Is Tom Savage A Long Term Option?

[Marcus]

Strangely enough, if you think about it, Savage has actually been O'Brien's only truly "virgin" hand-picked Texans QB.

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Tom Savage Has Been the One Constant Since Bill O'Brien Arrived with the Houston Texans

Patrick Starr
9:29 AM


Tom Savage is the one quarterback that has been the constant in the Houston Texans quarterback room since Bill O'Brien's arrival.

The choice has been made by Bill O'Brien to continue the late season push to the playoffs with Tom Savage at the helm. What is lost in all of this is the fact that Savage was the hand-picked quarterback of O’Brien from day one.


The actual connection started when O’Brien took over the Penn State head coaching vacancy in 2012 and recruited Savage after he transferred to Arizona from Rutgers. Unable to land him, O’Brien kept an thumb on Savage after he transferred to Pittsburgh to finish up his college career.


When O’Brien first took over the Texans job in 2014, he personally took trips to see prospects up close. During that draft process, O’Brien went to Pittsburgh to personally workout Savage. At that workout, O’Brien personally scripted over 100 passes for him at his pro day and, despite conditions being on the cold side, he impressed the 28 teams that were in attendance including O’Brien. The Texans met with Savage at the pro day and had a formal interview with him at the NFL Combine.


It was clear that the Texans had Savage on their draft board and when the 4th round arrived, the Texans selected him with the 135th selection.


The growth of Savage over three training camps has been clear and the intentions were always to have him as a developmental quarterback, to see what he can be when the time was right. The biggest jump for Savage was from year one to year two, especially when he took time out to use goggles with a camera to help him see the field from his point of view. He looked much more developed as a passer in 2015 compared to his rookie season. In 2016, he was clearly the most well-versed in the Texans offense and was the clear cut best quarterback in camp to start the season.

The issue was that by the Texans placing Savage on the injured reserve in 2015, the direction changed and forced the organization to look for the best option available.

On January 11th, shortly after the end of the Texans season, Savage made a proclamation on how he was going to handle the unknown quarterback situation of the Texans future after the failures of Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallett.

"They can draft 12 quarterbacks," he said in January of 2016 at the end of the season. "I am going to be ready to go. I am definitely excited about competing and that still falls under the category of controlling what I can control. I am not up there. I don’t make those decisions, so all I can do is be ready to compete."

Savage’s season was taken away from him in 2015 due to a shoulder injury he suffered against the Dallas Cowboys in the final game of the preseason. With two quarterbacks in front of him, the Texans opted to place Savage on the injured reserve and use his roster spot for another position group. That proved to be one of the clearest mistakes by the Texans during the O’Brien era.

"Every night, every night," said Savage on thinking about his season ending in 2015. "It was tough, but that is a really tough spot to be in as a coach when you have that awkward timing for an injury like that.”

Injuries have plagued Savage in his three seasons with the Texans. As a rookie, he injured his knee which ended his season in his first appearance as a quarterback. In year two, a shoulder injury in a meaningless fourth preseason game ended the 2015 campaign before the regular season even started and this season, he had a scare with an infection involving his elbow on the trip to Green Bay which required antibiotics and a trip to the hospital to correct.

With the injuries and setbacks behind him, patience came into play for Savage, something he struggled with in his college when his lack of patience made him look for a new school after Rutgers forced him to split time despite being a Freshman All-American. Savage himself said he should have been more patient with his college career and that issue set him in the position he is in now.

Brock Osweiler entered the picture and, as often happens with a calculated risk, the gamble has not materialized as most had hoped. The patience that Savage lacked as a young man paid off in a big way when he finally hit the field for the first time in 735 days to bring the Texans back in a 21-20 win over the Jacksonville Jaguars.

“He’s a very consistent person. He’s been the same guy as far as his personality and how he approaches his day-to-day workload since he arrived here," explained O’Brien of Savage. “He’s a hardworking guy. He’s done a lot to work in the weight room to change his body. He’s worked to get in better shape over the years.”

The work has been done and Savage has been the one constant in the quarterback room over the past three seasons. Quarterbacks have come and gone, he has seen multiple quarterbacks shuffled in and out of the roster. The learning experiences have been there for Savage and now it is his turn to step to the plate.

If there is one thing going for Tom Savage, he has been the only quarterback under O’Brien to be conditioned to think exactly like O’Brien from day one. Savage is a symbol of everything O’Brien wants with the Texans and he was the only hand-picked quarterback with a clean slate ready to mold as an NFL quarterback. Savage is O’Brien’s own product from the Texans way of coaching from day one; he is not like other quarterbacks who have been shaped by other coaching staffs. Savage is an O’Brien product and now the time has arrived to see what he has been coached to do.

"I'm going to win that job," said Savage in that same interview about how his season ended before it began at the end of 2015.

Savage has won the job like he said he would. Now it is up to him to prove that the answer for the Texans has been in house the entire time.

Hmm .. nice article and all that, but I find it very hard to understand how O'Brien had him 3rd string behind that stupid Fitz/Mallet competition last year, regardless of him getting hurt in that 4th preseason game.

 

[Hervoyel]

Hmm .. nice article and all that, but I find it very hard to understand how O'Brien had him 3rd string behind that stupid Fitz/Mallet competition last year, regardless of him getting hurt in that 4th preseason game.

I kind of felt like he was really #2 last year (before the injury in preseason) and that was because O'Brien never really settled on a #1 completely between Fitz/Mallet in 2014 and Hoyer/Mallet in 2015. He's always been the backup but O'Brien has usually had 1A and 1B (without a lot of distinction between the two) Very indecisive on O'Brien's part. He went out and got Fitz but was reluctant to hitch his wagon to him. Went out and got Mallet and never really seemed to buy into him either completely. Got Hoyer and then flipped back over to Mallet before a single game was in the books and so on. He just never seems comfortable with his QB situation in spite of the fact that these are the QB's he's brought in. Os made it 15 weeks of starts before being pulled and that was a miracle for a Bill O'Brien Texans QB.

I hope he doesn't get cold feet with Savage the first time he makes a mistake but history suggests he will. Watch him activate all three this Saturday.

 

[WolverineFan]

It doesn't help when guys can come out as juniors too. Not saying Savage did that just adding to what you already said about how they rush them these days. Now you have to hurry up and get them playing and they're even sometimes starting out a year younger than they used to.

You make a good point but to add onto it...not only are they being thrown out there at a younger age but they are also less prepared nowadays because, for the most part, college offenses aren't preparing them for the NFL.

It used to be a guy would play a couple years in a pro system in college and then sit the bench for a few years in the NFL before getting his shot. Nowadays guys are running spread offenses in college, jumping into the draft early, and then getting thrown into the fire as rookies.

Nobody wants to take the time to develop a QB anymore yet they love to complain about the lack of good QB play in the league. Talk about the irony.

 

[dalemurphy]

After re-watching the game, my hope is back.
I think I like Savage a lot, now.
He's a totally different QB than the one from 3 years ago.

I'd have to pour over the game film some more, but so far I like it quite much.
I don't want to jump for joy yet; however, I will say that I'm more impressed than watching it live.

At the very least, it looks like Savage had been putting in a lot of work to improve himself, and he's making good stride.

Agreed. His arm talent has always been impressive. However, he aleays seemed late on throws- wanting to see the player open instead of throwing him open. I noticed improvement in the preseason. Sunday, he made good decisions and threw the ball on time consistently, evem when moving to the second option. On two checkdowns to RBs. He as a little late, but still quick enough to complete the pass without incident. Now, let us see if he can take the punishment the NFL dishes out week to week.

 

[Seegara]

Savage's numbers were higher when pressured and blitzed. Fun stat, but an anomaly until proven otherwise.

Explainable. When you blitz you leave something open, and Savage was able to exploit the holes in the coverage. That's why I don't like excessive blitzing unless you're up against a QB who's helpless under pressure.

 

[Hervoyel]

You make a good point but to add onto it...not only are they being thrown out there at a younger age but they are also less prepared nowadays because, for the most part, college offenses aren't preparing them for the NFL.

It used to be a guy would play a couple years in a pro system in college and then sit the bench for a few years in the NFL before getting his shot. Nowadays guys are running spread offenses in college, jumping into the draft early, and then getting thrown into the fire as rookies.

Nobody wants to take the time to develop a QB anymore yet they love to complain about the lack of good QB play in the league. Talk about the irony.

Oh yeah. It's a regular dumpster fire of a system creating QB's for the NFL. I've never seen a sport in more dire need of a quality developmental league but the sport is ill-suited to that model.

 

[JB]

Oh yeah. It's a regular dumpster fire of a system creating QB's for the NFL. I've never seen a sport in more dire need of a quality developmental league but the sport is ill-suited to that model.

Yeah they do. They need to expand the draft so each team gets a practice squad of 10. The other 10 get sent to a development league for a minimum of a year.

 

[Marcus]

I hope he doesn't get cold feet with Savage the first time he makes a mistake but history suggests he will. Watch him activate all three this Saturday.

I'm not worried about that as much as I'm worried him going down with injury. Frankly, I'm a little surprised the injury-prone label hasn't been thrown around here yet, but I kinda feel like I'm in broken record territory here.

But let's not look too much inside the mouth of the Christmas gift horse. I was on my way out the door on Sunday after that 2nd interception. I actually had the truck started when my wife rushed out and opened the door and said, "you might want to get back in there! O'Brien just benched him and put Savage in."

I'm like, "He did wut?"

 

[JCTexan]

After re-watching the game, my hope is back.
I think I like Savage a lot, now.
He's a totally different QB than the one from 3 years ago.

I'd have to pour over the game film some more, but so far I like it quite much.
I don't want to jump for joy yet; however, I will say that I'm more impressed than watching it live.

At the very least, it looks like Savage had been putting in a lot of work to improve himself, and he's making good stride.

I watched the game for the 2nd time yesterday and I'm at least hopeful heading into Saturdays game. With Savage at QB the Texans were consistently moving down the field. The drives were stalling out because of mistakes that weren't on Savage. On the drive where we turned the ball over on downs, we ran the ball on 1st, 2nd & 3rd down. Savage needed better ball placement on the 4th down throw but the RB's couldn't punch it from the 2 yard-line on 2nd & 3rd down. The next drive (I believe) ended because Hopkins didn't know where the 1st down marker was. Nuk should have bull-dozed his way through the defender for the 1st. Instead he patty-caked it and was stopped short. I definitely thought he should have gotten it. We settled for a FG on another drive because of a penalty on 2nd down. Savage hit an underneath route for better a FG. With Nick Novak being a bit hurt we definitely needed the extra 8 yards for the FG. Savage made a couple mistakes but overall I came away impressed.

 

[Hervoyel]

I'm not worried about that as much as I'm worried him going down with injury. Frankly, I'm a little surprised the injury-prone label hasn't been thrown around here yet, but I kinda feel like I'm in broken record territory here.

But let's not look too much inside the mouth of the Christmas gift horse. I was on my way out the door on Sunday after that 2nd interception. I actually had the truck started when my wife rushed out and opened the door and said, "you might want to get back in there! O'Brien just benched him and put Savage in."

I'm like, "He did wut?"

I was busy doing stuff with my mom and wife and at one point I had to drive my mom's car down to her house and I came across the game on the radio. They were talking about Savage dropping back to pass (this was in the 3rd quarter) and I just assumed that Os finally went down hurt. I've been expecting it for weeks based on our history under O'Brien so when I got home later that day (didn't even care about the game) I assumed (again) that I'd be looking up information on how bad Os was hurt, whether Savage made it through the game intact, and how bad we lost.

Everything came up roses though. Hope that continues.

 

[Seegara]

I watched the game for the 2nd time yesterday and I'm at least hopeful heading into Saturdays game. With Savage at QB the Texans were consistently moving down the field. The drives were stalling out because of mistakes that weren't on Savage. On the drive where we turned the ball over on downs, we ran the ball on 1st, 2nd & 3rd down. Savage needed better ball placement on the 4th down throw but the RB's couldn't punch it from the 2 yard-line on 2nd & 3rd down. The next drive (I believe) ended because Hopkins didn't know where the 1st down marker was. Nuk should have bull-dozed his way through the defender for the 1st. Instead he patty-caked it and was stopped short. I definitely thought he should have gotten it. We settled for a FG on another drive because of a penalty on 2nd down. Savage hit an underneath route for better a FG. With Nick Novak being a bit hurt we definitely needed the extra 8 yards for the FG. Savage made a couple mistakes but overall I came away impressed.

Nuk should have run his pattern past the 1st down marker instead of hoping to run for the extra yardage. He consistently makes the mistake of running stop and hook patterns a yard short of the marker on 3rd down. He either doesn't know where he is on the field or doesn't know what a stupid thing it is.

 

[bigmck]

Weeden suited as the #2 when Savage had his arm infection. So you're wrong on that one. And Weeden is our savior crap is where you're wrong on point #2.

Do the inactive guys still get a full game check?

 

[Mr teX]

I kind of felt like he was really #2 last year (before the injury in preseason) and that was because O'Brien never really settled on a #1 completely between Fitz/Mallet in 2014 and Hoyer/Mallet in 2015. He's always been the backup but O'Brien has usually had 1A and 1B (without a lot of distinction between the two) Very indecisive on O'Brien's part. He went out and got Fitz but was reluctant to hitch his wagon to him. Went out and got Mallet and never really seemed to buy into him either completely. Got Hoyer and then flipped back over to Mallet before a single game was in the books and so on. He just never seems comfortable with his QB situation in spite of the fact that these are the QB's he's brought in. Os made it 15 weeks of starts before being pulled and that was a miracle for a Bill O'Brien Texans QB.

I hope he doesn't get cold feet with Savage the first time he makes a mistake but history suggests he will. Watch him activate all three this Saturday.

I think the Oz move is mostly a rick smith/Bob mcnair over-reaction to the KC blowout. I think the reason why Oz made it 15 games this year when it was so clear he needed to be benched earlier is b/c OB learned from pulling Hoyer too quickly last year and Fitz the year before; I know he admitted as much in a press conference last year talking about Hoyer. I also don't think OB ever wanted Mallet. I think bringing him in was purely a rick smith decision...which to me explains why he was brought in so late in the preseason the year he got here and why BoB was not at all tolerant of his shenanigans which ultimately led to him being shipped outta here mid-season.

I also don't think he ever planned to hitch his wagon to Fitz either..he just wanted a smart, veteran guy he trusted that could help him win as many games as he could in his 1st year....which is not at all that uncommon with 1st year coaches for a number of reasons.

I think he would've worked Savage in & been patient with him much earlier had he been healthy.

i think the most that you can garner from our qb situation under OB is that he's learning from mistakes & also that Rick Smith is forcing alot of moves at the position.

 

[Earl34]

I think the Oz move is mostly a rick smith/Bob mcnair over-reaction to the KC blowout. I think the reason why Oz made it 15 games this year when it was so clear he needed to be benched earlier is b/c OB learned from pulling Hoyer too quickly last year and Fitz the year before; I know he admitted as much in a press conference last year talking about Hoyer. I also don't think OB ever wanted Mallet. I think bringing him in was purely a rick smith decision...which to me explains why he was brought in so late in the preseason the year he got here and why BoB was not at all tolerant of his shenanigans which ultimately led to him being shipped outta here mid-season.

I also don't think he ever planned to hitch his wagon to Fitz either..he just wanted a smart, veteran guy he trusted that could help him win as many games as he could in his 1st year....which is not at all that uncommon with 1st year coaches for a number of reasons.

I think he would've worked Savage in & been patient with him much earlier had he been healthy.

i think the most that you can garner from our qb situation under OB is that he's learning from mistakes & also that Rick Smith is forcing alot of moves at the position.

More than likely, Osweiler was a McNair pick. I think you are giving O'Brien too much of a pass. Smith has made enough mistakes on his own, but with the exception of Osweiler, I don't think he would force a QB on O'Brien.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL
Cosell is respected by the entire NFL as one if not the top talent evaluator:


Aaron Wilson ‏@AaronWilson_NFL

Greg Cosell on Tom Savage: 'Measured, deliberate, polish and refinement to him. Can drive the ball. Will stand and deliver and take a shot'

Greg Cosell on Tom Savage: 'Lot to like. He throws it really well, Natural thrower, natural pocket passer. He looks like an NFL quarterback'

Greg Cosell on Tom Savage: 'He will actually throw the ball when he's supposed to. He was feeding DeAndre Hopkins. That's in his DNA'

 

[Double Barrel]

I think the Oz move is mostly a rick smith/Bob mcnair over-reaction to the KC blowout. I think the reason why Oz made it 15 games this year when it was so clear he needed to be benched earlier is b/c OB learned from pulling Hoyer too quickly last year and Fitz the year before; I know he admitted as much in a press conference last year talking about Hoyer. I also don't think OB ever wanted Mallet. I think bringing him in was purely a rick smith decision...which to me explains why he was brought in so late in the preseason the year he got here and why BoB was not at all tolerant of his shenanigans which ultimately led to him being shipped outta here mid-season.

I also don't think he ever planned to hitch his wagon to Fitz either..he just wanted a smart, veteran guy he trusted that could help him win as many games as he could in his 1st year....which is not at all that uncommon with 1st year coaches for a number of reasons.

I think he would've worked Savage in & been patient with him much earlier had he been healthy.

i think the most that you can garner from our qb situation under OB is that he's learning from mistakes & also that Rick Smith is forcing alot of moves at the position.

Interesting take, and one that I tend to agree with. TBH, it feels like every time O'Brien has talked about choosing his starting QB based on what is best for the team, he stresses it in a way that he's trying to send a message and establish his position.

I'm just not convinced that he's been able to treat Brock the way he treated his previous QBs because of the massive salary they are paying the guy. I think Brock had to be started for most of the season so the front office could see what he is and it is undeniable at this point after 14 games.

Brock was clearly on a short leash last game. That second INT was just a blatantly stupid throw. When you watch it again, you will clearly see that he was not going to hit his target. At that point, O'Brien didn't even look pissed. He looked like he was about to implement a plan that he had already thought about before the game even started. Give Brock enough rope to hang himself, and when he eventually does (it was a given based on the previous 13 games), then bring in the QB that O'Brien had picked when he arrived in Houston.

More than likely, Osweiler was a McNair pick. I think you are giving O'Brien too much of a pass. Smith has made enough mistakes on his own, but with the exception of Osweiler, I don't think he would force a QB on O'Brien.

Why not? McNair forced David Carr on Kubiak in his first year as HC, and then insisted Keenum play during his last season.

 

[TexansBull]

Interesting take, and one that I tend to agree with. TBH, it feels like every time O'Brien has talked about choosing his starting QB based on what is best for the team, he stresses it in a way that he's trying to send a message and establish his position.

I'm just not convinced that he's been able to treat Brock the way he treated his previous QBs because of the massive salary they are paying the guy. I think Brock had to be started for most of the season so the front office could see what he is and it is undeniable at this point after 14 games
.

I agree.

His quote "I decide who starts" and "we don't make decisions based on contract size." adds a bit of speculation of behind the scenes drama.

 

[Earl34]

Interesting take, and one that I tend to agree with. TBH, it feels like every time O'Brien has talked about choosing his starting QB based on what is best for the team, he stresses it in a way that he's trying to send a message and establish his position.

Why not? McNair forced David Carr on Kubiak in his first year as HC, and then insisted Keenum play during his last season.

You mentioned McNair forcing Carr on Kubiak, not Rick Smith. I still stand by my post that I don't think Smith would force anyone on O'Brien. Now, Smith giving O'Brien what the owner wants is another issue.

On David Carr, I thought during the HC interview, McNair asked Kubiak if he could make Carr a viable NFL QB. Kubiak knew what McNair wanted to hear and said yes. If McNair forced Carr on Kubiak, I don't think he would have signed off on releasing Carr.

Like normal people, I think Smith, Kubiak and even O'Brien tries to keep their boss happy. That objective sometimes leads them into making bad decisions, like keeping Carr around, signing Ed Reed or signing Osweiler. There are only 32 HC and GM jobs, we would probably do the same.

Maybe, a GM with a stronger personality than Rick Smith could do a better job influencing McNair, but at the end of the day, this mess fails at McNair's feet.

 

[thunderkyss]

Nuk should have run his pattern past the 1st down marker instead of hoping to run for the extra yardage. He consistently makes the mistake of running stop and hook patterns a yard short of the marker on 3rd down. He either doesn't know where he is on the field or doesn't know what a stupid thing it is.

OR you never played a down in your life.

 

[JCTexan]

Nuk should have run his pattern past the 1st down marker instead of hoping to run for the extra yardage. He consistently makes the mistake of running stop and hook patterns a yard short of the marker on 3rd down. He either doesn't know where he is on the field or doesn't know what a stupid thing it is.

I don't blame Hopkins for running a route that's a yard short if it's the route called. The play call there isn't on Hopkins. If he runs his pattern a yard further then Savage's throw will be short of Hopkins and is probably incomplete. The fault i have with Hopkins on the play is he hesitated and tried to juke the DB when he should have bull-dozed through the DB for the 1st down.

 

[JB]

I don't blame Hopkins for running a route that's a yard short if it's the route called. The play call there isn't on Hopkins. If he runs his pattern a yard further then Savage's throw will be short of Hopkins and is probably incomplete. The fault i have with Hopkins on the play is he hesitated and tried to juke the DB when he should have bull-dozed through the DB for the 1st down.

Yeah he was closer before he stepped back, if he would have just fallen forward he would have had it, but in the heat of the moment

 

[disaacks3]

While I understand the whole "we play the guys who practice great" mentality, at some point you have to play the folks who make big plays and win games.

Savage was far from perfect (took forever at the line, should have been picked, missed some audibles), but he certainly didn't appear as "forced" as Oz seems to be on 3rd downs. I think the weirdest one for Savage was when he had a super-clean pocket and literally just stood there and stopped moving his feet.

 

[JB]

While I understand the whole "we play the guys who practice great" mentality, at some point you have to play the folks who make big plays and win games.

Savage was far from perfect (took forever at the line, should have been picked, missed some audibles), but he certainly didn't appear as "forced" as Oz seems to be on 3rd downs. I think the weirdest one for Savage was when he had a super-clean pocket and literally just stood there and stopped moving his feet.

It looked like he was just playing the game

 

[Seegara]

OR you never played a down in your life.

That's not a possibility because I did play football. How about you, Podner?

 

[Seegara]

I don't blame Hopkins for running a route that's a yard short if it's the route called. The play call there isn't on Hopkins. If he runs his pattern a yard further then Savage's throw will be short of Hopkins and is probably incomplete. The fault i have with Hopkins on the play is he hesitated and tried to juke the DB when he should have bull-dozed through the DB for the 1st down.

The fault isn't with Hopkins only if it's a timing pattern. If not then the depth of his route isn't specified in the play call. The throw would come up short only if the QB is throwing to a spot, not to a receiver. But if they are spot passes they are very stupid calls. And if they are spot passes, doesn't it seem like too much coincidence that Hopkins should be involved so consistently?

 

[JB]

The fault isn't with Hopkins only if it's a timing pattern. If not then the depth of his route isn't specified in the play call. The throw would come up short only if the QB is throwing to a spot, not to a receiver. But if they are spot passes they are very stupid calls. And if they are spot passes, doesn't it seem like too much coincidence that Hopkins should be involved so consistently?

But it's not just Hopkins coming up short

 

[Seegara]

But it's not just Hopkins coming up short

No. Fido has often been guilty as well. Why hasn't the coach corrected this? It just takes a quick verbal explanation.

 

[thunderkyss]

That's not a possibility because I did play football. How about you, Podner?

Then you know not everything goes according to plan.

We're talking about Nuk. He knows the down & distance and I'm sure he knows where the line to gain is.

 

[JB]

No. Fido has often been guilty as well. Why hasn't the coach corrected this? It just takes a quick verbal explanation.

Then you know not everything goes according to plan.

We're talking about Nuk. He knows the down & distance and I'm sure he knows where the line to gain is.

It's others as well. The defense also knows where the line of gain is, and sometimes you take what they give and hope you can pick up that extra yard

 

[Seegara]

It's others as well. The defense also knows where the line of gain is, and sometimes you take what they give and hope you can pick up that extra yard

The D can't hit the receiver until he touches the ball. If he wants to penetrate that extra yard they have to give him the space. I'm not talking about 5 yards. A 5 yard pass might be easier to complete than a 10 yarder. But 1 extra yard? Just as easy.

 

[Speedy]

The D can't hit the receiver until he touches the ball. If he wants to penetrate that extra yard they have to give him the space. I'm not talking about 5 yards. A 5 yard pass might be easier to complete than a 10 yarder. But 1 extra yard? Just as easy.

Then why ever throw anything short of the sticks? It doesn't work like that. Just because the defender can't hit you before you touch the ball, doesn't mean you're going to be open before the ball gets there. Nuk goes another yard on the route, maybe the pass is broken up and you're complaining about Nuk not getting open or the QB throwing to a guy that's being blanketed.

 

[thunderkyss]

Another thing, on third down there's going to be a timing factor involved. Hop runs that extra yard before breaking off his route & the QB might be running for his life, he might be under a pile of fat men, or he already chunked it settling for the field goal.

& while those guys make it look easy, it's anything but. if we we're talking about Jalen Strong, Stephen Anderson, Mumph, or he'll even "I'm a f'kn WR now" Fiedorowicz we can talk about "I know better than that guy way more talented than me."

But I'm going to give Hopkins the benefit of the doubt that he did what he needed to do to get open & try to make a play.

 

[austins23]

He can throw the football, and that more than anything can spark a team ... when you complete some passes."

A subtle dig at Brock?

 

[False Start]

Pretty much this. ^^

It at least makes things interesting.

I'm definitely interested again!

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

After game press conferences OB just says ****.

When he does his coaches show with John Harris and Vandy I think he is more relaxed and gives more insight.

When OB said that he felt like he yanked Hoyer too soon and did him and the team a disservice I fully believe him. OB wasn't going to do that again. Almost to the point of flushing the season. But he was not going to flip flop like that again.


So settle in. This is the Savage show from here on out.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

The D can't hit the receiver until he touches the ball. If he wants to penetrate that extra yard they have to give him the space. I'm not talking about 5 yards. A 5 yard pass might be easier to complete than a 10 yarder. But 1 extra yard? Just as easy.

A couple of things....

It's the coaches job to call plays that have routes that go past the sticks most times. The play is the play and the route you run is the route. You start improvising and breaking your route later or sooner than you should and you throw the qb off.

And JB is right. Generally you'll have a few options on a play with routes at different levels. There were probably deeper routes on the play or past the marker but savage didn't like what he saw there or whatever. He decided to go to deandre for whatever reason. True the defense can't hit you until the ball gets there, but if they are sitting on a 5 yard curl.....and you run a 5 yard curl that can easily become a pick 6 because the defender is timing his break for that route.

Now if they are sitting on the 5 yard route because that's where the first is and you run a 4 yard route that's going to be an easy catch and now it's time to be an athlete for both the wr and defenders.

But bottom line is, the play is the play and that's how you've practiced it since training camp or for the amount of years you've been here. You can't change that up every time there's a third and whatever*****

****Unless the qb and receiver have some serious rapport/Chemistry. But if that's the case you can almost change routes on the fly play by play. I think it's safe to say the Texans don't have a qb/wr combo on that level at this point.


Also, that's not to say that Hopkins always runs his routes right. For all we know the routes may call for him to be deeper and he's cutting them off too short and the coaches get on his ass for it. But just based on what I know about football and Hopkins I'd doubt that.

 

[Marcus]

Interesting take, and one that I tend to agree with. TBH, it feels like every time O'Brien has talked about choosing his starting QB based on what is best for the team, he stresses it in a way that he's trying to send a message and establish his position.

When I listened to his press conference and heard the words "not based on how much they get paid", I knew right then he was ringing the "sending a message and establish my position" bell like a gong.

If Savage plays well on Saturday night, that'll be a very nice Christmas gift. I've been rooting for him a long time.

 

[ObsiWan]

The D can't hit the receiver until he touches the ball. If he wants to penetrate that extra yard they have to give him the space. I'm not talking about 5 yards. A 5 yard pass might be easier to complete than a 10 yarder. But 1 extra yard? Just as easy.

Like others said the DB also knows where the sticks are and are intent on stopping you from getting there. Running the pattern that extra yard means it takes an extra half second to get to the spot and the ball will be in the air an extra half second. A good DB can use that extra time to break on the ball - because he knows where you're trying to go - and break it up or pick it off. Or maybe that extra half second gets the QB sacked.

Sometimes you take what you know you can do successfully and do your damnest to make the DB miss. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

 

[bigmck]

It seems the receivers go short of the sticks much too often on 3rd and long. This may be by design or taking what they can get but it does not make a lot of sense to me.

 

[disaacks3]

Another thing, on third down there's going to be a timing factor involved. Hop runs that extra yard before breaking off his route & the QB might be running for his life, he might be under a pile of fat men, or he already chunked it settling for the field goal.

& while those guys make it look easy, it's anything but. if we we're talking about Jalen Strong, Stephen Anderson, Mumph, or he'll even "I'm a f'kn WR now" Fiedorowicz we can talk about "I know better than that guy way more talented than me."

But I'm going to give Hopkins the benefit of the doubt that he did what he needed to do to get open & try to make a play.

Or it might give that Safety time to come over, or the defensive alignment dictates you take option 2 on the route tree, or the QB audibles to a different route option, or we're running a 5WR set and there's nobody left to block for the QB, etc. We all get that part.

It just gets funny sometimes when every damn TE and WR ALL run 3-yd. routes on 3rd and 8, especially when you have a Will Fuller to stretch the field. Every NFL team does it at one time or another...it just seems the better ones do so less.

 

[thunderkyss]

It seems the receivers go short of the sticks much too often on 3rd and long. This may be by design or taking what they can get but it does not make a lot of sense to me.

If every receiver stopped short of the sticks I'd agree with you. But chances are three of the four receivers were beyond the line to gain. The QB decided to go with the guy short for whatever reason.

 

[thunderkyss]

Anyway... I found this article, didn't know if it's been posted in this Savage thread, so here ya go

On Sunday, the Texans finally got the kind of quarterbacking performance Bill O’Brien and Co. were expecting would be the norm after they inked Brock Osweiler to a four-year, $72 million deal back in March. Well, other than the fact it came from a guy named Tom Savage.

 

[Mr teX]

You mentioned McNair forcing Carr on Kubiak, not Rick Smith. I still stand by my post that I don't think Smith would force anyone on O'Brien. Now, Smith giving O'Brien what the owner wants is another issue.

On David Carr, I thought during the HC interview, McNair asked Kubiak if he could make Carr a viable NFL QB. Kubiak knew what McNair wanted to hear and said yes. If McNair forced Carr on Kubiak, I don't think he would have signed off on releasing Carr.

Like normal people, I think Smith, Kubiak and even O'Brien tries to keep their boss happy. That objective sometimes leads them into making bad decisions, like keeping Carr around, signing Ed Reed or signing Osweiler. There are only 32 HC and GM jobs, we would probably do the same.

Maybe, a GM with a stronger personality than Rick Smith could do a better job influencing McNair, but at the end of the day, this mess fails at McNair's feet.

OB might've signed off on bringing Oz in to compete for the starting gig at a moderately priced contract, But when 72 million got dropped for him to come in, im sure he felt like the decision for the most part got taken out of his hands..And i believe that's why you can't really hold OB accountable. He may have been forced to play ball.

 

[TexansBull]

If you're Tom Savage's agent - do you accept any contract that has less guaranteed money than BO's if Savages starts all 16 next year? I think Brick has established a starting point for Savages contract negotiations.

 

[ObsiWan]

NVR mind

 

[JB]

This really should have been six. Not Brock Osweiler Savage hit D-Hop right in the hands.
https://streamable.com/6k2yu

won't play

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

Or it might give that Safety time to come over, or the defensive alignment dictates you take option 2 on the route tree, or the QB audibles to a different route option, or we're running a 5WR set and there's nobody left to block for the QB, etc. We all get that part.

It just gets funny sometimes when every damn TE and WR ALL run 3-yd. routes on 3rd and 8, especially when you have a Will Fuller to stretch the field. Every NFL team does it at one time or another...it just seems the better ones do so less.

That's exactly why I'd put that on coaching.

Maybe even on the qb some. I doubt every route is being run short of the sticks, but for some reason that's the route the qbs see as being their best option for one reason or another. Online and protection could also be a factor.

It's just not good football.

But I see a lot of people point to the reveivers for running short of the sticks and it's not always the Receivers fault.

 

[thunderkyss]

a lot of other teams still convert when they throw short of the sticks. Like that tunnel screen to Will Fuller... happens all the time, just not for us.

 

[76Texan]

I am now cautiously optimistic about our QB situation.

I pulled out some college game film to compare and I see a new and improved Savage.

He always had that compact delivery.
His footwork was inconsistent, but he did have the fundamentals (unlike Tim Tebow).
When you watch the highlights, they are all there, so it's just a matter of repetitions.

His playfake is still inconsistent, and that's something he needs to keep working on - but that's not a deal breaker.

What he had improved the most is eye manipulation; I imagine the vision goggles had served him well.

I think it has helped train him to expand his vision, and therefore, his field awareness.

Because of that, it seems to help him to quicken the read progression as well.

I strongly think that young QBs can greatly benefit by sitting and learn to improve their areas of weakness.

He still missed a few "not so difficult" reads, but that can be helped with more time on the actual field.

The Jaguars didn't show many exotic looks.
The things that he had improved on so far, IMO, makes him most suitable for this offense at the moment.

But he has yet to face strong adversities, like an excess of drop balls, or non-calls like the one that Hopkins could have had a TD (if not for the constant illegal hand fight with the CB).

Or more exotic looks and relentless pressures from the better defenses while most of his targets are covered.

In another word, Savage is still not battle tested.

We don't know if he can remain calm and cool to a good degree.

I definitely love what I'm seeing; something I can't say about Osweiler.

Perhaps Osweiler can use an off-season (and even right now) to work on his weaknesses.
The guy does have a lot of skills.

 

[thunderkyss]

First, this is a decent article in favor of Tom Savage. I like Cosell, but he seems kinda biased to me. Still, decent read.


I wanted to talk about this picture. Particularly as it relates to "staring down the receiver"

There a couple of other photos in this series showing the play fake, then Tom coming out of the fake. He comes out of the fake & he's looking in the direction of Jalen Ramsey... not Wendall Williams, I think. A lot of times people say "so & so stares down his receivers" & they say it as if it's a bad thing. However, I used to see Peyton do it all the time, then watching Gruden break down some of Mannings throws I learned that Peyton isn't staring down his receiver, he's looking to see how the defender reacts.

In this photo, we see Ramsey staring down Savage. He's watching the play fake, then he keeps his eyes in the backfield. I think Savage is waiting for Wendall Williams to get even with him before he decides to throw the ball. If Ramsey begins to turn & run with Williams, I doubt he throws the ball to Wendall.

However, he sees that Ramsey is flatfooted with his hips pointed directly at Savage.

Jalen Ramsey must have been doing something similar all night because it "appears" he was targeted all night. However, the guy is so fluid & fast he's able to recover from most of his "mistakes." On this play in particular, he should not have been able to make a play on the ball even though it was under thrown, but the ball just grazes over his fingers he was fast & quick enough to get himself into position.

Anyway, that's my take on "staring down the receiver"