Where will the defense be in another 3 years?
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Where will the defense be in another 3 years?
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Hope we get a "project" just like him! ;^)
Andrew Luck wasn't - but I know who I would rather take - and save my first for another stud.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
That's what we thought about the offense 3 years ago
My point was about not wanting to draft a project with the coaches we have right now.
O'brien would have started Fitz regardless. Mallett still would have been second string & if Carr ever threw an INT, Teapot would have had a kiniption fit.
ghostlight
Veteran
Romo can not make a 16 game season so let's see what is available at our draft pick.
Were they watching the 2016 Houston Texans or having mangos with a certain someone?
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Probably true, but the way he moves the ball downfield would garner a lot of forgiveness too.
Os did alright for a couple of games. Going down field ended when we played New England, never to be seen again.
TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
I think Os will be on a much much shorter leash next season. If we can get at least solid play out of one of our quarterbacks and we get better offensive play calling from O'b and we stay mostly healthy I feel our team is for sure Super Bowl caliber. Time will tell the tale.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Heh, I was referring to Carr.
I understand. I'm saying O'b may be on of those that preach "take care of the ball, be safe" that makes an inexperienced QB overthink throwing it deep. Look at Osweiler's numbers in Denver. He didn't have a problem stretching the field. Nothing like what we've seen here.
If O'Brien had Derek Carr I don't know that he'd be the 4,000 yard throwing machine he appears to be now. Especially since we don't have a WR who gets YAC like Amari Cooper does.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I think Texans target a possession receiver in FA to get help for Nuk and the qb.
We already have speed, just need to clean up his tendencies to drop the ball.
MistaRed
Rookie
One team that has been rumored to be in the market for trading for Garoppolo is the Houston Texans. However, in speaking with Texans sources, that is very unlikely. Houston doesn't sound willing to be interested in dealing the necessary picks for Garoppolo. The Texans are definitely in the market to add talent to their quarterback competition, but they are more likely to select a signal-caller in the early rounds of the 2017 NFL Draft.
According to sources, if the Texans do acquire a veteran, it would probably be a free agent like Jay Cutler or Tony Romo if they were released and willing to take a cheap contract. The Texans are the only playoff team in the market for a starting quarterback, so if either Cutler or Romo wants a shot to win before the end of their careers, Houston could be their best opportunity. The Texans won't be able to offer a big contract for either veteran because of the money taken up by Brock Osweiler. Thus, the most likely move will be taking a quarterback prospect with one of their early picks in the 2017 NFL Draft.
http://mail.walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2017rumors.php
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According to sources, if the Texans do acquire a veteran, it would probably be a free agent like Jay Cutler or Tony Romo if they were released and willing to take a cheap contract. The Texans are the only playoff team in the market for a starting quarterback, so if either Cutler or Romo wants a shot to win before the end of their careers, Houston could be their best opportunity. The Texans won't be able to offer a big contract for either veteran because of the money taken up by Brock Osweiler. Thus, the most likely move will be taking a quarterback prospect with one of their early picks in the 2017 NFL Draft.
http://mail.walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2017rumors.php
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
I would give O' Brien a little credit; however, I think his stressing of not to hold on to the ball should be universal; every HC/OC/QB coach would do it anyway as a progression of a young QB.
Besides, the vision google seems to be Godsey's learning.
http://www.scout.com/nfl/texans/story/1570043-the-story-behind-tom-savage-s-glasses
So, it seems that it had helped Savage, but why wasn't it reported whether Osweiler and Weeden had any use for them. Neither was known for good field vision.
Or did they use them and we never knew about it?
Your point is moot though, because none of the QBs in the draft play in a system that resembles OB's stinky system.
They could offer Romo a five year deal averaging $20M/yr
With a $20M signing bonus & $1M salary for 2017, his cap hit would only be $6M for 2017.
2018 salary of $18M ($23M cap hit)
2019 salary of $18M ($23M cap hit)
2020 salary of $18M ($23M cap hit)
2021 salary of $25M ($30M cap hit)
$100M over 5 years.
Not that I'm saying I would do this. Or that Romo would. Just pointing out there are ways to work around the salary cap. 2017 he'd have a low cap hit to "work" out the Osweiler thing. 2018 Osweiler's $21M cap hit would be replaced with Romo's $23M cap hit.
& I don't even know that we'd have to guarantee anything but the $20M signing bonus & $1M 2017 salary. Everything else could be guaranteed on the first day of the new league year... or once the regular season starts. Or never.
He would have to be released, or agree to renegotiate his current deal.
With a $20M signing bonus & $1M salary for 2017, his cap hit would only be $6M for 2017.
2018 salary of $18M ($23M cap hit)
2019 salary of $18M ($23M cap hit)
2020 salary of $18M ($23M cap hit)
2021 salary of $25M ($30M cap hit)
$100M over 5 years.
Not that I'm saying I would do this. Or that Romo would. Just pointing out there are ways to work around the salary cap. 2017 he'd have a low cap hit to "work" out the Osweiler thing. 2018 Osweiler's $21M cap hit would be replaced with Romo's $23M cap hit.
& I don't even know that we'd have to guarantee anything but the $20M signing bonus & $1M 2017 salary. Everything else could be guaranteed on the first day of the new league year... or once the regular season starts. Or never.
He would have to be released, or agree to renegotiate his current deal.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Put me firmly in the NO category. He's a ticking injury timebomb and unless we really hit a home run, he'd play behind a line that can't protect him the way he needs to be protected. Even if we do hit a home run, he's too fragile and old.
jradMIT
Veteran
I agree, they can offer Romo a decent contract, money won't keep them from signing him unless he wants another huge pay day. Bottom line we can't win with OS or the chance we can to me is much less than Tony Romo being healthy for the playoffs (which speaks volume on my opinion on OS), you can still keep Savage and draft a player as contingencies, so your only loss would be 20M spread over 2 seasons if worst case he gives you nothing. Rolling with OS for another season, might as well start a mini rebuild and build for 2018 because you can't expect it to get better.
zshawn10
All Pro
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Well Denver is estimated to have 38m in cap space. They can take on his 14m this year with no problem if they want to trade for him.
There are other options that have the potential to solve the position for the better part of a decade instead of a single year .... that don't cost you as much cap space but do cost you draft picks (Garappolo or McCarron).
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
All a coincidence really. They were both friends of that politician and attended his party.
The Broncos have a terrible offensive line. Worse than the Texans O-Line.
And their defense isn't any better with a Watt resurgence in Houston.
Heck, we had the #1 defense in 2016 without J.J. Watt but he's our glorified Von Miller when healthy.
Just not seeing a good fit in Denver with Tony Romo to be honest.
They're not as good as they were last year when they won the Super Bowl.
And getting Romo would make it clear they have no confidence in Semien and Lynch.
Not to mention the Chiefs and Raiders are the class of the AFC West. Both of them won 12 games this season! Even if the Broncos tried to make a desperate move, they may still be a third place team. The Texans have won back-to-back AFC South titles with countless mediocre quarterback.
If Tony Romo went to the Broncos they aren't a lock to make the playoffs. If Tony Romo came to the Texans I'd call it a lock that they'll make the playoffs for a third straight year.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Without any major upgrades to their offensive line it won't do any good.
The 12-win Chiefs and Raiders aren't going to go anywhere anytime soon either.
With Tony Romo, I could see the Denver Broncos still being a third place team.
Maybe even last place. As I wouldn't be surprised if the energized L.A. Chargers surpass them.
The Houston Texans are a first place team in 2017 even if Brock Osweiler is our starting quarterback. It would be better for Tony Romo to remain the backup quarterback for the Cowboys, while still being paid a pretty good penny, than go to a team that isn't likely to make the playoffs next year like the Denver Broncos.
That AFC West is stacked! Chiefs, Raiders (both 12-win teams) and Chargers (ton of leads they blew in the fourth quarter last year, could have easily won 10 games)... And the Broncos could very well go 9-7 again in 2017 at best. Maybe 8-8 or 7-9. I don't like the downgrade in head coach from Super Bowl 50 champion Gary Kubiak to Vance Joseph. That will cost them a game or two.
jradMIT
Veteran
I honestly think teams got smart and took it away playing a high cover 2 most of the time, the league just got more tape on him and realized that forcing him to throw in a zone underneath was the best way to go.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Brock Osweiler made some big-time throws at Foxborough in the divisional round. Unfortunately a handful of them were dropped! Including a potential Touchdown pass to Will Fuller that could have changed the entire complexion of that game.
We were trailing 17-13 at halftime and 24-16 early in the fourth quarter. One score. All we needed was that one big play to seize some momentum. Big Brock threw the ball where it had to be during critical moments that could have had us in a position to steal that game in the fourth quarter - and I'll argue this all off-season long - and our guys just dropped it!!!!!
A couple of first-down passes dropped by C.J. Fiedorowicz and the Touchdown that Will Fuller should have caught. You can go on and on.... Yes, the Interceptions did hurt us but who knows what would have happened if the big passes he did make accurate throws on were caught.
Tom Brady threw some picks too. At times Brady played just as bad as Osweiler. But yet he was also able to lob a few lame ducks and wobbly balls in the air with a ton of hang time, like a mini punt, and their guys just so happen to come down with the ball. It helped when our DBs were falling down.
LOL, just how it works out. When you're hot you're hot and when you're not you're not.
I believe that was a song on my old "ABC Monday Night Football CD" that I had in the mid '90s.
Regardless, I think the Texans will win the AFC South for a third straight year in 2017 regardless of who our starting quarterback is. With a healthy J.J. Watt coming back, perhaps even Adrian Peterson wanting to play for his hometown team, I'd feel pretty upbeat whether or not we can land Tony Romo.
We were trailing 17-13 at halftime and 24-16 early in the fourth quarter. One score. All we needed was that one big play to seize some momentum. Big Brock threw the ball where it had to be during critical moments that could have had us in a position to steal that game in the fourth quarter - and I'll argue this all off-season long - and our guys just dropped it!!!!!
A couple of first-down passes dropped by C.J. Fiedorowicz and the Touchdown that Will Fuller should have caught. You can go on and on.... Yes, the Interceptions did hurt us but who knows what would have happened if the big passes he did make accurate throws on were caught.
Tom Brady threw some picks too. At times Brady played just as bad as Osweiler. But yet he was also able to lob a few lame ducks and wobbly balls in the air with a ton of hang time, like a mini punt, and their guys just so happen to come down with the ball. It helped when our DBs were falling down.
LOL, just how it works out. When you're hot you're hot and when you're not you're not.
I believe that was a song on my old "ABC Monday Night Football CD" that I had in the mid '90s.
Regardless, I think the Texans will win the AFC South for a third straight year in 2017 regardless of who our starting quarterback is. With a healthy J.J. Watt coming back, perhaps even Adrian Peterson wanting to play for his hometown team, I'd feel pretty upbeat whether or not we can land Tony Romo.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Good point re Lynch.
jradMIT
Veteran
I think those are options as well. Let's face it there are really no options without risk. McCarron and Garapolo are unproven and young and will cost draft picks, (draft picks indirectly cost money as well). Can you assume Garrapolo wont be injuried prone as well? He is smallish, and got hurt in his second game. On one side you have age, injury risk, but proven play on the other side you have some good play in a small sample size and youth. One costs premium picks the other cost cap space. At what point are the picks too much? Would you give a 1st and 4th for JG or even more? What would you be willing to part with for AJ?
He's the exact same size as Rodgers and Andy Dalton. Not really big but not really smallish either.
jradMIT
Veteran
Let's just say he doesn't have the prototypical size, sure there are guys like Rodgers, Dalton, Brees, but its not ideal, he got hurt in his second game as well so you got to assume a certain level of health and durability concerns for him. Let's keep in mind he's played 1.5 games, so its very much a question of projection for it all. It wouldn't be shocking if this guy is constantly banged up during his career, honestly its more likely than him being an IronMan.
He's 6'2 225. He has completely adequate size. Same as two of those guys and clearly bigger than the other.
You don't really have to assume any concerns though. You're no less likely to get hurt in your second game as you seventieth. And anybody getting hurt is more likely than them being iron man. Injuries sometimes just happen.
You're entire argument is only from the perspective of seeing him as injury prone first. I don't recall the guy having any kind of extensive injury history in college through four full years and he just happened to get dinged up in one outing in 2016. Anything else is trying to look at it with a purpose.
I think trading for Garoppolo is a dumb idea.
Had we not wrestled Osweiler away from the Broncos, I'd think about it. But a 1st & a 4th... out of the question. It doesn't even add up. He wasn't worth a 1st in 2014. He's done nothing since, no way I'd give up a 1st & a 4th for him.
I can see them bringing in a "proven" veteran. But not an unproven backup.
It's time to stop messing around & draft our guy. Even if that means we wait until next year.
In the mean time, they can work on fielding a competent QB. Whether it's Osweiler, Savage, or Weeden doesn't matter. One of those guys should get us average results. If this coaching staff can't get average out of average prospects, why would I give them a blue chip?
Had we not wrestled Osweiler away from the Broncos, I'd think about it. But a 1st & a 4th... out of the question. It doesn't even add up. He wasn't worth a 1st in 2014. He's done nothing since, no way I'd give up a 1st & a 4th for him.
I can see them bringing in a "proven" veteran. But not an unproven backup.
It's time to stop messing around & draft our guy. Even if that means we wait until next year.
In the mean time, they can work on fielding a competent QB. Whether it's Osweiler, Savage, or Weeden doesn't matter. One of those guys should get us average results. If this coaching staff can't get average out of average prospects, why would I give them a blue chip?
Find it funny he's arguing Garappolo is injury prone while pushing for Romo ....
My thought process is pretty simple in taking a shot on the guy ....
He's shown the ability to make throws against an NFL defense (A Good one in Az).
He's cheap this season which is a must when you have so much cap space tied up in Os.
No player the Texans can pick at 25ish can impact their chances of winning as much as a competent quarterback.
Some are talking abut drafting a QB early in a year where the pickings are slim. He appears to me to be a better option than any in this draft , using draft picks to acquire him , you are for all intents and purposes drafting him instead of a more questionable prospect .... the only difference is you only get a one year audition instead of 3 or 4 and the cost will go up quickly should he pay well when compared to a draft choice.
Why draft a highly questionable or highly flawed prospect when you can get a semi-proven one with those same picks.
So you're ok with another wasted year?
Not at all. I expect our coaches to coach.
We should have won 10 games in 2016 with the worst QB in the league. Surely we can win 12 games with average QB play.
Just not sure about even average QB play from who we currently have.
Os is Os, while Savage and Weeden are no better than question marks right now.
I'd feel worlds more confident in a Garappolo next year or at least an early draft pick to think about a year or so from now.
Garoppolo is the same question mark as Savage & Weeden. & there's nothing stopping us from drafting a QB in the first three rounds.
- I simply disagree. Feel like I've seen more to be confident about in Garoppollo relative to what I've seen from the other two.
- Was only going off of your saying 'even if that means we wait until next year'. That's all. I'm all for us looking hard at this year's crop.
jradMIT
Veteran
The point is we don't know whether or not he is injury prone. There is certainly risk there, more than say a larger player (245lb) or a player who has played any significant length in time in the league. Adequate size sure if you want to put it that way and he wasn't injured in college, however there is a big leap in size and speed especially going from a small conference to the pros not to mention the longer season. Add in the fact he got hurt in his second game does nothing to diminish or dispel this possibility. I'm not saying this invalidates him in any way but that it should in theory lower the price you would be willing to give up for him, it would be foolish to not have some concerns about his frame and durability going forward.
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Why should I be concerned any more about his frame than the enormous list of guys that have had long careers in the league from that position with the same frame/build? His frame is nothing below standard whatsoever. I don't know how else to continue making that point. Being Roethlesberger or Newton or Luck is not a requirement to feel at ease about injury. And given some of their injuries it's no guarantee either, of course.
And of course we don't know if he's injury prone or not ... in the same way that we don't know if any player is injury prone or not until we know that they are. The traditional default position though is that they aren't until they prove to be.
The fact that he's had one injury and it happened to be in his second game doesn't speak to a single thing other than there was an injury and it just so happened to be in some particular game. There's no trend, no pattern. And really I don't have to feel foolish for not being concerned about his durability any more than any other QB as he's given me no reason to be any more than them.
jradMIT
Veteran
We dont know if he is injury prone that is the point, we don't know if he is any good either. We can only establish the chances he is this or that. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be an option. I'm saying his size matters, his play in the 1.5 games matter, his injury sure as hell matters too. You can't on one hand enter his 1.5 games of play into consideration while ignoring his injury at the same time, they are all part of the picture. The injury should decrease the amount your willing to give up to attain him. There's a reason that ideal size is ideal size and it most directly relates to durability. Sure there are guys who were small and didn't get hurt and vice versa, but that's missing the point. Size and durability are very related are you saying that the two have nothing to do with each other?
jradMIT
Veteran
There is no default position, if a guy is smallish you start to think more about health and durability. The difference between Romo and Garrapolo, you know Romo can play, you don't have to give anything up to get him via the draft. For JG you have to give up alot via draft, you don't know how good he is, you don't know about his durability. There are pros and cons on both sides.
And yes guys like Luck and Big Ben have gotten hurt, mostly because they take an absolute beating, AL has been the most hit QB since he entered the league, they both hold the ball extremely long and take punishment. Do you think if they were his size they wouldn't have been on the shelf longer? Size matters pun intended.
And yes guys like Luck and Big Ben have gotten hurt, mostly because they take an absolute beating, AL has been the most hit QB since he entered the league, they both hold the ball extremely long and take punishment. Do you think if they were his size they wouldn't have been on the shelf longer? Size matters pun intended.
Aaron Rodgers isn't smallish.
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
NO.
We should have won more games with average coaching on the offensive side of the ball.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
This is contradicting to what you said about Bradford when the Vikings gave that up for him all because their young QB got hurt for the season. They made the worst panic trade of all time, and you aggressively defended it. Bradford was proven as you say, but not for what you want. He was proven to be nothing more than average at best, and to be one of the most injury prone QB's in the league that has availability issues. He had just pretty much busted in PHilly and helped to get his HC fired, and you thought Bradford was easily worth a 1st and a 4th. Garropalo has been damn good every time he has gotten in there and went 3-1 while putting up solid numbers unlike Bradford who always had inconsistent play. Bradford once again showed what he had always shown which is that he is nothing but average. He didn't elevate the Vikings at all.
Also what Garrapolo's draft round history was has nothing to do with what he is worth now. QB's are worth a lot when they've shown some success. If the Patriots want to trade him, they'll get that for sure from someone. He'll be the hottest name on the market in the off season if he goes up for trade and the Pats will easily get that. And you are calling Garrapolo a backup as if he was some late round draft pick or walk on. He was a pretty high draft pick to begin with, and went to Tom Brady's team. Unless you're criticizing him for not beating out Brady, it doesn't make any sense to reference him as some other team's backup like he is some guy that just hasn't been able to cut it as a starter.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
And one more thing for you to chew on. What about your boy McCarron? You are his biggest fan. I'd be perfectly fine with going after him to see what he's got. He shouldn't cost all that much since he hasn't threatened Dalton for the job. I saw some possible potential in last season.