If he had done that, you'd be complaining they didn't draft a QB you wanted.
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
If he had done that, you'd be complaining they didn't draft a QB you wanted.
True
Still put a rookie QB and Savage has very limited experience and Watson being a rookie behind an OL like the one we saw last night and what do you expect them to look like? Not to mention the longterm damage that can be done.
Wrong
If you remember I didn't like this QB class and wanted RS to take a flier on Chad Kelly.
Watt huffing and puffing after three plays doesn't encourage me about his recovery either.
Wait.... What?
Watt is huffing and puffing after 1 play... He gives everything on every play, so yeah. Not encouraged? OK, but I've been pretty pleased by what I've seen so far. That's kind of a niggling comment imo
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
JB, I think you need to look at what is being referred to as huffing and puffing. It was way beyond what would normally be expected. On none of his plays was he able to find the strength to disengage past the RT. He was so out of breath hyperventilating, I was worried he would pass out. If week 1 does not look any better, I will tend to conclude that his back is limiting his conditioning and his core strength. When a Dlineman lacks core strength, the first sign will always reveal itself in becoming easily winded when doing expected tasks against resistance.
Texansballer74
The Marine
JJ Watt will be ok.
My thoughts also...
X was expected to be a good LG, but coaching has emphasized his weaknesses instead of his strengths, imo. Nfl.com had nailed it in his draft profile
Link
could it be that he was over-amped aboiut his first true playing time?
yeah, I was like WTF? And then he replaced that disaster walking with another.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I wish I could make you feel better and say otherwise. But, that in no way could be explained by being hyped up............what I was observing (and I've watched it over and over again) were signs classically secondary to complete exhaustion...........most likely due to the factors I mentioned...............a very pathological response for such a short play time, especially for presurgical Watt.
Scooter
Funky
I remember the closeup and thought the same thing - Watt is always breathing hard as soon as he steps on the field. It didn't help that the entire line had to chase down Ginn on the first play (Clowney part of the eventual tackle I think). I'd like to have seen him get more reps to get into 'game shape', but I'm not worried in the least about his conditioning.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I was on board with Cam Robinson, but I would've liked Ethan Pocic next b/c of his versatility and was completely fine with Davenport. That's a pretty decent shot of talent to begin the OL upgrade with.
If I had my rathers...I would prefer to deal with the same type of 7 to 9 win season as long as the OL improved and the new talent was receiving a years worth of experience along the way versus coughing up what RS did to draft Watson who will more than likely carry a clipboard in the 2017 season.
One thing we should all know, if the OL proves to be the detriment this year, there will no no possibility of help arriving until the 2019 draft. I would think the money needed to sign the team's upcoming FA's would prevent a big splash in the 2018 FA market and with Cleveland owning the teams first 2 picks in 2018, that more than likely makes correcting the OL via the draft a little tough as well.
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I really didn't buy into Savage being competent going in. To me they almost had to make a move at QB if you didn't believe in Savage.
You are right , that pick was more about the future of the franchise than this season ... Its just frustrating watching a team with so much defensive talent right now play for tomorrow .... and give away tomorrows draft picks to do it.
Beathard might have been the most pro ready of the entire class .... especially falling into a WCO. Might not have the same upside as the others but has a high floor .
The draft strategy really comes down to - do you believe in Savage or don't ya. Obviously they didn't or they wouldn't have drafted his replacement.
Yeah but during that run they have had a QB that can run for his life , is accurate and doesn't compound mistakes .... they've also had a high quality running game and a defense that can take teams out of their comfort zone.
All the Texans have had is a defense .... they haven't had a QB who could do one of those things much less all of them and the coach keeps trying to fit a square peg into a round hole at RB.
I believe that Savage has the higher floor and brought in Watson for his hight ceiling
Yes. With Savage, it was always due to his internal clock and field vision combined. Those were reasons I didn't even want to draft him.
The hope with him is his work with the field vision goggle the last couple of years. If it really works, it would help him to improve his peripheral vision. By seeing more, he can progress through his read a bit quicker.
To me, it seems to work some.
The internal clock, I don't know. Maybe it improves with experience; maybe it improves too little to make a difference. We'll just have to wait and see.
Beathard doesn't have this problem, or at least not to the degree that I saw with Savage coming out of college. And he can really fit the football into tight windows playing against the best defensive schedule among the QBs drafted.
Scooter
Funky
My fear is that we got exposed before the season even started. Though he can get rid of the ball quickly(ish) and accurately(ish), I see Carr's best check-down game being our offense under Savage. A base rush will push both OT's into the QB's lap on almost every play, when Allan or XSF aren't beat at the snap. Add a 5th rusher and we're at the mercy of keeping a runningback in to block, hopefully. I'm also pretty sure that we showed our hand with the available routes to counter the blitz (not that O'B had much to begin with). We've run a LOT of slants and 3 yard drag routes to give the QB a quick target this preseason, and we're aware of O'B's talent for screen plays.
We cant block, and our route combinations are going to be squashed. If only we had an all-pro at the most important LT position to strengthen the entire group ... oh wait.
We cant block, and our route combinations are going to be squashed. If only we had an all-pro at the most important LT position to strengthen the entire group ... oh wait.
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Texian
Hall of Fame
As I recall it was a feast to famine kinda of deal. First rumors were Brian Ferentz was going to be OL Coach. I was ecstatic. About a week later we learn Ferentz is staying at Iowa. Then it is WTF, OB hires Paul Dunn fired OL Coach from Atlanta Falcons. Falcons OL was their weakest link and had been during Dunn's tenure. Dunn lasted 1 year with OB before getting fired.
rittenhouserobz
Veteran
I certainly hope this does not turn into a David Carr Debacle 2.0. I have to believe there are better plans in place this time.
You've been crying for five years that the Texans haven't drafted a QB.
I hope our coaches see what you see. Design routes to clear out the middle & get Foreman, Ellington & maybe even Hunt & Ervin one on one with someone. They have to make that one guy miss & produce a big gain. That may loosen up other areas for our offense.
Yesterday I watched a few snaps of the Skins/Bengals game. On this one drive, they got the ball to their change of pace back, & 39 several different ways & were able to march down the field.
They tossed it to him twice & he got around the right edge for nice chunks. Third play the ran him between the tackles & he gashed them as they were preparing for the toss. Then the ran play action with him & checked down to him for another big gain.
When teams see 39 in the regular season they're going to have to dial their defense back until they figure out how they're going to use him.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Please don't misunderstand me JB. I would never question Watts effort on the field. He went through a severe surgical procedure and I am only concerned about his recovery. I think he has done everything in his power to recover.
May take more than one year to heal, if ever. He is the face of our franchise, deservedly so.
Scooter
Funky
Watch the Texans
Yeah.
My point was the myriad of ways they got the ball to 39, how they set up the defense to get some room to work.
We should be doing things like that.
Scooter
Funky
........
I think we're saying the same thing.
Scooter
Funky
No, you're saying we should do something because study and experience suggests it would be an adaptation in our best interest. I'm saying our coaching staff is too incompetent to understand what you're saying we should do - let's politely call it inexperience and hubris.
Yeah... I'm saying the same thing. We should do something we most likely won't for the reasons you stated.
Since 2014,
But I believe that you pick your yr to take your QB and fix the rest of the team until then. You dont force a QB pick and get him killed. When you do that you set your franchise back by atleast 5 yrs. (See Carr)
Again, Carr is Carr, Luck is Luck. Luck didn't come into a great OL situation & though they tried, the Colts weren't able to fix it before having to pay Luck.
I think you draft QBs based on how you as a team feel about him. You get a guy like Luck, everybody will probably feel good about him, a guy like Goff... some teams fell in love with him. Watson is more like that. We may have been the only team to fall in love with him, but he was the one. I'd rather they fall in love with a guy, go get him & figure out the rest, instead of taking a guy who grades well, just because he grades well.
We don't have the worse OL in the league, not even close. There's work to do, but a good coach/QB should be able to manage. The Texans don't appear to be rushing Watson out there (contrary to what I originally believed) so we'll see how it works out.
StellB you are reminding me more and more of Sissy Spacek as Carrie in Carrie when she had her first period, you know the scene in the shower stall, she didn't know what to do and freaked out. Settle down, give the year a chance to begin to play out awhile, atleast wait until the season opener has been played then lets see what we've got then.
Texian
Hall of Fame
There is reason for concern. Before his injury/surgery Watt was flipping 1000 LB. tire 67 times a day (may be what led to his injury). Can he flip the same tire one time today. If not, how will that effect his play on the field? Early results are inconclusive.Please don't misunderstand me JB. I would never question Watts effort on the field. He went through a severe surgical procedure and I am only concerned about his recovery. I think he has done everything in his power to recover.
May take more than one year to heal, if ever. He is the face of our franchise, deservedly so.
I think we're saying the offensive genius got fired and we got stuck with the offensive .... idiot.
I really don't care at this point.
I just lol at how the Texans organization is being run. I actually find it quite interesting to see the other side of things. How they think after the same bs year after year.
Would I like to have a true contending team, Sure. I've come to except that this will never happen with Bob/Ricky McNair in charge unless they change the way they go about acquiring talent.
Scooter
Funky
I would love to support your posts Steel, but you adamantly agreed with removing the coaching staff who did everything you want. Build a top tier line on offense and defense, key on grabbing defensive skill players, and coach the sh!t out of low round talent. Yet, you completely support the coaching staff that does everything against your wisdom. Build a fast and stupid team that is desperately held together by the defensive staff and the previous regime's coaching.
Number19
Hall of Fame
No, because our QB wouldn't be drafted until 2018. Drafting OL, any mid round QB we drafted this year would not have had the expectations of a high selection. There would undoubtably have been differences of opinion but relatively minor in nature.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
For all of you who wanted Cam Robinson in the draft.. Jag fans haven't been pleased with his play at all and if you listen to them talk about their line as a whole it sounds worse than ours so the grass isn't always greener on the other side. This past draft was one of the worst offensive lineman drafts in recent memory..if they really wanted to upgrade it, probably should of been more active in free agency, the draft simply didn't supply a lot of solutions.
I thought you had season tickets ?
And Saints rookie OT Ryan Ramczyk as C&D warned those who wanted him the guy is already having injury issues in NOLA.
And I dunno how Garrett Bolles is doing, another risky rook OT prospect, it just wasn't a good year for drafting offensive tackles. Ricky probably played it right in terms of his strategy for drafting tackles went this year with Davenport.
Flipping the tire probably did contribute to his back injury. I mentioned this when he first got hurt. Too many athletes like to do stuff because it looks cool/hardcore. Fortunately it has nothing to do with his ability to play FB. If the surgically repaired area holds up, I think JJ will still be a high level player. They just need to be smart about how they use him.
badboy
Hall of Fame
yeah hate to see those guys having issues but so far Davenport is on field and learning. We also should be able to get good candidates at OT and QB with our two third round picks 2018. Probably going to add Wide Receiver to my mock draft
Texian
Hall of Fame
I find it hard to believe that if you're considerably less strong in your legs and your core than when you were at your peak winning multiple DPOY trophies that you can perform at that same high level. Watt has played, what, less than 20 plays this preseason and has not shown that former dominance. There have been to many plays where he has been dominated and even face planted a couple of times.
Flipping a tire, especially for someone JJ's height, is a range of motion issue. He has to bend so low to grab the tire off the ground he has to round his back. This is a mechanism for spinal injury, forward flexion under load. When he is bent that far forward he is lifting the tire initially with his low back - not good at all. In football, unless he wanted to lift an OT off the ground by the bottom of his foot, he doesn't need to get that low.
Strength and power is very important, and he can still develop very high levels of strength in legs and core while training in proper ranges of motion. Given his work ethic, I think JJ will be just fine
Strength and power is very important, and he can still develop very high levels of strength in legs and core while training in proper ranges of motion. Given his work ethic, I think JJ will be just fine
Whether he did or didn't, it looks like he had a plan in a weak OT draft that made sense. Sure, the other guys are probably better prospects right now than Davenport, but coach him up, put him in the weight room how much longer will that be true?
I do.
The Jags tickets are for sale.
4 of them.
PM me if you're interested in going to the game.
Not what I've seen and I've watched 2 jags preseason games. He looks like a talented OT. Still makes rookie mistakes but is improving. Dawkins is looking pretty solid too.
I truly wish Cam Robinson the best. I'm just glad the Texans drafted a QB they believe in.
They didn't draft the QB I wanted .... I even stated at one time that I wouldn't draft Watson at all. Hated his inaccuracy and the fact that he was only reading one read or one side of the field , that doesn't work in the NFL.
I wanted Mahomes and if not available Beathard much later in the draft.
If you went the Beathard route you were able to pick up a top tier OL talent and a QB with a very high floor .... Looking at how things have transpired since the draft , the coaching staff being adamant that Savage is the man , it seems to me that would be the better route for a team that likes to think of itself as a contender - fix that disaster of an OL and protect your QB that you tell us you believe in.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
That's fair argument. O'Brian must have signed off on Watson over Mahomes and that was general consensus for Rick to move forward with really a steal (agree or not with prospect) to move up that far on board.
Think there was a real sense of urgency to address QB position with best available talent based on their board.
I don't know about that - cant say that they liked one or the other more because they only had a shot at one of them , never had a choice to make between them. All we can do is speculate on that ....
I do believe you are correct that they felt a sense of urgency at the position and took what they thought to be the highest ceiling guy available to them ...
That being said , with their sense of urgency .... how did they really feel about going forward with Savage ?! If they truly believed in him , would they have had such a sense of urgency ?!
That's what I mean when I say I trust their actions, not their words.