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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

Offense actually playing with confidence (receiving corps, TE's, OL, backs... as well as QB) with Savage in. Really enjoying watching the competence, completions, and conversions with Savage under center. His Accuracy, his velocity and his demeanor all highly welcomed and appreciated... why hasn't he been playing again?

(Just a damn shame we are always plagued with injuries to key personnel on both sides of the ball... )


*edit: Make BO earn his 'starting QB job' back-- and not in practice. Keep playing Savage, back him up with BO or BW...
 
The time has finally come! i think we'd have lost if we kept Oz in the game. Oh well time to celebrate the benching (atleast for today)

LJyj4on.gif
 
Maybe the plan all along was to claw and scratch our way through the season with our 'starter', knowing he doesn't grasp this complex offense-- all the while, keeping Savage (who I believe, understands this offense and exploits it's potential as much as he can) as healthy and ready as possible for the postseason run... maybe, maybe not...

All I know is I saw a QB throw & make plays today with the offensive weapons available and put up some respectable numbers. Tom Savage is forward progress!
Side note: I'd like to see Savage's numbers today vs. how many games it took BO to get those same numbers.
 
DrumBeatsLouder said:
Maybe the plan all along was to claw and scratch our way through the season with our 'starter', knowing he doesn't grasp this complex offense-- all the while, keeping Savage (who I believe, understands this offense and exploits it's potential as much as he can) as healthy and ready as possible for the postseason run... maybe, maybe not...

All I know is I saw a QB throw & make plays today with the offensive weapons available and put up some respectable numbers. Tom Savage is forward progress!
Side note: I'd like to see Savage's numbers today vs. how many games it took BO to get those same numbers.
Click to expand...

You see?

Obrien is a genius!!!
 
Color me impressed with Savage today ... he didn't really light it up but he didn't make any mistakes and actually put the ball where receivers could catch the damn thing.


Don't think he's the long term answer .... and neither is Brock but I'd much prefer that OB plays Savage the last two weeks and they cut ties with Brock and the $72m mistake.
They need to look under every rock for the long term answer this offseason .....(Maybe Savage proves me wrong).


Who's your QB .... Version 3.0 coming soon.
 
4x4tx said:
Savage to me looks like he had potential..he has a strong arm and quick release...Brock has to wind up and with his side arm schaub like push the ball motion it's easy for defenders to break on his ball..the dude is just a taller schaub


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Called it except Brock is much worse than schaub


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Here's every pass by Tom Savage today. The embedded video won't play, so click the link to watch it on Youtube.


As I mentioned in the gameday thread, Savage only practiced with the team since Wednesday after missing two weeks.

His success today is both reassuring and troubling. He proved to be the starting caliber QB that I suspected (more on that below), but O'Brien and the FO apparently preferred Osweiler's Denver tape to live evaluation of Savage. That knocks O'Brien's credibility for evaluating talent even lower than it was after the Hoyer/Mallet fiasco and the missed opportunities in the draft.

The reason Savage has starting potential is that he has always demonstrated rare arm talent in college and preseason. Most importantly, the quick release. It's such a common trait of successful QB's that you have to wonder why it didn't distinguish him from Osweiler from the beginning. Additionally, his accuracy under pressure, quick reads, velocity, and touch were always qualifiers for earning the starting job.

So the next test is to determine if he can fine tune the little things. Chemistry with receivers, looking off coverage, and timing. Judging by his improvement since he was drafted, the odds are realistic.
 
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Also, note the throw at 2:45 in the video above. I've never seen Osweiler demonstrate that kind of timing. Osweiler's worst flaw has been an inability to time crossing routes, always throwing behind the receiver.

And this from Rotoworld:

Advice: We didn’t expect to be writing a Tom Savage blurb today, but perhaps we should have. Brock Osweiler has been unimaginably bad this year and really, it’s a miracle he made it this deep into the season without getting benched. Savage, who took over after Osweiler threw consecutive picks in the second quarter, proved to be a noticeable upgrade for the passing game. He had trouble finishing drives at first, but eventually marched the Texans downfield for a game-winning touchdown late in the fourth quarter. Savage actually made DeAndre Hopkins, who has spent the year in hibernation, a relevant fantasy receiver again with eight catches for 87 yards. Savage made his fair share of lousy throws but played with more confidence than we’ve seen from Osweiler at any point this season. We would tentatively expect Savage to get the start next week in a must-win game against the Bengals.
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Here are Hopkins' numbers for the season.

Date - Yards - TD's:
Sep 11 Chi - 54 - 1
2 Sep 18 KC - 113 - 1
3 Sep 22 @NE - 56 - 0
4 Oct 2 Ten - 4 - 0
5 Oct 9 @Min - 56 - 1
6 Oct 16 Ind - 71 - 0
7 Oct 24 @Den - 36 - 0
8 Oct 30 Det - 44 - 0
9 BYE - - 0.00 - - - - -
10 Nov 13 @Jax - 48 - 0
11 Nov 21 @Oak - 58 - 0
12 Nov 27 SD - 70 - 0
13 Dec 4 @GB - 58 - 1
14 Dec 11 @Ind - 33 - 0
15 Dec 18 Jax - 87 - 0

In today's game, he got no yards from Osweiler. That means that in 2.5 quarters with Savage, he produced the second most yards of his 15 game season.
 
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Brisco_County said:
Here's every pass by Tom Savage today. The embedded video won't play, so click the link to watch it on Youtube.


As I mentioned in the gameday thread, Savage only practiced with the team since Wednesday after missing two weeks.

His success today is both reassuring and troubling. He proved to be the starting caliber QB that I suspected (more on that below), but O'Brien and the FO apparently preferred Osweiler's Denver tape to live evaluation of Savage. That knocks O'Brien's credibility for evaluating talent even lower than it was after the Hoyer/Mallet fiasco and the missed opportunities in the draft.

The reason Savage has starting potential is that he has always demonstrated rare arm talent in college and preseason. Most importantly, the quick release. It's such a common trait of successful QB's that you have to wonder why it didn't distinguish him from Osweiler from the beginning. Additionally, his accuracy under pressure, quick reads, velocity, and touch were always qualifiers for earning the starting job.

So the next test is to determine if he can fine tune the little things. Chemistry with receivers, looking off coverage, and timing. Judging by his improvement since he was drafted, the odds are realistic.
Click to expand...

Go back few years to get the full context of deciding Brock over Savage. Savage gets an opportunity his rookie year in that Indy game, showed some promise but gets a season ending injury. Queue the following year when they bring in Hoyer. Again, Savage shows promise in pre-season but suffers a season ending injury.

They didn't sign Brock because they didn't think Savage could be the guy. They just really didn't know what they had in Savage at the end of Year 2 with 1/2 game of live action under his belt and two stints on IR. He looks good in pre-season again this year, but they have committed to Brock at this point. And like every other team in the NFL with a high draft pick or big FA signing, the Texans were going to commit to Brock until they simply had no choice to do otherwise.

I just don't think at that point in time that Brock was signed that they were on equal footing from an evaluation perspective. The last time they saw Savage throw a ball was in a game that didn't count, and they just saw Brock go 5-2 and help the Broncos hoist a Lombardi.

Going after Brock in FA instead of going with Savage, and letting Brock struggle all season to see if it was going to click with him at some point, I don't blame the FO/HC for these decisions. It is part of football. What is more important to me now is what are they going to do going forward. Is a bad OLine and OC enough to warrant getting a second year for Brock? Is Savage *really The Guy after a win against one of the worst teams in the league, or is he getting the benefit of the Backup QB Effect like Mallett and Weeden did in the last few years? These last two weeks of the season are going to be interesting times, both on the field and on this message board.

For the record, I think Savage both looked and played the part better than Osweiler, I am simply trying to provide the FO/HC perspective, not the fan perspective.

For the record again, holy crap Savage throws a beautiful deep ball...
 
sandman said:
Go back few years to get the full context of deciding Brock over Savage. Savage gets an opportunity his rookie year in that Indy game, showed some promise but gets a season ending injury. Queue the following year when they bring in Hoyer. Again, Savage shows promise in pre-season but suffers a season ending injury.

They didn't sign Brock because they didn't think Savage could be the guy. They just really didn't know what they had in Savage at the end of Year 2 with 1/2 game of live action under his belt and two stints on IR. He looks good in pre-season again this year, but they have committed to Brock at this point. And like every other team in the NFL with a high draft pick or big FA signing, the Texans were going to commit to Brock until they simply had no choice to do otherwise.

I just don't think at that point in time that Brock was signed that they were on equal footing from an evaluation perspective. The last time they saw Savage throw a ball was in a game that didn't count, and they just saw Brock go 5-2 and help the Broncos hoist a Lombardi.

Going after Brock in FA instead of going with Savage, and letting Brock struggle all season to see if it was going to click with him at some point, I don't blame the FO/HC for these decisions. It is part of football. What is more important to me now is what are they going to do going forward. Is a bad OLine and OC enough to warrant getting a second year for Brock? Is Savage *really The Guy after a win against one of the worst teams in the league, or is he getting the benefit of the Backup QB Effect like Mallett and Weeden did in the last few years? These last two weeks of the season are going to be interesting times, both on the field and on this message board.

For the record, I think Savage both looked and played the part better than Osweiler, I am simply trying to provide the FO/HC perspective, not the fan perspective.

For the record again, holy crap Savage throws a beautiful deep ball...
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:goodpost:
Thank you.
The bolded offers a reasonable answer to my question as to why pay Osweiler as opposed to not giving Savage his shot this year. They had a decent-to-good QB on the roster in Savage but he kept getting hurt. So they didn't feel like they could rely on Savage making a full season (which still remains to be seen) and decided to roll the dice on, what appeared to be, the best F/A option in Osweiler.
I can kinda buy that.
 
I kind of like to think that Brock was Bob McNair and Rick Smith's doing and that Savage was O'Brien's slow-developing guy that he was hoping would suddenly come on and step up but injuries got in the way. One of the few ways I hang on to my Texans fan sanity is to absolve O'Brien of any blame where Brock is concerned.

I know it's unrealistic to believe that but it helps.
 
Hervoyel said:
I kind of like to think that Brock was Bob McNair and Rick Smith's doing and that Savage was O'Brien's slow-developing guy that he was hoping would suddenly come on and step up but injuries got in the way. One of the few ways I hang on to my Texans fan sanity is to absolve O'Brien of any blame where Brock is concerned.

I know it's unrealistic to believe that but it helps.
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I like to think the FO/HC didn't put all of their eggs in one basket. Similar to how Seattle signed Flynn and drafted Wilson.
 
Hervoyel said:
I kind of like to think that Brock was Bob McNair and Rick Smith's doing and that Savage was O'Brien's slow-developing guy that he was hoping would suddenly come on and step up but injuries got in the way. One of the few ways I hang on to my Texans fan sanity is to absolve O'Brien of any blame where Brock is concerned.

I know it's unrealistic to believe that but it helps.
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I think that OB was asked if he could coach Os he said yes. I'm sure he was asked about Savage, but couldn't bet his job on him. Savage had been injured too much too soon to be confidant in him
 
At this point, Savage or Weeden is fine with me. Just no more assweiler. And, for the billionth time, we'll try again at a QB during the offseason. If the Texans announce plans to somehow rehabilitate assweiler, I'll need more than just a little houch to help me past that. They need to just dump assweiler and suck up the loss in the offseason.
 
Thorn said:
At this point, Savage or Weeden is fine with me. Just no more assweiler. And, for the billionth time, we'll try again at a QB during the offseason. If the Texans announce plans to somehow rehabilitate assweiler, I'll need more than just a little houch to help me past that. They need to just dump assweiler and suck up the loss in the offseason.
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Don't you usually toke.. umm mean take more than just a little houch anyways? Lol
 
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Thorn said:
At this point, Savage or Weeden is fine with me. Just no more assweiler. And, for the billionth time, we'll try again at a QB during the offseason. If the Texans announce plans to somehow rehabilitate assweiler, I'll need more than just a little houch to help me past that. They need to just dump assweiler and suck up the loss in the offseason.
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We don't need to eat that crippling $25 mil cap hit. I'd rather him stay on the team and after you get a preseason out of him perhaps you can trade him for a slice of ham or something. Desperate teams and all that. Or he can be backup. But that hit + replacement slot cost is such too high
 
Nobody in their right mind is going to trade a wooden nickle for Brock Osweiler. He's going to "compete" for the starting job in 2017 against Savage (assuming Savage finishes out this year and plays well) and then get kicked to the curb or traded for an 9th round pick and a gumball before the 2018 season.
 
Hervoyel said:
Nobody in their right mind is going to trade a wooden nickle for Brock Osweiler. He's going to "compete" for the starting job in 2017 against Savage (assuming Savage finishes out this year and plays well) and then get kicked to the curb or traded for an 9th round pick and a gumball before the 2018 season.
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I guess I give the Texans an A for trying and an F for execution of the plan to find a QB .
 
Hervoyel said:
Nobody in their right mind is going to trade a wooden nickle for Brock Osweiler. He's going to "compete" for the starting job in 2017 against Savage (assuming Savage finishes out this year and plays well) and then get kicked to the curb or traded for an 9th round pick and a gumball before the 2018 season.
Click to expand...

We got a draft pick for the history making and record setting pick 6 machine. And then there's Cleveland...
 
Hervoyel said:
Nobody in their right mind is going to trade a wooden nickle for Brock Osweiler. He's going to "compete" for the starting job in 2017 against Savage (assuming Savage finishes out this year and plays well) and then get kicked to the curb or traded for an 9th round pick and a gumball before the 2018 season.
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Gary Kubiak is known for taking ex-Texans and you know Denver wanted Osweiler as they made a sporty offer to him also.
They may be interested if they could get him for a fifth or so.
When Siemian was performing well, they probably couldn't care less, but now, they know he did okay in their system.
 
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Texansphan said:
Gary Kubiak is known for taking ex-Texans and you know Denver wanted Osweiler as they made a sporty offer to him also.
They may be interested if they could get him for a fifth or so.
When Siemian was performing well, they could probably couldn't care less, but now, they know he did okay in their system.
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I think their next guy up is the dude they drafted from Memphis. Paxton Lynch will start at QB for Denver long before they consider bringing Osweiler back.
 
stingray said:
Is it too early to order a Savage jersey for a christmas jersey?
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It's never too early to get another Texans jersey. Just head on over to AliExpress and lay your $23-$30 down and go with it. One of those guys is even offering it in Blue "Color Rush" for your premature fan enjoyment. See that Here while it lasts


As a matter of fact I just bought one. What the hell I'm in.
 
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JB said:
We don't need to eat that crippling $25 mil cap hit. I'd rather him stay on the team and after you get a preseason out of him perhaps you can trade him for a slice of ham or something. Desperate teams and all that. Or he can be backup. But that hit + replacement slot cost is such too high
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I think the biggest difference we saw between the two was that Savage was obviously more comfortable with the offense. After another season, who knows, Brock may be ready to play at a high level.

IMO, if Savage earns the job the rest of this season & in the playoffs, then Brock will be the most expensive back up in the league. If something were to happen to Savage in 2017 (think Tonya Harding), then Brock gets a final shot to prove he's a starting QB in this league.

If Savage gets through 2017 as the starter & Brock doesn't get a chance to play... oh well, buh-bye, C-ya & we draft a guy to either push Tom or hold the clip board.
 
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Texansphan said:
Gary Kubiak is known for taking ex-Texans and you know Denver wanted Osweiler as they made a sporty offer to him also.
They may be interested if they could get him for a fifth or so.
When Siemian was performing well, they could probably couldn't care less, but now, they know he did okay in their system.
Click to expand...

Denver won't ever touch Oz. They have horribly bad blood now after Oz burnt them, and they still got the last laugh. Elway has one of the biggest egos of anyone that ever existed in the sport, and he'd never do business with Oz ever again. He took it really personally, and I don't blame him. To some degree Oz really screwed them considering the fact that he never really voiced how displeased he was with management there. He just took off in the middle of the night, and then had some mean things to say about the organization. He left Denver in panic mode to find a QB and they didn't expect to be in a situation like that. They wouldn't ever want to work with him after that.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I think the biggest difference we saw between the two was that Savage was obviously more comfortable with the offense. After another season, who knows, Brock may be ready to play at a high level.

IMO, if Savage earns the job the rest of this season & in the playoffs, then Brock will be the most expensive back up in the league. If something were to happen to Savage in 2017 (think Tonya Harding), then Brock gets a final shot to prove he's a starting QB in this league.

If Savage gets through 2017 as the starter & Brock doesn't get a chance to play... oh well, buh-bye, C-ya & we draft a guy to either push Tom or hold the clip board.
Click to expand...


I thought Savage went through his reads a lot better and simply made better and more precise throws. I was never huge on Savage when we drafted him at any point, but one thing I loved about him was his ice quick release and his big arm if he needed to throw down the field. He doens't have a lot of accuracy on the long ball, but he does have the arm strength. His release is really nice though, and his ball placement was ten times better than Oz's has been all season. So strange at how accurate Oz looked in pre season and how inaccurate he has been in the regular season as a passer.
 
Texecutioner said:
Denver won't ever touch Oz. They have horribly bad blood now after Oz burnt them, and they still got the last laugh. Elway has one of the biggest egos of anyone that ever existed in the sport, and he'd never do business with Oz ever again. He took it really personally, and I don't blame him. To some degree Oz really screwed them considering the fact that he never really voiced how displeased he was with management there.
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How did Osweiler burn them?
 
Hervoyel said:
I think their next guy up is the dude they drafted from Memphis. Paxton Lynch will start at QB for Denver long before they consider bringing Osweiler back.
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Good point -'they likely won't give up on him until they have to and by that time BO will be somewhere else.
 
JB said:
How did Osweiler burn them?
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You really have to ask that? This is a really obtuse question. We had several threads with people laughing and poking fun at Elway and the Broncs for being butt hurt over it. Hell, all types of Texans fans were bragging about it and loved how it happened. Being a guy that passionately hates the Broncos, I enjoyed it myself at the time. Egg on my face now.

He lived in Elway's house at one point and led them to believe that he wanted to be there. He shocked them when he signed with the Texans and didn't give them any time to negotiate or match any offers. He just bolted. He was butt hurt all because they put Manning back in there and didn't care that it worked out for the team and they won a SB. He still was selfishly mad and butt hurt over it. They didn't do him wrong. They gave him a great opportunity last season, and gave him a nice contract offer to be their franchise guy. Had he communicated all of these things to them and been upfront then I wouldn't be saying this, but he didn't. He said a ton of stuff the minute he unexpectedly left, and left them scrambling to find a QB. He burnt them by not having the balls to talk man to man to Elway and really addressing his grievances and his concerns until he bolted. To say that he "mislead" them might not be accurate, but he sure as hell wasn't upfront straight up with them. Its a big reason why you heard their organization griping about his actions and how he went about it. That didn't just happen out of nowhere.
 
Texecutioner said:
...his ball placement was ten times better than Oz's has been all season.
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& this is one thing that gets me. Not just you Tex... but many people here & "everybody" on the radio. I watched the game twice & his placement was no better than Osweilers (& that's totally understandable after sitting out the past 2.5 seasons).

But that was not a dime dropped to Wendall Williams. That was underthrown. He was not hitting guys in stride more frequently than Brock, he was hitting them on their back shoulder, or hip (not back shoulder throws).

& while Savage led the Texans on 5 scoring drives..... Osweiler did the same thing just last week against the Colts (Jags have a better D... sure, not the point).

I agree, Savage looked better doing it. But they're different QBs. Brock is not going to scramble on the edges & make plays downfield. It's not in his game, never will be.

I was higher on Savage than most (not that I wanted to draft him, I wanted McCarron). I'm just saying, Savage came in played the way he did & it just confirmed to me that QB was only part of the problem.

Now's not the time to try to fix everything else if we've got a QB who can handle those other problems "better." But acting like Savage had an epic game (not you, Ted Three Rings) is delusional & clouded with Osweiler hate.

Cincinnati's defense is on par with Green Bay or San Diego. If Savage has a great game against them, then that's saying something imo.
 
TexansBull said:
72 million ways. Oh wait that's us...
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He hasn't burnt us. He has busted his ass to be successful here and been a total professional for all intents and purposes. I feel really bad for him for the fact that he has been so garbage. He has beeb a great teammate and tried his best to be a leader, but he just sucks as a QB in our system at least. Our coaches and him have just not been a god mix, and OZ has been awful but it hasn't been from a lack of hard work to do the best he can. I don't hate the guy. I like him a lot for his approach and everything he has tried to do, but at the end of the day he sucks on this team.
 
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