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Is Tom Savage A Long Term Option?

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gtexan02

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(I didn't see a Tom Savage discussion thread, so if there is one that should be 'officialized' please feel free to move)

I didn't watch the game live yesterday. I saw the boxscore throughout the game and went from utter despair (Osweiller with 2 picks and down big to Jacksonville at home with AFC-S on the line) to incredible hope (Savage with a great stat-line and a 1 point come from behind victory).

I was sure Savage would be the guy to right this ship. Then I watched the game and now I'm not so sure. Here's what worries me:

1. I saw Jax drop 2 INTs from Savage. 1 from a lineman (who should have had it), and 1 on the sideline. There was another throw where the DB lept and just missed getting his hand on the ball. A big issue with BO is his propensity to throw into traffic and turn the ball over. I saw Savage make some questionable reads and get lucky.

2. A lot of scoring drives enabled by penalties and good field position. Not taking away from Savage directly, but it seems like there were a lot of defensive penalties and good returns to facilitate some of those scores.

3. A lot of settling for FGs.

Now don't get me wrong - what I saw from Savage was light years ahead of Osweiller. I would be ecstatic to see BO sit the rest of the season. I'm just wondering whether we're getting ahead of ourselves anoiting Savage the savior. Jacksonville gives up on average 26 points a game.

What do others who know more about football/have seen him more than I have think?
 
Savage definitely looked more composed in the pocket and threw some nice passes.
I also liked the instant spark - the whole team seemed to lift and also the crowd really got into it.
To come from behind against some decent talent on Jags was also pleasing.
 
He hasn't seen many situations in his brief NFL career. If he gets the nod the rest of the way, plays well in the next 2 games and also in the playoffs we could be seeing a budding franchise QB. If he's not given a chance, we still won't know.

It's all in O'Brien's hands now. He's going to have to do one hell of a sell job to McNair for starting Savage the rest of the way. And if he does want and get Savage to start the rest of the way, he's going to "have to coach better."
 
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First off, things can change quickly with more film on Savage, but Savage came off the bench playing from behind and with less practice time with the starters than BO. I think the coming week should be very telling is Savage starts.

What amazes me was that the O-Line looked completely different with Savage in. It was very strange.
 
gwallaia said:
He's basically played one game. No one knows the answer if he is a long term solution.
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100% Agree. I have a couple thoughts:

On the 2 throws that could have been picked. One was a zone blitz and it looked like the DT was obstructed by the pass rush (i.e. Savage didn't see him - it happens) the second one looked like Savage and Williams weren't on the same page. The throw looked like Savage expected Williams to run an out and Williams kept going upfield. Most of BOs ints are either panic throws or terrible ball placement/timing

Anyone that has ever coached knows some players are terrific in practice yet mediocre in live game action and some are mediocre in practice but shine in game situations. Based on some of OB's comments, I'm wondering if Brock is a good practice player and we all know how he performs in games. I think the Savage might be the opposite. I'm curious to see what he can do with a full week of reps.

I'm also encouraged by Savage's QBR under pressure yesterday. He stood in against the rush and made some really good throws. That's hard to teach. As side note remember he was out for 2 weeks with a serious infection I think that makes what he did more impressive
 
I have been a Savage fan since he got here. But the problem with Savage is that he can't stay on the field. I know we all admire his courage to stand there in the pocket and take the hit. He's got poise, and can make the throws, but he has to play a lot more to develop his eyes in the back of his head.

If gets the start next game, and the games thereafter this season, I think we have a shot. But he's got to get the ball out quicker. He takes too many hits.
 
If you can't tell I like where this thread is going. We really don't know but the signs are positive and we have a couple of weeks left in the season to see what happens. Things can change and change quickly so he might come out next week, take a sack and break something. He might be "fragile" or "unlucky". He might not be and the injury in Indianapolis in 2014 might have just been a fluke. I mean, they broke Fitzpatrick's leg in the same game and he's not considered fragile. We. Don't. Know.

But it looks like we're going to find out. That's kind of cool.

I think he's clearly got a better understanding of the offense than Brock does. He throws a nice ball and he seems to have a better feel for the possible routes. Brock always seems like he locks into what one WR is doing and it almost looks at times like he's anticipating the decision the WR is going to make before the WR even gets that far. So many damn "miscommunications between the WR and QB" when Brock is out there. I know they're going to happen but when they happen as often as they do to Brock then somebody is doing more wrong than just reading the defense differently. Somebody isn't reading the defense at all and instead just anticipating what they want the WR to do.

Looking forward to the Bengals game. This is the most interested I've been since the first few weeks of the season.
 
Don't know if the camera's showed it, but when Savage came running in Hopkins was visibly excited about the decision. He was repeatedly hitting Griffin on the back of his shoulder pads in sort of a "let's go, it's showtime" gesture. I'm not too sure what the locker room dynamics are as far as QB relationships go, but like many others have stated the blocking seemed to get a lot better, receivers found new life, and our overall energy level seemed to be elevated when Savage came in. It will be interesting to see how Savage develops going forward, and I've learned to contain my excitement over a Houston QB, but man it sure was nice to see this late season spark to a team who seemed to be desperate and demoralized.
 
VTexan said:
if we didn't put him on IR last year we would have found this out already and maybe not have paid brock 36 million....

texans are such an infuriating organization sometimes.
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I think this goes back to a point in my post about his play in practice. This morning on 790 Lance mentioned talking with former Texans reporter T Ganguli. She mentioned that the Texans were not high on Savage and that's the reason they IRed him so quickly. He looked pretty good in pre season games last year so he must have done poorly in practice. As a coach it's got to be tough to have confidence in a guy that looks bad in practices. Hopefully he'll continue to play well in game situations. If he can be the man for us, his million dollar salary will help off set BOs
 
There's no question Savage has some raw skill. He's got the best arm on the team, he moves well in the pocket and can break away from the rush to keep the play moving. He really had a nice rhythm with his receivers on the quick passes. There was the nice one to DeAndre on 2nd and 20, and then another one to Ryan Griffin that got called back due to penalty.

But he showed something that Osweiler hasn't in his entire time here. He was consistently able to move the offense down the field and did it with a bunch of different play designs. He was hitting Hopkins, Fuller, that new guy on the deep ball, almost had a beautiful TD to Hopkins that was dropped, and threw the check down nice and accurately as well. I really enjoyed what I saw out of Savage.
 
Hervoyel said:
If you can't tell I like where this thread is going. We really don't know but the signs are positive and we have a couple of weeks left in the season to see what happens. Things can change and change quickly so he might come out next week, take a sack and break something. He might be "fragile" or "unlucky". He might not be and the injury in Indianapolis in 2014 might have just been a fluke. I mean, they broke Fitzpatrick's leg in the same game and he's not considered fragile. We. Don't. Know.

But it looks like we're going to find out. That's kind of cool.

I think he's clearly got a better understanding of the offense than Brock does. He throws a nice ball and he seems to have a better feel for the possible routes. Brock always seems like he locks into what one WR is doing and it almost looks at times like he's anticipating the decision the WR is going to make before the WR even gets that far. So many damn "miscommunications between the WR and QB" when Brock is out there. I know they're going to happen but when they happen as often as they do to Brock then somebody is doing more wrong than just reading the defense differently. Somebody isn't reading the defense at all and instead just anticipating what they want the WR to do.

Looking forward to the Bengals game. This is the most interested I've been since the first few weeks of the season.
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Same here. I was almost completely checked out after the Chargers game. Over the last 6 or 7 games, I've missed large chunks of games. I even missed part of the 3rd quarter yesterday because I saw the same bad play calling with Savage in. That goofy double reverse in the red zone tht went for -4 yards had me thinking, "different QB, same red zone incompetent play calling". But the players on offense, especially Savage were able to overcome the coaching.

I've been fairly patient with O'Brien but if he doesn't start Savage against Cincinnati and Brock trots out there throwing interceptions and fumbles I'm going to be on the fire O'Brien bandwagon.
 
The back up QB is always the best player on the team when the starter is doing bad, From coming off the bench mid game, he looked more than capable of running this team and offense. He throws a better pass than B.O., B.O. throws and Savage passes. Hopkins looked like a receiver after Savage came in. For the most part balls were on point thrown in stride. Is Savage the answer, no idea, from the sample size from B.O. I would say that Brock is not. Savage just looked comfortable in the offense and B.O. always looks frantic.
 
A lot of good posts and thoughts ITT.

I've been a ghost on TT because there is nothing to discuss.

I too, have been turning off the games or just keeping them on in the background. I wanted to see a change at QB after last season and I thought that BO would come here and be an average QB. He would struggle at times but when it's crunch time: he'd perform. Well...looks like I was wrong about that--very wrong. Brock doesn't appear to be the answer at QB. I'm disappointed he didn't work out. However, I can't fault the Texans completely for trying to make a drastic change at QB, even if he's the wrong guy. Once again, bad scouting/Rick Smith/Bob McNair is to blame for this misevaluation.

I pulled up what Savage was saying prior to Brock's signing:
Tom Savage said:
"I'm going to win that job," Savage said, "absolutely." The Texans will face pressure to draft a quarterback high, but that doesn't daunt Savage.

"They can draft 12 quarterbacks," he said. "I am going to be ready to go. I am definitely excited about competing and that still falls under the category of controlling what I can control. I am not up there. I don’t make those decisions, so all I can do is be ready to compete."
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Good to see that he made good on this promise, although the deck was stacked against him.

IMO since it's pretty obvious that Brock never evolved to a average/competent QB, we should go ahead and play Savage at the end of the season so we have an idea of what he can do. I don't think he can take the beating of a full season without getting injured BUT he only needs to win 1 or 2 games (both teams beatable) to get to the playoffs. I would also suggest resting Miller until the playoffs but that's pretty presumptuous considering the issues this team is facing.

We play Savage for the rest of the season, win-lose-or-draw, and then draft at QB regardless next year. We see what Savage can do, sit/trade/cut BO next year and move forward with Savage/New QB/Weeden.
 
VTexan said:
if we didn't put him on IR last year we would have found this out already and maybe not have paid brock 36 million....

texans are such an infuriating organization sometimes.
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Savage suffered at least a Grade II, and possibly a Grade III A-C shoulder separation of his throwing shoulder. As an "overhead" throwing athlete, this is a very iffy and difficult injury to come back from in the same season. He would have been carried on the active roster meanwhile taking up a much needed player slot with no real guarantees as to if he could return......or if he could return, in what kind of state would he have returned. I've not been a great fan of the Texans medical decisions, but I can't say that their decision here was entirely misguided.
 
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I have no idea if Savage is a long term solution.

But, he's certainly the solution for this season.

Brock is clearly a bad QB by any measure that you want to look at. His play and 2+ INT per game has made Fitzpatrick and Hoyer look like QBs we should have kept. That is in no way giving props to Hoyer or Fitz, but rather the reality that a stale, crusty hot dog at the Exxon station looks delicious if the alternative is eating a dog turd.

I was as excited as anyone about the front office signing Brock. I don't have a problem with the attempt to upgrade. However, its time to admit the mistake and move on.
 
Honestly I think you can forget about Savage starting the last two games .... They just have too much money invested in BO to bench him for the duration.


Maybe BoB shocks the hell outa me and runs Savage out there next week ....
 
ESPN today (12/19) has an Insider Article on every NFL Team that will have a new QB next year. Anyone that is an Insider Subscriber, could you post if they think Savage will be the starter in 2017? Thanks,
 
ESPN today (12/19) has an Insider Article on every NFL Team that will have a new QB next year. Anyone that is an Insider Subscriber, could you post if they think Savage will be the starter in 2017? Thanks,
 
Projected 2017 starter: Brock Osweiler

Osweiler was benched Sunday, but it's going to be tough for the Texans to move on after this season, as I explained here. The short version: He'd cost too much against the 2017 salary cap, and the earliest they'd likely move on is before the 2018 season, when releasing him wouldn't hurt their cap.

So I think the Texans stick with Osweiler for next season and have him compete with whoever is on the roster, which could include a high draft pick.
 
Here's the full rundown from that same article of the teams he expects to have changes at QB. Has some interesting predictions...

Buffalo Bills
Projected 2017 starter: Mike Glennon

I'm projecting the Bills to move on from Tyrod Taylor because I don't think they see him as an $18 million-a-year franchise quarterback. They could get out of his contract after the season for a small cap hit. Taylor is 14-13 as a starter in his career, and he hasn't gotten an endorsement from the front office or Rex Ryan, who might be out after the season. Taylor's completion percentage has dropped from 63.7 percent to 60.6, and his yards per attempt are down from 8.0 to 6.8.


If Buffalo moves on, it could turn to Glennon, the former third-round pick who has started 18 games for the Buccaneers and is a free agent after the season. Glennon will be one of the top signal-callers on a weak free-agent market. This could also be a potential landing spot for Colin Kaepernick, but that would likely be on a short-term deal. I think the Bills will draft a quarterback in the middle of the first round, but the top QB prospects don't have much starting experience and will need time to develop.

Chicago Bears
Projected 2017 starter: Tony Romo

The Bears will likely part ways with Jay Cutler, and I've said for more than a month that they need to use their second-round pick to draft a quarterback and try to groom him for the future. They could also make a call to New England for Jimmy Garoppolo, offering an Alex Smith type of deal -- a 2017 No. 2 and a 2018 No. 3 that could become a No. 2. If that doesn't work, the Bears should sign Tony Romo, who could be released by the Cowboys as a post-June 1 release, which would eat up only $10.7 million of their 2017 cap.

For this to work, John Fox has to stay as coach. Romo might prefer to stay as a backup in Dallas rather than going to a rebuilding team with some coordinator taking his first chance as a head coach. Fox could sell Romo on the idea that the Bears are one draft away from being decent on defense. Then, in the second round in April, the Bears could pick a quarterback of the future while having Romo as their starter for the present.

Cleveland Browns
Projected 2017 starter: Jimmy Garoppolo

Let the bidding begin. Some wonder whether coach Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots would keep Garoppolo to be the backup for the final year of his contract in 2017 and beyond to potentially be the future of the franchise. Please. Tom Brady wants to play five more years, and the Patriots could get something in a trade this offseason for Garoppolo, who played well during Brady's suspension earlier this season. Garoppolo would likely cost the Patriots a lot of money past 2017, and New England likely couldn't afford both him and Brady.

The Browns have two things going for them: They have extra draft picks -- including the Eagles' first-round pick, which could be in the top 10 -- and they have a good trading relationship with Belichick from the Jamie Collins trade earlier this season.

Mel Kiper and Todd McShay have said, this class isn't expected to have a QB worth a top-10 pick. So by trading for Garoppolo, who's only 25, Cleveland would add a talented signal-caller who already has NFL experience.

New York Jets
Projected 2017 starter: Jay Cutler

Ryan Fitzpatrick and Geno Smith will be free agents after the season, and they aren't likely to return, unless it's at a cut price as a backup. That leaves recent draft picks Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg, but I don't think either is likely to start for the Jets in 2017.

That means the Jets need a veteran signal-caller to protect themselves, and Cutler makes sense. New York could buy some time to develop a long-term answer, whether that's Petty, Hackenberg or a QB from the 2017 draft, while Cutler gets a another chance to prove himself.

San Francisco 49ers
Projected 2017 starter: Tyrod Taylor and Nick Foles

If Taylor leaves Buffalo, where could he go? One option is San Francisco, where Chip Kelly is expected to continue as the coach for a second season, even if the 49ers fire general manager Trent Baalke. Kelly likes Kaepernick, who likely will void his contract after the season, so there's a chance he could come back at the right price. But I think Taylor makes sense for Kelly and the 49ers as a quarterback with running ability whom Kelly can try to build his offense around.

Kelly could also bring in Foles, who will almost certainly be released by the Chiefs because he's owed $10.7 million. That's far too expensive for a backup. Foles would be solid insurance for the 49ers in case Taylor doesn't work out. Under Kelly in 2013, Foles had an incredible 27 touchdown passes and two interceptions with the Eagles.
 
Credit to John Clayton on the above posts, don't want to be sued this close to Christmas. And sorry about getting off topic guys.
 
Corrosion said:
Honestly I think you can forget about Savage starting the last two games .... They just have too much money invested in BO to bench him for the duration.


Maybe BoB shocks the hell outa me and runs Savage out there next week ....
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I think that this is the case myself, but I hope we are wrong. I hope that OB says **** management or whatever his beliefs were about Oz, and thinks about the rest of the team who is fighting hard. That is what this comes down to. There is no football sense to suggest at this point that Oz gives the team a better chance to win after how badly he has been and the small sample that Savage showed us he is capable of. Show the other guys that its about the team. Continuing to start Oz not only shows stubbornness to admit previous mistakes, but shows disrespect to the rest of the locker room that has to do their job and really want to do it well in order to make the playoffs. It can't be about one guy or one position. What he is paid is irrelevant when it comes down to it. You can't change the contract situation, but you don't have to throw good money after bad by still playing him. Accept the fact that he is hurting your cap, but try your best despite that with Savage. The rest of the team deserves to have the best guy out there.
 
Well, now that we know he's going to start against the Bengals...

And since we all really want to know how he plays next week in that game.....

Waiting on stuff is hard and the more you want it the longer it seems to take....

So yeah, for this week I'm going to go ahead and say Tom Savage is a long term option at QB.

At least until after the Bengals game. We'll have to reconvene following that game to see where we go from there.
 
Tom Salvage showed better composure in the pocket and better vision on the field. He can make all the throws and looked as accurate as oz (if not better.) He's been in this offense longer and should know it at least as well as oz. He has all the tools to be the long term answer. One can hope. I'd still invest in a qb in the draft.
 
Let him play some games, see if there's improvement in his play, consistency, how he adjusts to the league getting game film on him, etc, before signing him to a bajillion dollar guaranteed contract after just 2 1/2 quarters.
 
I hoped Savage would get the start this week, but knowing it was the Texans we are talking about it wouldn't have been an upset if they ran Brock out there with a short leash again. I also didn't expect BOB to announce who was starting this early in the week as secretive as he usually is with injuries I didn't expect the starting QB to be any different.
 
Texecutioner said:
There is no football sense to suggest at this point that Oz gives the team a better chance to win after how badly he has been and the small sample that Savage showed us he is capable of. Show the other guys that its about the team. Continuing to start Oz not only shows stubbornness to admit previous mistakes, but shows disrespect to the rest of the locker room that has to do their job and really want to do it well in order to make the playoffs. It can't be about one guy or one position. What he is paid is irrelevant when it comes down to it. You can't change the contract situation, but you don't have to throw good money after bad by still playing him. Accept the fact that he is hurting your cap, but try your best despite that with Savage. The rest of the team deserves to have the best guy out there.
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(emphasis mine)

This is the clearest and most convincing argument for moving on NOW that I've seen. Send it to the Front Office. And thank heavens we're starting TS this week.
 
I don't know if he is a long term option or not. He's barely played during his career and I'm not going to judge either way based off a game against a 2-win Jags team. I think he's earned a look and if he maintains competent play through the end of the season then he should go into next year as the starter just like Osweiler did this year.

I do think he is a case study on how patience is an asset with developing QB's though. It used to be that you would get a young QB and he would sit for 2-3 years. Nowadays the pressure from the media and fans forces teams to throw young QB's into the fire or risk their jobs because of the quick trigger that is attached to HC jobs now.

Savage was raw when he came out of college and it was unanimous among scouts that he needed time to develop. 3 years later and it was blatantly obvious how much more comfortable he was running the offense than Osweiler was. Remember how overwhelmed he looked as a rookie when forced into the Colts game because of injury? Amazing what some time can do for a young guy.
 
It's almost laughable. The best QB on the Texans is Brandon Weeden, who hasn't played a down this season. In fact, O'Brien hasn't even suited him up yet.

If the Texans are serious in advancing in the post season, they'll start Weeden. As for Savage, he couldn't even throw a TD pass against the 2nd worst team in the NFL, a team that quit in the 2nd half yesterday.
 
Thorsson said:
It's almost laughable. The best QB on the Texans is Brandon Weeden, who hasn't played a down this season. In fact, O'Brien hasn't even suited him up yet.

If the Texans are serious in advancing in the post season, they'll start Weeden. As for Savage, he couldn't even throw a TD pass against the 2nd worst team in the NFL, a team that quit in the 2nd half yesterday.
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The defense isnt really all that bad. The offense is their enigma, plus we all know you bleed Weeden Red :barman:
 
Thorsson said:
It's almost laughable. The best QB on the Texans is Brandon Weeden, who hasn't played a down this season. In fact, O'Brien hasn't even suited him up yet.

If the Texans are serious in advancing in the post season, they'll start Weeden. As for Savage, he couldn't even throw a TD pass against the 2nd worst team in the NFL, a team that quit in the 2nd half yesterday.
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Wrong.
 
Thorsson said:
It's almost laughable. The best QB on the Texans is Brandon Weeden, who hasn't played a down this season. In fact, O'Brien hasn't even suited him up yet.

If the Texans are serious in advancing in the post season, they'll start Weeden. As for Savage, he couldn't even throw a TD pass against the 2nd worst team in the NFL, a team that quit in the 2nd half yesterday.
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A team with the #4 passing defense (after last week), #5 scoring defense. And say what you want but no they didn't quit. You saying that shows how small you are with your Weeden obsession. You weren't here before he got here and you won't be here when he's gone. Thankfully
 
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