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Injury Thread

Andre Hal has been diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma. He will not be available for this season...... Or possibly any other season depending on the extent of the disease and the damage that the treatment does.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Andre Hal has been diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma. He will not be available for this season...... Or possibly any other season depending on the extent have the disease and the damage that the treatment does.
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Oh..prayers for him and family. Justin Reid a wise choice it seems will definitely start.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The safety question is at least being asked...

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texas-sports-nation/texans/article/How-the-Texans-will-replace-Andre-Hal-12984544.php?utm_campaign=twitter-premium&utm_source=CMS Sharing Button&utm_medium=social
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"Corey Moore has been rehabbing an injury and will be ready for training camp, according to O'Brien."

After suffering a Grade 2 MCL sprain and being placed on IR last Dec 27, he is still rehabbing his knee 5 1/2 months later with expectation to return for TC 7 months later................when a typical Grade 2 MCL is only a 4-6 WEEK rehab??? Gotta be wondering about the extent of the injury and/or if he's undergone an undisclosed surgery.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
"Corey Moore has been rehabbing an injury and will be ready for training camp, according to O'Brien."

After suffering a Grade 2 MCL sprain and being placed on IR last Dec 27, he is still rehabbing his knee 5 1/2 months later with expectation to return for TC 7 months later................when a typical Grade 2 MCL is only a 4-6 WEEK rehab??? Gotta be wondering about the extent of the injury and/or if he's undergone an undisclosed surgery surgery.
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Are you from the Dept. of Redundancy Dept.? :kitten:
 
I have previously presented my non-encouraging views re. D'Onta Foreman's future. I am now posting this updated information which supports my pessimism in order to present a realistic view of what should be expected.

When Demeco sustained his first Achilles rupture, besides my posts in this form, I reviewed the landmark Achilles NFL study originally published in 2008. My review was published in the Chronicle in 2011. A recent NFL 2017 study........Epidemiology and Outcomes of Achilles Tendon Ruptures in the National Football League published in Foot and Ankle Orthopedics Journal has essentially given us a more contemporary view of the subject. This included 78 Achilles tendon ruptures occurring during the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. 58% ruptures occurred during the preseason. 26% never returned to play in the NFL. Those who did return required an average of ~ 9 months to recover. There was an across the board (all positions) net decrease in power ratings by 22% and net overall value by 23% over 3 years following player return after Achilles tendon rupture. Across all positions, running backs saw the biggest decrease in production with a 78% decrease over 3 years post-injury in both power ratings and approximate value.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I have previously presented my non-encouraging views re. D'Onta Foreman's future. I am now posting this updated information which supports my pessimism in order to present a realistic view of what should be expected.

When Demeco sustained his first Achilles rupture, besides my posts in this form, I reviewed the landmark Achilles NFL study originally published in 2008. My review was published in the Chronicle in 2011. A recent NFL 2017 study........Epidemiology and Outcomes of Achilles Tendon Ruptures in the National Football League published in Foot and Ankle Orthopedics Journal has essentially given us a more contemporary view of the subject. This included 78 Achilles tendon ruptures occurring during the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. 58% ruptures occurred during the preseason. 26% never returned to play in the NFL. Those who did return required an average of ~ 9 months to recover. There was an across the board (all positions) net decrease in power ratings by 22% and net overall value by 23% over 3 years following player return after Achilles tendon rupture. Across all positions, running backs saw the biggest decrease in production with a 78% decrease over 3 years post-injury in both power ratings and approximate value.
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CnnnD, could this also be related to the fact that most of these players are rushed back to the field? Are there any studies as to what may happen if a player was given 12-18 months to rehab that type of injury? I fully understand that most teams would never consider allowing a paid athlete that much time but I'm curious just the same.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
CnnnD, could this also be related to the fact that most of these players are rushed back to the field? Are there any studies as to what may happen if a player was given 12-18 months to rehab that type of injury? I fully understand that most teams would never consider allowing a paid athlete that much time but I'm curious just the same.
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Wound healing wise and rehab wise, allowing significantly more time than what has been determined by examination of tissues in many studies and testing of ultimate strength would not be expected to have any advantage to the ability to return or the level of performance.
 
The reason we haven't heard anything about Rankin in OTAs is that he has undergone surgery on his foot for an injury he sustained in rookie minicamp.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
CnnnD, could this also be related to the fact that most of these players are rushed back to the field? Are there any studies as to what may happen if a player was given 12-18 months to rehab that type of injury? I fully understand that most teams would never consider allowing a paid athlete that much time but I'm curious just the same.
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When I was in the Coast Guard one of my stations was Traverse City Michigan air station (absolutely BEAUTIFUL PLACE, if any of you have a chance to go during the summer months go.) While I was there I was stationed with ASTs (rescue swimmers) and apprentice ASTs..

Their training is flat out ridiculous (those dudes are a different breed and in crazy ass shape). They would jog miles to a YMCA pool, swim for hours, and then jog all the way back to base.

During my time there two guys sustained a Achilles tendon rupture... They had the surgery to repair, rehabed their asses off, but they were never quite able to make it back and chose another job rate.

I'm saying this to tell you, I don't think Donta is ever going to be the player that he would've been. That's just a devastating injury for a elite athlete and the odds are not in his favor. I'm pulling for him though, just wish it would've never happened. That injury has passed knee tears on my "Oh NOO!" meter.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The reason we haven't heard anything about Rankin in OTAs is that he has undergone surgery on his foot for an injury he sustained in rookie minicamp.
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Can we get any more freaking vague than "suffered a foot injury"? WHAT TYPE OF FOOT INJURY BILL? I mean there's only 26 bones, 33 joints, and over a hundred muscles, ligaments, and tendons in the foot BILL!
 
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Carr Bombed said:
When I was in the Coast Guard one of my stations was Traverse City Michigan air station (absolutely BEAUTIFUL PLACE, if any of you have a chance to go during the summer months go.) While I was there I was stationed with ASTs (rescue swimmers) and apprentice ASTs..

Their training is flat out ridiculous (those dudes are a different breed and in crazy ass shape). They would jog miles to a YMCA pool, swim for hours, and then jog all the way back to base.

During my time there two guys sustained a Achilles tendon rupture... They had the surgery to repair, rehabed their asses off, but they were never quite able to make it back and chose another job rate.

I'm saying this to tell you, I don't think Donta is ever going to be the player that he would've been. That's just a devastating injury for a elite athlete and the odds are not in his favor. I'm pulling for him though, just wish it would've never happened. That injury has passed knee tears on my "Oh NOO!" meter.
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RB should've been a bigger need in this past draft since the position was so deep. Another veteran in camp would be nice until there is some real determination if Foreman is going to make it back. If it doesn't look good, RB should be a priority next season.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
RB should've been a bigger need in this past draft since the position was so deep. Another veteran in camp would be nice until there is some real determination if Foreman is going to make it back. If it doesn't look good, RB should be a priority next season.
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It shouldn't have looked good from Nov 19, 2017 as soon as it occurred. Foreman should have been written off as a RB that could be depended on for any significant production...........and a total surprise in the highly unlikely event that this were not the case.
 
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Tyler Ervin has been medically cleared. He is expected to be present at TC. Keep in mind that of all common football injuries, the patellar tendon rupture has long offered the lowest rate of return to play (50%).
 
Didn't Crabtree, Demaryius Thomas and Brent Grimes all tear their Achilles only to bounce back after a full season and play well?
 
amazing80 said:
True, but all 3 were skill positions with loads of athleticism. I really think we need to add a RB and wish we would have drafted one, but I am not going to discount our boy quite yet.
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In the old study (2009) RBs and WRs shared essentially similar post injury numbers. In the follow up new study (2017), RBs even when compared to WRs were specifically found to have the worst return and performance rate by far.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
In the old study (2009) RBs and WRs shared essentially similar post injury numbers. In the follow up new study (2017), RBs even when compared to WRs were specifically found to have the worst return and performance rate by far.
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Probably because the way the rules are now defenses can't be as physical on receivers as they were a decade ago.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Probably because the way the rules are now defenses can't be as physical on receivers as they were a decade ago.
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I'm not sure that explains the divergence. Achilles rupture is typically a noncontact injury. It is a wear and tear type of injury where the tendency is to gradually break down with the classic prodome decrease in production and symptoms prior to the actual rupture. One factor that both the RB and WR shares is the explosive pushoffs placing a great stress on the tendon. However, the WR seldom meets significant resistance upon pushoff. The RB not only typically meets the same initial stress, but also meets extreme stress as he many times faces the resistance of multiple 300+ pound linemen (and anyone else who wants to join in). As the 2 studies reported injuries to players a decade apart, in that period of time the Dline players have gotten larger and stronger......supplying even greater repeated resistance and stress on the Achilles...........something that, independent of any rules changes, would not significantly affect the evolution of the injury for the WR.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
I'm not sure that explains the divergence. Achilles rupture is typically a noncontact injury. It is a wear and tear type of injury where the tend gradually break down with the classic prodome decrease in production and symptoms prior to the actual rupture. One factor that both the RB and WR shares is the explosive pushoffs placing a great stress on the tendon. However, the WR seldom meets significant resistance upon pushoff. The RB not only typically meets the same initial stress, but also meets extreme stress as he many times faces the resistance of multiple 300+ pound linemen (and anyone else that wants to join in). As the 2 studies reported injuries to players a decade apart, in that period of time the Dline players have gotten larger and stronger......supplying even greater repeated resistance and stress on the Achilles...........something that, independent of any rules changes, would not significantly affect the evolution of the injury for the WR.
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I wasn't talking about the cause of the injury, but the better chance WRs have post injury. WRs today deal with a lot less "trash" than they dealt with a decade ago.

That and like you said.. Front seven players are getting bigger while WRs are running freely through secondary's.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Tyler Ervin has been medically cleared. He is expected to be present at TC. Keep in mind that of all common football injuries, the patellar tendon rupture has long offered the lowest rate of return to play (50%).
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CND- Why is that? I have never understood why that injury, in particular, is so difficult to return from since it essentially lies on the outside of the joint. So, once repaired, it should have blood supply and doesn't have complications like cartilage loss, etc... as part of the injury.
 
Carr Bombed said:
I wasn't talking about the cause of the injury, but the better chance WRs have post injury. WRs today deal with a lot less "trash" than they dealt with a decade ago.

That and like you said.. Front seven players are getting bigger while WRs are running freely through secondary's.
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I see what you are trying to say, but the rule changes would still have little effect over the years on the stresses placed on WRs.........certainly not enough to account for any significant lessening of stress/rupture of the Achillles.......while the stresses/ruptures have continued to significantly climb with RBs.............thus the easily explainable divergence of rates between the two positions.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I see what you are trying to say, but the rule changes would still have little effect over the years on the stresses placed on WRs.........certainly not enough to account for any significant lessening of stress/rupture of the Achillles.......while the stresses/ruptures have continued to significantly climb with RBs.............thus the easily explainable divergence of rates between the two positions.
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Well you're the expert here sir, so I concede to your professional opinion.
 
dalemurphy said:
CND- Why is that? I have never understood why that injury, in particular, is so difficult to return from since it essentially lies on the outside of the joint. So, once repaired, it should have blood supply and doesn't have complications like cartilage loss, etc... as part of the injury.
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The patellar tendon is actually NOT a TENDON (it does not connect muscle to bone)............it is misnamed as such and is truly a LIGAMENT (it connects bone to bone, the bottom of the patellar [knee cap] to the tibia)......and does not have good blood supply.

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It is difficult to determine the tension at the time of repair..........too tight>>>>decreased range of motion (of flexion)............too loose>>>>>decreased range of motion (of extension). Besides this it is all too common that the rupture side never regains adequate strength compared to the uninjured side. This is not even including stretching of the repair over time, sutures or anchors tearing through the "tendon", abnormal scar tissue build up affecting knee motion, and actual rupture of the repair.
 
JB said:
Until he actually has to do it? Or will he be a first?
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Most athletes with severe injuries are not usually very realistic about their length of time to rehab and/or the extent to which they can regain their preinjury performance level.

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Question - based on Watt’s past injuries - are the physical demands on his body greater playing DE or if he (assuming he could) could make the switch to TE?
 
TexansBull said:
Question - based on Watt’s past injuries - are the physical demands on his body greater playing DE or if he (assuming he could) could make the switch to TE?
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At DE, his back will be tested/stressed..........but nowhere close to if he is moved to TE. At TE, he will be repeatedly exposed to situations he would never have to deal with while living close to the ground as a DE.............being hit in the thoraco-lumbar area while going up for a pass or being stretched out or being folded over or landing awkwardly after going up for a pass...........assuredly a recipe for disaster and putting a quick end to his career.

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Even the typical legal mid body tackle could be a catastrophic event for someone like Watt who has already undergone 2 lumbar surgeries.

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Doc who is stronger Watt or Clowney? Both have shown to be good against run; could Watt be 'healthier' at OLB due to back and core issues with Clowney at DE? Just trying to figure how both could remain on field in 'safest' spot. I know we still don't know how healthy Clowney is. Regardless of where they play both will continue to be after the QB and shutting down run.
 
badboy said:
Doc who is stronger Watt or Clowney? Both have shown to be good against run; could Watt be 'healthier' at OLB due to back and core issues with Clowney at DE? Just trying to figure how both could remain on field in 'safest' spot. I know we still don't know how healthy Clowney is. Regardless of where they play both will continue to be after the QB and shutting down run.
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Hate to admit it but I have already substantially lowered my expectations for Clowneys performance & contritution to the team in 2018.
 
badboy said:
Doc who is stronger Watt or Clowney? Both have shown to be good against run; could Watt be 'healthier' at OLB due to back and core issues with Clowney at DE? Just trying to figure how both could remain on field in 'safest' spot. I know we still don't know how healthy Clowney is. Regardless of where they play both will continue to be after the QB and shutting down run.
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Clowney as I've posted numerous times should not be played at DE because of the markedly increased stresses on his knees that is required to come out of a 3 point stance. Although not reported, he assuredly has hip problems (86% of sports hernia patients.......and he had bilateral sports hernia repairs). He not only has his microfracture knee to worry about, his other knee has already required surgery. He's had increasing problems with his left foot and right ankle. This is a pattern of cascading lower joint deteriorations. He's running out of joints to effectively compensate his previous injuries.

Watt will have problems at DE, constantly banging against big bodies. He now also needs to be concerned about his knee coming out of the 3 point (no doubt, despite not being emphasized, with a tibial plateau fracture, he has undoubtedly sustained meniscus and articular cartilage damage). Finally, to be effective as either a DE or an OLB, he needs to be able to swim, twist and go low and come up (low pad level) against strong resistance, not to mention wrapping and tackling............all maneuvers requiring a strong, healthy core.

I am not very confident in either player "lasting" on the field, when in order to avoid all the stresses hazardous to their conditions, they may be left with the only safer option of "bull rushing"...............and hoping not to encounter significant resistance on the way.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Clowney as I've posted numerous times should not be played at DE because of the markedly increased stresses on his knees that is required to come out of a 3 point stance. Although not reported, he assuredly has hip problems (86% of sports hernia patients.......and he had bilateral sports hernia repairs). He not only has his microfracture knee to worry about, his other knee has already required surgery. He's had increasing problems with his left foot and right ankle. This is a pattern of cascading lower joint deteriorations. He's running out of joints to effectively compensate his previous injuries.

Watt will have problems at DE, constantly banging against big bodies. He now also needs to be concerned about his knee coming out of the 3 point (no doubt, despite not being emphasized, with a tibial plateau fracture, he has undoubtedly sustained meniscus and articular cartilage damage). Finally, to be effective as either a DE or an OLB, he needs to be able to swim, twist and go low and come up (low pad level) against strong resistance, not to mention wrapping and tackling............all maneuvers requiring a strong, healthy core.

I am not very confident in either player "lasting" on the field, when in order to avoid all the stresses hazardous to their conditions, they may be left with the only safer option of "bull rushing"...............and hoping not to encounter significant resistance on the way.
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Thanks, I'm already searching for replacements for that day sooner or later when these two are Texans no more.
 
badboy said:
Thanks, I'm already searching for replacements for that day sooner or later when these two are Texans no more.
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finding studs to fill out the D-line rotation could reduce wear & tear and maybe make the D stronger overall. Next to rebuilding the O-line, I'd be looking for D-line guys.

...but I guess that should be the aim no matter the position, huh?
 
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