We're basically just adding Martin, who will be a rookie.
I can't be too excited when the rest is the same. And Duane is holding out plus getting older.
On Jeff Allen being in shape this year, I'll believe it when I see it.
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2017 Houston Texans Official OTA's, Minicamp, and Training Camp Thread
- Thread starter corytx8
- Start date
We're basically just adding Martin, who will be a rookie.
I can't be too excited when the rest is the same. And Duane is holding out plus getting older.
On Jeff Allen being in shape this year, I'll believe it when I see it.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This is a 3 year old ProFootballFocus article, but it's one that may make you rethink your argument. The article and the included detailed charts are worthwhile reading in total.
QBs in Focus: Pass Depth
Steve Palazzolo shows the league's best and worst when QB performance is sorted out by target depth.
• Not only did Peyton Manning lead the way with 353 passes between 1-10 yards, but he also set the pace with a +16.4 grade and a 113.5 rating.
• Tom Brady ranked second in both number of passes between 1-10 yards (324) and grade at +12.3. His 4.0 YAC per completion was below the league average, however, going against the perception that his receivers are often the best after the catch.
• Two Texans find themselves at the bottom of this list in Matt Schaub and Case Keenum. It goes against conventional wisdom to see Keenum struggle with the short stuff and excel throwing down the field, but that’s just what he did in 2013.
• Andy Dalton is also known as a quarterback that works better throwing the ball underneath but his -5.6 grade was sixth-worst in the league while throwing a league-high 11 interceptions.
• The Packers emphasized the quick passing game last season and Aaron Rodgers led the league in success percentage (57.0%), Accuracy Percentage (86.8%), completion percentage (80.7%) and yards per attempt (8.1). He also had the lowest average time to throw at 1.98 seconds. THE REST OF THE STORY
Don't we though ?!
We saw him in multiple games and the same problems plagued the offense with Savage under center as did The Blundering Wizard of Oz - They couldn't score Touchdowns.
He wasn't the answer. He just wasn't as suck as Oz.
I'm not saying he had to be great during his multiple short opportunities , just hat he had to show he was capable of putting the ball in paydirt - His 0 career TD's over 5 games and 92 attempts are somewhat telling.
That's why they went out and got Watson .... and he's a guy NONE of us thought we would have a shot at getting when he was playing either of those champeenship games against Bama. He was the QB we all dreamed about .... (Then I started watching Mahomes).
Well Savage also had zero interceptions, completed 63% of his passes and posted an 80+ qbrating
That's not great, but it's not suck behind a suspect offensive line and mediocre scheme
Just like I said , he wasn't as suck as Oz but still suck.
He wasn't the answer to the problem of scoring 3's instead of 6's .... That's why they made the move to sign Watson.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Yes, that is all one has to work with.
Like I said earlier, there seems to be some that truly believe in Savage or give him better odds to succeed and hold onto the job than others.
I don't see that happening for a few different reasons but if it happens great. Nothing to do but sit back and watch at this point.
Number19
Hall of Fame
This is just speculation, but Savage started two games last year, meaning that for his previous three years, he's had two weeks with the first string.
Reports out of OTA's says he is getting the bulk of the snaps with the first string. This should have a positive impact on his ability to score.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Before that, he would essentially not have practiced with the 1st string...........and he has never had a full preseason to prepare with the 1st string. As poor quality as much of the offensive support cast has been in the recent past, with admittedly extremely poor depth, I can only imagine how poor the backup QB cast he had to work with and against was. Superior competition level is important to elevate your skills. The old saying in sports is that when you are playing with poor support and competition, it's easy to be dragged down to that level.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Brown is not a holdout. OTA's are voluntary and there is really not a good reason for a seasoned vet like Brown to be there. On the positive side, it does give other players reps at the position.
If he fails to show for the mandatory mini-camp this week, he'll be a holdout and fined.
Texas Jake
Rookie
The sample size is too small to come to any definite conclussions on TS. In the limited play last year I saw enough to believe there is hope. But two games can be decieving. It can lead to false conclusions in either direction. I am eager to see what he does as the starter and am mildly optimistic. If he can stay on the field he could turnout to be a fairly good QB.
I don't want to see Watson start this year. I believe it is better for a rookie QB to sit the first year. I started watching the NFL in 1978. At that time, few HC's would start a rookie at QB. That mentality didn't change until the 90s. I still think there is merit to that line of thinking and wonder how many good QB prospects have been ruined by being thrown to the lions (or Bears) before they were ready.
Yep, but the point is the boardroom at various points thought Osweiler and Mallet were the answer.
Texas Jake
Rookie
I could care less what the boardroom thinks, what matters is what takes place on the field.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Over the years, I have heard every reason/excuse for veterans not needing to be there for OTAs. But speaking to some vets since the new CBA, although they do not like having to go through the extra work during this period, they also feel there is benefit to everyone being together for these activities. In Brown's case, it's not like the OL last year was a fine oiled machine. It was in flux throughout the season, even the LG position next to him was not solidified. We have a "new" QB who will depend on the OL working in concert. The presence of a vet LT in the atmosphere of severely constricted reps is important, not only for his notable knowledge of technique and timing, but also for his ability to help guide others through a very shortened practice period (max 2 hours/day, as opposed to preCBA unlimited all day all night as the coaches deemed necessary). If you know the extensive and extremely strenuous and stressful Offseason/Preseason full-contact activities that players were put through in the preCBA days, you could understand why they might want to find reasons to skip at least parts of these (but they were fined for doing so unexcused from the beginning). Today, with the pussified structure of these non-contact activities, everyone being present together remains important, and missing them with the excuse of wanting to "save their bodies" is almost laughable.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
OB is on the board.
Great entry C&D, I enjoyed your knowledge and insight with your remarks in that post.
I've heard the stories about way back in the day with the old Oilers in Houston how they went to San Angelo for fully-padded, full-contact two-a-days with intrasquad scrimmges
daily. Man that had to be some tough stuff. More recently it ain't no picnic in the August heat and humidity of Houston with the Texans, but certainly not the hell-hole that the old Oilers went thru for their TC back in the day.
Anyway are the Texans that you have contact with grateful for this switch to Greenbrier for their TC ? I've actually spent 4 years working and living in WV but in the northern part of the state in Charleston and they had some hot weather but their worst July-August days are more like May in Houston and I think Greenbrier county has some elevation so it maybe is even more comfortable in the summer.
The main reason to move TC was to induce other NFL teams to agree to visit for intersquad traning that wasn't in Houstons extreme summer weather ? Have I got that right ?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
First of all, thanks for the kind words.
The main reason for the move is indeed the weather. The players have always complained about the heat and humidity beating them down and it contributing to increased number of soft tissue injuries. Houston in end of July-August averages ~95 degrees, compared to ~82 WVa. Furthermore, the Wva facility, besides having full weight training and meeting room amenities, has 3 full fields to practice on.............most importantly 2 are grass fields. I haven't heard that intersquad training has been much of a factor in the decision, as it would be much easier and cheaper for McNair to fly his team half way around the world to practice with any team of choice. And as for the move being made to try to minimize player distractions?.................well, that would be a hard pill to swallow after reading a description of the White Sulfur Springs facility:
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Texansballer74
The Marine
And not Savage. What you say. Then this board room went up to 12 from 25 to snatch up the best QB in.the 2017 draft.
Savage will show them the reason why they should've looked his way. Hopefully he can stay healthy.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
August football in Texas stinks . I remember how excited and energized we'd get when it rained and cooled things down . I'm glad the Texans are worried less about marketing and more about football .
I don't know if they thought Osweiler or Mallett were the answer. They most likely believed they could be part of the solution, with equal parts George Godsey coaching (including planning & execution of said plan).
They not only got rid of Osweiller & Mallett, they've gotten rid of Godsey.
jradMIT
Veteran
There just isn't enough games under TS's belt to say what he will be. Granted the Texans seems to have little belief in him, but he will finally get his shot this year if healthy. He looked good to me in the game against Jacksonville, made several throws and moved in the pocket well. If he can consistently play at that level or slightly better, he will be able to be part of a winning formula of a play off team. Keep in mind that Fuller, Miller should be better. Hopefully Foreman can make an impact as well. Hopkins and Savage's chemistry couldn't be worse than Hopkins and OS so I expect Hopkins to be much better than last year. TS won't have to carry this team. I fully expect the O to take a big step forward next year. Maybe that is just the optimism in me, but there are several factors that are bound to bounce in the right direction from last year.
badboy
Hall of Fame
If we have a quality starter 90 percent of stress of team and fans disappears unless one is this
edit: Watson's three year college average was 67 % completion ratio and 8.4 per. If that hold in NFL (and it may or not), if we cannot pick up two yards in three downs, team should be disbanded.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
An optimistic opinion as you said and the opposite could just as easily be. I prefer to be an optimistic realist.
Uhh, it won't.
Texansballer74
The Marine
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
If he does that or better he'd be the best qb of all time. Easy.
You realize no active qb is averaging those numbers, right? Matter of fact only two qbs in the history of the NFL have ever averaged 8.4 ypc or better and their percentages were barely above 50%.
Tom Brady's best year ever he was at 68.9% and 8.3 ypa.
If Watson does better than 67% and 8.4 ypa in the NFL over his career or even close to that it would be unbelievable.
What are we talking about here...I mean come on. Look at those numbers again.
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
So the view is...he could better his Clemson stats while reducing his Clemson INT's? And, he's going to do this against NFL defenses?
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Would you be surprised if he elevated his play at the next level?
If you look at how he performed against an NFL-caliber defense (a team loaded with NFL talent on that side of the ball), Nick Saban and Alabama in the National Championship Game... He clearly saved his best play yet, against the best team in all the land. To the tune of 420 passing yards on 36-for-56 passing, 3 TDs and 0 INTs. He also added another 43 yards rushing with a TD on the ground.
And all that production was despite the fact he was facing a strong pass rush with numerous blue chip recruits and All-Americans, that were either drafted into the NFL or will be the following year. And he put Clemson on his back in that game, against a tremendous challenge, and carried them home to the National Championship!
To even put into question or discount Deshaun Watson being able to improve his regular-season stats at Clemson, especially his INTs against NFL defenses, is a bit foolish to me. He's already proven he certainly can.
Give the young man a chance. He's a winner that has played some good football on the biggest stage. Can he improve? Of course. But has he shown that ability to improve? Yes! There's a reason why his head coach compared him to Michael Jordan coming out of college.
A smart and athletic kid like Deshaun Watson, I have no doubts can become a very reliable and "winning quarterback" in the NFL. He may do something Warren Moon never could for this city. Win a Super Bowl.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Clemson's win over Alabama was indeed exciting. But Watson was far from the greatest factor leading to that win...........Scarborough's 1st half injury, Hurt's pathetic performance and uncharacteristic and untimely major penalties especially at the end of the game.
Three reasons Alabama failed to repeat as national champions
NCAAF
January 10, 2017 1:41am EST January 10, 2017 1:33am EST American Football, News, English, NCAA Division I FBS, Alabama, Clemson It was there for the taking for Alabama, but the Crimson Tide lost to Clemson because of three key reasons.
Published on Jan. 10, 2017
It was there for the taking. Alabama quarterback Jalen Hurts had given the Crimson Tide a 31-28 lead over Clemson with just over two minutes remaining in Monday's College Football Playoff National Championship Game.
The Alabama offense turned things over to the nation's best defense, but Clemson quarterback Deshaun Watson marched the Tigers downfield and his 2-yard touchdown pass to Hunter Renfrow with a second remaining gave Clemson a 35-31 victory and its first national championship since 1981.
The Tigers (14-1) scored 21 points in the fourth quarter against an Alabama defense that had allowed just 32 fourth-quarter points all season.
So, how did Alabama (14-1) lose a game it led at halftime for the first time in 24 games? There are three key reasons.
1. Bo Scarbrough's injury
The Crimson Tide offense just wasn't the same without their bruising sophomore running back, who left early in the third quarter with a leg injury. Scarbrough ran the ball 12 times for 76 yards in the first half, scoring both Crimson Tide touchdowns to give them a 14-7 halftime lead. Scarbrough had just four carries in the second half and finished with 93 yards. The Clemson defense had no answers for the 6-2, 230-pound Scarbrough prior to his injury.
2. Lack of sustained drives
Hurts was trying to become the first true freshman since 1985 to lead his team to a national championship. But Hurts, despite his go-ahead 30-yard touchdown run with 2:07 remaining, turned in an underwhelming performance. He was 13 of 31 for 131 yards and a touchdown. The Tide were just 2 of 15 on third down and couldn't stay on the field to give their defense a break. Each of Alabama's four touchdowns were of the big-play variety — Scarbrough's runs of 25 and 37 yards, a 68-yard pass to tight end O.J. Howard and the late Hurts score. Before the Hurts touchdown run, Alabama had gained just 27 yards on 10 plays in the fourth quarter with three punts.
3. Penalties
While the Alabama defense wore down late because Clemson ran 99 offensive plays, the Tide were uncharacteristic of a Nick Saban-coached team with nine penalties for 82 yards. An unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on sophomore defensive tackle Da'Ron Payne helped put Clemson in position to take its first lead with under five minutes remaining in the fourth quarter. A pass interference penalty helped moved the ball from the Alabama 9 to the 2-yard line in the final seconds to put Clemson in a better position for the game-winning score.
Three reasons Alabama failed to repeat as national champions
NCAAF
January 10, 2017 1:41am EST January 10, 2017 1:33am EST American Football, News, English, NCAA Division I FBS, Alabama, Clemson It was there for the taking for Alabama, but the Crimson Tide lost to Clemson because of three key reasons.
Published on Jan. 10, 2017
It was there for the taking. Alabama quarterback Jalen Hurts had given the Crimson Tide a 31-28 lead over Clemson with just over two minutes remaining in Monday's College Football Playoff National Championship Game.
The Alabama offense turned things over to the nation's best defense, but Clemson quarterback Deshaun Watson marched the Tigers downfield and his 2-yard touchdown pass to Hunter Renfrow with a second remaining gave Clemson a 35-31 victory and its first national championship since 1981.
The Tigers (14-1) scored 21 points in the fourth quarter against an Alabama defense that had allowed just 32 fourth-quarter points all season.
So, how did Alabama (14-1) lose a game it led at halftime for the first time in 24 games? There are three key reasons.
1. Bo Scarbrough's injury
The Crimson Tide offense just wasn't the same without their bruising sophomore running back, who left early in the third quarter with a leg injury. Scarbrough ran the ball 12 times for 76 yards in the first half, scoring both Crimson Tide touchdowns to give them a 14-7 halftime lead. Scarbrough had just four carries in the second half and finished with 93 yards. The Clemson defense had no answers for the 6-2, 230-pound Scarbrough prior to his injury.
2. Lack of sustained drives
Hurts was trying to become the first true freshman since 1985 to lead his team to a national championship. But Hurts, despite his go-ahead 30-yard touchdown run with 2:07 remaining, turned in an underwhelming performance. He was 13 of 31 for 131 yards and a touchdown. The Tide were just 2 of 15 on third down and couldn't stay on the field to give their defense a break. Each of Alabama's four touchdowns were of the big-play variety — Scarbrough's runs of 25 and 37 yards, a 68-yard pass to tight end O.J. Howard and the late Hurts score. Before the Hurts touchdown run, Alabama had gained just 27 yards on 10 plays in the fourth quarter with three punts.
3. Penalties
While the Alabama defense wore down late because Clemson ran 99 offensive plays, the Tide were uncharacteristic of a Nick Saban-coached team with nine penalties for 82 yards. An unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on sophomore defensive tackle Da'Ron Payne helped put Clemson in position to take its first lead with under five minutes remaining in the fourth quarter. A pass interference penalty helped moved the ball from the Alabama 9 to the 2-yard line in the final seconds to put Clemson in a better position for the game-winning score.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Yes I know it's a big time reach on my behalf. I was just having some fun X man.
Channeling the inner JB.
Lighten up bud.
I just hope we finally solved our QB woes. This nonsense has been going on for way too long.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
Yes he could reduce his interceptions issues. We've seen Fitzpatrick the Interceptions guru cut that nonsense out under Bill O'Brien. As far as the Clemson stats translating over to the real deal NFL level, O highly doubt it. But maybe he can get close to it. Time will tell correct?
zshawn10
All Pro
Former Bills safety Aaron Williams to visit the Texans on Thursday, according to sources. Former Longhorn standout healthy now, per source.
https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/874276726439890946
https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/874276726439890946
Texansballer74
The Marine
Well put Bulls on Parade
zshawn10
All Pro
405 yards with 4 TDs and 1 INT the first time he played Bama
420 yards with 3 TDs and 0 INT in the championship game. He can clearly get it done against top competition to add to your point
Say What???
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
I figured we were going with what we had at safety.
No, he literally hasn't.
zshawn10
All Pro
NFL Network will televise the #Texans vs. Panthers on Wednesday, August 9
@ 7:30 PM
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/874317002042744832
@ 7:30 PM
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/874317002042744832
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Williams has an extremely "iffy" future as the Bills must have also deduced. He has sustained several severe neck injuries and at least 4 concussions. He sustained one of his neck injuries in 2015 week 2..........tried to come back and sustained another severe neck injury in week 5 after which he was taken to surgery. It was reported as a cervical fusion.........but it was actually a lesser shaving of the apposing surfaces of C4 and C5. In the end of Oct last season, he was hospitalized with another severe neck injury after sustaining a crushing illegal hit. The shaving surgery that he underwent was to give room between the outlet between the C4 and C5 vertebrae to keep the spinal nerve root from being compressed. The condition reflects both degenerative changes to the cervical disc in that area as well as degenerative changes in the vertebrae themselves (which commonly include post traumatic arthritic bone spur formation) with accompanying collapse of the involved space. [see below] The procedure was evidently performed in hopes that it could allow Williams to try to avoid the much more major cervical fusion surgery. He is likely now a hit away from requiring the more major surgery........and as a hard hitting safety...........putting an end to his career.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Alabama's defense is as close as you can get to an NFL caliber defense at the collegiate level. Nick Saban has done an amazing job with that program. Look at all the defensive players they have drafted into the NFL, year in and year out. Scheme wise their defense implements a lot of the same things that you see at the next level.
And if you want to see Deshaun Watson play a real NFL defense just be patient. I still think he will start Week 1 of the 2017 season. If not, then certainly sometime before September is over.
I have no confidence in Tom Savage being able to stay healthy past two games as a starting quarterback. He's never shown that ability in his entire pro career. It wouldn't shock me if Savage goes down in the preseason or training camp.
And Brandon Weeden, we'll see. I like what he showed me in two regular-season wins a couple years back but Bill O'Brien never started him again. Didn't even go to him in the wild-card game versus Kansas City when Hoyer was struggling beyond words and that game was still a winnable game at halftime. It then got away in the second half.
Tom Savage has been here long enough. I've seen very little of anything good. Not even one measly Touchdown pass. Unless you count a preseason TD as something real. Much less starting more than two games in a row.
I don't mind people doubting Deshaun Watson. He's an unproven rookie. But don't throw this "Tom Savage is good" stuff down my face. If he were good we wouldn't be bringing in a new starting quarterback every year since he's been here. And we wouldn't have given up so much to trade up for Watson.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
see this is what causes arguments; you have no way of knowing that. You say that as if it is fact but it is not.
badboy
Hall of Fame
it has already been stated that OBrien is changing scheme to match Watson's skills.
But they aren't, and my response stands.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I know what's been done in NFL history and I don't care to be unreasonable.
But no, go ahead, tell me more things he could technically do but won't but I'm supposed to concede just haven't happened yet. He could lead the league in passing and rushing right? I mean, we have no way of knowing, ya?
Texas Jake
Rookie
Whether Savage is good or not is yet to be determined. I get tired of hearing he is crap - we doing know that yet. What Savage is is unproven and a big question mark concerning his durability. Doesn't mean he is not a plausable option, but it is one you are going to want to backup with alternates. Even if you believe Savage could be the next Brady (which I am not implying he is), you still want to hedge your bets because you could be wrong in your assessment, and even if you arent, every NFL player is just one injury away from career termination.
Concerning the cost of aquiring Watson, I don't think giving up a future first round pick is that steep to grab a QB with his talent and potential. And if he turns out to be the answer it will end up being a major value.