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Super Bowl LI discussion

Hervoyel said:
I'm impressed as hell with Brady but teams and more importantly organizations win championships. The New England Patriots have been to 7 Super Bowls since the Belichick regime took over there and I can't help but think that this kind of sustained success is organizational. I bet if Brady retired tomorrow that they would keep on grinding with Garoppolo. Brady is incredible, maybe even the GOAT but he's benefited his entire career from playing under one brilliant coach in one system that has slowly evolved over 17 years into what we see today. It's hard to judge whether he himself is the best of all time or simply one of the best with the benefit of an almost unmatched stable and winning organization.
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I agree the organization is great, however I disagree that they could plug in another qb and keep it rolling. As great as Peyton was, I'm not even convinced that had he been in NE all these years instead of Brady that they go to 7 SB's and win 5. I mean, that could be the case....but I'm not going to say it's a certainty.

Part of being fortunate enough to play under one head coach is winning so much that the coach has job security for all that time. Thats a joint effort.

And really, for all a coach's brilliance it still comes down to what players do on the field. Some things a coach simply can't coach into a player. Some players just have that extra something where they deliver greatness. Brady is that player. I don't care how good of a coach you are, if your qb throws a wonky pass or two at the wrong moment or doesn't make that magnificent play, you're not winning.

Brady is the Jordan of football. For as great as a coach as Phil Jackson was and for as good as the Bulls were at Finding Pippen and the role players....they aren't winning 6 titles without Michael Jordan. The Patriots aren't going to 7 Super Bowls and winning 5 without the greatness that Brady has provided at the most important and hardest to fill position in sports.

Finding a qb that you can go to 7 and win 5 Super Bowls with is not like just plug in Garrapolo and keep it rolling.
 
The 2nd SB won by the Pats due to horrible play calling! Falcons were in FG range!!! All they had to do was run the ball three straight times, kick the FG, and that would have been game!


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xtruroyaltyx said:
To me Brady was the GOAT before this game.

The guy has played in 7 FUVING SB's!!!!!

And has won 5 of them...That is crazy.
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But he wears Uggs and dances like a chick. That's all I got in my weak argument against him.

I think he might well be the greatest QB ever. I want to say Joe Montana because he played in an era where defenses could play tougher and tighter, but then I think of the options Montana had (Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Brent Jones and Dwight Clark and compare it to Brady and it's clearer that Brady elevates his team unlike any player I can think of.
 
dream_team said:
The 2nd SB won by the Pats due to horrible play calling! Falcons were in FG range!!! All they had to do was run the ball three straight times, kick the FG, and that would have been game!


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Sounds eeriely familar to the last time they won. Pete Carroll's team had driven down to the, what, five? And he throws the ball instead of running Beast Mode? And a CB who really hadn't played well all season knows exactly where to be to pick off that pass route?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but damn.

I'm with Lucky. Either Brady or Belichick sold their soul to the devil.
 
Guys I have to say, as someone who lived through the 35-3 debacle, it was pretty sweet living in New England and being on the other side of a 28-3 comeback. Texans will always be my true love, but I can't help but get a little caught up in the fun (especially since my kids were all born here)
 
Hervoyel said:
No, I don't agree with that even a little bit. If they had even held the Patriots to 3 they would have had a chance to answer it with either a FG of their own or a TD for the win but they didn't. They let New England drive the ball all the way down the field on their first possession of overtime and punch it in. They deserved to lose that game and they did.

I'm a big fan of the NFL version of overtime as opposed to that endless bullshit that the NCAA does where you see score after score blowing the stats all out of proportion and turning 24-24 ties into 51-45 wins with each team putting up 600 yards of "offense". In the old days when the NFL had a "First to score wins then THE END" system then yes, that could be unfair and often a coin toss gave one team a huge advantage but it's not too much to ask a team to simply keep their opponent from scoring a TD to earn their own chance to answer.
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Agreed. At first I wasn't in favor of the new OT rule to give each team a shot unless a TD was scored, but it's so easy to get into FG and end the game that it just started making more sense to me. How they have it now is perfect. A big part of this game is defense. Play defense and keep the other team out of the end zone if you want a chance to win.

Don't like the coin toss deciding? Maybe they should go with the team with the most yards or 1st downs or something. Other than that, nothing needs to be done to OT.
 
Marcus said:
That was a bad picture that didn't explain anything. Watch the YouTube video of the replay. They have it up already.
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That was the youtube video of the replay. I said I had the video paused at the 29 second mark and Speedy made the comment he didn't know what I was watching. I took that screen shot from the video and enhanced the lighting to try to make it more evident. And it doesn't explain anything? Right hand is clearly over the ball (not underneath), his pinkie finger is clearly visible and not covering the tip of the ball.
 
It's possible that the refs came to the conclusion that regardless, they were going to rule it a catch and why spend time on trying to figure out whether it touched the ground? Might have just been trying to save viewers/players/coaches from having to sit through a long review when it was unnecessary to do so.
 
Speedy said:
Don't like the coin toss deciding? Maybe they should go with the team with the most yards or 1st downs or something. Other than that, nothing needs to be done to OT.
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I don't buy the "coin toss deciding" argument. It's a team game, offense & defense. Had Atlanta got the ball first, chances are they wouldn't have scored a TD. New England had them figured out at half time. Atlanta's defense wasn't stopping New England's offense & Atlanta's offense wasn't moving the ball on New England's defense.

If it were sudden death OT, where any score wins, I could see it. But the way it is now, I have no issues whatsoever.
 
Marcus said:
OK, so what is it that you are arguing about then?
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Maybe all the comments telling me the ball didn't touch? I thought Edelman possessed the ball before it hit the ground, but that the ball clearly hit the ground. The refs explanation therefore of 'the ball never touched the ground' would be wrong.
chicagotexan2 said:
Yes that play. It looked like a legit catch to me. I'd have to look at a replay that showed it hit the ground first. I thought he had a hand underneath the ball.
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powerfuldragon said:
his hand was definitely under the ball.
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corytx8 said:
It didn't touch the ground though


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xtruroyaltyx said:
I never saw it touch the ground either.
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santo said:

It never touched the ground
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Speedy said:
I don't know what you're watching but the ball never touched the ground.
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I watched the replay multiple times, I hate the patriots. That was a catch, ball didn't hit the ground. Clearly it was the defenders leg that kept the ball from hitting the ground.


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Double Barrel said:
It is not often as football fans that we have a chance to witness true historical greatness. Brady and Belichick winning no. 5 would certainly be that kind of once-in-a-lifetime chance to see such greatness.

I have always liked Brady since 2001. His story is truly legendary, especially back when he got the start and all the media talking heads were predicting the end of pocket passers. Guys like Vick, McNabb, Culpepper, were all the rage, the so-called "prototype QB" that was to be the future of football, and nobody would ever stand in the pocket throwing passes anymore. That was their exact predictions. Fast forward 16 years later, and not only were they wrong in their assumptions, none of the trends emerged. Running QBs are prone to injuries due to their style, so they never mature into passing QBs that have the cerebral game that you see with guys like Brady, Manning, and even a Matt Ryan.

I'm not a Pats fan, but I'm not a hater in any sort of way. I'm rooting for history with this game. Let's see it!
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DB, you're a Pats fan man. You always have been. Embrace it. :tiphat:
 
Double Barrel said:
It is not often as football fans that we have a chance to witness true historical greatness. Brady and Belichick winning no. 5 would certainly be that kind of once-in-a-lifetime chance to see such greatness.

I have always liked Brady since 2001. His story is truly legendary, especially back when he got the start and all the media talking heads were predicting the end of pocket passers. Guys like Vick, McNabb, Culpepper, were all the rage, the so-called "prototype QB" that was to be the future of football, and nobody would ever stand in the pocket throwing passes anymore. That was their exact predictions. Fast forward 16 years later, and not only were they wrong in their assumptions, none of the trends emerged. Running QBs are prone to injuries due to their style, so they never mature into passing QBs that have the cerebral game that you see with guys like Brady, Manning, and even a Matt Ryan.

I'm not a Pats fan, but I'm not a hater in any sort of way. I'm rooting for history with this game. Let's see it!
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Double Post
 
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corytx8 said:
I watched the replay multiple times, I hate the patriots. That was a catch, ball didn't hit the ground. Clearly it was the defenders leg that kept the ball from hitting the ground.


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Just checked to make sure, the defenders leg popped into the air and wasn't underneath the ball.
 
BEst SB of all time to me. Most people said Brady's SB performance was the best of all time in the Seattle SB win, but he just topped that performance. Hail Tom Brady. King of the North!
 
Double Barrel said:
hehe, 'not a fan' as in buying any merch, but I damn sure enjoyed that comeback last night. Especially since everyone else in the room was rooting for the Falcons. :cowboy1:
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Maybe you just don't know it or haven't thought about it like that, but you're always there to defend them and you've always appreciated their ways of running their organization. Hell, you've even argued with me about Belicheck when I've criticized him at times. With the difficulty of dealing with the Texans, its okay to have a 2nd team to follow. We've been abused pretty bad over the years. Glad you enjoyed the game man.
 
Texecutioner said:
Maybe you just don't know it or haven't thought about it like that, but you're always there to defend them and you've always appreciated their ways of running their organization. Hell, you've even argued with me about Belicheck when I've criticized him at times. With the difficulty of dealing with the Texans, its okay to have a 2nd team to follow. We've been abused pretty bad over the years. Glad you enjoyed the game man.
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Before the Oilers left, I had never even thought about rooting for another team. But, when they did leave and we had that void, I'd pick a team every year to follow. I mean, I couldn't stop watching football! I disliked Elway for a long time because of the Oilers, but when they left, I no longer had a reason for the hate and started rooting for him. Then they won back-to-back championships. That was fun to watch.

So it was a habit every year to pick a team, and in 2001 when Brady came in for Bledsoe in the first football weekend after 09/11, I became a Brady fan. It was just a cool story, and maybe being the Patriots during that period of U.S. history had something to do with it, too. Over time, of course, you start to root for his team, as well, and that's been an amazing ride for the past 16 years. Almost mind blowing in their success.

And then when the local team is as inept as the Texans have been for 15 seasons, it's not difficult to have another team in your back pocket to enjoy watching as an NFL fan. Especially when that team was always a counter balance to a team you hated in your own division (Colts).

Pretty much everyone (my friends) at last night's SB party was directing their hatred and venom at me, and the gloat was strong through most of the game. So yeah, you're right. I might not be a 'fanatic', but I could say that I'm a fan. :toast2:
 
Double Barrel said:
Before the Oilers left, I had never even thought about rooting for another team. But, when they did leave and we had that void, I'd pick a team every year to follow. I mean, I couldn't stop watching football! I disliked Elway for a long time because of the Oilers, but when they left, I no longer had a reason for the hate and started rooting for him. Then they won back-to-back championships. That was fun to watch.

So it was a habit every year to pick a team, and in 2001 when Brady came in for Bledsoe in the first football weekend after 09/11, I became a Brady fan. It was just a cool story, and maybe being the Patriots during that period of U.S. history had something to do with it, too. Over time, of course, you start to root for his team, as well, and that's been an amazing ride for the past 16 years. Almost mind blowing in their success.

And then when the local team is as inept as the Texans have been for 15 seasons, it's not difficult to have another team in your back pocket to enjoy watching as an NFL fan. Especially when that team was always a counter balance to a team you hated in your own division (Colts).

Pretty much everyone (my friends) at last night's SB party was directing their hatred and venom at me, and the gloat was strong through most of the game. So yeah, you're right. I might not be a 'fanatic', but I could say that I'm a fan. :toast2:
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Well the Patriots are a dynasty that has been going strong for 16 years. It's like rooting for the Cowboys to win another SB in the 90's. To me, dynasties are no fun unless you're a fan of the team. I prefer watching new teams experience the feeling, like the Cubs did this year, as opposed to the same team repeating year after year.
 
They should have done the co-MVP thing last night like they did when Terrell Davis and Elway shared the honor.
If either one of them don't have the game they had last night, the Pats lose.
 
ObsiWan said:
They should have done the co-MVP thing last night like they did when Terrell Davis and Elway shared the honor.
If either one of them don't have the game they had last night, the Pats lose.
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I hear ya on that. I was so happy for James White last night. He really has been a guy in the shadows of so many Patriot players over the last two years.

I still give it to Brady simply because he put on the best SB performance in NFL history. His first half would have been a lot better if his receivers didn't have so many drops, and his running game did nothing all night long. A QB having to throw the ball 60+ times is putting the team squarely on his back though. One of Brady's best stats to me is his record now of 5-1 in games where he has thrown the ball 50 or more times. The rest of the NFL is 3-27 in those games where their QB had to do that. I'm blown away by that stat, and last night with him throwing 60 times is just insane. Remember that they actually had to convert "two" 2 pt conversions just to tie the game up, and Brady led "two" last minute drives to win this game. One to tie it, and the other to win in OT. Brady takes it man, but I like the live that James White is getting.

I'd love to see the Texans make a play for White.
 
ObsiWan said:
They should have done the co-MVP thing last night like they did when Terrell Davis and Elway shared the honor.
If either one of them don't have the game they had last night, the Pats lose.
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Trivia - only time a player on the non-winning team was named MVP?
 
I'm still shaking my head about this outcome. It was like a total rope a dope. Like Apollo Creed hammering Drago then Drago waking up and just slaughtering Apollo. I know the Falcons effed it up to a certain extent but this freaking Brady just hung in there after getting his head kicked in and reached into their hearts and pulled it out. Unbelievable.

On second thought this is not like Rocky IV this is like that scene in Tombstone where Wyatt Earp and his crew are trapped by the river bank and everyone is looking to him and he just gets up and starts blasting everyone. What a great game even if I didn't get to see the Patriots lose.
 
chicagotexan2 said:
I'm still shaking my head about this outcome. It was like a total rope a dope. Like Apollo Creed hammering Drago then Drago waking up and just slaughtering Apollo. I know the Falcons effed it up to a certain extent but this freaking Brady just hung in there after getting his head kicked in and reached into their hearts and pulled it out. Unbelievable.

On second thought this is not like Rocky IV this is like that scene in Tombstone where Wyatt Earp and his crew are trapped by the river bank and everyone is looking to him and he just gets up and starts blasting everyone. What a great game even if I didn't get to see the Patriots lose.
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It's kind of funny but if Atlanta had continued to hammer the Pats, most of the nation that was watching would have continued watching just to see the Pats being destroyed.
 
banned1976 said:
Question for everyone. Where you bored when the Falcons were up by 25?
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Yes. I was about to cut it off and watch a movie, but since Tom Brady was playing, I decided to see what he would do before I called it quits. Atlanta's coach should have ran the ball to death when they were in field goal range though.
 
chicagotexan2 said:
No way, I was reveling in it (while it lasted).
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JCTexan said:
Hell no. I was enjoying the game too much. 4th quarter? Not so much.
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Add me to the list.

BTW, great job Houston!!! I haven't head a single negative thing about the experience folks had. I'm sure Tony Kornheiser would have some things to say, but I haven't watched him in years.

Oh, and Goodell, relax about the boos. I'm sure your kids still like you.
 
Showtime100 said:
Add me to the list.

BTW, great job Houston!!! I haven't head a single negative thing about the experience folks had. I'm sure Tony Kornheiser would have some things to say, but I haven't watched him in years.

Oh, and Goodell, relax about the boos. I'm sure your kids still like you.
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^^^ That was sweet to hear him get booed like that.
 
JCTexan said:
Well the Patriots are a dynasty that has been going strong for 16 years. It's like rooting for the Cowboys to win another SB in the 90's. To me, dynasties are no fun unless you're a fan of the team. I prefer watching new teams experience the feeling, like the Cubs did this year, as opposed to the same team repeating year after year.
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I agree with this to an extent, but it's also always fun to see a team that's not only better than everyone else but also really, really good. That's unique and deserves to be celebrated.
 
JCTexan said:
Well the Patriots are a dynasty that has been going strong for 16 years. It's like rooting for the Cowboys to win another SB in the 90's. To me, dynasties are no fun unless you're a fan of the team. I prefer watching new teams experience the feeling, like the Cubs did this year, as opposed to the same team repeating year after year.
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The amazing thing, though, is that virtually all the 'experts' were telling us NFL fans that modern dynasties were impossible due to free agency and salary caps. That a team could come along with basically two consistent ingredients - HC and QB - and continually be the mark of excellence for over a decade and a half is witnessing something that might never happen again.

As a pro football fan, I cannot help but be amazed and awed by it. It is truly seeing two masters at work with Belichick and Brady. I did not have this kind of depth of insight to really appreciate the dynasties of the past when they were happening - Chuck Knoll's Steelers, Landry's Cowboys, Walsh's 49ers, etc. - that now at 50 I can really enjoy watching them. We are watching history unfold before us, and it might never happen again. They will be talking about this Patriots dynasty many decades from now.
 
Double Barrel said:
The amazing thing, though, is that virtually all the 'experts' were telling us NFL fans that modern dynasties were impossible due to free agency and salary caps. That a team could come along with basically two consistent ingredients - HC and QB - and continually be the mark of excellence for over a decade and a half is witnessing something that might never happen again.

As a pro football fan, I cannot help but be amazed and awed by it. It is truly seeing two masters at work with Belichick and Brady. I did not have this kind of depth of insight to really appreciate the dynasties of the past when they were happening - Chuck Knoll's Steelers, Landry's Cowboys, Walsh's 49ers, etc. - that now at 50 I can really enjoy watching them. We are watching history unfold before us, and it might never happen again. They will be talking about this Patriots dynasty many decades from now.
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Yep, and they aren't even finished yet. They could conceivably win AT LEAST 1 more together before they are done.
 
Think Brady did this on purpose? Pretty unusual way to have your hands in that situation.

16508182_1888319984734933_2426331150794091407_n.jpg
 
Haven't read the thread. Won't either.

Just wondering whether everyone crapped on Baby Shan for not running the ball in Field Goal distance?

No way OB would do the same thing.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Haven't read the thread. Won't either.

Just wondering whether everyone crapped on Baby Shan for not running the ball in Field Goal distance?

No way OB would do the same thing.
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Two or three mentions, but never the center of discussion.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Haven't read the thread. Won't either.

Just wondering whether everyone crapped on Baby Shan for not running the ball in Field Goal distance?

No way OB would do the same thing.
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Much like Rosencopter, your most important and wise player (QB) knows exactly what to do in that situation and always has an 'out'. It's something that is practiced over and over. Shanny I'm sure was tempted to jump down from the box to throw a rock at Ryan for ignoring what should've been instinct. Throwing the ball isn't a problem, the quarterback making a mess of it is unacceptable.
 
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