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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

Texecutioner said:
You really have to ask that? This is a really obtuse question. We had several threads with people laughing and poking fun at Elway and the Broncs for being butt hurt over it. Hell, all types of Texans fans were bragging about it and loved how it happened. Being a guy that passionately hates the Broncos, I enjoyed it myself at the time. Egg on my face now.

He lived in Elway's house at one point and led them to believe that he wanted to be there. He shocked them when he signed with the Texans and didn't give them any time to negotiate or match any offers. He just bolted. He was butt hurt all because they put Manning back in there and didn't care that it worked out for the team and they won a SB. He still was selfishly mad and butt hurt over it. They didn't do him wrong. They gave him a great opportunity last season, and gave him a nice contract offer to be their franchise guy. Had he communicated all of these things to them and been upfront then I wouldn't be saying this, but he didn't. He said a ton of stuff the minute he unexpectedly left, and left them scrambling to find a QB. He burnt them by not having the balls to talk man to man to Elway and really addressing his grievances and his concerns until he bolted. To say that he "mislead" them might not be accurate, but he sure as hell wasn't upfront straight up with them. Its a big reason why you heard their organization griping about his actions and how he went about it. That didn't just happen out of nowhere.
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ok. I didn't understand what you meant by burnt I guess. He didn't sue them or cost them a super bowl or anything. He just hurt their feelings.
 
TexansBull said:
72 million ways. Oh wait that's us...
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He hasn't burnt us. He has busted his ass to be successful here and been a total professional for all intents and purposes. I feel really bad for him for the fact that he has been so garbage. He has beeb a great teammate and tried his best to be a leader, but he just sucks as a QB in our system at least. Our coaches and him have just not been a god mix, and OZ has been awful but it hasn't been from a lack of hard work to do the best he can. I don't hate the guy. I like him a lot for his approach and everything he has tried to do, but at the end of the day he sucks on this team.
 
Texans expected to stick with Tom Savage at QB
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...exans-expected-to-stick-with-tom-savage-at-qb

The Houston Texans are expected to stick with Tom Savage.

NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reports that it would be a major surprise if anyone but Savage took over the starting QB duties, per a source informed of the situation.

Savage led the Texans to a 21-20 win over the hapless Jacksonville Jaguars on Sunday after coach Bill O'Brien benched Brock Osweiler following back-to-back drives that ended in interceptions. Houston trailed 13-0 when Savage entered the contest.

Savage finished 23-of-36 passing for 260 yards, zero touchdowns and zero interceptions. The backup led the Texans on five scoring drives to notch the win and most notably protected the football.

Whereas Osweiler proved reticent to stretch the field this season, Savage displayed a willingness to press deep and intermediate routes. Savage also got star receiver DeAndre Hopkins more involved in the offense. Nuk earned eight receptions for 87 yards with Savage in the game. The receiver seemed to gain a pep in his step after the quarterback change.

Not getting Hopkins involved has been one of Osweiler's major flaws this season. On Sunday, Osweiler was 0-2 when targeting Hopkins, including one interception. The Pro Bowl receiver had fewer than 75 receiving yards and two touchdowns in his previous 11 games with Brock under center.

Savage was drafted in the fourth round by O'Brien in 2014. The third-year pro's familiarity with the offense should be a benefit to the Texans as they attempt to clinch the AFC South for the second straight season.

Sticking with Savage wouldn't be a surprise. Osweiler kept the starting gig far longer than his play deemed him worthy. The big contract might have given Brock rope, but with the playoffs on the line, the Texans will do what is best for the offense by handing the reins to Savage.
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JB said:
ok. I didn't understand what you meant by burnt I guess. He didn't sue them or cost them a super bowl or anything. He just hurt their feelings.
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So failing to communicate hurt feelings and anger from the past season when they are offering you a fantastic deal where you are way over paid for anything you have done isn't being unprofessional to you? Acting like there is a strong chance that you want to come back, and then bolting out of nowhere without allowing you to match or negotiate and then talking a lot of negative stuff that you were to chicken **** to address before isn't something that would tick you off? I don't believe you at all if you want to sit here and say it wouldn't. He had a personal relationship with Elway who took him under his wing. Oz wasn't some guy that barely played there and hardly got to know the staff. If a Texans QB you wanted did that, I think you'd be ticked off big time. You liked it and didn't mind him doing it when he did, because he came to our team and screwed his old team. You thought it helped us so it was pleasing. Every time a high profile free agent leaves Houston even when they are upfront about the open market the fans here usually whine and moan like huge babies. I see it every time.

I don't know why you continue to stick up for Oz at this point. He's been trash here. I gave the guy a nice cushion of excuses for aquite a few games for various reasons, but he hasn't gotten it together.
 
thunderkyss said:
& this is one thing that gets me. Not just you Tex... but many people here & "everybody" on the radio. I watched the game twice & his placement was no better than Osweilers (& that's totally understandable after sitting out the past 2.5 seasons).

But that was not a dime dropped to Wendall Williams. That was underthrown. He was not hitting guys in stride more frequently than Brock, he was hitting them on their back shoulder, or hip (not back shoulder throws).

& while Savage led the Texans on 5 scoring drives..... Osweiler did the same thing just last week against the Colts (Jags have a better D... sure, not the point).

I agree, Savage looked better doing it. But they're different QBs. Brock is not going to scramble on the edges & make plays downfield. It's not in his game, never will be.

I was higher on Savage than most (not that I wanted to draft him, I wanted McCarron). I'm just saying, Savage came in played the way he did & it just confirmed to me that QB was only part of the problem.

Now's not the time to try to fix everything else if we've got a QB who can handle those other problems "better." But acting like Savage had an epic game (not you, Ted Three Rings) is delusional & clouded with Osweiler hate.

Cincinnati's defense is on par with Green Bay or San Diego. If Savage has a great game against them, then that's saying something imo.
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Pretty much every average starting QB in the league other than Bortles has had better ball placement than Oz. Savage put the ball where guys could make the catches they needed to make, and they weren't nearly as difficult. His first start and he threw for more yards than Oz has all season in 2.5 quarters.
 
Happy to see Tom get his fair chance


I will say I am impressed with how Brock handled himself yesterday at the game and after in the media. Go watch his interview after the game. That had to be very hard and he handled it well.

I also think BoB made a very tough choice. I think it was clearly the right choice and he needed to do it, but I am sure it was not easy. It makes our front office and owner look stupid for paying Brock so much money, but it was needed.
 
Texecutioner said:
So failing to communicate hurt feelings and anger from the past season when they are offering you a fantastic deal where you are way over paid for anything you have done isn't being unprofessional to you? Acting like there is a strong chance that you want to come back, and then bolting out of nowhere without allowing you to match or negotiate and then talking a lot of negative stuff that you were to chicken **** to address before isn't something that would tick you off? I don't believe you at all if you want to sit here and say it wouldn't. He had a personal relationship with Elway who took him under his wing. Oz wasn't some guy that barely played there and hardly got to know the staff. If a Texans QB you wanted did that, I think you'd be ticked off big time. You liked it and didn't mind him doing it when he did, because he came to our team and screwed his old team. You thought it helped us so it was pleasing. Every time a high profile free agent leaves Houston even when they are upfront about the open market the fans here usually whine and moan like huge babies. I see it every time.

I don't know why you continue to stick up for Oz at this point. He's been trash here. I gave the guy a nice cushion of excuses for aquite a few games for various reasons, but he hasn't gotten it together.
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I'm not sticking up for anyone, nor am I aware that he acted like he wanted to be back there for any reason. I'm not aware that he acted like anything but following the money. How is it not professional to take the money? Should there have been loyalty? Not sure that exists in pro sports anymore. Should he have called Elway and told him he was taking a better offer? Maybe... Should Elway have told him earlier in the offseason that he was wanted back? Probably. It's business and not personal, and it's a two way street
 
I hope our satisfaction for Savage isn't too low after the bar Osweiler set. Essentially make us blind to Savage's faults.

I still think they should address the QB position in the draft unless Savage does something crazy good like take us (on his performance and not riding other parts of the team like the defense) to the AFC championship game. He has to play crazy good and its too early to say he will. And Mark Sanchez took the Jets to the AFC Championship and look at their mess now. A flash in a pan.
 
JB said:
I'm not sticking up for anyone, nor am I aware that he acted like he wanted to be back there for any reason. I'm not aware that he acted like anything but following the money. How is it not professional to take the money? Should there have been loyalty? Not sure that exists in pro sports anymore. Should he have called Elway and told him he was taking a better offer? Maybe... Should Elway have told him earlier in the offseason that he was wanted back? Probably. It's business and not personal, and it's a two way street
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I see guys leave teams for free agency all the time, and they don't all leave bitching and shitting on their old organization. The Broncos just won a freaking SB by doing what he was so mad about and benching him for the "real starter" who happened to win an MVP for their team prior to that. Oz chose to take bitter feelings with him, and trashed the Broncos organization on his way out the door. You don't do that when you have personal relationships with people that let you live in their home. I never saw anything or understood any of Oz's grievances with Elway or Kubiak and company. Most players like Kubiak and their choice to put Manning back in there did result in a SB at the end of the day. It didn't exactly backfire. Looking at how horrible Oz has been this season, the Broncos offer they gave him was more than generous. He took it as a slap in the face any way, and crapped on them for it. Now that he has been a total bust for this organization and is being way outplayed by late rookie draft pick, he looks really foolish and the Broncos are getting the last laugh. Oz could have just signed with the TExans and said it was over the money and the financial part, but he chose to air out negative press about the Broncos. You sound dumb doing that after they won a SB.
 
amazing80 said:
Happy to see Tom get his fair chance


I will say I am impressed with how Brock handled himself yesterday at the game and after in the media. Go watch his interview after the game. That had to be very hard and he handled it well.

I also think BoB made a very tough choice. I think it was clearly the right choice and he needed to do it, but I am sure it was not easy. It makes our front office and owner look stupid for paying Brock so much money, but it was needed.
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Yeah, it sucks that he hasn't worked out here. Everything Brock has said and done here, he has been a total professional. He still is despite this big setback of his. I'll give him that.
 
Texecutioner said:
I see guys leave teams for free agency all the time, and they don't all leave bitching and shitting on their old organization.
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I've never seen anything about this. How and when did he do this? Are you being real here or just going overboard on what Elway may be thinking?
 
Texecutioner said:
Yeah, it sucks that he hasn't worked out here. Everything Brock has said and done here, he has been a total professional. He still is despite this big setback of his. I'll give him that.
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And yet he was a total unprofessional in Denver and in coming here?
 
Even though the Bengals game is now likely to be meaningless in terms of making or not making the playoffs, I'm actually looking forward to trying to watch it if at all possible. Christmas Even is a tough night for TV watching, but I'm going to try like hell!
 
Yeah, I'm thinking even if it doesn't really count it gives Savage a warm-up game for Titans next week, and frankly, he could use the reps!
 
Texecutioner said:
Yeah, it sucks that he hasn't worked out here. Everything Brock has said and done here, he has been a total professional. He still is despite this big setback of his. I'll give him that.
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I wanted it to work out for Brock because that means it would work out for my team. It's not like Brock is an ahold like Cutler or some other jerk. My issues with him were/are his lack of effectiveness at QB. He seems like a good man and a consummate pro but he wasn't getting the job done. I don't fault him for leaving DEN for whatever reason whether it was financial or personal or a combination of both. I only fault the decision makers with signing Brock because if this is the last we see of him they put this team in a bad situation salary cap wise for the next year at least.
 
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powda said:
The only snub i remember from oz was not going to the Whitehouse visit (or was it the ring ceremony?)

Elway and the denver media/fan base were the ones taking shots first.
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I wonder if he's regretting not getting that experience now considering that he will probably never see another NFL football field in his life
 
JB said:
We don't need to eat that crippling $25 mil cap hit. I'd rather him stay on the team and after you get a preseason out of him perhaps you can trade him for a slice of ham or something. Desperate teams and all that. Or he can be backup. But that hit + replacement slot cost is such too high
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No one is going to take on his salary, and the money is already lost. He is nothing to this team. He's worse than a backup. If we keep him, we pay him, and he uses up a slot on the team. If we cut him, we still pay him, but at least we have that slot for someone that might be actually useful.

I'm not concerned about the teams money, they have lots of it.
 
Thorn said:
No one is going to take on his salary, and the money is already lost. He is nothing to this team. He's worse than a backup. If we keep him, we pay him, and he uses up a slot on the team. If we cut him, we still pay him, but at least we have that slot for someone that might be actually useful.

I'm not concerned about the teams money, they have lots of it.
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If there wasn't a salary cap I would agree with you
 
JB said:
If there wasn't a salary cap I would agree with you
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Then clear this up for me, because maybe I don't understand. If he's on the team, does his salary count against the cap? What's the difference in the cap money if he is on the team, or if he is cut? If it's the same thing, then my point stands.
 
Thorn said:
Then clear this up for me, because maybe I don't understand. If he's on the team, does his salary count against the cap? What's the difference in the cap money if he is on the team, or if he is cut? If it's the same thing, then my point stands.
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I think there is an additional 6 million cap
hit if he's cut.
 
Thorn said:
Then clear this up for me, because maybe I don't understand. If he's on the team, does his salary count against the cap? What's the difference in the cap money if he is on the team, or if he is cut? If it's the same thing, then my point stands.
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His salary counts yes... and then you have to add the replacement cost. Someone has to fill that roster spot, and it would be like a wife... cheaper to keep them for the time being
 
Bane said:
I think there is an additional 6 million cap
hit if he's cut.
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If this is true, then you'd have to consider that. If it isn't, and the cap hit is them same, then my point stands. The money is spent anyway, let him go and get someone else to fill in the slot. Surely we can afford a league minimum player that might actually be used once in a while.

assweiler is useless in any capacity, even as a backup. I'd rather see Weeden or Savage starting, and one of them the backup.
 
Thorn said:
If this is true, then you'd have to consider that. If it isn't, and the cap hit is them same, then my point stands. The money is spent anyway, let him go and get someone else to fill in the slot. Surely we can afford a league minimum player that might actually be used once in a while.

assweiler is useless in any capacity, even as a backup. I'd rather see Weeden or Savage starting, and one of them the backup.
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I know there is definitely an additional cap hit if he's cut. The only thing I'm
not sure of is the number. I'm pretty sure it's 6 mil.
 
Bane said:
I know there is definitely an additional cap hit if he's cut. The only thing I'm
not sure of is the number. I'm pretty sure it's 6 mil.
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According to over the cap, we could save the dead money by cutting him post June 1st. He would be owed 19 M instead of 25 M
 
Hervoyel said:
I kind of like to think that Brock was Bob McNair and Rick Smith's doing and that Savage was O'Brien's slow-developing guy that he was hoping would suddenly come on and step up but injuries got in the way. One of the few ways I hang on to my Texans fan sanity is to absolve O'Brien of any blame where Brock is concerned.

I know it's unrealistic to believe that but it helps.
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It crossed my mind that O'Brien was opening up the playbook yesterday with Savage in order to show the front office what his guy is capable of doing.

Pure speculation, of course, but partly based on John McClain's take that Brock was a front office decision and reports that there have been many heated arguments behind closed doors between O'Brien and Brock.

JB said:
I've never seen anything about this. How and when did he do this? Are you being real here or just going overboard on what Elway may be thinking?
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I do not remember Brock saying anything negative about the Broncos or having any negative attitude about anything. Even with the Whitehouse visit decline, he said it was all about team and working on chemistry with his Texans teammates.

I don't have any problems with Brock the guy. But, as a pro QB, he's just awful. I'm not sure another off-season can fix his consistent inaccuracy. Dude is averaging 2+ INTs per game. That's just terrible.
 
amazing80 said:
According to over the cap, we could save the dead money by cutting him post June 1st. He would be owed 19 M instead of 25 M
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We owe him what we owe him. Pre June 1 or post June 1, the total amount stays the same. The difference is that you can push some of it to the following year for a post June 1 cut/trade.
 
chicagotexan2 said:
I wanted it to work out for Brock because that means it would work out for my team. It's not like Brock is an ahold like Cutler or some other jerk. My issues with him were/are his lack of effectiveness at QB. He seems like a good man and a consummate pro but he wasn't getting the job done. I don't fault him for leaving DEN for whatever reason whether it was financial or personal or a combination of both. I only fault the decision makers with signing Brock because if this is the last we see of him they put this team in a bad situation salary cap wise for the next year at least.
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The cap situation isn't that bad. Os was the best FA option on the market. Better to lose McNair's money than draft picks.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I guess I give the Texans an A for trying and an F for execution of the plan to find a QB .
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Yep. It's hard to find a QB though, so the failure rate is always going to be high. But I'd rather do what they did in going after Osweiler, than do what they did the previous 2 years bringing in Fitz and Hoyer. Of course I would have tried for Carr or Garoppolo, but the Texans didn't even give themselves a chance to fail there.

It's hard to find a QB so you should always be trying. Even when you get one, you keep trying. That's what started the Texans struggles at QB the last 4 or 5 years. They never addressed QB in the Matt Schaub era, other than a 5th rounder in '11 (Yates) and a 7th in '08 (Alex Brink). The Patriots have drafted 8 QBs since drafting Brady, 4 in the 3rd round or better since '08. Fortunate for them they haven't had to replace Brady yet, but that doesn't stop them from preparing for it. The Texans didn't do that when they had Schaub. Now here we are 3 years later, going to be 4 next year, and we're still looking for Schaub's replacement

For the 1st time since trading two 2s for Schaub the Texans FINALLY get in the game for a QB. Unfortunate for them, they missed. Like I said, it's hard. But you can't sit on the bench for 8 years not looking at QB, then expect to hit a HR when you finally do get around to it.

Making something out of Osweiler isn't looking good. And even if Savage plays lights out the rest of the season, however long it goes, it shouldn't stop the Texans from looking at QB in the next draft. And even if you never use the QBs you draft, they can be turned into more draft picks, so drafting a QB 3rd or better every couple, 3 years, is never a wasted pick.
 
Double Barrel said:
I don't have any problems with Brock the guy. But, as a pro QB, he's just awful. I'm not sure another off-season can fix his consistent inaccuracy. Dude is averaging 2+ INTs per game. That's just terrible.
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Agreed, but I have to wonder about his mental state. He got progressively worse. His confidence was shot and I believe his disagreements with OB and the playcalling led to his tentative play. He seemed to be thinking and forcing instead of playing and having fun.

I think he's a better QB than he showed here. Not greatly better, and turnover prone in any case. But better than a 13 pt a game offense qb
 
Thorn said:
If this is true, then you'd have to consider that. If it isn't, and the cap hit is them same, then my point stands. The money is spent anyway, let him go and get someone else to fill in the slot. Surely we can afford a league minimum player that might actually be used once in a while.

assweiler is useless in any capacity, even as a backup. I'd rather see Weeden or Savage starting, and one of them the backup.
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If you keep Oz on the squad at his salary it will be at worst as the #2 QB. If he would sign a new contract. I'd resign Weedon as #2. Keep Oz as #3? Maybe.
 
No chance oz comes back given the opportunity to leave. We've already seen once how he responded to benching. The fan applause upon his benching is something he will not forget. He'll be cut into 2 years and sign with an afc south or west team.
 
JB said:
And yet he was a total unprofessional in Denver and in coming here?
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I said nothing distinguishing the two together. I have no qualms about anything he has done here other than his suckage on the field. I only discussed how he chose to leave Denver in the middle of the night.
 
JB said:
Agreed, but I have to wonder about his mental state. He got progressively worse. His confidence was shot and I believe his disagreements with OB and the playcalling led to his tentative play. He seemed to be thinking and forcing instead of playing and having fun.

I think he's a better QB than he showed here. Not greatly better, and turnover prone in any case. But better than a 13 pt a game offense qb
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Sorry, but that is the only sample he has shown so that is what he is other than his small stint in Denver. OB has found ways to win with other garbage QB's like Keenum and Weeden, and might have some marginal success with Savage for all we know. I won't say that OB couldn't have coached OZ better. I agree that he could have, but I am sick to death of this coddling of Oz at this point. People calling him basically a rookie and nonsense like that at the beginning of the season and stuff like that is probably the types of sissy feelings Bob had. I could see it. Oz got over 3/4 of a full season so show exactly what he was, and he stunk it up badly. Bad coaching in a game or two doesn't take away the blame he deserves of reading the field poorly, inaccurate throws, and loads of INT's. He simply was flawed at finding the open receivers, and struggled to throw accurately when he did. The coaches didn't cause Oz to struggle in those areas in game time. He just didn't improve.
 
Sure he's flawed. And he's shown he can play better with other coaches, so that point means squat to me.

Yeah we were hoping for better but it didn't happen. But coddling? sissy feelings? Right
 
TexansBull said:
Someone told me that they worry this Savage Kool-Aid will taste like the Keenum and Mallet Kool-Aid. Lol.
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The major difference is that Bill O'Brien single-handily drafted Tom Savage. Even called him "as good" as any of the other quarterbacks in that draft class, I remember O'Brian saying he had Savage rated neck and neck with Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, Johnny Manziel, Jimmy Garoppolo and Teddy Bridgewater. So this is an O'Brien product and fourth-round pick from day one of his professional career.

Just a shame that Tom Savage couldn't stay healthy otherwise he may be a lot more advanced right about now. He's wasted the better part of 2.5 NFL seasons basically. Barely played as a rookie in 2014, missed all of 2015 and is just now starting in the final few weeks of 2016. And this was after he was unavailable to play the past few games with minor injuries otherwise his role as the Texans starting quarterback may have come sooner.

On the plus side, Tom Savage should be book smart with Bill O'Brien's offense. That's nearly three full seasons of being able to grasp the terminology and truly understand this offense. Now it's time to succeed and physically perform what he has learned.

Tom Savage has an advantage in that regard...
So in actuality he's the best man for the job.
 
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