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Duane Brown traded to Seahawks

steelbtexan said:
If this is the case then Gaine would be a terrible hire. You've got to be able to evaluate talent better than this if you want to build a true contender, rather than what we've seen from the Texans org over the yrs. There have been far too many examples of picks like KJo over Peters. Cushing over Matthews to name one off of the top of my head. This doesn't even call into account rds 2-4 piss poor draft record.

This has nothing to do with who I would pick and everything to do with who was picked.
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The GM has final word and can overrule his top scouting underlings.

Found these interesting statements from a 2013 article
Where Do NFL GMs Come From?
.
Origins

Generally speaking, there are four different types of general managers: former scouts, number-crunching accountants, former players as well as a few owners who choose to make their own personnel decisions.
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It makes plenty of sense that the majority of general managers—67 percent—have taken the traditional "former scout" track on their way to the top. After all, you could be the best cap magician in the world, but if you can’t separate trash from treasure, your ability as a general manager will always be limited.
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  1. Sarah Barshop‏@sarahbarshop 20h20 hours ago


    Brown also addressed Bob McNair’s comments at the October owners meeting and McNair’s response to the team after it became public.

    DWF742JUMAASkGQ.jpg
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    [*]Sarah Barshop‏@sarahbarshop 20h20 hours ago



    Brown played one game for the Texans last season before he was traded to Seattle.

    DWF7WL8V4AARVmR.jpg
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Double Barrel said:
DB never cried about being underpaid. He just wanted guarantees in case he got hurt. Why is that too much to ask for as a player? Dude is an all-pro LT, which last time I checked, are not easy to come by in the NFL.
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As mentioned earlier, his contract was fully guaranteed day 1 of the regular season (as he was a 4-yr "vested player). IMHO, his excuse rings hollow after that.
 
disaacks3 said:
As mentioned earlier, his contract was fully guaranteed day 1 of the regular season (as he was a 4-yr "vested player). IMHO, his excuse rings hollow after that.
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Why are several media outlets consistently reporting that it was unguaranteed?

Regardless, I still don't understand why fans take this shit so personal. It's just the business of entertainment. Bob McNair could care even less about any of us than he does Duane Brown. We are just customers and Brown is just a commodity.

What rings "hollow" is the Texans flimsy excuse of not negotiating before the last year when they did it for AJ (5 years left in 2010) and JJ (2 years left). Brown should certainly have had the stature considering hit talent and tenure with team.

No, truth is Mr. GOP McNair didn't like Brown's politics and let that get in the way of a business decision (and according to Brown, vice versa). Brown is still making almost $10 million on a contender in 2018, while the Texans will be scrambling to fix a very weak o-line in his absence.
 
Double Barrel said:
Why are several media outlets consistently reporting that it was unguaranteed?
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Both are correct. 2017 & 2018 were not contractually guaranteed. But every player with more than 4 seasons becomes guaranteed for that season if they are on the 53 man roster opening day.

Regardless, I still don't understand why fans take this shit so personal.
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Good question.
 
Double Barrel said:
Why are several media outlets consistently reporting that it was unguaranteed?

Regardless, I still don't understand why fans take this shit so personal. It's just the business of entertainment. Bob McNair could care even less about any of us than he does Duane Brown. We are just customers and Brown is just a commodity.

What rings "hollow" is the Texans flimsy excuse of not negotiating before the last year when they did it for AJ (5 years left in 2010) and JJ (2 years left). Brown should certainly have had the stature considering hit talent and tenure with team.

No, truth is Mr. GOP McNair didn't like Brown's politics and let that get in the way of a business decision (and according to Brown, vice versa). Brown is still making almost $10 million on a contender in 2018, while the Texans will be scrambling to fix a very weak o-line in his absence.
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'Cak addressed the guarantee issue above.

I don't take any of it personal, except to the degree that any person just starts "making sh!t up" to make themselves appear more honorable. Duane can't imagine that he's possible a "bad guy" in all this. I find that delusional. I'd respect him more if he simply "owned it".

Duane Brown was not at the level of either AJ or JJ. I'm not seeing him discussed as a future HoF inductee (AJ), or a a league MVP (JJ). In both of those cases, the Texans reached out first. Once again, I think his self-importance was overinflated...and it was exacerbated by the brilliance of the Texans FO in not even picking up the phone to talk.

...and Brown didn't like McNair politics and let it get in the way of playing out his contract. That sword cuts both ways, and neither party is without blame.
 
infantrycak said:
Both are correct. 2017 & 2018 were not contractually guaranteed. But every player with more than 4 seasons becomes guaranteed for that season if they are on the 53 man roster opening day.

Good question.
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So if Brown is hurt first game in 2017 then no guarantee for 2018? Is that correct?

disaacks3 said:
'Cak addressed the guarantee issue above.
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His statement also supported what Brown was saying. Brown wanted long term security, not just season to season.

It's just business.

disaacks3 said:
I don't take any of it personal, except to the degree that any person just starts "making sh!t up" to make themselves appear more honorable. Duane can't imagine that he's possible a "bad guy" in all this. I find that delusional. I'd respect him more if he simply "owned it".
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You sort of come across as a Texans apologist. If that is not your intent, perhaps you should present yourself differently. For me, it's just entertainment. For McNair and Brown, it's their business.

But that's just my perception of your post.

However, there are clearly some personal feelings by other posters in this thread. Straight up butthurt from grown freakin' men. It's sad, really (not you, but clearly others).

disaacks3 said:
Duane Brown was not at the level of either AJ or JJ. I'm not seeing him discussed as a future HoF inductee (AJ), or a a league MVP (JJ). In both of those cases, the Texans reached out first. Once again, I think his self-importance was overinflated...and it was exacerbated by the brilliance of the Texans FO in not even picking up the phone to talk.
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DB is top 5 Texans player of all time (some could argue top 3). He deserved more respect from this organization, or at least how the organization tries to spin itself.

He was widely considered a shoo-in for the Texans Ring of Honor before this situation, so why is it difficult to comprehend that his talent was assumed to be valued by this franchise?

Oh, and good luck finding another pro-bowl LT anytime soon.

disaacks3 said:
...and Brown didn't like McNair politics and let it get in the way of playing out his contract. That sword cuts both ways, and neither party is without blame.
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McNair is a fool for walking into a predominantly black locker room and bringing up the Obama election in the manner that he presented it. There is a time and place, and that certainly was poor judgment on his part. Bob McNair poisoned the waters. So folks should not act surprised when those waters end up poisoning relationships with the organization that he owns.
 
disaacks3 said:
'Cak addressed the guarantee issue above.

I don't take any of it personal, except to the degree that any person just starts "making sh!t up" to make themselves appear more honorable. Duane can't imagine that he's possible a "bad guy" in all this. I find that delusional. I'd respect him more if he simply "owned it".

Duane Brown was not at the level of either AJ or JJ. I'm not seeing him discussed as a future HoF inductee (AJ), or a a league MVP (JJ). In both of those cases, the Texans reached out first. Once again, I think his self-importance was overinflated...and it was exacerbated by the brilliance of the Texans FO in not even picking up the phone to talk.

...and Brown didn't like McNair politics and let it get in the way of playing out his contract. That sword cuts both ways, and neither party is without blame.
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Yeah but Brown is/was still the only 1 vilified of the 2 for standing on his principles.

McNair and the FO tried to fall back on “its just business” and it backfired. Fact of the matter is all parties took a hit. Brown was hit in his pocket, Smith with his cred as a GM and McNair with his precious image having been tarnished.

But in a comparison of who won the most of the 3, clearly its Brown. He went to another contender, moved closer to his wife in the process and is likely to get that new deal anyway.
 
Double Barrel said:
His statement also supported what Brown was saying. Brown wanted long term security, not just season to season.

It's just business.
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...and he needed to wait another year, just like Hopkins before it would be on the table from the Texans. He clearly knew this, and was incensed that he didn't get the offer (or a discussion over it at the very least).

Double Barrel said:
You sort of come across as a Texans apologist. If that is not your intent, perhaps you should present yourself differently. For me, it's just entertainment. For McNair and Brown, it's their business.

But that's just my perception of your post.
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Fair enough. You're coming across as though Brown "had no other choices" in how he handled himself. In my view, he behaved like a petulant child who didn't get his way. It's not that I don't see how holding out is his only true leverage, but his conflicting statements about wanting to be a Texan forever vs. his statements about McNair cry total bullsh!t to me...unless he's saying that if he'd gotten the extension he wanted that he'd somehow find a way to tolerate McNair. That's textbook sellout.

I agree, it's their business. Duane let his feelings get in the way. Whether they were due solely to McNair's tone-deaf statements, or the Texans refusal to extend him EARLY (business decision), or by some combination thereof, it was an emotional decision, not a business on on his part to no-show after Day 1.

Honestly, look at it logically -Has Brown received an extension yet? No. Would Brown likely have received an extension this off-season from the Texans? Yes. Who has more cap space to spend this offseason? The Texans. He's zero percentage points ahead of where he'd have been if he stayed.

If looking at it logically makes me an "apologist", so be it. I quite clearly see things the Texans have f'ed up...there's more than a few of them. I'm just not going to ignore Brown's inability to "suck it up and play", simply because he got his feelings hurt.

Double Barrel said:
DB is top 5 Texans player of all time (some could argue top 3). He deserved more respect from this organization, or at least how the organization tries to spin itself.

He was widely considered a shoo-in for the Texans Ring of Honor before this situation, so why is it difficult to comprehend that his talent was assumed to be valued by this franchise?

Oh, and good luck finding another pro-bowl LT anytime soon.
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Respect? HE chose to sit out. HE chose to leave.
Before you get all gooey over his value vs. THE ONLY TWO GUYS TO EVER GET AN EARLY EXTENSION FROM THE TEXANS.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/av_active.htm
Approx Value Leaders (alltime) Andre Johnson #163
Approx Value Leaders (active) JJ Watt #43

He very possibly would've been in the Texans Ring of Honor eventually. It doesn't change the Texans financial perspective on it today, nor is he at the level of the two above.

Double Barrel said:
McNair is a fool for walking into a predominantly black locker room and bringing up the Obama election in the manner that he presented it. There is a time and place, and that certainly was poor judgment on his part. Bob McNair poisoned the waters. So folks should not act surprised when those waters end up poisoning relationships with the organization that he owns.
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Agree fully. It was stupid, and honestly, the comment about education he made was FAR worse.

The Obama election comment was nearly ten years ago. Why did Duane renew in 2012 if that hurt ran so deep?
Simple. It makes Duane look less mercenary to blame it on McNair's inept comments.
 
Double Barrel said:
So if Brown is hurt first game in 2017 then no guarantee for 2018? Is that correct?



His statement also supported what Brown was saying. Brown wanted long term security, not just season to season.

It's just business.



You sort of come across as a Texans apologist. If that is not your intent, perhaps you should present yourself differently. For me, it's just entertainment. For McNair and Brown, it's their business.

But that's just my perception of your post.

However, there are clearly some personal feelings by other posters in this thread. Straight up butthurt from grown freakin' men. It's sad, really (not you, but clearly others).



DB is top 5 Texans player of all time (some could argue top 3). He deserved more respect from this organization, or at least how the organization tries to spin itself.

He was widely considered a shoo-in for the Texans Ring of Honor before this situation, so why is it difficult to comprehend that his talent was assumed to be valued by this franchise?

Oh, and good luck finding another pro-bowl LT anytime soon.



McNair is a fool for walking into a predominantly black locker room and bringing up the Obama election in the manner that he presented it. There is a time and place, and that certainly was poor judgment on his part. Bob McNair poisoned the waters. So folks should not act surprised when those waters end up poisoning relationships with the organization that he owns.
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There's nothing else to say, haha you'v said it all. Spot on DB
 
I remember some experts saying Duane would not come back from his last injury .. that worked out well. Opinions and assholes right?
 
Who here has ever made the decision to leave their job? Me too. When you made that conscious decision, it was pretty much game over. Peace out DB76.

The fact we got their second next year, is not the worst thing in the world TBH. That's the least Rick smith can do for us. Doesn't get him off the hook for being incredibly inept to cost us this year.
 
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I'm very much "meh" on the whole DB76 issue. I do think it was more about him being butt hurt about not getting a new deal than about anything McNair said. JMO, though.
 
Uncle Rico said:
https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/2/16/17019204/duane-brown-deserved-better

Read that again. The situation is over and "meh" is the right expression, but painting Duane in a negative light and allowing the team a pass is not the reality.
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Yep,

The team did wrong by some of McNair's comments.

After the NA crap DB's fate was sealed as a Texan.

I think McNair called DB into his office and said the NA crap was bad for business. DB didn't take kindly to that which lead to the holdout and DB's fate was sealed.

I find it interesting that players love to play for BOB.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Yep,

The team did wrong by some of McNair's comments.

After the NA crap DB's fate was sealed as a Texan.

I think McNair called DB into his office and said the NA crap was bad for business. DB didn't take kindly to that which lead to the holdout and DB's fate was sealed.

I find it interesting that players love to play for BOB.
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Business should never be personal, McNair is an uber smart business man, but he's used his team ownership to convey his political alliance and personal morale compass too many times.

Do what is right for the team, not your political party.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Business should never be personal, McNair is an uber smart business man, but he's used his team ownership to convey his political alliance and personal morale compass too many times.

Do what is right for the team, not your political party.
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He always does what's right for the bottom line.
 
infantrycak said:
Winning would be right for the bottom line. That's the fatal flaw in your McNair digs. The Cowboys are worth more and make more off winning they did 25 years ago.
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The NA crap was bad for business.

What have the Cowboys won in the past 20 + yrs?

What is the value of the Cowboys franchise today?

The top 5 franchise values are Dallas/Pats/NYG/49ers/Redskins, how many of those teams made the playoffs this yr? How many have made the playoffs regularly the last decade?

Maybe winning isn't as important as you think it is.
 
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JB said:
Yeah cuz neither Dallas nor Wash made it more than once or twice in the last decade and the Eagles were an afterthought before this past year
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The Eagles valuation isn't in the top 5.

I'm just saying that making the playoffs doesn't always equate to a higher franchise valuation. I would even say making the playoffs isn't the most important thing to increase valuations.
 
steelbtexan said:
The NA crap was bad for business.

What have the Cowboys won in the past 20 + yrs?

What is the value of the Cowboys franchise today?

The top 5 franchise values are Dallas/Pats/NYG/49ers/Redskins, how many of those teams made the playoffs this yr? How many have made the playoffs regularly the last decade?

Maybe winning isn't as important as you think it is.
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You just underlined his point. 3 out of 5 haven’t won Super Bowls in 20 plus years. Past success has helped them.
 
steelbtexan said:
What have the Cowboys won in the past 20 + yrs?

What is the value of the Cowboys franchise today?

The top 5 franchise values are Dallas/Pats/NYG/49ers/Redskins, how many of those teams made the playoffs this yr? How many have made the playoffs regularly the last decade?

Maybe winning isn't as important as you think it is.
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Wow did you miss the point. The Cowboys won for decades capping off the run with 3 SBs. All that winning built a legacy of profit even when they aren't winning consistently.

That's 22 SB championships. . That means the other 27 teams share 30. Really 26 have 24 other than Pittsburg. Yeah, winning counts.

You're thinking immediate gratification. I'm talking long term business success.
 
infantrycak said:
Wow did you miss the point. The Cowboys won for decades capping off the run with 3 SBs. All that winning built a legacy of profit even when they aren't winning consistently.

That's 22 SB championships. . That means the other 27 teams share 30. Really 26 have 24 other than Pittsburg. Yeah, winning counts
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But it's not the most important thing.
 
steelbtexan said:
The Eagles valuation isn't in the top 5.
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My point was that 3 of 5 are in the NFC East, and someone has to make it. To imply that losing is cost effective and profitable is ludicrous... failure is not something anyone likes to do, most especially self-made billionaires
 
infantrycak said:
Nope since other teams have made money too.

This is just part of your uncontrollable urge to assign ill intent where well intentioned bad decisions, bad luck, etc. may be the explanation.
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After a decade and a half it is what it is.
 
I read yrs ago and I know times change, Bud made more $$$$ making the playoffs and losing in the 1st rd than he would have if the Oilers had made the SB.

Also somewhere CnD posted an article that backed up my assertion.
 
steelbtexan said:
I read yrs ago and I know times change, Bud made more $$$$ making the playoffs and losing in the 1st rd than he would have if the Oilers had made the SB.

Also somewhere CnD posted an article that backed up my assertion.
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You don't listen to anything you don't want to hear. That article had egregious errors.
 
infantrycak said:
You don't listen to anything you don't want to hear. That article had egregious errors.
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Point them out please.

Or is that just your opinion?

The article appears valid to me. Certainly the writer put more research into the article than you have in your opinion. You just dont agree with the article.
 
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I pointed them out last time and you paid no attention.

But for example the article missed that the players are paid by the league not the teams in the playoffs. Pretty basic fact for your ASSumption to miss.
 
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