2017 Houston Texans Official OTA's, Minicamp, and Training Camp Thread

[bah007]

The goal should always be to get your best 11 on the field if you can. That's not always possible but there are ways to work around it, depending on your personnel.

KJo has clearly become the #2 CB when healthy. Traditional thinking would say that Kareem is now the #3 CB and thus not a starter anymore. But NFL defenses cannot be too traditional anymore because of the scale of the passing game they are required to defend each week. I'd still call Kareem one of our top 11 defenders. There has to be a way to get him snaps.

I could certainly see a scenario where Kareem is your starting SS in base defense (job responsibilities really aren't hugely different than a Nickel corner in today's league). Hal and Moore could rotate in at FS. I think Hal is a better coverage man but Moore has more deep range.

When we go nickel, Kareem can come down to the slot and I'd put Hal at SS and Moore at FS. I think Drummond could also situationally play some FS for us.

 

[Perki-Perk]

It sort of strikes me funny that in past years fans in Houston were able to attend on average ~7 open practices during TC. This year, 15 will have been open...........at The Greenbrier............and only 2 for the loyal fans in Houston...............

It is logical. The amount of fans that will show up at the 15 is most likely still much less than the rabid amount of Houston fans that show up at the 7.

 

[TexansBull]

The goal should always be to get your best 11 on the field if you can. That's not always possible but there are ways to work around it, depending on your personnel.

KJo has clearly become the #2 CB when healthy. Traditional thinking would say that Kareem is now the #3 CB and thus not a starter anymore. But NFL defenses cannot be too traditional anymore because of the scale of the passing game they are required to defend each week. I'd still call Kareem one of our top 11 defenders. There has to be a way to get him snaps.

I could certainly see a scenario where Kareem is your starting SS in base defense (job responsibilities really aren't hugely different than a Nickel corner in today's league). Hal and Moore could rotate in at FS. I think Hal is a better coverage man but Moore has more deep range.

When we go nickel, Kareem can come down to the slot and I'd put Hal at SS and Moore at FS. I think Drummond could also situationally play some FS for us.

Johnathan Joseph is still the number one? Or are KJo and JJo interchangeably 1 and 2.

 

[TxnsJuggernaut]

Didn't that happen to Kaepernick? Teams figured him out and shut him down? Not saying he is the next Kaepernick.

Despite Kaepernick not being on a team at this time I think he is better than many want to give him credit for. He did not do all that bad when he was called to start for the 49ers last season.

Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2016 San Francisco 49ers 12 331 196 59.2 27.6 2,241 6.8 186.8 16 4.8 4 1.2 65T 25 5 36 207 90.7 Not too bad and better a lot of other Qb's with multiple starts.

He is and was better than at least half to close to half the starting Qb's now starting. His political stance be damned. He deserves to be on a team in the NFL as at least a second string Qb.


Agent's Take: Colin Kaepernick leads 10 notable NFL veterans still available
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...eads-10-notable-nfl-veterans-still-available/

It's hard to deny that Kaepernick's refusal to stand for the national anthem before games last season to protest racial injustice is primarily responsible for him not being on an NFL roster. Because of a steady decline over the last couple of seasons, Kaepernick probably wasn't going to find a team willing to make him a starter if his social activism wasn't a part of the equation. But he is considerably better than numerous quarterbacks that have found opportunities to be backups this year, regardless of his political stances.
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On a side note it is inevitable teams will figure out whomever our starting Qb is and adjust. Can our coaching staff and Qb overcome that? I have faith that we will be fine at Qb no matter who starts. However I do think it is best for DW to be eased into the starting job. I hate to see his confidence shaken because we started him early behind a suspect O-line. Too many Qb careers ended because they had to shoulder too much of the burden before they could truly process the right info and the game could slow down for them.

 

[infantrycak]

Johnathan Joseph is still the number one? Or are KJo and JJo interchangeably 1 and 2.

Let's call them interchangeable. J Jo is like elder Aaron Glenn. He's a savvy vet who talks to the refs. Little bit of hand on the wrist, occasional hip check, he gets a pass.

 

[TexansBull]

Let's call them interchangeable. J Jo is like elder Aaron Glenn. He's a savvy vet who talks to the refs. Little bit of hand on the wrist, occasional hip check, he gets a pass.

I had to check their ages. Glenn played with the Texans through age 33 when he was released. (he went on to play elsewhere) JJo is 33.

 

[TexansBull]

Despite Kaepernick not being on a team at this time I think he is better than many want to give him credit for. He did not do all that bad when he was called to start for the 49ers last season.

Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2016 San Francisco 49ers 12 331 196 59.2 27.6 2,241 6.8 186.8 16 4.8 4 1.2 65T 25 5 36 207 90.7 Not too bad and better a lot of other Qb's with multiple starts.

He is and was better than at least half to close to half the starting Qb's now starting. His political stance be damned. He deserves to be on a team in the NFL as at least a second string Qb.


Agent's Take: Colin Kaepernick leads 10 notable NFL veterans still available
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...eads-10-notable-nfl-veterans-still-available/

It's hard to deny that Kaepernick's refusal to stand for the national anthem before games last season to protest racial injustice is primarily responsible for him not being on an NFL roster. Because of a steady decline over the last couple of seasons, Kaepernick probably wasn't going to find a team willing to make him a starter if his social activism wasn't a part of the equation. But he is considerably better than numerous quarterbacks that have found opportunities to be backups this year, regardless of his political stances.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a side note it is inevitable teams will figure out whomever our starting Qb is and adjust. Can our coaching staff and Qb overcome that? I have faith that we will be fine at Qb no matter who starts. However I do think it is best for DW to be eased into the starting job. That of coarse would depend on Savage and how good he plays.

Thanks for the info.

I wonder if Jacksonville is going to give him a call. Bottles is having a rough career at QB.

 

[TxnsJuggernaut]

Thanks for the info.

I wonder if Jacksonville is going to give him a call. Bottles is having a rough career at QB.

At some point owners and GM's are going to have to put politics aside and call him up as the best option available.

 

[TxnsJuggernaut]

Hopefully, he doesn't try to start Watson too soon.....and later find him dancing ON his head.

Dak had the luxury of playing behind one of the best O-lines if not the best O-line in the NFL. I am sure at some point DW may be the best option at the Qb position but I think he needs time to get to the point where he can at least have some success behind the O-line as it is.

There is a history of Qb's flaming out due to being expected to carry teams before those teams had the talent necessary for their success. Namely the talent on the O-lines.

 

[infantrycak]

I had to check their ages. Glenn played with the Texans through age 33 when he was released. (he went on to play elsewhere) JJo is 33.

In all honesty Aaron got away with a lot. But he talked to the refs before every game. And he taught AJ to do the same.

Look back at some game tape, AJ would point to the ref, 'I'm good right?'

After a play, "ok so maybe I hit him a little.'

Random cute AJ , yeah it was funny. Duane Brown hauling Innegan out of the pile was funny too. 'You don't want to f'k with AJ. You sure as hell don't want to f'k with me.'

 

[TexansBull]

It worries me that John McClain is gushing over Watson so much...

 

[TexansBull]

When Watson is as proficient at running the offense as Savage that is when it is Watsons job.

As of right now, if Savage was making mistakes we would hear about it. Because it is so silent on the reporting on Savage leads me to believe Savage is still doing better and Watson is still playing catch up.

Clocks ticking though.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

patrick‏Verified account@PatDStat 5h5 hours ago

There is nothing the team is doing indicating Watson will start. When that changes then so will my thoughts on it.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

From what I know....most teams have 1st team O vs 2nd team D. Then 1st team D vs 2nd team O.

That's during the season.

During camp it's usually 1st team against first team.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

patrick‏Verified account@PatDStat 5h5 hours ago

There is nothing the team is doing indicating Watson will start. When that changes then so will my thoughts on it.

I didn't really believe it at first, but I'm starting to think patdstat should not be taken seriously.

 

[TexansBull]

I didn't really believe it at first, but I'm starting to think patdstat should not be taken seriously.

Why?

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

Why?

Because out of all the reports he's the only one that sounds like Bill O's mouth piece.

I take all of them with a grain of salt anyways, but pat seems to be out on the fringe with some of his qb takes.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Adam Wexler‏@awexlerKPRC 57m57 minutes ago

Brady catching up w/ O'Brien after today's practice. Brady said he & O'Brien were so close. Said "I love hanging w/ Billy." #Texans @KPRC2

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Brady talking about O'Brien

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

The Pats are already thin at DE..............their 83rd pick in this year's draft Derek Rivers was reported to have gone down in a kickoff drill. The trainer was checking the knee and back of his leg before he walked off on his own. From what they were looking at, hard to tell, but could be anything from a calf injury to a PCL or ACL sprain.

 

[TexansBull]

Because out of all the reports he's the only one that sounds like Bill O's mouth piece.

I take all of them with a grain of salt anyways, but pat seems to be out on the fringe with some of his qb takes.

I feel the same way about McClain and his Watson coverage starting with comparing Watson to Moon. Maybe McClain works for Smith...

 

[BigBull]

Tom Brady's thoughts on Watson.https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1456417464451604&id=119082641518433


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

I feel the same way about McClain and his Watson coverage starting with comparing Watson to Moon. Maybe McClain works for Smith...

McClain stated earlier that there was no way Watson would start the season. I have no idea what the issue was with McClain saying Watson reminded him of NFL rookie Moon. On the other hand you have Pat coming out and pretty much admitting that the team controls his thought process. If I just want to hear what the teams wants us to think I can just listen to OB.

The media has a lot of faults, but dang...at least give us some opinions to keep it interesting. Just parroting what OB wants to be out there is boring.

 

[TexansBull]

McClain stated earlier that there was no way Watson would start the season. I have no idea what the issue was with McClain saying Watson reminded him of NFL rookie Moon. On the other hand you have Pat coming out and pretty much admitting that the team controls his thought process. If I just want to hear what the teams wants us to think I can just listen to OB.

The media has a lot of faults, but dang...at least give us some opinions to keep it interesting. Just parroting what OB wants to be out there is boring.

I really don't want to stir up the whole Watson Moon thing and just say in my opinion politely it was odd and a reach.

I have found McClain to be an agent of disinformation and propaganda for the Texans. Most of the time unknowingly which is the funny part.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

An excellent "round table" discussion of Deshaun Watson vs Tom Savage by Sports Illustrated:


Houston Texans: Should Tom Savage or Deshaun Watson Be the Starting Quarterback?

 

[TexansBull]

McClain stated earlier that there was no way Watson would start the season. I have no idea what the issue was with McClain saying Watson reminded him of NFL rookie Moon. On the other hand you have Pat coming out and pretty much admitting that the team controls his thought process. If I just want to hear what the teams wants us to think I can just listen to OB.

The media has a lot of faults, but dang...at least give us some opinions to keep it interesting. Just parroting what OB wants to be out there is boring.

In CND's link below (or above)the first thing Pat says is her true to stay away from OB so it doesn't sway his opinion.

 

[Brisco_County]

McClain stated earlier that there was no way Watson would start the season. I have no idea what the issue was with McClain saying Watson reminded him of NFL rookie Moon. On the other hand you have Pat coming out and pretty much admitting that the team controls his thought process. If I just want to hear what the teams wants us to think I can just listen to OB.

The media has a lot of faults, but dang...at least give us some opinions to keep it interesting. Just parroting what OB wants to be out there is boring.

I think this was just another example of clumsy language that Starr is prone to. He writes his articles and tweets hastily. It appears what he meant was, "There is nothing to indicate Watson will start, and that will be my position until there is reliable evidence to indicate otherwise." It was probably written as a reaction to being asked about it every single day.

 

[Lucky]

I really don't want to stir up the whole Watson Moon thing and just say in my opinion politely it was odd and a reach.

I don't see the playing style that similar. But both give off a calm, collective, understated personality. Maybe that's what he was going for.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

I don't see the playing style that similar. But both give off a calm, collective, understated personality. Maybe that's what he was going for.

That's the way I took it.

I mean...There's really not much stylistically from a playing perspective that could be compared at this point.

I didn't think he was comparing him in the sense that he was saying this guy is the next Warren Moon on the field.

At least, that's just the way I took it.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Understated personality I can accept. Moon had a canon for an arm........one long pass could change the direction of the game..........not something that I would ever expect from Watson.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Julian Edelman credits Wes Welker for inventing his position
August 16, 2017, 6:13 PM EDT

Patriots receiver Julian Edelman does many of the same things in New England’s offense that Wes Welker did from 2007 to 2012. And Edelman says that if not for Welker, Edelman may never have gotten the chance.

Edelman, who played four seasons with Welker, spent time with Welker again this week because the Patriots and Texans had joint practices and Welker is now a Texans assistant coach. Edelman said he thinks the players in Houston are lucky to have a guy like Welker to learn from.

“Wes is such a smart, intelligent football player,” Edelman said. “He played a lot of years. He’s a grinder, meaning he earned everything he got. He didn’t start on third. He had have a long journey to being ultimately a revolutionary player who basically created a position.”

Edelman isn’t surprised that Welker went straight from the field to coaching.

“Being in the locker room with him for so many years and being able to pick his brains and to see how just from how he practiced and how he played, it doesn’t surprise me at all,” Edelman said. “He was such a student of the game. He knew just about everything so it was one of those things being a coach, you know it’s a grind, it’s a huge thing, but he’s a football guy. He loves the sport.”

 

[Uncle Rico]

I don't see anything similar other than skin tone when comparing Moon and Watson. Completely different players

Tom Brady had some real nice things to say about Deshaun and he's the GOAT soooo...

 

[edromeo]

I could be wrong but I see that set up during the season not really training camp. Your backups act as the other team and run their plays and your starters practice their plays. Training camp is best vs best.

*shrugs* i know with certainty from attending the Ravens, Redskins and Mike Smith Falcons that they usually did 1st team O vs 2nd team D. Occasionally they'll go 1s v 1s. But it's not the norm.

Teams also do the same for scrimmages (with certainty in addition to the team's above the Browns and Seahawks conduct their scrimmages as I've mentioned)

I don't know how the Texans do it. But I would be surprised if they did it differently.

it would be a good question for a reporter to answer

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Texans J.J. Watt is Wiser and Listening More in 2017
J.J. Watt is being wise and listening to the Houston Texans plan for him leading up to the season.

• Patrick Starr - 3 hours ago

The big picture for the Houston Texans is to get J.J. Watt to the regular season in one piece and have him playing in every game for the regular season. The Texans have monitored Watt while worked throughout training camp, letting him work on the side and limiting how much he practices with the team. They are being smart with him coming off of the back injury which cut his 2016 season short.

Watt made his name with his rigorous, well-documented off-season work which was intense and carried over to game days where he would dominate on the field. With a smarter routine in the off-season these days, Watt is working smarter to protect himself and avoid putting himself at risk during the season.

"The coaching staff has a good plan in place. The trainers have a good plan in place,” Watt explained of his schedule during training camp. “We’ve had great success with it so far leading up to this point, and we’re going to continue it down the road. It’s not necessarily any less work, it’s just smarter. Trying to make sure we do it the smartest way possible because as I grow, I understand that it’s all about 16 Sundays and then beyond that, so I just need to be ready for those.” THE REST OF THE STORY

 

[mussop]

I watched moon at Edmonton alot and I agree with pancakes on this one. Moon was a very good roll out passer. Todays Watson and a ROOKIE Moon had a lot of similarities in their strengths and style.

 

[kiwitexansfan]

Glad to hear JJ is taking advice on his workouts.

 

[JB]

I watched moon at Edmonton alot and I agree with pancakes on this one. Moon was a very good roll out passer. Todays Watson and a ROOKIE Moon had a lot of similarities in their strengths and style.

I think Watson is a bit smarter and more of a 'gamer' but yeah if you're talking rookie in the CFL Moon

 

[TheMatrix31]

Does the coaching staff and trainers' plan include being left in a playoff game where you're down by 30 only to re-aggravate your already-serious injuries, requiring you to have major surgery in the offseason, JJ?

 

[EVOLVIST]

When talking about a black quarterback, why is it always comparing him to another black QB? Or a white receiver being compared to other white receivers? The same for running backs.

All the NFL needs now is an all-pro Mexican tackle and they'll bust out with the Anthony Munoz rap.

I'm not accusing anybody here of anything; still, doesn't this get a little old?

 

[mussop]

I think Watson is a bit smarter and more of a 'gamer' but yeah if you're talking rookie in the CFL Moon

Not sure how your quantifying "smarter" and "gamer". Moons rookie year he was coming off five straight grey cup appearances and was the first QB to pass for 5000 yards.

 

[mussop]

When talking about a black quarterback, why is it always comparing him to another black QB? Or a white receiver being compared to other white receivers? The same for running backs.

All the NFL needs now is an all-pro Mexican tackle and they'll bust out with the Anthony Munoz rap.

I'm not accusing anybody here of anything; still, doesn't this get a little old?

In this case it's pretty accurate IMO.

 

[IDEXAN]

“There are so many good players out there on that field,” Brady said of the Texans. “They were the first-ranked defense in the league last year. It’s just tough to move the ball.


“It’s just good getting in some real competitive work. They made their fair share of plays. We made our fair share, so it was a fun couple of days.”

Brady completed 32-of-51 passes (62.7 percent) during the two days at the Greenbrier, which was a dip from his 70 percent completion rate throughout the 15-practice camp. It was a testament to the Texans’ stifling coverage, thanks to cornerback Kevin Johnson, taking the spot of free agent departure A.J.
Brady completed 32-of-51 passes (62.7 percent) during the two days at the Greenbrier, which was a dip from his 70 percent completion rate throughout the 15-practice camp. It was a testament to the Texans’ stifling coverage, thanks to cornerback Kevin Johnson, taking the spot of free agent departure A.J. Bouye, along with Johnathan Joseph and Jackson. The safeties and linebackers, especially Benardrick McKinney, also were particularly problematic.

The Texans combined to break up eight of Brady’s passes during the two workouts, and tight end Rob Gronkowski (twice), slot receiver Danny Amendola (twice), Edelman and Cooks were among the victims of the great coverage. Plus, defensive end Whitney Mercilus beat Cameron Fleming for three sacks and another time to pressure Brady into a throwaway

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http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...e_tested_but_satisfied_after_time_with_texans
&&&

 

[IDEXAN]

“There are so many good players out there on that field,” Brady said of the Texans. “They were the first-ranked defense in the league last year. It’s just tough to move the ball.


“It’s just good getting in some real competitive work. They made their fair share of plays. We made our fair share, so it was a fun couple of days.”

Brady completed 32-of-51 passes (62.7 percent) during the two days at the Greenbrier, which was a dip from his 70 percent completion rate throughout the 15-practice camp. It was a testament to the Texans’ stifling coverage, thanks to cornerback Kevin Johnson, taking the spot of free agent departure A.J.
Brady completed 32-of-51 passes (62.7 percent) during the two days at the Greenbrier, which was a dip from his 70 percent completion rate throughout the 15-practice camp. It was a testament to the Texans’ stifling coverage, thanks to cornerback Kevin Johnson, taking the spot of free agent departure A.J. Bouye, along with Johnathan Joseph and Jackson. The safeties and linebackers, especially Benardrick McKinney, also were particularly problematic.

The Texans combined to break up eight of Brady’s passes during the two workouts, and tight end Rob Gronkowski (twice), slot receiver Danny Amendola (twice), Edelman and Cooks were among the victims of the great coverage. Plus, defensive end Whitney Mercilus beat Cameron Fleming for three sacks and another time to pressure Brady into a throwaway
&&
The Texans proved this week they’ll still be a defensive force without Bouye or defensive tackle Vince Wilfork. Defensive lineman J.J. Watt also is back after missing the teams’ playoff meeting, and defensive end Jadeveon Clowney didn’t practice this week but must show that he can be consistently reliable across from Mercilus.



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http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...e_tested_but_satisfied_after_time_with_texans
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Any reports of Clowney being injured this week ?

 

[PapaL]

24 observations from #TexansCamp: Day 16
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...p-Day-16/fbb7e510-f92e-4b5b-982e-d9d105805461

 

[Lucky]

I watched moon at Edmonton alot and I agree with pancakes on this one. Moon was a very good roll out passer. Todays Watson and a ROOKIE Moon had a lot of similarities in their strengths and style.

Right, Moon's bread and butter at Washington was the rollout. More of a pocket passer in the NFL, 5 years later. Watson will likely have a similar progression.

 

[TheRealJoker]

“There are so many good players out there on that field,” Brady said of the Texans. “They were the first-ranked defense in the league last year. It’s just tough to move the ball.


“It’s just good getting in some real competitive work. They made their fair share of plays. We made our fair share, so it was a fun couple of days.”

Brady completed 32-of-51 passes (62.7 percent) during the two days at the Greenbrier, which was a dip from his 70 percent completion rate throughout the 15-practice camp. It was a testament to the Texans’ stifling coverage, thanks to cornerback Kevin Johnson, taking the spot of free agent departure A.J.
Brady completed 32-of-51 passes (62.7 percent) during the two days at the Greenbrier, which was a dip from his 70 percent completion rate throughout the 15-practice camp. It was a testament to the Texans’ stifling coverage, thanks to cornerback Kevin Johnson, taking the spot of free agent departure A.J. Bouye, along with Johnathan Joseph and Jackson. The safeties and linebackers, especially Benardrick McKinney, also were particularly problematic.

The Texans combined to break up eight of Brady’s passes during the two workouts, and tight end Rob Gronkowski (twice), slot receiver Danny Amendola (twice), Edelman and Cooks were among the victims of the great coverage. Plus, defensive end Whitney Mercilus beat Cameron Fleming for three sacks and another time to pressure Brady into a throwaway
&&
The Texans proved this week they’ll still be a defensive force without Bouye or defensive tackle Vince Wilfork. Defensive lineman J.J. Watt also is back after missing the teams’ playoff meeting, and defensive end Jadeveon Clowney didn’t practice this week but must show that he can be consistently reliable across from Mercilus.



&&&
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...e_tested_but_satisfied_after_time_with_texans
&&&
Any reports of Clowney being injured this week ?

They go on to say in the article how the Pats got the better of the Texans D. But holding Brady to 62.7 percent passing when they aren't allowed to hit him?! That's very encouraging for this defense!

I too am anxiously awaiting Clowney's injury status.

 

[JB]

Not sure how your quantifying "smarter" and "gamer". Moons rookie year he was coming off five straight grey cup appearances and was the first QB to pass for 5000 yards.

That's why I said rookie in the CFL Moon. He was not nearly the player that he was when he got to the Oilers

 

[PapaL]

More thoughts in link...

Seth Payne’s Thoughts & Observations Texans/Patriots Day 2
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/08/16/seth-paynes-thoughts-observations-texanspatriots-day-2/

Speaking of D’Onta, I have enjoyed watching him return kicks. He’s not nearly the speediest or the shiftiest of the potential returners, but he doesn’t dick around. He picks his route and he gets to gettin’. Since I spend most of my Sundays screaming for a Texans returner to do just that, I’d like to see him get a shot at the job.

Watson threw a long and high, arching pass to Justin Hardee in the corner of the end zone. It looked to be well placed, but Hardee couldn’t come down with it. My concerns about Watson’s arm strength and deep ball accuracy are rapidly dissipating, like the crowd around a singer at a coffee shop who starts in with the political rants.

Julien Davenport took some reps with the first team offense today. Sometimes it looked great, sometimes it looked passable, and sometimes it looked like Duane Brown needs a new contract. Davenport is way stronger than I thought he’d be, but he gets caught off balance like most rookies do. There’s still time for him to develop, but I’m skeptical that he’ll get there by Week 1. Definitely making the team, though. Much upside.

Watson also laced a beautiful, high pass to Ryan Griffin in the end zone that had to pass through a pretty tight window to get there. Watson was under duress when he threw it, but the pass had just the right combination of velocity and loft. I’m trying really hard skeptical asshole about this kid….but mercy.

 

[mussop]

That's why I said rookie in the CFL Moon. He was not nearly the player that he was when he got to the Oilers

The hell he wasn't. You must not have watched any of his games at Edmonton. his specialty was rolling out hitting guys on the Run. He was probably the best roll-out quarterback in all of football at the time he came to the Oilers.

He wasn't coached to be a pocket passer until he got here. I always thought it was stupid that they took the best part of his game away from him.

 

[TexansBull]

That's why I said rookie in the CFL Moon. He was not nearly the player that he was when he got to the Oilers

I will defer judgement to those who actually saw the rookie CFL Moon.

But to those of us that didn't - it understandably looked at first like a reach.