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State of the O-line

dream_team said:
So essentially, two 2nd rounders for a 32yo LT a year off major surgery, that only has one more year left in his contract. Someone who is obviously not happy with his current contract.

Why would Seattle do this?
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Then why would the Seahawks have any interest in DB to begin with? It appears that they do and their interest would probably be based on DB's past work and his bounce back from injury last season. Desperate situations can make teams very optimistic in regards to some player(s). Isn't this the same situation that got RS and McNair's family jewels lowered into the vise of reality?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Man, if the Seahawks are that interested in obtaining DB, then I could see my recommendation on a few other post' being a reasonable option. I'd still ask for Pocic but I wouldn't be bashful in asking a 2018 RD2 as well....or settling for a RD3 at worse, which was my initial idea.

I think Pocic could be a starter this season. I'm thinking, LG- Martin, OC- Mancz, RG- Pocic could set the enterior of the OL for many seasons going forward. Might as well start Davenport at RT now and let him use this season for developmental purposes. Texans could then bundle a few picks and grab one of the better LT prospects in 2018.

Trading DB at this time may actually help expedite the rebuilding of this OL since the team doesn't currently possess any 2018 RD1 or RD2 picks. If Watson is going to have any chance at success, the Texans cannot roll through 2018 with this OL mess.
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Davenport was basically used as a blocking TE last game. His physical appearance to me was of a TE not an OT.............well developed upper body with a poorly developed base. He definitely need to work on the weights. He won't have the strength/leverage to take on OT duties at this time.
 
I think a 2nd round is about as good as it will get. Honestly not a bad trade in the long run, the money freed up plus the pick will help for 2018. Then you would have a 2nd and two 3rds to spend on oline, plus the extra cash in FA.


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CloakNNNdagger said:
Davenport was basically used as a blocking TE last game. His physical appearance to me was of a TE not an OT.............well developed upper body with a poorly developed base. He definitely need to work on the weights. He won't have the strength/leverage to take on OT duties at this time.
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Could he be beaten any worse than the other OT's the RS's (Texans) will continue to run out there for the rest of this season? Let him get his nose bloodied so he fully understands how to prioritize his off-season in preparation for 2018. If his base was his weakness, I'm sure coaches will have focus on gaining strength in that area.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Man, if the Seahawks are that interested in obtaining DB, then I could see my recommendation on a few other post' being a reasonable option. I'd still ask for Pocic but I wouldn't be bashful in asking a 2018 RD2 as well....or settling for a RD3 at worse, which was my initial idea.

I think Pocic could be a starter this season. I'm thinking, LG- Martin, OC- Mancz, RG- Pocic could set the enterior of the OL for many seasons going forward. Might as well start Davenport at RT now and let him use this season for developmental purposes. Texans could then bundle a few picks and grab one of the better LT prospects in 2018.

Trading DB at this time may actually help expedite the rebuilding of this OL since the team doesn't currently possess any 2018 RD1 or RD2 picks. If Watson is going to have any chance at success, the Texans cannot roll through 2018 with this OL mess.
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I like the way you think. Sound ideas which the team should be pursuing.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Man, if the Seahawks are that interested in obtaining DB, then I could see my recommendation on a few other post' being a reasonable option. I'd still ask for Pocic but I wouldn't be bashful in asking a 2018 RD2 as well....or settling for a RD3 at worse, which was my initial idea.

I think Pocic could be a starter this season. I'm thinking, LG- Martin, OC- Mancz, RG- Pocic could set the enterior of the OL for many seasons going forward. Might as well start Davenport at RT now and let him use this season for developmental purposes. Texans could then bundle a few picks and grab one of the better LT prospects in 2018.

Trading DB at this time may actually help expedite the rebuilding of this OL since the team doesn't currently possess any 2018 RD1 or RD2 picks. If Watson is going to have any chance at success, the Texans cannot roll through 2018 with this OL mess.
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I think Seattle traded their 2018 2nd for Sheldon Richardson.

But I like the idea.
 
Insideop said:
I'm not sure the Texans "hold all the cards" regarding Brown's future but I do think they need to make a decision on what they plan to do with him soon. I don't know how long the Texans are willing to wait on DB but if they wait too long to bring him back the season could be lost, and by that time he could lose his value to Seattle or other teams that may be interested in a trade for him. They need to agree to terms with DB or trade him while "the iron is hot!" Game 3 is fast approaching. How long will Seattle wait? What is their offer now versus later if they haven't changed their mind by then? Rick, Sh!t or get off the pot!!!!
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Seattle is on the schedule .... Not sure I'd want Brown on that roster telling them all about the Texans offense making life easier for them on both sides of the ball ....

I'd expect more from them , being of great need and on the schedule , than from a team not on the schedule ..... or call me the day after the game.
 
jradMIT said:
I think a 2nd round is about as good as it will get. Honestly not a bad trade in the long run, the money freed up plus the pick will help for 2018. Then you would have a 2nd and two 3rds to spend on oline, plus the extra cash in FA.


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I think a 4th rounder is about all they can get for Brown - and that's why he hasn't been moved already.
 
Corrosion said:
Pretty much .... I just cant see any team giving up very much in terms of draft capital for Brown .... When players move they seldom bring much return that way.
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I bet a team like the Giants would give up a 2nd or 3rd plus Rodger Lewis for DB. I dont know what the Giants salary cap situation looks like though.
 
Corrosion said:
If they made that offer he woulda been in NYC faster than a speeding bullet.


Watch - they will be lucky to get a 4th.
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After watching Eli get beat up and the NYG OL give up 3 sacks to Ansah alone tonight, I wouldn't be so sure of this post.

If I was Jerry Reese I would be on the phone offering a 3rd tonight to Ricky. If I was Ricky I would demand a talented young WR like Lewis be included in the deal and after watching Eli get beat up for 2 weeks I would make the deal if i'm in Reese's shoes. Eli isn't going to make it thru the season if the Giants dont find a way to improve the OL. DB would allow Flowers to move to his natural RT position.
 
steelbtexan said:
After watching Eli get beat up and the NYG OL give up 3 sacks to Ansah alone tonight, I wouldn't be so sure of this post.
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Eli just happens to have the longest active streak of consecutive games started. I believe by a QB, may be any position.

steelbtexan said:
If I was Jerry Reese...
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Reese is obviously trying to get McAdoo fired so I doubt he'll do that.
 
If all the Texans got in a deal with the Seahawks was Pocic and a RD4....heck, that's a win win for RS and the Texans. This would only represent re-surfacing the top, quality depth is a whole other issue and that could take a few more drafts to correct. Again, why is RS the Texans GM....the real reason?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If all the Texans got in a deal with the Seahawks was Pocic and a RD4....heck, that's a win win for RS and the Texans. This would only represent re-surfacing the top, quality depth is a whole other issue and that could take a few more drafts to correct. Again, why is RS the Texans GM....the real reason?
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I like Pocic and I think he will be great, but I struggle to see why/how Seattle parts ways with him for DB. We'd have to sweeten the deal to land Pocic.
 
TigerV1 said:
I like Pocic and I think he will be great, but I struggle to see why/how Seattle parts ways with him for DB. We'd have to sweeten the deal to land Pocic.
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Pocic is on their depth chart as C2 and RT2. DB brings them a ready to go Pro Bowl LT which appears to be their biggest need at the moment...that could be why they've been asking about DB. Key, do they want DB enough to part with Pocic and a late round pick?
 
Corrosion said:
Seattle is on the schedule .... Not sure I'd want Brown on that roster telling them all about the Texans offense making life easier for them on both sides of the ball ....

I'd expect more from them , being of great need and on the schedule , than from a team not on the schedule ..... or call me the day after the game.
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What super secrets could Brown possibly know that Pete Carroll cannot deduce in 10 minutes watching the Texans offense?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
That can't happen....man has his rules!!!
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You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to cut 'em
Know when to walk away
Know when to run
You never count Bob's money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the offseasons done

Every GM knows
That the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away
And knowin' what to keep
'Cause every drafts a winner
And every drafts a loser
And the best that you can hope for
Is to die in your sleep"
 
Corrosion said:
Seattle is on the schedule .... Not sure I'd want Brown on that roster telling them all about the Texans offense making life easier for them on both sides of the ball ....

I'd expect more from them , being of great need and on the schedule , than from a team not on the schedule ..... or call me the day after the game.
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To me, if they trade Brown to Seattle the season is probably over and it becomes more about developing Watson, picking up draft picks, and build a new O-line for next season. The Texans would never admit this, but I have to believe they would be thinking it in the back of their minds. I can't imagine them letting this situation with DB go on for too much longer while watching the team probably lose the next 3 games (Pats, Tits, and Chiefs). My guess is if DB isn't back with the team by the "Tits" game, he's not coming back as a Texan, especially if they lose to them. This is a game of "chicken" and neither side seems to be budging!
 
zshawn10 said:
Seattle calling about Duane Brown:



http://scout.com/nfl/texans/Article...wn-Saga-the-Houston-Texans-Offensiv-107606172
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This is what will keep Watson as the starter if he can continue with anywhere close to this:

The fact remains that the Texans want Watson to work underneath and let his receivers go to work.

To this point, Watson is completing 73.3% of his passes on his 30 attempts of throws of 10 yards or less. While the Texans do not have a high-flying offense, their ball control offense is trying to cut down the chances of getting into long yardage situations on 2nd and 3rd downs
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
I don't think a 32 year old holdout will bring in a lot . Besides what's the Texans biggest need ? I would say OL ... hmm ... what does Brown play ... hmm ... OL . This principle they stand on doesn't apply to their popular / HEB guys , it's only for the rest . I think Duane believes he's in the first category .
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he better come up with a HEB commercial quick then.
 
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dream_team said:
So essentially, two 2nd rounders for a 32yo LT a year off major surgery, that only has one more year left in his contract. Someone who is obviously not happy with his current contract.

Why would Seattle do this?
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while I agree with the wording of your post here is how I would sell the opposite: LT is arguably second most important position on offense if not roster and any team asking about DB thinks he could benefit team. How many times have we seen NFL teams bringing in players that have been recent busts (especially at QB and WR) with belief the new team can turn the player around. 32 is not too old and he is one year past injury. He returned in 2016 missing first four games but started last 12 games. He is not happy with his contract and a new team could make him very happy with new deal plus Seattle plays us in week eight, Brown should want to showcase his new worth against "old" team.
 
The Chron this morning has a piece titled, "O-line takes a leap forward". They attribute this, in part to Mancz, who did not start game 1. McClain also says, "...don't expect him to come out of the lineup".

In my opinion, it seems Mancz plays better than he practices. Why else would the coaches start other players over him?

I would suggest that mano a mano, in practice, stronger players might get the better of him. But in games, he uses his football intelligence and technique to gain leverage and position, things which may not show up on the practice field.
 
Number19 said:
The Chron this morning has a piece titled, "O-line takes a leap forward". They attribute this, in part to Mancz, who did not start game 1. McClain also says, "...don't expect him to come out of the lineup".

In my opinion, it seems Mancz plays better than he practices. Why else would the coaches start other players over him?

I would suggest that mano a mano, in practice, stronger players might get the better of him. But in games, he uses his football intelligence and technique to gain leverage and position, things which may not show up on the practice field.
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Well, it did take the Texans 4 months of practices to figure out they wanted Savage starting and Strong on the 53. So Mancz in after 1 game is right in line there.
 
Number19 said:
The Chron this morning has a piece titled, "O-line takes a leap forward". They attribute this, in part to Mancz, who did not start game 1. McClain also says, "...don't expect him to come out of the lineup".

In my opinion, it seems Mancz plays better than he practices. Why else would the coaches start other players over him?

I would suggest that mano a mano, in practice, stronger players might get the better of him. But in games, he uses his football intelligence and technique to gain leverage and position, things which may not show up on the practice field.
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It could be as simple as having a lot invested in X (2nd rounder) and Allen (FA money) and wanted to make that work. With Martin penciled in at C then Mancz was doomed to be the backup interior lineman.

Not saying it was a right decision, or that this is what they actually did (unlike some people I clearly state my opinion about the inner workings on Kirby is just that, an opinion) but at least they recognized that they had to get him in there. The fewer plays X and/or Allen are in there, the better.
 
sandman said:
It could be as simple as having a lot invested in X (2nd rounder) and Allen (FA money) and wanted to make that work. With Martin penciled in at C then Mancz was doomed to be the backup interior lineman.

Not saying it was a right decision, or that this is what they actually did (unlike some people I clearly state my opinion about the inner workings on Kirby is just that, an opinion) but at least they recognized that they had to get him in there. The fewer plays X and/or Allen are in there, the better.
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I agree, they appear to be trying very hard to get something out of X and Allen before they have to make decisions on the two players.

Looking at the contracts for our OL, we have X, Clark, Giacomini, Mancz, Lamm, and Reid on their final years. Newton restructured and carries no dead cap next year, so he will be cut. There is an out in Allen's contract after this year that has us save $5M in 2018 cap if cut, so he's gone. I can't imagine he'll not be cut. Brown could be gone as well. It's clear that they desperately want both Allen and X to work out so that they don't have to make as many major changes to the line next year. That's not going so well for them.

Next year, we have Martin, Mancz, and Brown as players who would be penciled into a starting 5, only after we re-sign Mancz and deal with Brown's contract problems. We'd have Davenport and Fuller on the roster as backups. We could re-sign Lamm for backup money if we want, and we may have to do that just for numbers sake.

That's a lot of players within one position group to replace and improve upon. There aren't many good free agent OL either, so I'm not sure what the Texans plan to do to right the ship quickly after this season. The way it looks now, we are going to need to draft 2-3 offensive linemen, AND sign a few in FA.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I agree, they appear to be trying very hard to get something out of X and Allen before they have to make decisions on the two players.

Looking at the contracts for our OL, we have X, Clark, Giacomini, Mancz, Lamm, and Reid on their final years. Newton restructured and carries no dead cap next year, so he will be cut. There is an out in Allen's contract after this year that has us save $5M in 2018 cap if cut, so he's gone. I can't imagine he'll not be cut. Brown could be gone as well. It's clear that they desperately want both Allen and X to work out so that they don't have to make as many major changes to the line next year. That's not going so well for them.

Next year, we have Martin, Mancz, and Brown as players who would be penciled into a starting 5, only after we re-sign Mancz and deal with Brown's contract problems. We'd have Davenport and Fuller on the roster as backups. We could re-sign Lamm for backup money if we want, and we may have to do that just for numbers sake.

That's a lot of players within one position group to replace and improve upon. There aren't many good free agent OL either, so I'm not sure what the Texans plan to do to right the ship quickly after this season. The way it looks now, we are going to need to draft 2-3 offensive linemen, AND sign a few in FA.
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Bad position to be in, without a 1 or 2, to add quality talent who can step right in and start. Drafting lower round talent can be iffy. And as shown with Allen, signing FA's can be iffy.

This season is a write-off. I agree with a previous post that we need to go ahead and give starting reps to Davenport to get him experience in preparation for next year. CnnnD thinks he doesn't have the core strength to be effective, but still give him the snaps. We're looking at 8-8 this year so it hardly matters, except for not getting Watson killed.
 
Number19 said:
The Chron this morning has a piece titled, "O-line takes a leap forward". They attribute this, in part to Mancz, who did not start game 1. McClain also says, "...don't expect him to come out of the lineup".

In my opinion, it seems Mancz plays better than he practices. Why else would the coaches start other players over him?

I would suggest that mano a mano, in practice, stronger players might get the better of him. But in games, he uses his football intelligence and technique to gain leverage and position, things which may not show up on the practice field.
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One guard was a 2nd round pick and the other a prize FA signed after they let Brooks walk . How would it look if an UDFA can beat out both ?
 
sandman said:
It could be as simple as having a lot invested in X (2nd rounder) and Allen (FA money) and wanted to make that work. With Martin penciled in at C then Mancz was doomed to be the backup interior lineman.

Not saying it was a right decision, or that this is what they actually did (unlike some people I clearly state my opinion about the inner workings on Kirby is just that, an opinion) but at least they recognized that they had to get him in there. The fewer plays X and/or Allen are in there, the better.
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The best players should play regardless of salary. It's how the Pats go about their business. The Texans not so much and the on field product suffers because of this policy.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
One guard was a 2nd round pick and the other a prize FA signed after they let Brooks walk . How would it look if an UDFA can beat out both ?
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It would look like somebody better buckle down & figure out what they need to do to get better.

It would look like busting your butt & producing when you get an opportunity will pay off & earn you some playing time.

It would look like Billy ain't lying to his players when he says, "We don't care where you're from or what you're paid..."

It would look like more effort on special teams will get you "real" playing time.

:twocents:
 
thunderkyss said:
It would look like somebody better buckle down & figure out what they need to do to get better.

It would look like busting your butt & producing when you get an opportunity will pay off & earn you some playing time.

It would look like Billy ain't lying to his players when he says, "We don't care where you're from or what you're paid..."

It would look like more effort on special teams will get you "real" playing time.

:twocents:
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Here is a quote from BOB in that article from the Chronicle:

“I’m going to play the guys that are playing the best,” O’Brien said. “That’s what we’re going to try to do — make it competitive in practice and try to put the best five out there.”

Sounds like "Billy" doesn't care if an UDFA beats out a drafted player or prize FA. And why would he? Having more wins than losses is what keeps you employed as a coach so you want the players that are playing the best out on the field to give you a better chance of winning. Sure they will give the drafted player plenty of chances to perform and prove himself, but soon or later a coach/team will have to "cut bait" if that player is not living up to his draft position. Every team goes through this and has their hits and misses, even the Patriots. It's just not noticed as much when your team always has a winning record and multiple :trophy::trophy::trophy::trophy::trophy: titles!

BOB replaced XSF in the Jags game with Mancz and Mancz probably would still be there if it hadn't been for Allen getting hurt. So Mancz moved over to Allen's spot at RG and XSF had to come back in at LG. When Allen comes back I'm sure XSF will sit unless he's improved a lot and is one of the 5 best linemen. My guess is though he's probably playing his final season in a Texans uniform. I just can't see them bringing him back. JMO.
 
State of the OL right now:

Happy-Gilmore-Thumbs-Down.gif


Thankfully there should be some good ones available in the first two rounds of the draft in 2018


oh wait


nvm
 
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