected to compete?
Bill gets the pass because poor guy had so much trash talent thrust on him and it was a complete rebuild?
SMH LOL
For me the bottom line is this: during the 11 years Rick was GM, the Texans record was 86-90. They won four division titles, three playoff games and never made it to an AFC Championship game. He had 11 years to get there, and never did it. Not a horrible record, but it was definitely time for him to go.
Texas Jake
Rookie
Rick had some good picks and from what we know he was probably the one pushing hardest for Watson. Gaine was handcuffed by not having a first or second round pick, but I ain't complaining. The sacrifice was well worth it to get Watson. They whiffed on Oz, at least they tried to fix the QB problem and weren't afraid to swing for the fences. Sometimes when you swing for the fences you strike out, though. I wasn't a Rick hater. I wanted him to succeed when he was here, but I felt it was time for him to go when he left. He did add some very good players. His hit rate in the mid rounds was his weakness and He and O'Brien had philosophical differences when it came to building the team.
O'Brien isn't perfect. I think he is a good HC. I think he is learning (I hope he is learning) He has his strengths and his weaknesses. His strengths are the ones I personally value the most in a Head Coach. I do want him to get an OC and I believe next year he will have one—if not, I think that will be a mistake on his part. BTW, I liked Kubiak, too
I am optimistic about Gaine, but the verdict is still out. I liked his first draft, but you don't know the true value of a draft until a couple years down the road. I am hopeful that he can add the needed pieces to complete the work on this team.
Right now, I am just enjoying the season. The team is not stacking up impressive wins, but they are winning and displaying a gritty tenaciousness—the kind that championship teams display. Hopefully that attitude sticks and maybe it will be enough to take them farther this year than any of us expects.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/9r7q6x/the_last_25_super_bowl_champions_and_their/?sort=top
There u go as ranked by points per drive
As for your other points, i mean it doesn't matter how many times you, the fan as an outsider watches the game. Unless BoB hires you to be part of his coaching staff, you're never going to be privy to what the game plan is, what they're seeing from the defense and everything BoB & the coaching staff were trying to do to counter the defense...Unless he or 1 of the players tell you. Finally, go ask the Pats if they look at their 1st championship any differently b/c they were lucky with the tuck rule. Go ask the Giants if they give a damn about Eli and David Tyree pulling off one of the most improbable, crazy plays ever to win their 1st against the Pats. Luck is part of the game. Dumb calls are part of the game.
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As one of those you are probably referring to here, I'll speak for us... we see the warts, just choose not to dwell on them and when we're forced to, we see so many issues (players not doing their job that blaming only OB isn't judicious. It's all 53 and coaches and FO. But so far it's this season we're looking at and it's a success. Yeah lot's of improvement needed and probably won't go far this year, but things are looking up. It's entertainment... enjoy
Exactly!
Every team has holes. All winners get breaks. We see our holes more than we see other teams because we're focused on the Texans. Don't be so doom and gloom. Smile!
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bigmck
Rookie
Just curious how you look at things if Lucky Breaks don't count. == Super Bowl 25, Scott Norwood misses a last second FG to deny the win for the Bills. I guess the Giants are not really the Champs because it was just a Lucky Break Norwood missed.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
My biggest question for the RS faithful.....could he have duplicated what Gaine did with the 2018 NFL Draft knowing his first pick thru last pick being right in his historical zone of failure?
I was never a fan of RS b/c anyone could've got his slew of RD1 picks right. For me, it was what Smith did after RD1 that was really troubling. Hell, he blew an entire draft. I will go back later and find the draft since I'm on my iPad. I'm sure someone will beat me to it.
I still ask myself how it happened that RS survived the Kubiak firing.......that sould've been the day McNair handed out dual pink slips. If Gaine can have a solid RD1 and RD2, then work the same magic he did last season from RD3 on.......the culture of Texans football could finally be changed beyond just a good season.
I don't believe in counting on those lucky breaks. They count because they happened but do you give Bill Parcells the credit for Norwood missing? Of course not.
I don't believe in counting on those lucky breaks. They count because they happened but do you give Bill Parcells the credit for Norwood missing? Of course not.
99% of the time we fans have no real idea if any particular player blew an assignment. We don't know the original play call, protection or coverage. We see the end result. I blame OB for being a poor OC. He seems to have no feel for the flow of the game with the end results we see. Could it be Watson changing the plays? Possibly but I doubt Watson is calling Miller up the middle so often on 1st down.As one of those you are probably referring to here, I'll speak for us... we see the warts, just choose not to dwell on them and when we're forced to, we see so many issues (players not doing their job that blaming only OB isn't judicious. It's all 53 and coaches and FO. But so far it's this season we're looking at and it's a success. Yeah lot's of improvement needed and probably won't go far this year, but things are looking up. It's entertainment... enjoy
Exactly!
Every team has holes. All winners get breaks. We see our holes more than we see other teams because we're focused on the Texans. Don't be so doom and gloom. Smile!
I won't call this season a success until I see how the Texans do against a playoff caliber team. Winning nail biters against cellar dwellers is all fine and good. Getting your a$$ handed to you in the playoffs is a whole different thing.
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the wins but I'm not confusing pure luck with talent and good coaching. I see a team that should be 8-8 looking at getting a bye and possibly HFA. If that's what it takes for Houston to finally get to a SB, so be it. I'll gladly eat crow if that happens.
The games weren't nearly as close as the score at 0-3. I'm not bitter. I just see a flawed team with a poor OC. This team is far from a few pieces from being dominant. The Texans need at least 5 new starters. That's difficult to do in one off season.
Texas Jake
Rookie
Not arguing with you, just curious what position you see as the needed five new starters.
LT, RT, two CBs, OLB, RB, LG, WR pretty much in that order.
Texas Jake
Rookie
I am thinking a OT, OG, CB, WR, RB could be enough to make a substantial improvement to this team.
On the O-line adding a couple good players could elevate play across the board. It is hard to accurately evaluate the potential of what we have because they have to perform as a unit and one weak player will make those next to him look worse than they are. The flip side is a good player elevates the play of those next to him. Two good players could make a major impact to this line.
It would be nice to add two CBs, but adding one shutdown CB would go a long ways toward fixing the problem.
WR we are good if our present players can stay healthy. That is a big if based on past experience. We need to add a speedster who can stay on the field. When we have that, our offense is completely different.
RB - fix the line and you have done a lot to fix the problem. With a line that can win the battle in the trenches, we have enough at RB to get by. That said, we can always use more. I would think we have a decent chance to find a good RB in the mid rounds of the draft. The biggest part of fixing the running game is fixing the O-line, though.
I think if you accomplish the above in the off season, we could become a dominant team and I think it is doable if the FO is on their game.
Somehow they got lucky and won 4 games to teams that were better than them with a hurt QB, yet many on here think BOB has done a lousy job this yr.
Right?
The OC would be able to do a better job with better talent. Lets see what talent is added in the offseason and that will give us a better feel for where the team is headed. I do believe 5 quality players can be added in the offseason with the cap space they should be able to trade for a quality CB and sign one in FA. Then if Gaine's 1st draft is any indication then Gaine should be able to find 2 or 3 upgrades in the draft. This can be done.
No, but you don't blame him either. He did hoist the trophy after all. You give him credit for his team forcing the FG to take the lead
vs. Browns: offense had 1 TD and 5 FG for 22 points. Cunningham had a defensive TD.
vs. Colts: they lost 24-21
vs. Jets: 26 points (not counting the field goal after the Jets turnover on downs and the offense generated no yards).
Not sure if you count 26 points as almost 30.
The titans game (34 points) was the only impressive showing.
So most championship teams did in fact have top 10 units. I'm curious how many won with units outside the top 20.
And good everyone agrees the offense needs to get better.
And in my opinion the way to do that is a new HC and OC. O'Brien isn't giving up OC duties.
Has he been hiding his offense for 5 years?
How come Bekichick or the other super bowl winners never felt the need to do this?
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I was just replying to your statement that taking away the defensive TD's, the Texans didn't nearly score 30 points a game in three of their last 4 games.
Titans - scored 34 points, no defensive TDs
Browns - scored 29 points, one defensive TD
Jets - scored 29 points, no defensive TD's
This is 3 of their last 4 games. This is 28.3 points per game by the offense. Context and math are your issues, not mine.
Your assertion was wrong, but you continue to double down with arguments that any scoring drive by the offense because of a defensive turnover does't count. And that somehow FG's are not real points. You are literally making up metrics to fit your narrative.
In your world, the only scores that the offense can take credit for are touchdown drives that start with a kickoff. Which outside of once per game, indicates the defense didn't do their job and let the other team score.
Fair enough.
IMHO, adding a couple of OL and a WR/Blocking TE and another RB would help more. Atleast we could see what BOB could do with weapons. Right now the playmakers on this offense are Nuk, then you have DT/Carter/Blue. How many of those guys other than Nuk do defenses have to truly worry about? I mean Carter/DT have been a part of the team for less than a month and despite all of this they still put up 29 pts last week. I truly wonder what your expectations are from this offense and nowhere in this post did I mention that the OL still sucks.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
You would think in his world turnovers aren't part of the game. Funny thing is, turnovers are the single most determining factor in playoff games. He should go check out past playoff games and see the record of the teams that turn the ball over the least.
Imagination?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
IMO, BOB has done a good job this season. I give him credit for keeping the team on track, despite the bad start. I continue to give him credit for his amazing record of holding onto halftime leads. I don't see how you can complain about "turtling" when it has like a 98% success rate.
But at the same time, I understand people's frustrations with his offense. I'm not a football expert, but alot of what he does just doesn't make sense to me. With that being said, I don't understand what warrants him to be the OC + HC? Even guys like Payton and Reid, whom have a long track record of building great offenses, still has an OC to help out. What makes BOB so good that he doesn't need one and can take on those responsibilities of two people?
Texas Jake
Rookie
It is a team game. We have weaknesses on both sides of the ball, but the team is playing complimentary football. The defense helps keep the game within reach of the offense's capabilities and the offense works time of possession to keep the defense fresh. It is old school, smash-mouth football, but it still works.
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Porky
Hall of Fame
IMHO, OB has the makings of being a good HC but only if he is willing to shed his OC duties. And he doesn't need a yes man in Ryan who is just a figure head. He needs a real OC who will bring his own unique ideas to play design and play calling. Doesn't mean that OB's not part of the big picture on offense, but he needs someone to really drill down and do the dirty work and figure out how to get the best out of Watson and the offense in general.
As it stands, BOB (for me) is a slightly under average HC, but if he's willing to sacrifice is ego for the good of the team, he's got potential to be much better.
As it stands, BOB (for me) is a slightly under average HC, but if he's willing to sacrifice is ego for the good of the team, he's got potential to be much better.
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